I have an OTR microwave *gasp*, a full depth fridge that doesn't line up with my countertops, a 12" over the fridge cabinet that is empty b/c I'll never be able to reach it & a stock SS sink without a grate in it. Oh well - life goes on!

The only appliances we're buying are a modest range hood and a portable induction burner. The old appliances are white 30 inchers and that's fine. So are the new sinks. Rimmed ones to sit on new laminate countertops.

New cupboards are plain honey colored oak, I think.

Have no recessed lights in this new space.

I like this thread...it's kind of like the quirky kitch*ens thread...a reminder that individuality and functionality are both good things and that we don't need to conform to the pictures in the magazines.

I agree, warmfridge!

Oh, and we're not adding recessed lights either.

And I have to apologize. I reread my earlier post, and I sounded disgustingly self-congratulatory. "My contractor thought my choices were beautiful." Yikes! I'm worried that my choices are overload for my space, and apparently my anxiety leaks out most obnoxiously.

No cab over fridge. TV is there for now. If I don't like it, there is another hook up on the other side of the room.
White laminate counters. NO backsplash. I may do one later.
No island, no peninsula. Genuine old light fixtures. The beadboard ceiling with 1x4 trim boards. Vinyl floor I already had.
Reading through these posts tonight, I was really surprised to find so many people who didn't have the magazine kitchen. When I first came here I wasn't sure I'd ever show my kitchen. Today is the first real totally finished day except for the finish work I have left and the rearranging of cabinet contents which will likely go on for a long time. I stayed under budget.

I am so enjoying this thread. I am mainly a lurker but this prompted me to post. :) We are just finishing up our house-it has been nearly 2 years and mostly DIY since Oct. 08. I have planned to post our kitchen when it is done but was a little worried because I did a couple things that were contrary to what would likely be recommended here...Our houseplans had a perfectly normal layout and plan but I had to tweak it to fit us and now we have our main sink on an interior wall with a 'window' into our foyer over it. I ran cabs all the way down to the counter on this same run so I have very little perimeter countertop. I don't like stuff on counters so I will have 'counters behind doors' if you will. We have a bi-level island and it is not a rectangle. This worked to get a larger prep counter and make a nice walkway around the island and not through the work aisles. Oh, and my kitchen is 'small' for our house only 12x9 in the main area, I like everything to be close when I am cooking, but I have a nice walk in pantry-in our back hall-where I like it and alot of cabinets in that back hall for additional storage as well. We won't have a table in the nook area, it will be a cozy couch and chair and eventually a built in desk.
pickle2-you sounded fine! Your kitchen sounds wonderful!

My coffee pot, toaster, and toaster oven are on the counter in plain view, Gasp, but I decided if I want to live in a museum, I should move to a museum !!

Pickle, you're not obnoxious!! If he said it he said it! I got the point, and I'm sure the rest of the forum dwellers did too.

pickle2,
I wish u would design my kitchen! I have scrolled back, what is the problem?

This is a great thread --never dreamed there were so many rebels out there!

My biggest "go against the grain" thing is that I prefer lower cabinets over drawers. (had the drawers in a former house, and fitting pots and pans in was like working a puzzle) And this time I'm not even having roll-out trays: just your basic two door, one shelf cabinets.

Other crimes against grain would be:
-- two wall ov*ns under counters instead of stacked
-- very small island (4' x 2')
-- narrower than usual aisles
-- nothing BUT pot lights and under cabs (no pend*nts -- we're doing a very special range hood and a pend*nt light just blocks the view)
-- dark colored quartz countertops
-- cast iron sink (Kohler Cane Sugur-- oh my it's beautiful)
-- Island will be cherry with dark countertop (heard that described as a visual black hole)

It's good to know others have the same hesitations about posting finished pics as I have had because of the "against the grain" choices they have made. But I've never seen anyone post anything but WOW and other nice comments on a finished kitchen. My reno won't get started till mid April, but I hope by the end of May I'll have something to post on the finished Kitchen Blog!

My carpenter held my upper cabinets against the wall for me to tell him what height felt right. When I discovered this forum I learned that the height I chose, 15" or so above the counter, is lower than the "rules" say they should be. But I just love them and will never put up with unreachable upper shelves again. (It also turns out there is no building code that regulates this height; it's a matter of convention and standardized mass-produced cabinetry.)

I also have stacks of pull-out bins with no cabinet door covering them up, which some folks apparently find ugly. But my kitchen's a working space; I don't see the point of it looking like -- or pretending to be -- the living room. :-)

Hmmm...I think many of you are missing the point of many of the recommendations here...
Corner range...are you kidding? That's something that's often recommended here! Ditto corner sinks. It's just that as with everything, there are pros/cons and we like to be sure everyone knows them. Decisions should be informed decisions, not blind...and for that you need all the information, not just what you want to hear or the "good news" while ignoring the "bad news". That's one of the reasons my posts are often long...explaining why something will/won't work or why something else is recommended.
Zones, etc....you'd be surprised how many of you have zones that think you don't!
No window treatments??? Have you looked at the kitchens here? Many do not have them...I know I don't...I only have them where I need to block the sun/heat (like bedrooms & western exposures in the mid-Atlantic summer heat) or for privacy's sake.
Realizing that some kitchens are for empty-nesters & some for families or single vs multi worker kitchen...hence the DW in the Prep Zone issue is often brought up for families or multi-worker kitchens. It may not be an issue for you if you're so organized that cleanup is never done at the same time as prepping/cooking & that all the dishes have been put away prior to prepping/cooking...or...if you're the only worker, ever, in your kitchen..

In general, advice is given for "best case scenario" and then refined to what will actually work in a given situation both physically and aesthetically and based on how the kitchen will be used. I don't know about you, but when I'm planning something, I like to know what's the optimal situation, how I might be able to get there, the pros/cons, compromises, etc. The problems we often run into are (1) people are resistant to change or something different than what they or their parents know/knew, (2) it's often too late when someone comes here (how often have we heard "the walls are up, we can't change them along w/doorways, windows, plumbing, etc." and then they expect a miracle to occur), (3) some people just want validation that what they have is perfect...they don't want to hear anything negative, (4) if someone makes a mistake it's often very hard to admit it and they rationalize it away into a "good thing". We're all subject to the feelings/actions of all 4 things I listed...it's the ability to eventually recognize them in ourselves and how we handle that realization that's important.

We're all different and like different things...and that's a good thing. But to come here claiming the Forum is inflexible, etc. is doing a disservice to those of us who take time out to help...to show people there just may be a better way to do something or that there is a way to do something at all.

It also reeks of one of two things...(1) you came here and didn't like what you heard and are rationalizing or (2) you really haven't read as much as you think you have...or at least you didn't understand it.

Many of you came here asking for opinions and those of us who have experience have given it...don't discount that advice/experience just b/c you don't like it or it doesn't match yours... But, also know that if you have a special circumstance that's different than many, mention that along w/your advice and know that that "special circumstance" may be why something may not work for you.

So many things in most of the lists I read were untrue... especially taken out of context.

I'm very tired after a very long day and am looking forward to another one tomorrow so maybe I'm overly sensitive tonight, but this thread makes me think that maybe I'm wasting my time answering people honestly and trying to come up w/ways to get them what they want and still have a functional kitchen that's fun and not work (in the negative sense) to cook, bake, and even play in!

Buehl, I love and admire your patience and conern, please lead me to your finished kitchen pictures!

buehl ~You should absolutely NOT feel you are wasting your time! ~ Your posts are not only excellent and helpful, but so well written.

I would bet there are many, many of us who always read every word you write and have learned so much ~~ but we are not actually taking part in the *conversation* so we don't stop to interject our thoughts and say, "hey, buehl, that was outstanding advice and once again I learned something that I didn't even *know* that I didn't know!"

~ yikes, does that even make sense ~ it's the middle of the night, why am I not in bed sleeping!

Seriously, my dear, my guess is I can speak for many when I say you are much appreciated & please keep up your generous contributions to this forum ~ "now I lay me down to sleep"

Once again Buehl, please direct me ti your finished kitchen photographs, Please!

Buehl unless I missed a comment somewhere it appears to me that several have mentioned how wonderful it is that this forum is so open and caring with opinions. In my case it allowed me to see that many of the things I did were OK.

I looked at kitchens that cost many, many, thousands more then I could ever spend, but it made everything I added to my kitchen that much more of a challenge. To find tile for .22 cents that looked like the 22.00 tile. The thrill of the hunt to copy the beautiful features that you take the time to tell us about and doing it for less.

I hope no one is offended by this post as I for one have found it very enjoyable. Now I'm off to trim out my 42"X24" island :O)

Cindy in STL

Buehl and all those who contribute so much here,

I truly appreciate and look forward to your advise. I have saved alot of information you gave me directly or to others and plan to use it. Cabinet height comes to mind.

Maybe many of us feel we are "breaking the rules" not from the advise we get here, but from magazines, H*TV shows, friends, KDs, family, etc. House Hunters get to me sometimes when people turn up their noses at kitchens that don't have SS appliances and granite slab counters. I just turn it off. Maybe the money being spent puts on extra pressure.

For me, it took posting my layout for me to realize that there is not much I can do. With the limitions of a 1926 quirky house, a bad architect kitchen layout, and a limited budget, it is what it is. Our remodel involves much more than just the kitchen so it becomes overwhelming sometimes. I'm sorry if that stress came through in my OP. Today we need to make a decision about a shower door. I am spending way too much time on this one decision!

My hope with this thread was to see if others had to make choices due to budget, space, etc. that broke with standard advise and how did it work. Do you barely notice your aisles are narrower than advised or does it cause a traffic jam? Did it work out OK or did you regret it? Things like that.

I'm really sorry if my OP did not come across the way I intended it to. Hope today is better for you. : )

Thank you again for all you do for this forum.

Oh, Buehl!!! I'm so sorry. So many of my ideas have stemmed from you and other folks' advice and implementations here on the board. Note I have all drawers except for the sink cab (where I think I'll use that low pullout that I saw here). Making the cabs deeper to make my regular fridge look built-in or at least counter-depth. That idea is from you guys here. Even my "against the grain" choices stem from watching you all be creative, think outside the norm if necessary, do what function and the space and aesthetics all require. Please know that your generous contributions and the contributions of all the other regulars and everyone else here are truly taken to heart.

Buehl, I don't think anyone in this thread is reacting to any of the personal forum advice offered here so generously by you and other members! This forum would be vastly the poorer without it.

In my upper cab height story, for example, I was just quite surprised not to have known that something accepted as a rigid "rule" in all the photos and magazines and articles turned out not to be, and it was OK to break it if I needed to.

A lot of this, too, can probably be traced to the fact that many of us cannot afford a kitchen designer or custom cabinetry, and are thus fairly reliant on the normatized standards in mass construction and installation -- and these can sometimes feel oppressive, or result in someone feeling worried and/or invalidated about their choice if it bucks that standardized system. This forum then becomes the only validating support structure for some posters, and if they are trying something different from the norm -- different within the bounds of not having custom luxuries built by a trusted expert craftsperson -- it can feel fairly lonely and angsty.

And, of course, we all always need to remember, when putting something so intimate as the heart of our homes online for strangers to evaluate: Vive la Difference! :-)

buehl-

I'm sorry you feel so personally offended by this thread, I can assure you that my post(s) in no way are intended to offend you and the many others who give freely of their time to complete strangers, many of whom, as you point out, are not really primed to receive advice or input. As another poster said, this thread isn't just about the KF or GW in general, it's about going against the grain of conventional wisdom, and, in my case, creating a creative, low budget, fun and funky eating/cooking/living space that suits our household.

We don't give a damn about resale, trends, pleasing others or work zones, we know what we like, and we work towards that vision, maybe that's not the norm, but it's certainly not intended to offend you or anyone else who contributes to this forum, and I'm sorry you feel that way.

sandyponder

Here are the things I did that were most contrary to popular opinion when I remodeled my kitchen five years ago. For me it helped that I was working with a very good KD who didn't discourage me from getting what I wanted and who was experienced enough to know when it really wasn't that important to "go by the book" aka NKBA guidlines.

I didn't choose granite for most of my counters - most are Corian with just my island and cooktop granite

I chose very dark quartersawn oak cabinets - dark cabinets weren't popular then and people of course said "ewww" when they heard the word oak.

I got a side by side refrigerator - just works better in a galley space

I got an island even though my aisles would only be between 34 and 39 inches

Five years later I'm still very happy with all these choices - no regrets.

Buehl - I'm sorry this thread upset you so. I love reading your posts advice & seeing your beautiful kitchen. It's one of my favorites.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I was already through the design phase of my kitchen when I found this website. I wish I had found it sooner - your posts as well as others would have saved me a lot of stress in the planning phase - like having diff cabinets over my fridge - never even occurred to me at the time. But it is what it is, so I just try to find the humor in it & keep hoping that my 12 year old 5'9" son keeps growing so he'll be able to reach things me lol!!

Keep posting with all your wisdom!!

While I can appreciate the magazine kitchens, I certainly don't feel the need or even the inclination to duplicate them. My house reflects a vacation, outdoor-oriented lifestyle. I'm basically keeping the 10-15 yr old kitchen the same as when I bought the house, including the "dated" two-tier, C-shaped island that would be soooo pooh-poohed here. It happens to be a breeze to work in. You also won't find those "have to have" 48" Wolf range, warming drawers, coffee station, or a prep sink. No matching appliances here-not even matching finishes. I did put new pulls on the cabinets-in antique brass.

Table dining still preferred here. Despite having an island with 11 ft long overhang-there are just two stools. More than 2 diners-we switch to the table.

I am getting new counters but most of the "clutter" will go back once the granite is in. I prefer the lived-in look as long as it's not overdone. I don't find clean-swept counters to be relaxing.

I haven't decided about a backsplash yet, but it will be simple and not "pop". Only a few inches tall, too, but that is also somewhat dictated by overall kitchen design.

Does anyone feel like sharing pics?? I was thinking of mixing hardware finishes, as well.

I plan on two regular Kenmore 30" ranges next to each other. I cannot afford a fancy stove and like my present one...so I will just add one more and call it "functional."

(((((HUGS))))), Buehl! You are beloved here! You can whip out workable layouts in the most challenging spaces, you organize and maintain all the accumulated wisdom, and you have the best, down to earth advice on organization.

There was one comment up topic that specifically mentioned something you're known and loved for as something the poster made a point of not doing--that is, pre-organizing. I didn't read it as a slam at you, but as an acknowledgment by the poster that she was doing things in a less organized way.

In my opinion, one I hope is shared, the point of this thread is about the successes we've made doing things in ways that are different from conventional wisdom, best design principles, tradition, style, etc. It's celebrating the quirks that work in our challenging spaces and different senses of style. It's not about trashing the rules! Only about celebrating when breaking a few of them work for us.

Please don't be offended! There are a lot of against the grain elements here that I've advised against too, because the advice we give is for the general sense of what works for most people. As long as it works for the individuals, however, we can celebrate their successes in doing things differently.

A big against the grain thing I forgot to mention earlier: My tile floor is white! I want to see the dirt to make it easy to clean, rather than hide it to make it easy to forget. I'm weird that way :)

bravo to all the above posters who articulated how we feel about our wonderfully helpful buehl so much better than my feeble attempt earlier at TRYING to say just what you ALL did! ~~ but I was soooo tired at 4 o'clock in the morning!

hear! hear! let's hear it for ALL the fantastic regulars who bless us with their well-thought out suggestions ! BRAVO BRAVO

I believe it was my original comment on the tile countertop thread that inspired this post so if I could just clarify...

The original reference pertained primarily to the aesthetic choices people make and not so much with functional guidelines. Tile counters have as many pros and cons as other choices - one countertop is not better or worse than another, it is just different. Each individual must decide what tradeoffs work in her own kitchen.

There are times when the commentary on this forum has nothing to do with function or guidelines but only seems to serve to reinforce a posters insular biases. Recently someone posted a pic and asked for help finding a backsplash to go with the countertop. Many came back without a backsplash suggestion but instead said the wall color was bad - someone even called it "jarring". Never mind that the OP liked the wall color and the responses were based on a single picture from a MONITOR, the need to steer towards normalicy dominated. I can think of almost a half dozen posts that come off like that.

I would not call this forum inflexible - in fact I found it while researching some of the tradeoff decisions I had to make (The working portion of my kitchen is 9x10, use your imagination). It was invaluable in giving me the confidence to go ahead with my choices.

However, I think that some of the comments above like those that don't post pic's or just lurk because they feel their kitchens are too OT is a reflection of how intimidating the forum can be to some.

I only wish more of the contributors used Buehl as an example. You always respond with a logical, factual comment giving the reader the help they need for an informed decision rather than some knee-jerk "eew, don't do that" post. And I also wish that more people would speak up to support ideas and trends that are out of favor at the moment.

I have an old house, so a lot of the things that go against the modern tide were done to respect the original and extant peculiarities that make it what it is.
I put in soffits on purpose because I wanted them! So in your face!
I left _six_ doors in the kitchen! Well, seeing as how there had been eight at one point...
The kitchen and dining aren't "opened up" into one mega-room. I kept the old layout as-is.
Whenever possible, I kept and restored the old plaster.
I exposed, kept and restored the wood floor.
I kept the tall Victorian window that extends below the counter top (with exceeding cleverness, I might add).
I have five types or colors of wood.
My soapstone goes un-oiled.
There are six different knobs and pulls.
The upper cabinets are a completely different style from the base cabinets.
I have all stainless appliances in a historic house kitchen.
There is not a single pendant light fixture anywhere.
The fridge is 16 feet from the main sink.
There is no artsy tile backsplash, just painted plaster.
I use wool persian carpets in the kitchen!
There are probably many other violations of conventional wisdom.
Casey

To beuhl, boxerpups and others who post often giving layout advice, inspirational pictures, etc. please know that all your time and effort is greatly appreciated.

From this forum I learned about many recessed lighting options, organizing my spices in a drawer, saved money by getting my faucet online, and advice on flooring and backsplash choices.

What I am liking about this thread is knowing that so many will not have or do not have magazine perfect kitchens. It's going to make me feel better about posting my pictures when my kitchen is done.

To beuhl, boxerpups and others who post often giving layout advice, inspirational pictures, etc. please know that all your time and effort is greatly appreciated.

From this forum I learned about many recessed lighting options, organizing my spices in a drawer, saved money by getting my faucet online, and advice on flooring and backsplash choices.

What I am liking about this thread is knowing that so many will not have or do not have magazine perfect kitchens. It's going to make me feel better about posting my pictures when my kitchen is done.

This is a great thread (minus the usual overreacting, critism, and cheerleading). Back on topic:

I am in the planning stages. Rules are meant to be broken!

I will be putting a range close to a side wall. Between 3 and 9 inches from the wall.

I may use a bathroom faucet for my prep/bar sink.

I will be painting my own cabinets in the color of my choice because I like that hand-painted look. If I decide to use white, it will be super, ultra, bright white. Yep, the whitest white I can find.

I hate busy tile backsplashes. To me, they're like tattoos and bad prom dresses--interesting for about a second. If you like them, good for you. I especially don't like accent tiles. Hate them. Ick. I will likely go with a plain white industrial tile application, if I use tile at all.

I am trying like the devil to avoid anything but the mimimum use of molding.

I care about funtionality. Sick of hearing about zones, trianges, etc. Does it work or not? I know how to use a tape measure. As long as it is functionally and visually appealing for me and my family, and it is within my town's code, that's what counts.

I don't like opening up spaces where it isn't architectually appropriate. I bet most KD's would want to open my wall and put a peninsula inbetween my kitchen and dining room. Imo, it would ruin the character of the home, so I won't even consider it.

I will be stacking cabinets to the ceiling. I don't really care about using a step stool to reach things. I need storage!

Instead of some traditonal U-shaped layout, I will do a straight run of counter to the wall, leaving one wall blank! Then I will mount a 32" flat screen TV on the blank wall--and I am not a dude!

I may use an amoire as my pantry in the kitchen.

I will be putting in a pot filler too. And no, I'm not worried about leaks in the wall. Geez, if that were a concern, I wouldn't have ANY plumbing in my house.

Now, here's my caveat: if anybody reads this and is offended, it is not my problem. Maybe it is yours. I am stating MY OPINION and choices as to what I am doing that "goes against the grain" regarding my kitchen. That's what this thread is about. End of story. I am nobody. And so are you. Anonymous. A person who in the SHORT-TERM ONLY, is interested in kitchens, who throws in a tidbit or two to try to help. If what you read here is upsetting to you, move on, because you are likely way too invested in getting affirmation in cyberspace. Not everybody is going to give it to you all the time.

Wow! Why are you so angry, redhead? I think the point of this thread was to feature off the beaten path choices, not to use it as a p1ss-on-you diatribe.

I care about funtionality.
Seems to me that someone who cares about functionality wouldn't want to put their range within 3" of a sidewall. That type of placement would seem like the ultimate in dysfunctionality with no space for overhanging pot handles, elbows, or landing space for items coming off the range.

Going against the grain is like buehl stated not a bad thing as long as the reasons for convention have been weighed. We kept our super-hated-list-item OTR microwave because it made sense for us. But I don't discount what others feel are the negatives of this placement.

We went with cork floors regardless of possible floods and soapstone, while popular here on GW, is a no-go at most local home improvement venues.

I hope that seeing all of the off-the-beaten-path choices that people are making will help give anyone who was hesitant the courage to post your finished kitchen pics. Mine should be ready soon.

"When did you go against the grain, against conventional advise? How did it work out?"

Beuhl, I hope you were just having a long, hard day. I don't see this thread as contrary to your views. Rather, by opening a discussion about why and when to do something differently, and whether it worked or not, I think you wind up looking at both the whys and the why nots. And a number of the things talked about are a simply a matter of taste or style -- from puck lighting to marble counters to brass hardware lighting and mixed finishes. I haven't seen it as you apparently did.

I've learned a lot from this forum, but have been hesitant to post. My aisles are narrow, cabinets are oak, counters are ceramic tile, cooktop is in counter-depth island. and I have downdraft ventilation. It's worked well for us for 25 years. We're getting ready to paint the (custom and still sound) cabinets and get soapstone counters. We're gonna love our "new" kitchen as much as we loved our old one.

Going against the grain in terms of functionality, when there are appropriate options, just to be contrary doesnt make sense, really. Going against the grain with fixtures and finishes is a matter of personal choice.

I don't think *anyone would put a fridge against the wall, a range the minimum distance from the wall, make an aisle too narrow *if *they *had *plenty *of *room *not *to.

However, it is disheartening to hear people call a 10 x 15 kitchen tiny, and feel that (and get feedback in agreement) that they have an "impossible" situation.

And there are a lot of rules stated (that are ALL great guidelines, BTW) that you *must have 15" between the refrigerator and the wall, you *must have 15" of an overhang to sit comfortably at a breakfast bar, and "have you considered a prep sink?" etc. that is promoted as if it is code or law or at least absolute stupidity to not follow all these to the letter.

And so we get people trying to cram these dimensions into a 9 x 11 kitchen and they end up thinking "why bother, its going to be a dysfunctional p.o.s. when I am done".

The furor over fixtures and finishes seems to have died down a little bit presently but for a while it was "you are sadly misguided if you do not have granite at the top of your countertop list". Laminate unacceptable, Corian a passe joke. You can't leave red wine on it for a week, or a broiler pan straight out the oven...so why even consider it.

Sometimes it has been very Junior High, and unfortunately this thread took the same turn because someone gets bent out of shape because there is a discussion that runs alternate to her (good and constructive) advice. So, she has to discount all the thanks she gets routinely to blow up on people in this thread. Sorry your feelings were hurt, but you also need to 1) understand that this thread developed out of some people's need for alternatives 2) man up and understand that when you give free advice, while most people will appreciate it greatly, some people may choose to leave it rather than take it.

I just got back, and found 57 posts. No time to read them all.

To minimize groupthink, ".... a type of thought exhibited by group members who try to minimize conflict and reach consensus without critically testing, analyzing,..." let's agree that we ought to let contrary thoughts be welcome. This means we not rebut immediately with the obvious sage advice that can be found everywhere, and that will come out in any case within a day or two, like say after the first few posts that could encourage and ask questions.

In my kitchen I have many things that I wouldn't have dared to tell you before.

Among them:
I designed my own exhaust vent. All I've posted here in GW is the type of blower.
I have only drawers everywhere, even under the sink. Two extra-deep drawers, with internal drawers that in some cases get pulled out with the main drawer at the same time.
I made the P trap disappear by positioning it deep at the back next to the wall.
I bought my own light bulbs and made my own light fixtures (or had them made). Halogen and fluorescent.
I made my own drawer handles.
I specified my own choice for countertop edging, that nobody here in GW recommended.
I specified bullnosing inside the sink cutout.
I bought 24" ovens when most were ridiculing them in this forum (a year ago), and the few who said they're fine would get rebutted.
I bought frameless cabinets when many were ridiculing them (a year ago). That has disappeared now.
I removed the bottom panel (horizontal) of the frameless cabinets in order to have more depth for drawers.
This last item got ridiculed by several oldtimers here, without adding anything to the level of discourse or to the facts. That was a year ago, when I asked about doing this. Then, in January 2010 - a year later - one person mentioned it all over again in -- in a new thread, to tease me or ridicule me. Seriously. What the wha??

If anyone sounded angry, in any post above, I hope you can see that it may have a basis.

I've seen many things that can fly well, against the prevailing wind.
Why can't it also be like that here?
I think the OP hoped for a bit of this.
The title is "Going against the Grain"

-

Wow Redhead no need to be so mean spirited. Take what you like and leave the rest. If not just leave.

debrak, thanks for this thread I'm guilty of having an OTR microwave, a full size fridge (never thought to recess it, shut!) and Gasp a ceiling Fan! But it works for us.

Buehl your advise is priceless. You did not even know me and you gave me a layout that would rival any KD. Unfortunately due to my disability and early retirement our major remodel turned into a modest one. But I appreciate your time and kindness. Thank you!

hey Davidro,

Did you ever find a way to hinge your fridge + separate cabinet door? I was really intrigued by that design and in fact saw a live example not so long ago in someone's house (again a Liebherr: those Germans!). No camera along, sadly.

That hinged fridge-cabinet door thread was perhaps a case in point, where a member wanted to brainstorm but the idea was roundly chastized as inconceivable by a few forum experts. As it turned out, this is a common way to encase the fridge in other parts of the world, and all it takes is sending abroad for the correct connector hinges.

David, I'd also love to see some shots of your drawer MacGuyvering, if you have any handy, to see what you're talking about. Inquiring minds need to know!

Aghast, I have

No prep sink by choice
Frig against the wall by choice
No pendants over island. (DH hates them)
Nothing on the large island (no sink, no range)
Hood not wide enough or fancy enough.....
Viking range, another gasp
pantry several steps away from the kitchen.
Kitchen desk area, no one likes them here.

Most of the "against the grain" comments amuse me--as they aren't at all! There are a few that really are due to taste, and some that are due to space constraints, but sandyponder has one of the only really "against the grain" kitchens, in its full conception, here, I think.

Lessee...

I've got two steps up into the rest of the house, but that was forced on my by existing architecture, and I got stuck with it. I finally figured out how to change something round to make it work, though!!!

I've got 12" from the fridge to the wall--also pretty necessary.

Narrow aisles seem favored around here, but I can't stand a 36" aisle and feel trapped, so I disagree that most people advocate wide ones, as I think many people around here are fine with 32"-36".

What people don't like about my kitchen plans (in their current form) that I love--

Two big sinks, though they're in different locations now, so they might not be so controversial.

Table-height, well, tables in the kitchen area for people to hang out at and little kids to cook.

A pass-over for dishes from the dining area. The fact that the DW is completely on the other side of the island from the dining area and dish area really throws people, but it will work great with a pass-over (not a pass-through, and there's no wall) set up, where you circle just once to put the dishes away or in the DW, depending on which way they're going--or, more likely, pass it to a kid for them to do it.

No one's commented on my trash location, which has essentially remained unchanged, but people probably wouldn't favor it. It works for me because I've moved to using a bowl for trash as I'm cooking, and I always have the compost bucket handy.

As I have a stove right against the wall right now, if there is enough space for another option, I'd call that choice just plain stupid.

I just spent the morning looking at every single kitchen in the finished kitchen blog. Thank you starpooh!

Most of your kitchens are not there. We have been reading about mixed finishes, unsual layouts, how you adapted your kitchen around things that could not change, etc. Now we need to see them.

Please post your kitchens! There are many examples of "going against the grain" aready there, but we need yours too. : )

Some of the things that have helped to calm my nerves are ...using mixed finshes, not having pendant lighting, not having SS, its OK to have 1 sink, appliances aren't always in the best location but you manage to cook, non granite slab countertops, lots of doors in the kitchen, not so wide aisles, just to name a few. Thank you all.

My 'against the grain' choices were (and this is not necessarily forum 'grain' but conventional wisdom or preference):

I have a powder room directly off the kitchen. My house is quite small and a PO had put it there and I kept it there during the remodel. Not ideal, but there was no where else I could figure out to put it on the main floor.

I messed with the original layout of my 1914 house. The original layout (before it was modified by a PO) had a tiny completely closed-off 8 x 9 kitchen. The dining room was also too small to be really functional. With the help of the guru's here I completely eliminated a formal dining room and made one big eat-in kitchen.

I have a microwave on my counter. I couldn't find a good spot for it no matter how hard I tried and gave up.

Because the house is small, the kitchen is visible from everywhere. Walk in the front door and you can see my oven and prep zone, walk in the side door and you see the whole thing.

I made an island/table with seating on 3 sides, even the 'inside' across from my range and sink so you can literally be seated at the table and push out the chair and twist and stir a pot on the stove. Hehe. Not that I do that, but I could =)

I installed a beer tap in the kitchen.

The trim in the kitchen is painted white while the rest of the house is stained wood.

I used latches on some cabinets. Definitely not against GW wisdom there, but others thought it was kind of crazy to have to open one side of the cabinet to get to the other.

My new kitchen will have a micro above the range due to lack of counter space and cabinetry. I have a boos meat Block Island that I will not part with even though the allotted room around it would not be acceptable to most. And, not only am I uncool for having a micro above the range, I plan on drawing attention to it by having contrasting upper cabinet colors in the pull-out spice cabs on each side and a mirrored cabinet above with a double arched mullion doors.

I can see there are a lot of different definitions/interpretations of "the grain".....

I love this thread - it's the very definition of my kitchen! But when working with a very old house & the kitchen designed for the space rather than the other way around, the result is anything but a layout in a glossy mag.........

A fairly large area but only 9 lin ft of counter,
Butcher block counters - end grain, no less!
Drop in sink due to the BB countertops & small sink base which is not under a window,
Upper cabs that go to the 11' ceiling,
A BS that's NOT tile,
A sxs refrigerator,
No island & no prep sink,
A range that is freestanding between a door & a lg window,
Pots are hung on a rack rather than in drawers,
One wall is painted an accent color,
A cabinet with roll out trays rather than a drawer,
No pendant lighting,
A ceiling fan that is off-centered,
Pro SS appliances in an old house,
And the list goes on......

The renovation was done about 7 years ago & I still love it - quirks & all - even though it will never appear in any magazines or win any awards.

gibby3000, definitely! Most of the items I mentioned in my post are reflections of comments I got from friends/family, like my Grannie who was adamant you shouldn't see the kitchen from the front door, or my friends who were stunned (but mostly delighted) that I was putting in a beer tap :) To each their own :)

antiquesilver, now that you've publicly declared your k itchen reno done, you have to post finished ki tchen pics. I've seen snippets that you've posted on other posts and have saved each pic into my inspiration file for next time. Your dark rubbed through painted cabs were the inspiration for my wine & liquor hutch. Please, please, please post a tada post!

Sorry for the hijack everyone. You may return to what makes your kit chens unique.

don't go redhead

laxsupermom, thanks for the compliments but the pantry cabinets are still unpainted & an appropriate crown moulding remains elusive. Just today I was thinking of starting to paint the pantries....

Email me directly if there is anything particular you would like to see. Oh yeah that's another thing that's 'not the norm' - it's not as photogentic as it could be!
Hester

Going against the grain PURPOSELY? Or because there wasn't any choice (money/space)?

Most things about my kit would not be recommended on here, but I didn't really have any choice as I wasn't spending $50K+ or totally moving all the walls around.
[as palimpest noted above] So for most of it I can't really say, "I went against the grain!"

Two things I COULD have done different but CHOSE not to:

1. Kept My Peninsula. Thought about it intensely, everyone IRL (didn't ask on here) said change to an island, but I just don't like islands. I still like my peninsula! :)
I think this is MORE against the grain than all the skinny islands with narrow aisles. Most people, it seems to me, do anything to have a island in any size.

2. Ornate c abinet doors with applied rope trim, painted white with pewter glaze. This look is often referred to on here as "dirty".

Was also advised to take down the wall between the kit and DR (IRL, not on here) by friends. But I LOVE my formal DR so I did not. So maybe that too?

I didn't actually ask for or get advise from this forum as I found it too late. But it did get me to do ONE thing, which I did "wrong"! After seeing photos of MW drawers
in islands I decided to put my MW below the counter, and created an open shelf for it to sit on. Love it there. Found out long after those were DRAWERS I had seen
and they opened from the TOP. LOL! I still think it's hilarious I had NO idea what I was looking at. Never saw a MW DRAWER before.

I stop back here because it's interesting to see how different people change their spaces.
Befores and Afters are always fascinating, no matter what you do.