I would not keep the religious stained glass window but I would make sure it went to a good home. I would use the money to buy something else that would fit the home age/style.

Absolutely I would keep the stained glass windows, especially if you like them. They are probably loaded
with old antique art glass worth a fortune.
Good luck with the purchase.

Well, when we went to look another couple walked up at the same time and I was a bit annoyed because I thought the listing agent was doubling up on a showing. We let that couple go first (and the listing agent told us they were an hour late). She later said that all they talked about were things they would take out or change so it was not likely the owner would be interested in their offer. He is not expecting someone to keep things like these added windows, but I thought that they added a layer of history to the house.

I would ABSOLUTELY keep the stained glass. As you pointed out...it's part of the house's history. Not to mention...I lived in Cincinnati for a time. I like old stained glass. Beveled glass as well. ;^)

If you like it, then keep it! Personally, I would keep the stained glass.

I would keep the stained glass if I liked it, otherwise I'd sell it.

If the WT's could be drycleaned without falling apart I would keep them, again if I liked them. They would have to be cleaned tho or I could not use them as I am sensitive to odors and dust and there's a high ick factor for me in using other people's stuff without cleaning. I do use pre-owned items all the time but they must be able to be cleaned.

I think the decision to keep or discard existing elements depends on whether those elements work for you. I happen to love stained glass so I would probably find somewhere to use it even though it might not be in its original placement. As for window treatments, if they are in good condition and the color/style works for the new design, I would definitely keep them. Custom window treatments are expensive!

If you like the stained glass keep it. Not too keen on the old drapes. I would take a picture of them and maybe have similar ones made.

I would make my offer and it is no one's business if you change the house after you make your purchase. For the present owner to make such a demand is illogical. Once it is yours you do what YOU want/like. It is a good lesson on what to say and what not to say in front of a realtor or owner. What you do with your new home is your business.

I guess this is a game of trust; the owner has no way of enforcing that things are kept the same (unless it's somehow written into the contract, maybe?), but is trusting the intentions and honesty of those making an offer. Perhaps a good liar could get away with gutting it after the sale was final.

However, I understand the desire to keep artistic and historical features intact, even if it's not practical for the own keep it. Thus, why not at least try to find a buyer who appreciates these things? It's the same thing Nicole Curtis is trying to do on Rehab Addict with keeping the integrity of historical homes.

I might have a hard time with religious stained glass windows...depending on the actual depictions...but jterrilynn's suggestion of finding them a good home sounds good. Other historical elements, I'd definitely consider it. Sometimes people need a reminder that newer isn't necessarily better.

I am interested in the house as it presents itself. Most lookers are interested in the house as square footage and location. So I am not really asking as a "vote" just out of curiosity--one doesn't often come across a house with stained glass windows installed later as a decorative feature or intense, period appropriate drapery. (although a house around the corner sold several times with its 100 year old drapery intact until the newest owners spent a fortune reproducing it)

I agree that it is technically illogical for the current owner to worry about what happens to the house after, but it is also his business to either sell or not sell based upon whether he likes the potential buyer. He does not need to sell the house to anyone at all really, he already lives somewhere else where it is easier for him to get around.

I *might* be able to sell to someone I didn't like in this market, but I am not sure. If I had a choice I don't think I would, either. I know a couple or realtors who have been in situations where the seller has finally said..."I am sorry, I can't sell you my house, I don't want you living in it." So, it does happen.

I should say he isn't trying to stipulate that the windows stay or that the house remain intact as he lived in it. He has dealers lined up for any or all of the artifacts in the house. He does not want to sell to someone who is going to turn it into a series of drywall boxes.

Palimpsest, is this a house you have shown us already? Is it bad luck to give us a peek? I understand if you want to wait and I know it will be worth the wait for me to see. Wonder if it has signs of an old brick kitchen in the basement.

If the PO's decorative elements were beautiful & fit the house style/my style, sure!

Those stain glass windows sound interesting. Were they originally installed in a church or temple? I wonder if they are salvage items & have some local historical importance.

Best of luck to you, pal! Will say some prayers for you that you finally have a deal go your way.

So it's architectural integrity he's worried about? I think you've got a good shot at this one, Pal!

When we bought our house years ago there was a small statue of St. Francis in the backyard. We kept it there (still have it today) as we are Catholic and appreciated it both for artistic and spiritual reasons. If I were to sell the house, I would not expect anyone else to keep it--esp. if they were of a different faith. So, regarding the stained glass, most likely I would keep it for the same. Religious items are very personal so I can see giving seller option to either keep or, if they don't feel comfortable with it in their home, asking to have it donated/sold to someone who can appreciate it.

As for the drapes, I would not feel strongly either way. Depending on style and condition, I'd either keep, donate or throw out.

About 5-6 years ago when it was a sellers market, often times buyers would write personal letters to the sellers trying to get chosen to buy the house. As we were trying to buy a house at that time, we also wrote a few letters. In reality, what most often seemed to happen was the buyer was picked based on some behind the seens deal between the agents and then the other buyers just used to get the buyer selected to anty up...

I haven't shown this one, no. It is old enough to have an original basement kitchen, but it was probably a stove in the hearth rather than open. The "modern" kitchen and baths are tucked at the very back of the house.

I was asked to write a letter because I really am interested in the integrity of the house, and the owner has already turned down offers where the intent was to "modernize" it. My offer is actually low, but the seller's realtor encouraged us to offer regardless because virtually all the lookers (and apparently there has been at least one a day) picture the house's future with a dumpster out front.

Palimpsest, honestly if I were you making an offer, that is *exactly* what I would do - I'd write a letter explaining your background, your past projects and your 'bona fides' wrt why you deserve to be the next caretaker of this house, that you'll figure out *exactly* what's right to do with it to honor its history but not let it strangle its present, etc. Any owner of a historic house could not be luckier than to have you be the purchaser, IMO. Maybe we can write you letters of recommendation (don't worry, I'm kidding : ))!

I not only kept the stained glass but I also kept the 120 year old draperies. Yes I'd keep them, despite the fact that I'm not religious...and yes, telling the PO that we would do so helped the sale. When it comes to a historical house you often buy pride in ownership and a personal need to "do right" by the house.

I would make contact to share your love of the architecture. Personally it would mean the world to me with this house as it did the previous owners. I wouldn't sell (If I didn't have to) to someone I knew who would take the architectural integrity out of the joint.

I'll write your letter LOL If this is an old house snob I'm definately in their club!

A seller has no control over what a buyer does with a house. Cut the cord!!
Once you sell a house, you have to move on and not dwell on whether or not someone is going to love your drapes and windows.

If you buy it, you can keep anything and everything you like. I would not keep old drapes unless they were silk with real gold thread ;)
I would put most things on CL and buy new/clean finishes for the house.

I would say yes, but the real reason I'm chiming in is to tell you that I've been educated and entertained by your posts for a long time, and I really hope you get this house.

Good luck!

If I didn't intend to keep the stained glass, I would probably not buy the house.

DH and I were walking in a neighborhood of old, waterfront homes today and talking about the great responsibility that comes with purchasing such a home. (lottery dreams!) There were a couple that were quite obviously completely restored, but they'd lost something in the transition. I feel like if you can't replace the windows with windows that "go", then you shouldn't buy the property. If I can get out there before the snow on Friday (ugh) I will take some photos to show the difference.

Anyway, Pal, I'll be hoping that this is the right house for you.

Oh, and I hope that someday I have the luxury of choosing the "right" buyers for this house that we built together and have lived in for 22 years.

Beth P.

My very first instinct would be to look at the original items( stained glass, etc.)in the most positive light I could muster. I'd feel sentimental about the old place retaining her early virtues, and also feel it was the correct thing to do. That said, I'd not keep them if they bothered me at all: i.e. "ewwww that's ugly", or," not being of the Whoostertasian sect, I can live without the stained glass motif of a Whooster eating a live goat" :>)

As for the owner refusing to sell, I'm not in r.e. but believe if there is a contract signed with an agent he must perform if his asking price( not in your case, I know) is met.
I was somewhat taken aback, and a bit sad to see Sarah (Sarah's House) quickly remove the stained glass in her latest redo. I realize everything in the new house was to be fresh and light, but I'd have left that one window as a nod to its history and add a touch of whimsy.
Sending you good vibes that this time is The Time!

I would absolutely keep the stained glass....and yes, please write a letter. That's something that I've always done, every time we've put in an offer~~ just because that's "me".
Good luck and PLEASE don't change your LR, I love it!

I would absolutely have no problems writing such a letter, and FWIW, I'd definitely be keeping the stained glass and drapery if they were in decent shape and I liked them.

It's getting harder and harder to find old houses with that kind of history intact.

I fully understand where the seller is coming from, as I see you do. As a seller, I definitely would want to sell to a buyer that respected the historic integrity of the property, particularly with it's original features. As a seller, I would AND HAVE asked for letters from potential buyers of the type you're preparing.

As a seller, I am clear that once the sale is closed, the buyer can do whatever they want to the home. But as the seller, I can avoid getting to closing by NOT entering a contract. Plain and simple.

As a buyer, I would and have kept all original features in old homes that we've bought. We've also restored features of homes that POs took out and we did it with historical materials and techniques. To do accurate restorations, I've spent hours in historical libraries and tracking down previous owners and their heirs so that I could obtain original photos of our home.

There is no way I'd take out the windows - they are "of the house." But then again, I'd never live in anything built after 1960 either.

I feel there is nothing more beautiful than a mix of old and new. I love older homes where the HO keeps some - many of the gracious, interesting details and then introduces his or her's new things. It's not easy to come away with a cohesive look, but when done right.....

That said, write a letter to the HO, it can't hurt and best wishes, I'm crossing my fingers (and toes) for you!

if you take the time to write a nice, thoughtful letter, i would think that the house will be yours! i can't imagine that there will be too many other buyers for this particular house that have your decorating intent/interest/integrity and passion for architecture and design!

i would without a doubt keep the stained glass...i can't imagine disliking it enough to remove it. the drapes, i would have to like... i probably would not keep them if a smoker had lived there- but if they were clean, high enough quality cloth to still be in good shape and i liked them, i would keep them too.

If you get the house (fingers crossed for you) and opt not to keep the windows, you might consider giving them to him as a gift.

If he's particularly attached to the windows, and not just the house as a whole entity, it may be greatly appreciated. Someone did something similar with a house my grandmother sold. That was about 50 years ago and she still talks about it.

I would keep it IF I found the religous idea favorable to me. There is a door in our house w/ a stained glass inset that could easily be perceived as a cross. I love it. If it were of another religious aspect that I was not comfortable w/ I would not have a problem selling or donating it.

I would keep the stained glass. The curtains? I can't answer that without seeing them.

After all the final papers are signed and this place is officially yours (crossing my fingers for you)perhaps you can ask him if you ever did decide to take the stained glass down, would they like you to contact them. It sounds like it isn't original to the house, and the current owners are probably the ones who put it up there. If so, maybe they would want to use it in their next place...IF you ever wanted to take it down in the future that is.

Looking forward to your good news.

Gad I knew there was something about you I liked les lol.

To be clear on the drapes....I certainly wouldn't keep drapes I didn't love or drapes in bad condition. Even the gorgeous chenille porteriers that came with this house were under debate for sime time. I told the PO that I planned on having them professionally cleaned by a conservator and then storing them as we have cats, a dog and had planned on having our five year old and a pack of toddlers around so I didn't want to see them damaged.

We still have the herd but didn't add the toddlers and yet when I restored this rooms I removed them thinking I was going to reproduce them in modern fabric to protect the antiques. Turns out that's danged hard modern fabric to find (it's very very thick...like a carpet almost) and so they sat in their bid...I finished restoring the rooms and something was "off". I hung them again...that was what was missing...the buffers to the hall (which flank six foot entries to each room) so there they hang.

They are a faded version of what they once were and are missing a tassel or two at the base but their heavy faded gold presence just seems to go with the house. So I guess they get to stay.

I'd approach any textile left in a home the same way. Shredding silk or heavy florals would be difficult for me to keep but historically accurate, quality pieces? I'd keep those if I could.

By the way...church windows can have significant value pal (as I'm sure you know) so if you do get the place be sure to research them for insurance purposes.

Leah, a seller is under no obligation to sell until they sign a contract with a buyer. The agency contract does not require it.

I do agree with Mr Ph up there quite often, and in a modern home still agree...let go of the thing! But when it comes to historical properties I feel quite differently. I would not require that the drapes be maintained because that's something easy to fix, but if I had an inkling they would go and they were antique textiles I'd be sure to get them to a museum verses seeing them in the trash. If I had any knowledge they were going to tear out an original fireplace or the ceiling medallions, etc...the historical value in our home...I'd send any offer packing. We have a responsability to this house that we assumed when we purchased it and as with the sellers before us, we take that seriously. So seriously that we agreed with the city when the put stringent regulations on what can ibe done to the place (which one day may haunt me lol) but at least the original owner won't because he sees how much we love the history in his home.

Pal...cut and paste that fir a letter lol. That's exactly the kind of sentimental goober old home lovers like to see. Heh heh

Since I buy almost everything from 2nd hand shops (previously loved or not loved) I would have no problem keeping those elements I liked. It sounds wonderful. I have always wanted to buy a beautiful old home, but alas, I don't have the money. I will count my blessings though. I really hope you get it if it is a good thing for you. If you do I hope we can look forward to seeing pics.

crossing my fingers for you too. and if I liked the POs stuff, and the condition was of my liking, then yes.
good luck.

Pal, I think this could be the one. Please don't post photos until you close!

I wouldn't tear out historic changes that were sensible and beautiful for the sake of restoring to original condition, so I would keep the stained glass.

Well I guess I'm in the minority about keeping the religious stained glass. If I were buying a period home I would most certainly do my research and stay with the integrity of the home in everyway possible. However, religious stained glass is a very particular type of Art. I am not an art connoisseur but believe the right art in a home is art you must Love, it is more important than the right chair or the right table and even more so IMO because it affects mood. If I went to Europe and bought a medieval structure and it had large pieces of art, glass, canvas or walls influenced by or depicting the black plague and dancing with death or the later interpretations of mythological beasts, well it would all find a good home elsewhere. Your question was "would you keep" but really if you love love love it then it should stay stay stay. If you do not love the stained glass art you should not live with it anymore than a wall color you really hate.

Oops, P.S. Just incase I get misinterpreted; I'm speaking of art not fixed architectural elements or other such things that class the home.

I don't think there are any right or wrong answers.

In my particular location they tend to enforce the "attached to the house, it stays, rule", so since the curtains are attached to the wall (there are actually pelmets) and the windows are also attached, a buyer could insist that they stay as part of the contract.

I did not get a really close look at how the windows were installed but it appears that there is a false wall and frame built over the exterior windows.

This is a house that I will have to look at more than once, because the initial visit is a bit of sensory overload

I think I would keep the windows. It would depend on if I liked the drapes or not, but if they were nice and well kept, I would probably work around them.

Is your place on the market Palimpsest?

I am obsessing over a place and thinking of putting my house on the market quickly. Kind of freaking me out. :) How to sell a house quickly in this market and keep a deal gong on another place. UGH! The good news is that the other place has been for sale for awhile. They keep slowly dropping the price.

Without seeing the house and the WT and stained glass, I can't say if I'd keep them or not.

I find it strange that the seller is so involved with the buyers. We have bought and sold two homes before building this house and in both cases we had no contact with the sellers/buyers before closing. I have never looked at a house where the seller was present. When selling our houses, it was pretty clear that we were not to be there when it was shown. Maybe I misunderstood - is they being sold by the owner - or by a RE agent? Good luck - I hope it works out for you!!

tina

Old house owners are a different breed. They don't see things the same way. A house isn't just a structure. It's a piece of history with a soul and a life of it's own. Those who live in them are caretakers. They may change things a bit to make it a usable space but over all they take great care to maintain the original footprint and character of the house.
It's very hard for someone who doesn't love old houses to understand the connection a owner and house can have. Old houses are not for everybody. You have to have a certain amount of love for history to begin with, a good sense of humor and the ability to adapt to the house rather than having the house adapt to you. If what you want is a cookie cutter house with everything perfect and a open floor plan than you don't belong in a old house.

The seller was not present, although I have been to several showings in the past year where the seller was present when we went through with our agent. A couple houses I didn't mind, a couple it turned me off. I haven't really liked it even when I see the people looking at my place by accident.

At this showing his RE agent was present. She does listen to the feedback, so he is kind of present by proxy. Many of these houses do get gutted and turned into drywall boxes on the inside. This, I think, is what he would like to prevent--I don't feel he wants the house to be an unchanging museum, though.