I highly doubt if any judge would give you any sort of judgement against this woman after 13 yrs. In fact, I expect the statute of limitations has long expired on whatever legal recourse you may have had to get this resolved.

If this woman does not have the professional or personal integrity to uphold her contract with you, I don't believe there's anything you can do about it at this late date.

Sorry,

Laurie

P.S. There would be no slander involved if the claims you make are true and you have her contract to prove it.

I think it has been along time, 13 years in fact, to be pursuing this. It might cost you alot of money to pursue legally, and Im not sure you could do much even if you paid for the papers since time limits are set by law for such things. I dont know if there is a statute of limitations on this kind of thing or not.

When we get our dogs the breeder gives us the form to fill out and send in with a check to name the dog and get a certificate from AKC for the dog. You are naming your dog so you are the one who sends it in?

Or, are you saying the owner didn't have registration on her dog that the litter was from? I'm not following.

If you didn't register him he doesn't have an AKC name... I don't think at this late juncture you will get anywhere with the breeder. This is your longstanding loyal companion. Put whatever name you want on the urn and chalk this up to know better next time.

When you get a puppy from a truly reputable breeder they give you all the paperwork the day they transfer the puppy to you. My breeder has each person fill out a card with info that she sends into AKC and she give us the chip registration card to fill out and send in with a check. The should tell you in advance what their feeding the puppies so you can have it on hand when you get home and our puppies come home with meds for prevention of coccydia (sp?) she has already started the treatment but you finish up the SMP-TMZ. She also gives each owner a handout listing what vaccinations the pup has had and a schedule with the dates on which you should be getting the next vaccinations. It is a whole packet on training, potting training, feeding, exercising. Wonderful for a new first time owner. I am so sorry you were misled.

If you ever want to own a labrador, I have a wonderful, responsible breeder. Her dogs come with limited registration which means you cannot breed her dogs and register them with the AKC. This prevents people from doing some of the nasty things that have happened with imbreading our particular breed since it is so popular. She is just a maniac about responsiblity and I truly respect her for being so.

Best regards.

The AKC is truly a pretty useless organization. They'll register anything and everything, including litters from puppy mills, backyard breeders and the like. The status that used to come with an AKC-registered dog is no more.

I say forget the official name. Give your little champ any name you want. He deserves it.

I don't understand why it matters. There is no benefit to registering a sterile dog (who would be beyond his breeding years anyway) with the AKC. He's still a purebred dog, even if he isn't registered. I've got 4 unregistered purebreed dogs. We've had 2 registered and never thought to use the goofy AKC names for their ashes. We used the names that we gave them, that we remember them by. You can put whatever name you want on his ashes. Color me perplexed...

When my AKC bassett had puppies I had to registered the litter of puppies myself and the AKC sent forms for each puppy for me to give to the buyers to name and register the puppies themselves.The cost of registration for the buyers was $15.00(if I remember correctly)if done within a certain amount of time.After a certain time the price of registration went up.I don't know how long you have to register a dog but the breeder would have had to register the litter of puppies herself.These was how I did it 2 1/2 years ago..Debbie

Shannon, I kinda know what you're feeling. My golden was never registered... I just didn't bother because I had no plans to breed or show him and didn't see the point. However, as the years have gone by, on occasion I wish I would have. Not even sure why it bothers me from time to time... maybe just because I want something recorded on him or if it's because I feel it was "the thing to do" and I never did.

Ditto what Meghane said.I don't see the point.You dog has been your loyal companion even though he didn't have a "Registered AKC name" and what difference would it have made if he did? Let it go and enjoy the rest of his years,and when the time comes just use the name you gave him!
I think you could probably trace his lineage if it is that important to you by knowing the name of the Sire and Dam and the date of his birth.
As for getting a refund,I think that would be moot at this point!

You said~~~~~~~

Our contract stated that dog was a purebred and if proof could not be provided I would get a refund. Not and exchange, but refund. Because I was paying for a purebred.

Are you now saying you would like a refund? After years of your dog's companionship? I don't think a court would hear the case. Should have been pursued years upon years ago. Enjoy your dogs later years and let it go.

I agree that a dog with "papers" is not any different from one without. Dogs that the are of pet quality will not (or at least should not) be bred or be shown anyway. Really, the only ones that need papers are the ones that are closest to breed standards, have a minimum number of points resulting from winning dog shows (for conformation) and will be continuing that line of the breed.

Like someone already said, AKC has been bombarded with backyard breeder and puppy mill registries, not to mention fraudulent entries. Maybe the dog shouldn't even BE registered if deemed pet quality.

By the way, I don't think any less of the pet quality dogs...I actally prefer mutts or shelter dogs (the unwanteds), myself. :o)

I imagine you love your dog (don't think you mentioned his name)...and I really doubt he knows what the fuss is all about...maybe he does, I don't know...but placing the name you call your dog (on a daily basis) on the urn might mean more to you in years to come.

shannon01
That is the most bizzare thing I've heard in a long time. I don't understand WHY it would matter. Do you think your beloved dog cares if he is a AKC dog? Will he not get into dog heaven without his AKC papers? What is the real reason behind this? Are you looking for money from this elderly women? Why bother her? It's been 13YEARS!!!! I think it's sad what you are doing, very sad.

To me the tone of the post was only attempting to ask for a refund in order to convince the woman to respond. I thought her true interest was in obtaining the dogs papers. But, I agree it's a bit late for that.

However, I CAN understand why she might want the papers. As I stated, it crosses my mind from time to time. Funny how the mind can work sometimes. What one person may not comprehend could make a perfect sense to another. I think it's an emotional thing.

...........................................................

What proof do you have he is not purebred? According to you he looks exactly like his Champion father and his uncle. Prove he is not a purebred and even Judge Judy would refund your money. You were only guaranteed a purebred. You were not guaranteed AKC papers.

While all 3 of my dogs are registered. I will never ever again register any of my future dogs with AKC for some of the very reasons expressed above as well as some research I have been doing regarding AKC and alliance with a certain pet chain that sells "purebreds".

I think what OP is getting at is that she paid for a certain thing, as do I each time I go to a certain breeder. There is an expectation when you want a certain breed of dog, etc.

While I see OP's argument clearly, it is too late now, doesn't really matter to us, but I think does to her. My first lab's urn has the name we called him on it, not his paper name. The same will be the case when my old gal's time is up. Her name is very long, name of kennel first, blah, blah, blah. Nothing remotely close to the name we call her - Martha. Come to think of it, none of my 3 are called their paper names. All have nicknames:-)

After 13 years, you are worried about registration? Really?

I am going through a similar ordeal. Maybe I can offer some perspective.
I have been calling/writing/leaving messages for my breeder because I haven't received papers. Last correspondance was 3 weeks ago and was told she has them but might want to change them??? I was trying to persuade her to do what I want so still in the gentle request stage but I am getting irritated.

Why does it matter if you only want a pet dog? Part of the reason it bothers me is because it's an interesting part of having a pure bred and I feel like it's part of the experience. When you pay over $1500 for a puppy from someone who is deemed a "reputable breeder" you expect certain things for that. You expect not just the freakin papers but you exect that everything else that should have been done in terms of health and care, has been done. When you get the runaround with the papers it really makes you wonder what else hasn't been done. For all I know my breeder could have ordered the pup from a mill. The least you can do is send some papers.

I'm not saying the papers have anything to do with anything. Just that 1.) It's expected and 2.) If you're too lazy to register the dog then what else were you too lazy to do?

Am I right. Good topic! Please keep the comments and suggestions coming for the OP and myself as to what you think we should do.

I don't think there are any reasons to put words in the poster's mouth nor to judge her harshly. It is clearly an emotional issue with the poster and one based on the fact she doesn't understand the lack of significance of just having papers.
Without sounding judemental this is one of those issues that should just be filed under the "don't swet the small stuff" files. Club registry papers are only needed for one thing, to open the doors for those wanting to breed. It has nothing to do with worthyness, those merrits come later after trials and performance grades in which they earn titles ( or not) and registered health tests.
In lamens terms registered club papers mean nothing to a person not breeding. Hope that helps explain some.

As with so many of the frustrations in life, the best one can do in such a situation is to learn from it. Perhaps the practical lesson here is to not pay for a presumably registered pup unless you receive all necessary paperwork at the time of purchase. On an emotional level, honor your beautiful dog, when the time comes, by sending him off with his own name, the name he knew himself to be, the name with which he embraced his life and graced yours, the name he will recognize when you talk to him in times of remembrance. That is the only name he loves and deserves.

Laurie

First, Shannon I am sorry the breeder didn't supply you with the necessary papers to register your dog, I am sure it is to late for the papers. This in no way diminishes the love you have for your elderly pet.
Second, to anyone interested a "Reputable Breeder" will supply you with the necessary paper to send to AKC on purchase. More than likely a Reputable breeder will only supply "pet quality" registration.
Third, AKC is a registration base that provides many activities for owners and their dogs. They are not a dog breeding business.
Last - AKC has issued a statement they are not going forward with the Petland partnership for registering your dogs.

eandhl, Does someone think the AKC is in the breeding business? I must have missed something here.

I am interested in your statement that the AKC decided not to go through with their agreement with Petland. Where did you get the info? I would be interested in reading what was said by the AKC?

Here's the response I received when I very recently wrote to the AKC regarding this very issue:

Thank you for your feedback. We appreciate and understand the concerns of our breeders and dog owners. We hope the information provided below is helpful.

At the September meeting of the AKC Delegates, the AKC announced a program in which Petland may facilitate the individual AKC registration process for eligible dogs sold in their stores. Today, many of these AKC-registrable dogs are registered with other registries or not at all. Several questions emerged following that announcement. We provide the following details to reduce misunderstandings about the program.

What kind of agreement does the AKC have with Petland?

Following are some of the basic facts about this plan:

Only AKC-registrable dogs are eligible for this program. The program does not provide registration to dogs not otherwise eligible for registration. We are doing this in large part to assure that AKC-registrable puppies already in these stores are registered with AKC.
AKC will educate Petland staff about the value and importance of AKC registration. AKC will highlight the opportunity for participation in appropriate AKC events and the importance of programs like AKC Canine Good Citizen to promote responsible dog ownership.
Petland will encourage new puppy owners to register with the AKC. Petland will help the customer complete the AKC registration form online, similar to the current online registration process. The customer will pay the entire AKC registration fee in the store. Petland may charge the customer a small processing fee to cover their cost. Registering in the store increases the likelihood that the puppy owner will register their new puppy with the AKC. Research has shown that if dog owners dont register their dog soon after acquiring it, they are less likely to do so in the future.

This program allows the AKC inspections team to continue its active presence in the commercial sector. If puppies sold in retail pet stores are not AKC registrable, AKC loses the ability to inspect and influence the care and conditions in pet stores and the breeding kennels that supply the pet stores.
AKC and Petland are not engaged in an endorsement, partnership, affiliation or joint venture. A written agreement between AKC and Petland exists, in large part, to protect the AKC and ensure that all applicable AKC Registration Rules and Procedures are followed.
AKC does not endorse any breeder or seller of dogs. Our central message about how to buy a puppy -- to thoroughly research the breed and the breeder and to consult AKC resources, starting with the parent club -- has not and will not change.
This program has not changed AKCÂs registration policies. The AKC has always registered dogs sold through pet retailers as long as the pet store and breeder are in compliance with our standards for accurate record keeping and meet the AKCÂs care and conditions requirements. Read our Compliance fact sheet at: http://www.akc.org/press_center/facts_stats.cfm?page=6. The program with Petland offers AKC an opportunity to communicate the benefits of registration and involve new puppy owners in the world of AKC but does not imply an endorsement any more than AKC papers have in the past. It will ensure that AKC inspectors and investigators continue to have access to all kennels breeding AKC puppies. This will continue enforcement of our care and conditions policies and compliance with record-keeping.
Why is AKC encouraging the registration of all registrable dogs?

Today, many AKC-registrable dogs sold by pet retailers are not registered with the AKC by their owner. Less than 50 percent of AKC-registrable dogs are registered with the AKC. The AKC strategic plan targets this problem in all customer groups, including pet stores. When these new owners do not register, AKC and our clubs lose the ability to encourage them to become part of the fancy or to educate them about responsible dog ownership. We feel we can best promote our values and bring people into the world of AKC events by reaching out to new dog owners no matter where they choose to purchase their dog.
AKCÂs ability to influence legislation and public opinion is directly linked to the number of dog owners we represent. Ultimately, AKCÂs ability to take a leadership stand on any issue is closely tied to the size of our constituency (the number of people with AKC registered dogs).
AKC can best serve the interests of dogs and their owners by maintaining stringent standards and promoting the benefits of AKC registration. With more than 20 different for-profit businesses acting as canine "registries" in the U.S., it is important that the AKC distinguish itself as the genuine purebred registry. Many of these for-profit businesses will "register" dogs with little or no proof of lineage and none have any inspections or compliance standards. These businesses actively and aggressively work to convert AKC registrations into applications for their listing services. The fact that AKC can inspect kennels and pet shops and take action against them whenever necessary protects the welfare of all AKC puppies.
AKCÂs ability to offer important programs is directly linked to our annual registrations. In addition to subsidizing AKC events, registration fees provide support for a range of programs and services including the AKC Canine Health Foundation and the AKC Museum of the Dog. Registration income also provides an important source of funding for our scholarship programs, veterinary outreach, our compliance department, combating unfair canine legislation, providing disaster relief and much more.

What else is being done to promote AKC Registration?

We are less than a year into a five year strategic plan that has already introduced a suite of benefits and resources for the fancy including a breeder newsletter, full litter registration option, litter coupons, online accounts and enhancements to online dog registration. In addition, AKC has introduced new registration benefits like dog.com e-certificates for both breeders and individual registrants and complimentary first office visits at participating veterinarians. As we continue implementing the plan, additional programs for breeders and new dog owners will be introduced. We have made a significant investment in a diversified advertising campaign that communicates our mission and promotes the value of AKC registration and the integrity of our Registry. Our message embodied in our advertising tagline "WeÂre more than champion dogs. WeÂre the dogÂs champion" has reached almost 200 million people in print and broadcast media during the past year.

How will this impact rescue?

Dogs will be sold in pet stores whether or not AKC registers them. However the AKC feels that by bringing more registrants into the AKC fold we have the opportunity to educate them and involve them in programs that promote responsible dog ownership.

What prompted this agreement?

The AKC has undertaken a strategic plan to reverse the significant decline in registrations that has occurred during the last decade. The plan includes a number of separate initiatives. Together these initiatives are designed to regain market share, while maintaining a registry of unequaled integrity and size. The approach outlined in the plan is to increase registrations by addressing the needs of all customer groups  fanciers, breeders, pet owners and the commercial channel. This focus stems from a belief that purebred dogs are best served by the AKC, and that breeding programs are improved with our involvement. This inclusive approach helps position AKC as the voice for all dogs and all dog owners.

What are the next steps?

As a result of the questions raised both during and after the September Delegates Meeting the Staff will continue reviewing and communicating with our core constituency. A meeting will be held prior to the October Board Meeting which will include a number of Delegates and fanciers to discuss this initiative. The AKC Board of Directors will discuss this topic during the October Board Meeting. The program is under review by staff and management. Further details will be provided when they are available.

You may direct comments to:

· Email: puppyreg@akc.org

· Mail: AKC Operations, 5580 Centerview Drive, Raleigh, NC 27606-3390

Thank you,
David Roberts, Assistant Vice President
Registration and Customer Service

I have checked the AKC site for the October, 2006 meeting, I don't see where they have backed out of the agreement. If you can point me to something that says they've agreed to back out of this ridiculous agreement, I'd love to read it.

Thanks.

This is a copy/paste from another dog site.
Here is the statement that was issued:

are already AKC registrable.

AKC's Board of Directors and management believed that this agreement would
have helped to further the mission of the AKC. Promoting responsible dog
ownership to new puppy owners, implementing our care and conditions
policies, and exposing more dog owners to AKC educational programs and
services would have had even greater reach.

In the past few weeks we have received many comments about this agreement,
both positive and negative. We have listened to the concerns and because
this issue has become so divisive, we believe it is in the best interest of
our sport and the American Kennel Club not to go forward with this
initiative.

Ron Menaker, Chairman of the Board
Dennis B. Sprung, President and CEO>>

Thanks for that update. I'm relieved to hear it.

It doesn't change my opinion of AKC registration, though. It's a weird issue. I believe that it means next-to-nothing for pet owners. But on the other hand, I'd question any breeder who didn't register their litters. It's still one of those "least you can do" standards, a minimal amount of proof that your breeder gives a sh*t. But when I purchase a puppy, I'm far more interested in seeing proof of health testing, checking out the sire and dam and looking at pedigrees of both. Not because I want my pet to be show-quality, but because of the health and temperament that comes with careful breeding. Because the AKC is loose and fast with registration, papers are no guarantee of a healthy, sound dog.

The original poster is long past those issues. So we're just reminding her of what she already knows. She's had a great dog for 13 years. That's what matters -- not some silly piece of paper.

"we want him to have this."

He truly doesn't care. He'd prefer you spend your energy directly with him, not his papers.

We wanted a dog to be our companion, protector, best friend. We chose a shephard for what the breed offers. As we shopped around we came across some pretty scary dogs. Because we were seeking one of the dogs on the list homeowners insurance considers a "risk" we knew we needed to be sure we got a dog from a reputable breeder. There is no gurarantee but the lady with the female that looked like it wanted to kill us and the male with his tail between his legs like he had just been beaten, well, that just made us think harder about our decision.

We found a local breeder with the top 7th breeding male- Excaliber. This lady knew her dogs. We even considered taking in an older dog who needed a home. She did not have pups at the time and suggested we call her friend who did.

We learned a lot from these folks who were absorbed in shephard life. Every stitch of their home reeked of love of dogs. She had registered the liter but did not have the slips back from AKC to give us. She even instructed us on the letter L to be used for this litter. Due to her reputation there was no reason to not trust her to send the papers. So there is no lesson for me to learn, except don't take the puppy until I have papers on hand. Again, due to her reputation, there was no reason to doubt her promise.

Time went by and I tried to contact her, more time went by and I still tried. I have recently made a scrapbook of his life and that made me start to think it would be cool to have his geneology in his book. So I thought I would give a shot at looking her up. I do not want money, regardless of her offer of "refund". I just wondered if she did not do it, could I do it myself. I figured it was probably be too late but it would be worth a shot.

I know my buddy is just that. He has been exactly what we were seeking. He has been loyal, loving to every child he sees, protector of our home. He prances like he thinks he is in a ring. I do not think having his name being registered will make him any better. I just thought it would be kind of cool.

It really bugs me when people flake out. I think this breeder was at the end of her breeding years and since this was a litter that did not produce her next ring dog, she decided to stop. But it really bugs me that she didn't finish the job. Her comment of "why did you wait so long" really irked me because I was calling her within the first year and she never called me back.

All I really want is for her to just return my call and tell me she did not do it, sorry, or that I can still do it myself (which I doubt with all the years). I realize that AKC means not a whole lot, again I just thought it would be cool.

Again, I just thought this would be a cool thing to add to his book. Just like I added the sympathy cards to my cat's book after she passed.

Cindy X said: In lamens terms registered club papers mean nothing to a person not breeding.

oops, I need to correct my own statement. I should have typed club papers don't mean much if you don't plan on breeding and or joining the other ativities AKC offers in which papers are required. Sorry about that.

Since you know the registered names of your dog's parents (I assume), you should be able to request a geneology from the AKC to add to his book. There might even be a geneology search on the AKC website. It's worth checking out, anyway.

Laurie

Shannon, was a neuter/spay agreement part of your contract? If so and the proof of neutering was not sent to the breeder, she would not have sent registration papers to you. Check your contract carefully, most do include this clause.

If you bought the dog with the understanding it would be shown or bred, the breeder is at fault. Unfortunately you didn't persue the issue within a year or two. It's too late now.

Are you planning to breed this dog? Is that why you need his registration now? Are you hoping to get a puppy from him to carry on after he is gone? I've seen people attempt this before, that's why I ask.

Shannon,

What is your dog's name?...you may have already mentioned it, but I can't find it.

Shannon, I am fairly sure if you have the complete registered names of your dogs parents you can get a pedigree and it sounds like that is what you really want. Usually in the back of dog magazines you will find Pedigrees for sale but again you must have the full registered name of both parents.

Beeanne- in response to your ealier posting, our papers actually state that he is gurarnteed a purebred with proof of AKC or full refund. Not that I am expecting a refund after 13 years but if a breeder ignores you, how could you get a refund within the first year as in the case of the other poster?

I do realize that the AKC registration is not that important. His testicles were not descended so breeder sold him to us with no mention of getting him fixed. She just said that if they do descend she will kick herself for selling him, but she was sure they would not, they did not, so no kicking was necessary.

I found a great site a while ago pedigreedatabase.com. I was able to look up his parents and go waaaaaaaay back. I even unearthed some skeleton where one of the dogs became sterile and breeder was substituting other males. So there was some controvery as to what pups really belonged to that male. I guess DNA needs to be researched before AKC will assign numbers??? Anyhoo, it was cool to go back into the early 1900's to see the relatives of my pal.

I also found a site that offered pedigree printouts for $32. I think the site I already found has what I want.

I did come across a photo of Leiter's Excaliber, or Cal as she called him. That is the breeder we initially went to. We got to meet Cal and immediatly fell for the breed when we saw him in person. What a dog! He was huge!

I am not interested in getting another dog that is related to mine. There is no replacing, or coming close to. He is very unique. If it were not for the hip displacia he would have been a great father and a pup of his would have been fun.

Regardless of papers, we still got what we were seeking. We got a wonderful friend with all the qualities we hoped to find.

I know it is hard to "read" the motives in a posting. Mine sounded like I wanted a refund, or another dog, after 13 years. Or it sounded like I thought my dog was not special without papers. I rescued my cat from a petshop, dh thought she was not the cutest cat, she had no papers. She was with me for 17 wonderful years. There is nothing more special about a pet than the love shared between the human and the animal. Papers or not.