I need some major help making a kitty decision (sorry so long!)

12 years ago

Back in June a stray cat from my work's parking lot jumped right in the car on my lap as I got in the car to go home. I turned the engine on expecting her to bolt. She hunkered down. I closed the door. She fell asleep before we reached the exit to the parking lot. As we drove home, I petted her all over, my hands were totally black from the pavement and grease and oil from the parking lot. Remember, this is also in Phoenix and about 110 degrees at 2am, and she hadn't done much grooming to herself because of the toxins on the pavement and from the paragraph below.

While I was petting her belly while we drove, I could feel wriggling in her belly, now my husband would kill me FIVE times over once I got home! He was cool with it and we made Amy (I named her on the way home) and her swollen belly as comfortable as possible for the next two weeks.

She gave birth and I got to film it and take pics, she was right under the bed and within an hour she was letting us pick them up and pet them. She would come and gently take them back when she felt they needed to be by her side, but never did she act aggressive towards any humans.

There were 5 kittens, and I decided to adopt them out in pairs, 2 kittens, 2 kittens, and our temporary roommate promised he would take the last kitten and Amy when he moved. My husband and I were gone all week and the roommate was give strict instructions to take both cats (he closed on a house the day we left) when he moved and several other chores around our house that he hadn't done.

So we get home from vacation tonight and what do you know: Amy's room door is closed, meaning Amy was in there because I gave him very specific rules to follow, such as food dishes still in the sink, the mail which I asked him to do. Amy has a severe attitude with other cats, and has chased mine off several times (I have 3 Ragdolls, and they don't have the gene in them to fight, they just want to chase, be chased and play). However, a promise is a promise and to just dump this crap on me when my parents came home with us and roommate's room has no mattress (he is borrowing it until he can afford one), the bed was such a mess, no vacuuming done, and his room is filled with crap, and nothing has been cleaned AT ALL. Amy's room smelled to high heaven like ammonia, and it was just gross.

Okay, here is the conundrum: I never wanted to seperate Amy and the last kitten (which roommate DID take) because they are now bonded. He has left me with a cat that goes bonkers when she is with my three other cats, and has very sharp, thick nails. I do trim them and tried Soft-Paws but she just pulls them all off within minutes. The last resort I think I have to keep her is by declawing her since I can't find a home for a 2 year old cat, and my other cats have tollerated her tonight, but who knows? I don't want Amy to go to a shelter and will definitely not give her away to a stranger.

Before you flame, please know that I despise declawing, but if it is going to save one of my other cats' lives by doing this, I think it is a solution. Of course I will charge the roommate who bailed on Amy to pay for it, but I am just so angry as to why he would lie for months assuring me Amy was his when he knew all along he wouldn't take her.

I guess I wanted to write this down to get my feelings out with other pet lovers, but want to know newer techniques on declawing if possible.

Thank you SO very much for your opinions, and again, I hate the idea of declawing but if Amy is this aggressive I can't banish her to a room forever.

-Michelle

Comments (14)

calliope
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
You have gone way above the call of duty to help this poor cat. No, there is no 'new' way to declaw and it's not like you are worried about furniture, but the safety of your other cats. Do what you have to do. Be aware however, that just because the front claws are gone doesn't mean they can't wrap their legs around another cat and bite and claw like lleh with their back claws like a buck rabbit. It happened to me when I tried to rescue a frightened declawed cat.

You sure got the 'treatment' from your roomate. Sorry. Hope things turn out for all concerned.
Elly_NJ
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I disagree.

1. Cats swipe with their claws, but the real danger is their bite. Declawing will not have any effect, except to make her a bigger biter. And it won't diffuse the situation.

2. How long has Amy been separated with her kittens? Can you wait to better integrate Amy into the house? Has she been kept separate all this time? Maybe there is hope integrating her?
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I kind of have a different take on this post. Alot of parents raise their kids to be their whole life. They throw themselves into their children so much that sometimes the children end up becoming the more dominate personality. These parents have no interests of their own and probably don't even know what to do with themselves when their children aren't there. This happens a lot with children of divorce because of a competition element that presents itself, or maybe even because one or both of the parents are emotionally messed up and the child(ren) feel they have to protect their parent(s). Here are two examples: #1 - A very dear friend of mine who's son and my son are very close friends. She still sleeps in the same bed with her 9-1/2 y/o and her 7 y/o. Almost every night they guilt her into sleeping with them. She hasn't slept in the same bed with her husband in almost 10 years! If DS wants to sleep over with her DS, they have to do it over there because my friend doesn't allow sleepovers away from their home. I had a party for DS and she insisted on sleeping over with him. That wasn't a problem. The problem was that because she always has her kids with her, I HAD to include her daughter in this all-boy birthday party and sleepover. It is my opinion that she uses her kids as a sheild so she doesn't have to deal with her very real marriage issues (alcoholism, infidelity, extreme debt, and more). #2 - My sister. My niece is accustumed to having access to everything and everybody. If there is a closed door in the house, like say I went to the restroom, she will bang on it until I come out or open the door. Not that she wants what is on the other side of the door. She just wants to have access whenever she wants. If she doesn't get her way, she will scream bloody murder until my sister thinks she's having an asthma attack (never even been diagnosed with asthma) and picks her up and cuddles her until it's over. It's very plain to see who has the more dominate personality. So when these children grow up, roles tend to be reversed. The children EXPECT the parents to answer to them and the parents feel obligated to inform the children of everything. I see this in real life with my brother-in-law. His mother informs him of EVERYTHING and he is in the Navy living 1,000 miles away with a family of his own. My BIL, on the other hand, gets mad if he finds out the tiniest little thing that happens and she didn't tell him. If this is the dynamic of a family, anyone who marries into it should work within the dynamic and then raise their own children differently, if they so choose. It's like playing two ballgames at once. It will be hard, but that's why the poster on the birthday thread is having such a hard time. In my own relationship with my parents, we are not like that. My mom had emergency surgery to remove her gall bladder and no one told me until my aunt called from Arizona to tell me. I was a little miffed, seeing as it was and emergency procedure with the risk pof infection, but still it is THEIR business and does not effect me in any way. I am the only relative living anywhere close to them and all I expect is to be informed if I need to help in any way (feed animals, pick up mail, watch house) or if it's life-threatening (my father's heartattack in May of last year when my mom was 2 hours away and I was 20 minutes away). To me, they are adults and they deserve to make their own decisions independent of me, just as I expect of them.
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Lovemykids Too, I'm so sorry you are going through this. There are a lot of parents who have been through similar things, so don't feel like you are the only one. We went through some difficult times with one of my kids, so I sympathize with you and I have advice. First, nurture and take care of your marriage. For a lot of couples these kinds of problems take a toll on a marriage. Next, even if your son won't go to counseling, you can go. Particularly if he has anxiety and/or depression you may want to get some tips on how to handle this from a professional. If you haven't been to counseling before then keep in mind you may have to try more than one to find someone you can relate to. My husband and I found a wonderful counselor who had been through a lot of the same things our child had been through, but the first counselor we tried was a useless waste of time. If it were my child, I would consider paying for a cell phone for my son. It would be worth it to me to be able to call him directly if he went back to live at his girlfriend's house. But you don't owe him a cell phone and don't pay for one if you don't want to. In my opinion you are doing the right thing about the car. If the car becomes a major point of contention then I might even sell it or keep it and store it somewhere else. Since I'm not familiar with the situation I am just guessing, but perhaps the situation might partially resolve itself as time goes on? I can't imagine your son's girlfriend's parents like having an unemployed 19 year old man around who can't help pay for food and has no car. Hmmm, sleeping on the couch, sharing a car, burden on girlfriend's family....betcha there's more to that story than he's telling. Maybe girlfriend will lose interest after a few months if he has no more money. I would talk to the counselor about what to do when your son swears at you and says he hates you. Our daughter never did that and I have no idea what to do but I would be very reluctant to allow a grown man (or woman), even my own child, swear at me and say he hates me while he was standing in my own house. I would sit down with my husband and my son and work out a formal agreement between adults who live in the same house. I would go to a neutral location, like a local McDonald's, sit down with a cup of coffee and a notepad and tell him that you respect the fact that he is an adult. Ask him to tell you what he thinks parents should expect from an adult son living in their house and what adult sons should expect from their parents. Hear him out. Stay calm. Although he is sort of an adult, he's a very young adult, so model the behavior you wish he would use. If he starts getting angry or if you start getting angry, you can always stop the session with "I'm glad we sat down and talked together, it has been very helpful to hear what you think, let us think about it and we'll talk again tomorrow". If he is talking without swearing or yelling then be sure to end the session before he gets tired or overwhelmed and the situation deteriorates. Resist the urge to keep pushing through because he's been *good*. At this point you want to start a pattern of reasonable communication more than you want the agreement, although you do want the agreement. Another tool in your toolbox is "convince me". Instead of convincing HIM that you are right, ask him to convince you. I think I would find something that you think you could compromise on and let him convince you before I started on something bigger. Another great phrase is "you are an adult and I know you will figure this out". Also excellent is "what is your plan", a very versatile phrase. Also good is "you are an adult, adults contribute to the household they live in, how do you plan to contribute to this household". Adults living in a household pay their way, either rent, chores, or both. My daughter asked to discuss our issues by email and I was reluctant to do that, but it worked out much better for her and surprisingly also for her dad. We handled some in person but some in email. Work out consequences for infractions, yours and his. Don't agree to consequences that you won't follow through on. Don't tell him he can't live there if he doesn't mow the grass unless you're prepared to make him move out if he doesn't mow the grass. Not all consequences have to be negative. Maybe one of his consequences has to be finding a joke that makes the whole family laugh, maybe he has to figure out how to make ganache for the family or you get to wake him up with a silly song in the morning. 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michelle_phxaz
Original Author
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Man, was I angry when I wrote that! Thank you both for your responses.

While we were gone Lily, our 11 year old with not a mean bone in her body, suffered a large scratch down the center of her nose.

Amy and her kittens were kept in a spare bedroom the whole time she was pregnant and for the 10 weeks after giving birth, but we let them all out daily when the kittens were old enough to get around and wanted more freedom. Amy rarely came out of the room, but if she saw any of our cats she went "mama-cat" on them, chasing, hissing and spitting until we jumped in. Amy has NEVER bit any person, it is solely claws.

We were so tired last night from the trip and went to bed early and left Amy out of her room with the other cats. They are all intact today, so my hope is that Amy will integrate with the other cats. I have no choice. On her own Amy is the most loving cat, loves people and to be petted and is even potty trained. No, not just litter box trained, she will straddle a toilet and let go! I know she was someone's pet, she found me at work and we work at an Indian casino, so I did get the word out to all the tribal members to see if she was missing, but no one responded.

I am going to just hope and pray that they will all get along. The declawing will come only as an absolute necessity, I shudder just thinking of doing that to her, but only if absolutely necessary.
annzgw
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I agree with elly that declawing will not diffuse such a situation but may make it even worse. Not only would she become a biter to your other cats, but I think her personality toward you may even change. Without the ends of her toes she may find it impossible to continue using the toilet and some cats even find using litter painful after they've been declawed.

I think her behavior was due to being a protective momma and that it will turn out to be a good thing that your roomie left her and took the kitten. I also think your relaxed (tired) state of mind may have played a part in everyone getting along last night. I suggest you pretend she's been there for years and see if everyone continues to get along.

There is no reason such a loving, 2 yr old cat couldn't be rehomed and I would urge you to work with rescue groups and take her to 'adoption days' if she ends up not getting along with your cats.

Any chance your parents may want her??
calliope
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Disagree with what? I said that declawing won't make her harmless. They are quite able to use teeth and back claws like happened to me when I tried to pull an escaped declawed cat out from under a porch where she was hiding. I also think that with the kitten gone, it may be a blessing in disguise because the protective urge is gone. I know that a queen will continue to protect and bond with a kitten because I had one who paired with her kitten for nine years.

Also agree that the relaxed attitude may help. They're going to 'work out the pecking order'. Happens in any cat household and the pecking order will have to be worked out again. But they usually do find some equilibrium and it may mean that your rescue will claim the room she once was confined to as her own and I'll bet the other cats will honour that arrangement.
cat_mom
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I am neither condoning nor condemning declawing; but she would NOT necessarily become a biter or would have poor litter box habits if she is declawed. I have known many declawed cats over the years and they were not biters, nor did they ever avoid using the litter box.
Debbie Downer
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Cat mom and all, no one's saying the cat WOULD become a biter but only there is a real RISK of aggression problems or other personality changes. Is it worth the risk when there may be options with a more certain or sure outcome? The point is you shouldnt think of it as a "last resort," because there is a real chance it would NOT solve the problem.

How I manage a similar situation is to do sort of a time share - my old 20 yr old cat stays in the bedroom 8 am - 8 pm, then gets the run of the house 8 pm- 8 am when I put the new cats downstairs in the basement (there's couches and stuff downthere and I feed them when they go downstairs so they have pleasant associations. What makes this work is that its so highly routine - cats just LOVE routine and predicatability, same things happening at the same time each day. What was NOT working was just trying to keep them separate in random, unpredictable ways. Everyone has settled down knowing they each have their own space and own times for occupying the "common area." In the wild, cats often make these same types of arrangments to "time-share" an area.

If youre not up for that.... do consider finding another home. Ive done it many times, found home for cat in an unfortunate situation. There is a way of screening people and making sure its a good home - I could tell you more if you want.

There's always the long difficult process of getting cats used to each others smell, and build up their tolerance for each other. But Im thinking because the ragdolls are so passive and unable to defend themselves (are they? Ive never had one) that might actually be triggering the other cat's dominance and urge to drive them out of the territory. Nature and feline territorial behavior is not pretty sometimes. In my case I decided I just could NOT put my old 20 yr old cat, deaf and arthritic, through the attacks she was getting from the 1 young new cat I brought into the house. She could not defend herself and she was literally getting knocked down, clawed, bitten and terrorized and she started peeing out of the box she was so freaked out.

Now, Im happy to report, she is feeling secure again and her old self.
michelle_phxaz
Original Author
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thanks all, tonight we tried to have no cats in the bedroom but an all-out screaming brawl happened outside our bedroom door. Cali, my largest Ragdoll (declawed and queen of the house) had Amy cornered in the hall bathroom behind the door. We brought Amy in the room and she is sleeping on the bed happy as can be.

The other cats I am not as worried with, they just walk away, but Cali is a bully and Amy is still a mama cat. To be honest, if they dropped this attitude I think they would actually make good playmates!

I have vowed to make this work, I don't like any of our "kids" sleeping with us, but Amy does make a good legwarmer!

I purchased some Feliway when we got Amy while she was pregnant, I don't think it did anything, but should I give it another try now that the babies are gone? I have heard great things about it, but I haven't seen any results.

Thanks!
annzgw
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Is Amy spayed yet? I can't remember if you mentioned it in your other post.

Sounds like things are working out OK........congrats!
michelle_phxaz
Original Author
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hi Annz, yes, Amy is spayed, but things AREN'T working out okay! Amy and Cali go at each other with brutal force, and Cali had Amy cornered in the hall bathroom last night and we had to physically seperate them.

Still wanting to know if anyone has used Feliway.
glaserberl
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
I have used Feliway but I'm not sure how effective it is. It seemed to me that things were calmer but then we only had to deal with occasional bouts of aggression. I do like some of the products that the "Only Natural Pet Store" has. I have not have bought any of their behavioral formulas but have used a couple of the anti-itch (dog) and urinary distress (cats) products. They did what they said they would.
It might be worth a shot. I have linked their product page with calming/anti aggression products.
Katharina

Here is a link that might be useful: Calming formulas
annzgw
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Check out the thread below. The techniques Laurief described may work in your situation.

Here is a link that might be useful: cat aggression
jomuir
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
How are the cats getting along now?

Are they still at war? I've used Feliway but it didn't solve the problem we were having-inappropriate urination- so I can't speak to it's effectiveness.

Just hoping they're coming to a truce for your sake.
KFarrel
12 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hello! I have tried Feliaway, Calming Collars, Rescue Remedy, and Composure Chews to curb aggressive behavior. I can't say they the won't work for you, but they did not work for me. However, they are all fairly inexpensive, easy to use, and worth a shot. My advice beyond that is to see your vet, preferrable one that sees cats only and has experience with behavioral issues. Rule out medical issues and then start on meds. Mine has been on amitriptyline and we have seen some improvment, finally. Once you get past the tests to rule out medical problems the medication is not very expensive and if it works is a lifesaver.

I need some major help making a kitty decision (sorry so long!)

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