Well, you know it's never made sense to me that he could have eaten two cans of cat food without defecating and NOT be constipated. I guess your next step now depends on how much more money you're able to invest in diagnostics. I'd be inclined to insist on another ultrasound tomorrow to see what impact, if any, those bowel movements have on the results. I'd also want another blood test to see if passing all of that waste has helped bring his numbers down.

I still don't think you have as many answers as you need to make well informed decisions about kitty. I am VERY glad, though, that he finally was able to pass some stool and that he seems to be feeling better.

If you stopped the cypro, you might consider giving him a dose now and seeing if that helps trigger his appetite under these new and improved circumstances.

Laurie

The vets that you saw, were either of them specialists? What type of clinic was it?

It seems odd to me that the first vet would decide euthanasia that easily. If you search on Feline CRF Support - you will see that there is a support group that may be able to assist you more.

Neither vet is a specialist, but the guy who did the ultrasound I believe has some kind of expertise in radiology stuff. He came to the second vet's clinic, performed the ultrasound there, and interpreted the results.

The first vet I am not happy with at all, and I don't plan on going back there again with this or any other pet. They are pretty much your basic neighborhood clinic that does vaccinations, spaying/neutering, grooming, and prescribing meds.

The second vet has the same sort of general pratice, but he seems a lot more up on the latest techniques and information. He was very willing to treat my cat for CRF, but with the probable cancer he felt there was nothing beneficial that could be done. He's not against force feeding per se -- for example, if the cat has fatty liver disease, then feeding through a nasal tube, he says, is the way to go. But I asked him specifically about whether I should try to feed through a syringe or any of that, and he said no.

I'll call him tomorrow and see if he has any thoughts on how things are going.

Kitty is still resting comfortably. I don't see how he can survive much longer without eating, but he doesn't appear to be in pain, his breathing is good, and he purrs a lot when I pet him.

I would ask the vet about continuing the valium since it helped her appetite, but I can't say I would give cypro/bayril again. My pets rarely could tolerate the drug and here are the side effects from a drug site: There are potential side effects for cats too, including vomiting, diarrhea, elevated liver enzymes, seizures and depression. Other potential side effects in cats include lethargy, vocalization, aggression and vision loss. In rare cases, the use of Baytril in cats has been reported to adversely effect the retina sometimes leading to vision impairment, even blindness.

I agree that what you're seeing doesn't warrant a trip to the ER tonight, but I'd call tomorrow and update them.

The cypro I mentioned is not Baytril but cyproheptadine which is commonly used in CRF cats to improve appetite. Harriet tried cypro with no apparent effect before kitty had the bowel movements, but now that kitty is no longer constipated, it just might help get him eating again.

Harriet, what a strange turn of events. I wish I had any information or ideas to share. Lacking that, I wanted to send you my support and well wishes again. I hope you get some answers.

The bottom line right now is that my cat is just refusing to eat.

He's acting like he is sick in that he's withdrawn to the basement (though he's not hiding -- he has been spending most of his time sleeping on the couch down there), he doesn't want to go out on the screened porch (always his favorite activity, besides eating), and seems very weak. He doesn't have any of the obvious symptoms of the two illnesses he's been diagnosed with.

But there's got to be a reason he's shutting down. Is it my place to put him through any trauma? He's the equivalent of an 85-year-old human. Maybe he knows what's best for himself. This morning, I managed to get about a half teaspoon of beef baby food into him by gently holding his head and pushing a spoon with the food against his lips (also gently). He licked it off and didn't cry or act like it hurt him to swallow it, but he looked at me like I was totally violating him. I left the dish with a little bit of the food in it next to him and went off to do something else, and when I came back he was leaning away from the dish as if it was toxic.

All through this business, I have been reading whatever I can find about the various issues -- renal failure, cancer in cats, and anorexia in cats. Some of the accounts by people about what they have done to treat their very sick cats has seemed to me over the top; they were really making the animals suffer because they couldn't bear to make the decision to euthanize. I was reading one last night where the poor cat's TONGUE was decaying and about to fall off (cat already had CRF, needed fluids, needed to be force fed), and this person said euthanasia was not an option. Now, that's sick, IMHO.

I'm sitting here at work debating about whether to call the vet again. I have the number of another vet who does house calls (who would also come to the house to put him to sleep, if it comes to that). I'm willing to go that route if it means kitty does not have to suffer. It's been almost a week since he's eaten, aside from a taste or two we've managed to coax into him.

Well, Harriet, the fact is that kitty IS demonstrating classic symptoms of CRF - corroboratory bloodwork and inappetance.

The way I feel about it is that if you're going to keep kitty alive, you have an obligation to help him any way you can. It simply isn't humane to allow him to die of starvation or to become septic, both of which are very painful ways to die. If you don't believe that treating him will serve any positive purpose - and it may not - then euthanize him now.

If you think there are still treatment options that may help, do them now. I don't remember your even mentioning having tried one of the acid reducers to help reduce the nauseous feelings that may be preventing him from eating. Have you tried Zantac 75? Have you tried cypro since he passed the stool? Are you still giving him daily fluids? If you're not ready to euthanize, I think you should be trying these things to see if they'll help.

You said it yourself, kitty is shutting down. It's time to either let him go or dig back in and do everything you can to address his medical issues. You have to decide which way to go, but sitting back and waiting for him to die is not a gentle or kind option.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but kitty is weakening and going into seclusion. It's time for you to make a decision.

Laurie

Laurie, we're continuing to give him about 100 ml of fluids daily, and he's drinking some water.

Sorry about the mixup Laurie...:(

I totally agree with laurie's post above. She's showing the classic signs my pets have shown right before I let them go. Since she hasn't eaten in a week she's dying of starvation in addition to the CRF.

What a lot of articles regarding CRF don't mention is the buildup of toxins that causes a lot of pain thruout the body. My vet-internist told me that these toxins also cause severe pressure/headache in the brain.

I'm sorry............but I think it's time.

annz -- yes, I have come to that realization. I have made an appointment for tomorrow morning. The vet is going to come to the house.

I think this is the kindest path to take.

Harriet, I am sorry about all that you are dealing with. I think you are making a sound choice and can see in your heart that it is time.

I am in complete agreement with what you said in that longer post of yours above. At a point people lose sight of quality of life and focus on quantity. I will not do those things to my CRF cat as she progressively gets worse. I will not put her through excessive procedures or force feed her- my only goal is to provide her with a good quality of life by way of reasonable management for as long as a higher power will allow.

I feel very strongly that the energy of the animals we love goes on to a different plane of existence and that we will see them again. Our missing them is only temporary.

Many, many hugs to you.

Q