water softener & whole house filter?

15 years ago

Hello,

My new house came with a Lifesource whole house water filter. It is not a reverse osmosis system but rather a water purifier.

My city water is hard at 15. I am finding that I am getting hard water staining in the stainless steel tub of my front loading washing machine. I also have a black granite countetop in the kitchen and any water drops stain it.

I would like to keep my whole house filter and add a water softener. Does anyone know if that would worK? I don't want a R/O under my sink as I like the purified water everywhere in my house.

Any suggestions....

Ann

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Comments (7)

andy_c
15 years ago
Here is the site of the system that you presently have.

http://www.lifesourcewater.com/about-lifesource/

For a point of reference, you used the words 'purifier' and 'purfied'. Let's take a look at that:

"PURE" used in water treatment is a marketing tool not a technical description. It is used to catch the eyes and ears of the consumer to incite purchase and a false sense of accomplishment.

Pure H20 is practically impossible, even in laboratory conditions, to exist on this planet. If it is ever acheived, it will last that way but for the briefest moment only. Don't be misled by marketing tools.

Secondly you made the statement:...it is not an RO but rather a water purifier." Well, an RO can far better 'purify' the water than the Lifesource ever can. Hands down, no comparison. The membrane technology removes dissolved solids to slightly larger than the molecule of H20. This is an incredible, albeit, common water treatment.

Your statement that you are seeing stains, calcium build up and other evendence of water damage, is testimony that the Lifesource, is no way making your water 'pure'.

Would adding a softener to the already installed Lifesource work? Well, that depends. Are you on city or well water? The Lifesource will act as a prefilter to the softener and can be recommended for city water applications but on most well water sources, it may be unnecessary.

I would seriously considering learning more about ROs and other factors in water treatment. Just go ahead and ask and someone will get bak with you.

Please excuse my wanting to make purifyingly clear a few terms as this is cause for many disappointed consumers.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II
ann-elizabeth
Original Author
15 years ago
Andy,

Thanks for the clarification....here are my goals.....maybe you can suggest a plan. My house came with the Lifesource unit already installed, so I am not necessarily tied to this system.

My Goals:

Soft Water& good tasting, clean water in all faucets/showers,tubs. We drink incredible amounts of water (our main beverage) and want it to taste good and be healthy too!

My Stats:

City Water Source

15 on the hard water scale according to the water company

Household of 2 adults and one child.

Run approximately 3 to 4 loads of laundry in Milele front loading washing machine.

Use dishwasher about 4 times a week.

Showers daily for hubby, and nightly baths for me in a rather large tub (60 gallons). Little boy sometimes bathes!

Current Likes:

water tastes good

The Lifesource Filter is good and dirty when I replace it once a month (which is really appalling!)

Dislikes:

New washer is getting build up. Stainless steel dishwasher always has a white haze to it. Whites laundry not as white but turn rather yellowly quickly. Towels seem stiff.

Son has very sensitive skin with consant excema on face around mouth. I don't know if that has anything to do with the water.

So I am open to any suggestions.....

Ann
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a water softener and whole house filter can reduce certain types of iron but not all. if the iron is soluable then these filters won't help that problem and you would need another type of filter like a pyrolox. This is discussed in great detail on the plumbing forum. Look for posts by AliceInWonderland and Justalurker - they are experts and offer very sound advise. Get the water tested professionally - you need a detailed report of what is in the water so a treatment system can be designed. Our toilets were dirty during the build but it was not iron - just dirt and dust. It turned out that we did have iron in the water but it was removed with softener and whole house filter. Also beware of water treatment "experts" who will try and sell you treatment systems that cost 3,4,or 5 grand (sometimes more) when you can do it yourself for a fraction of the price they give you. Lots of scammers in this business.
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Ok, water softener 101 ... First, get a complete water test from an independent lab. This is a MUST DO because without it everything is a guess. A quickie water test from Sears or a water softener company won't be complete. They only test for the "profitable" stuff. Second, hit the Yellow Pages and call at least three local water treatment pros. Make sure you call at least one of the big dogs like Kinetico or Culligan and at least a couple independent pros. DON'T TELL THEM YOU HAD YOUR WATER TESTED. Give each an opportunity to offer suggestions and provide you with a quote to meet your water treatment needs. IGNORE ANY THAT DON'T TEST YOUR WATER THEMSELVES as they can't speak intelligently to water treatment without knowing what needs to be treated. Ask lots of questions. Warranty, parts & labor, how long? Install, permits required, licensed plumber? Routine maintenance and costs? Do they stock parts? Response time for emergency (water leak) calls? If they don't explain things to your satisfaction that is a good indicator of how you'll be treated after the sale. After they've gone use your water test to compare with their's. Are all your treatment needs being addressed? Ask your neighbors if they have any water treatment experience. They might tell you who's good or who to avoid. Come back here and post the specific recommendations and hardware with the costs and we'll give you our opinions. If you're a DIYer then you have other options and here's a good place to start ... http://ohiopurewaterco.com/shop/customer/home.php?cat=179 These other threads may interest you ... http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=284967 http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=285326 The negatives regarding the pre-built softeners are ... Lower quality materials, mostly ABS which ages and becomes brittle. ABS does not do well with really hard water. On 3 gr hardness city water most any softener will give a decent service life BUT harder water than that seperates the pre-built box store softeners from the quality ones. While all ion exchange water softeners use resin and "tanks" there's a big difference in the resin and resin "tanks". Again, the pre-built softeners do not use the top quality resin from companies like Purolite or Ionac and the materials their resin "tanks" are made of are not the same quality as the Structural brand (10 year warranty) resin tanks the top quality softeners come with. Most of the parts are proprietary and available from limited sources and they tend to be expensive. The pre-built softeners are "cabinet" (all-in-one) designs and are much harder to work on. The cabinet design puts the resin tank inside the brine tank. The routine cleaning of the brine tank is more difficult and takes a lot more time than a conventional design softener but the Sears type does take less floor space (the ONLY advantage in it's design). The greatest falsehhood is that pre-built BOX store softeners are less expensive than the industry standard softeners. The Sears softeners around 40000 hardness capacity generally run a little under $500. For $466 you can have a Fleck 5600SE electronic on demand metered softener delivered to your home including shipping. You'll need to assemble it (takes less than 30 minutes) and install it. You can have a plumber assemble it and install it (you'd need a plumber to install the Sears softener also or DIY). You'll get a control valve that has proved it's reliability over 20+ years, is made of state of the art materials (Noryl) which does not turn brittle and is totally inert. You'll get a 5 year warranty on the control valve and ten year warranty on the resin tank. You can buy parts for the Fleck control valve locally or all over the internet. Complete parts and service/repair manuals are available for download and there is always someone everywhere who can service Fleck control valves as they are the long established industry standard AND they are as easy OR easier to program than the pre-built softeners. They tolerate the hardest water with no problem. Real softeners generally last 20+ years EVEN on ludicrously hard water while the service life on a pre-built softener seems to be under 5 years (if you're lucky) on really hard water and lasting longer than that is a rare exception. Sears, GE, Waterboss, North Star and the like are the most commonly complained about water softeners on this forum and all over the internet. The Fleck, Autotrol, and Clack water softeners just work and work and work and work and work ... Why buy a lesser quality water softener for more money?
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andy_c
15 years ago
Sorry, I thought the Lifesource was a whole house filter system. It sounds like you are talking about a faucet type filter. Is that right?

You need a softener. All the symptoms you are mentioning are evident of hard water damage.

I recommend Kinetico softeners but there is a wide range of different types out there. You migfht want to consider removing chlorine from the water as well. I really believe that ROs are they way to go for the best drinking water.

You need to know what your total iron count is, also.

Where are you located? Let em know if you have more questions, please.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II
chris8796
15 years ago
I was geussing the lifesource filter was just a whole house sediment filter based on her description. I would agree with Andy, I would get a water softner for the house and a RO unit for the drinking water (at the minimum). Any reputable service selling water softners will offer water analysis to determine Iron or other contaminents you may want or need to remove. It would be a good idea to get more than one analysis done from a different supplier. Afterall, there is a financial motive to sell you more stuff.

Poll your friends that share the same water company and see what they do. Also, depending on the source of the water things can change seasonally. My water varies between 15-35 grains, seemes to depend on the amount of rainfall and water in the aquafier.
User
15 years ago
Hi Ann,

Ok, water softener 101 ...

Since you're on city water you can get a copy of the EPA required water quality report from your water department. Keep in mind that those results will be at the water treatment plant and not necessarily at you kitchen sink.

Hit the Yellow Pages and call at least three local water treatment pros. Make sure you call at least one of the big dogs like Kinetico or Culligan for comparison and at least a couple independent pros.

Give each an opportunity to offer suggestions and provide you with a quote to meet your water treatment needs.

Ask lots of questions. Softening the entire house or just the water heater (bad idea)? Warranty, parts & labor or just parts, how long and on exactly what? Install, permits required, licensed plumber? Routine maintenance and costs? Do they stock parts? Response time for emergency (water leak) calls? If they don't explain things to your satisfaction that is a good indicator of how you'll be treated after the sale.

Are all your treatment needs being addressed?

Ask your neighbors if they have any water treatment experience. They might tell you who's good or who to avoid.

Come back here and post the specific recommendations and hardware components with the costs and we'll give you our opinions.

If you're a DIYer then you have other options but remember, when you do it yourself there's no one else to blame.
hyerground
15 years ago
How do you know you have 15g hard water? is it well or municipal? I highly recommend EWS Water systems.
jessi_david01_googlemail_com
13 years ago
RainSoft conditioning systems are mostly used. Enchanted Waters specializes in residential water treatments, and magnetic water softeners

Here is a link that might be useful: Enchanted Waters

water softener & whole house filter?

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andy_c

ann-elizabeth
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water softener & whole house filter?

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andy_c

ann-elizabethOriginal Author

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ann-elizabeth
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