The only thing I could possibly see is: hopefully you have no problem with rodents, water bugs/roaches, spiders, etc because you're leaving such great access to food/shelter etc. Also depending on what countertop your using, the melamine coating may not adhere well with glues etc, and if there was water it may sit between the 'sandwich' and not dry out as well. (I have no idea what you mean by "the cabinet base now ties in to the countertop" - sorry.)

I didn't use the Ikea feet, we used 2x4 bases, so I can't really visualize how you do the feet.

I personally wouldn't do it because it was hard enough work doing all the install and other modifications we did. But it sounds like you've thought a lot about it, so you must have a good feel for it. And, I might add, this is not a "serious well thought out reply" because my 3 kids are just about to walk through the door!

So you would still use the IKEA feet under them? Like momof3kids, I would be really afraid of the easy access that all unwanted critters would have to all the contents of all the cabinets. I am really squeemish about critters. One reason I LOVE framless cabinets is the individual "sealed" boxes. The only way for a critter to get in is through the door or drawer. With your configuration, critters would have free run of the place.

If your worried about plumbing leaks, I'd get some of those inexpensive leak detectors and put them around under the cabinets. Make toe-kick drawers under the cabinets if you want/need extra space.

My only other concern is strength/integrity. Most framless cabinets have full bottoms and sides, thinner backs and no tops. Once the cabinets are installed and secured to each other, they are strong. With no bottoms, the sides really don't have much keeping them from moving around.

Both very good thinking IMO.
Maybe I'd best do this operation only with the sink base.
For hygiene.
As it happens, we are storing No Food on the sink wall.
Across the galley is an isolated divider wall with no plumbing, where we have food storage, so critters would have to cross the floor from somewhere to get there.

Bottom brace bars (MDF) would move to the top, so sides have those braces if the cabinet is upside down.

I could use any feet, including the Ikea ones.

Thank you!

One is I get to see if the plumbing leaks or any water is coming from other condos.

I'm still sick and stupid. I'm trying to figure this statement out?

Why do you think having an open bottom would let you see a leak in an all drawer base. If all drawers, why would it have plumbing? If the sink cab has drawers, the water would be in the drawers, not the cabinet base?

The normal ikea toe kick is removable - you could just look down there every once in a while. Or you could use those 8" tall open silvery legs?

I'm sure that a countertop installer would have a cow, kittens and possibly a couple chickens, too.

Well, unless you plan on redrilling every single hole for all the cabinet drawer slides (and have the experience and the 90° drill attachment and level to do it correctly every time) your drawers will also end up upside down. Cabinets are designed to be upright so, the fastening system is designed to distribute the weight of the countertop have to completely reengineer the fastening system to account for the stresses in the opposite direction of what they were intended.

Putting it kindly, I personally think this is pretty harebrained. You'd be better off creating some toe kick drawers to go under the cabinets as they were originally designed if you need that much extra storage space.

I figured I was just really thick but I don't get what you are gaining by doing this.

The sides are symmetrical, so the holes drilled are still good when the bottom is on top and the top on bottom.

Sides carry the weight of the countertop; the sides are still upright.

That answers the two concerns expressed immediately above ..

I have no problem thinking about getting into the toekick space through "regular" means. What I'm doing right now is considering and discussing.

This is an Ikea base cabinet both ways - where is the gain in long term storage? Behind the toe kick? You have that if they are upright and as already pointed out the toe kick is removable so you can also see any leaks. So that leaves you with the solid top. My Mom's frameless cabs have solid tops so no harm there.

{{!gwi}}

Fabritec cabinets with solid 5\8 tops:

The light dawns - you could take out the drawers to access the space behind the removable toe kicks if the bottom was open. So there really isn't any more space there is just another way to get at it. Why is this an advantage? I'm with lwo I think removing the solid bottom will have an impact on the load transfer. The cross braces are just particleboard.

Thank you for posting the picture. You are right, one motive is to use the space under the cabinet. Removing the bottom drawer is pro'lly the only way to get at stuff stored there.

Ikea sells Metal cross braces for 30" and 36" sizes. Add on's. The OSB sides still take all the weight, whether there is a top or bottom plane or not. Steel braces make a box square & strong.

So far, all this is, is exploratory. It's discussing, considering etc. Implications, consequences, ramifications, etc.

I think someone mentioned it up there, but is there a reason you don't want toekick drawers? There are some on Ikeafans - people there seem to be able to do anything with those cabinets!

If you want a solid top, you could probably just buy panels from Ikea and have solid tops and bottoms. Ikea sells everything piece by piece, so I think you could probably just buy a panel (if not a bottom piece, I'm sure you could buy a cover panel or an oven panel or something).

I'm not sure about the water leaks. Are you afraid that water will leak from the condo next door and ruin your floor before you notice, because you can't see under the cabinets? Is this something that has happened before? This is something I would have never considered, but then again, its been a long time since I've shared walls.

Have you asked this on Ikeafans.com? They have an entire forum on mods and have a lot of super-creative folks "hacking" Ikea stuff. I know I have seen many mods to make toekick drawers to access that "wasted" space. Odds are if this is a viable idea, it'll have been discussed there.

This forum is different from that one. It has higher quality discussion. That one is more appropriate for a limited set of queries, that neophyte future readers will think of as good ideas to implement themselves, whereas my query is totally a personal quest to consider something -- and perhaps also do it --- but ikeafans is not a place to get any support for such a "wild idea."

My sense of their future at Ikeafans is that they will have to prepare a new structure. Ikeafans is not a discussion forum where you can discuss something: it is mostly a place to go get tips about a project, and it is run by people with titles who moderate a lot and cause a lot of work for themselves since they direct the flow of thinking on a thread. They insist they are friendly. Their state of mind is not great. They seem harried.

Hope this is a shared vision in this forum. Here we have a great resource: self-recruiting, self-selecting and self-upgrading.

Well, I've been a lurker over at ikeafans for a long time and I certainly don't see what you see there, that's for sure.

David, I think you'd likely be happier with toekick drawers - so much easier to access that extra space, and you wouldn't have to remove potentially heavy drawer contents to do it, or negotiate the frame & upper drawer slides when loading/unloading that hidden base space.

For the purpose of checking for leaks, wouldn't it be slightly more ergonomical to simply draw out a toekick drawer to see the floor?

Still not really seeing the advantage and I still think manufacturers generally only use cross braces at the top because any countertop will reinforce their integrity and as you pointed out the sides carry the weight of the countertop or anything on it. On the bottom the cross braces are literally floating with nothing to support them front or back and top or bottom. On a wide cabinet I would worry it will be very weak in the middle but as the drawers will transfer weight to the sides I doubt this would cause the box to fail but is it worth the chance for what you are gaining?

The two points above are good, and I can address them easily too. First, steel cross braces exist. I wish I had mentioned them in the opening post. They are provided by Ikea. Second, I do see an advantage (for me).

Thank you for the other image showing cabinet boxes with closed tops. I wish I had mentioned that myself.

The basic idea is to cut an opening in the floor panel. Since it's all drawers I don't need the floor panel as a floor to hold stuff.

The idea of toekick drawers is one I don't want to do. All that wasted space taken up by all that wood and steel in a device that costs money too. Plus, it forces you to lose space behind the cabinet legs. At least ten or twenty cubic inches. ( : - ) kidding, levity.)

My drawers will be 15 inch high pullouts (i.e. a deep and a shallow drawer screwed to a 15"h drawer front). I now have to see how much air space I'll have between the drawer backs. That gap is where I would reach through to pick up stuff.

Before the day I install the cabinets I will have studied the options. That's the goal.
: - ) You have all been very helpful. Thank you!

I think my comment about ikeafans applies to their mod and install forums where as a matter of reducing risk, my queries have been "addressed" by telling me it is not good to consider things that newbies might later find out about and not be steered away from... You know, in order for ikeafans to adorn their site with the Ikea logo they must follow some corporate direction. I've seen this before in one of the other "world's friendliest" sites that promote one corporate entity in particular, and they get testy when you discuss doing something not in their normal range. Still, I like them, and I hope they succeed at handling their growth. -dr

As everyone else has mentioned, this doesn't seem that it would bring that much benefit, and I'm guessing it would invalidate the warranty, weaken the cabinets and make foot placement hard. Since the toe kicks are so easy to take off and on, the space really is accessible, if that's what you are looking for.

There's a lot of cross-posting between here and Ikeafans, so you're probably getting some of the same advice from the same folks, if you already asked this question there - I couldn't tell from your posts.

It just occurred to me - can't you put the cabinets themselves on legs and skip the whole "toekick" idea altogether? It would be a fine look.

That way you'd have clear view of the floor and open storage, just like under any other furniture. I'm rather fond of the look; too many American kitchens have those endlessly marching toekicks when legs might serve just as well.

Setting aside some of what has already been said:

Flipping the cabinets could make fitting the cabinets to the wall awkward. When you place a cabinet it's rarely on a square level surface so a certain amount of shimming or cutting is required. By creating a "box" at the top it makes it almost impossible to remove an eight inch from the top in order to level a countertop (something that is quite easy with the regular status of things). Also it means that that each cabinet needs to be EXACTLY in place and in plan or it will cause pressure on the counter top. I think it would make installation more difficult over all.

As far as ongoing I can see possible issues there two. For instance, laminate ctops often attach from below, which is iffy when the boxes are closed on top. Other things require below access as well such as sinks. Even if you went with granite you decrease the ability to salvage it later either for reuse or simply resale.

Just thoughts.

So far we have "hairbrained" and "wild". I quite frankly think this is a really STUPID idea. Maybe the folks over at Ikeafans aren't so far off in their advice?

The first thing you do when you try this install is you void the warranty on the cabinets. They aren't meant to be installed that way, and there are structural risks in doing so for yourself, loved ones and subsequent buyers.

Aside from that, you're creating all sorts of extra work for yourself. Opening the bottoms of the cabinets means you liable to infestation of 4 and 8 legged creatures. You don't need the "top" of the cabinet to secure your counter top. The steel braces Ikea sells are not structural members - they go under the middle drawer divider keep it from sagging - you can't use this under the cabinet, or above the divider.

There are better ways to handle this, but you seem to not like those - I guess, as they say, "knock yourself out!"

What do you want to hide down there? Drugs? Money?

I had the same thought redschas. Sounds like David is trying to create a place to hide something. If this is so, David, shame on you for taking up the time of sincere people trying to help you. In a way, you have made everyone accomplices and that is a slimy thing to do.

Do you want to flip this upside down for the sake of installing them flipped upside down? Or is it to achieve a certain goal?

Assuming that your goals are the "Advantages" you've listed up top i.e. other people's plumbing leaks (somehow), storage, and/or full substrate for the counter then, the only meritorious one of the lot is the full counter substrate. However, even that is countermanded by the fact that you will impair the structural stability of the cabinet because the COM (center of mass) of the cabinet will be over a base which is not constrained to be rigid - since the two (formerly top-braces) braces are not connected. They're also just MDF and not particularly strong, I don't believe, unlike the solid, one piece particleboard.

A better solution if you want a full sub-counter is to install the cabinets normally and then either insert a plywood sub-top or buy spare cabinets and use another cabinet's floor as your cabinet's top. Definitely give your cabinet a proper base, however.

As others have said, if detecting plumbing leaks are what you seek, you can do that just as easily by removing the toekick periodically and peaking in.

If storage is what you need, you get a better solution with the toe-kick drawers or again just removing the toekick and shoving your stash under the cabinets (probably better obscured, if drugs or money, besides). You're fundamentally limited in how large an item you can squeeze into the toe-kick area in reaching through a hole in the bottom under an upper drawer and an open lower drawer. Unless you plan on removing all the drawers each time you want to reach your toe-kick stash.

Hopefully whatever you want to horde down through holes at the bottom of your cabinet won't be impacted by your neighbours leaky plumbing.

"You're fundamentally limited in how large an item you can squeeze into the toe-kick area..."
Too much, too large, and he'll transcend from misdemeanor to something more felonious.

I agree with the assertions here, that until we know exactly what needs to be stored down there (and what, indeed, will survive the assumptive leaks-from-neighbors and gnawing infestation of critters and beasties), it would be impossible to help this situation.

Think about this: whatever "needs" to be stored down there, it seems that toe-kick drawers aren't sufficient. Or are they too obvious that they exist? (We're doing toe kick drawers and I hardly think $30 per drawer are that prohibitive. Yes, you do lose the possible space from the legs, but that only eats up about 2" with clearance on each side. So what's the *real* reason here?)