I can't imagine what sort of a dog's breakfast those pipes look like!

Do you really need to cover them over? if you really want to, like electric codes that forbid splices, joins and junctions in concealed areas, I suspect it would be against code to seal the valves up. In my experience the only cutoff valves that don't leak or fail are the ball type, and even then, you never know.

So yes, you need to remove those valves, and hopefully if there's a lot of joins and bits and pieces in there, the plumber can replace most of them with a fresh section of pipe for neatness and to reduce the risk of future leaks.

Of course this won't interfere with water flow/pressure, in fact it might even help slightly, as many valves tend to have a restricting effect.

replace them. if they develop a drip leak, your wall WILL end up full of mold and repair will be a bigger hassle than you can imagine.

Well. Ok then.

I guess the next question is, does anybody know a great/competent/quick plumber in the DC/NoVa area that will come fix this at night...all for a reasonable price? (Because I just got two quotes where the cheaper one is $580 to remove these cut-off valves. Maybe I should have pointed out that they aren't made of radioactive waste.)

Why would this take more than an hour? Why isn't this just, like, $75-$100? (I know, I know...we're not in Kansas anymore, Toto...)

that sounds very high to me, i would call a few more places. get a service call during the day, as night rates are usually emergency and higher cost.

What type of pipe do you have? Have you ever considering learning how to DIY? The supply side of plumbing is pretty easy to learn and understand. You can make alot of mistakes for $580. Once you gain a little knowledge it can be quite powerful and liberating.

good luck

davidandkasie: Those quotes weren't for evening hours. I was only asking for somebody that could come at night because every time somebody wants to even give me an estimate, I have to leave work, wait over at the apartment until they (might or might not) show up, spend some better part of an hour showing them the two stupid valves that need to be removed, try to not scream with impatience as they scope out the rest of our plumbing and comment on that, blah, blah, blah, drive back to work. All for the privilege of being charged an exorbitant fee for the pleasure of their service. (Oops, did that sound bitter?)

When I asked if anyone knew of that kind of plumber (reasonable rates, actually shows up, does his job quickly and well), I might as well have been asking if anyone knew Santa Claus. Not that I don't think either exist, just that apparently neither will actually return a phone call for a piddling little project like ours.

Chris8796: I am definitely to that point. Though blow torches and pressure testing scares the daylights out of me (I'm more of a carpentry kind of girl), I am definitely about two inches away from buying some serious fire power and trying my hand at this. (My parents were stoopid to encourage me to get a big, fat education. I could have skipped all that silly learning and just become a plumber and charge helpless urban idiots like myself $150 an hour, bringing down $300,000 a year. Must remember to call dad and tell him....)

I am so frustrated.

Sorry about the last post. I can't believe I hit "send" with all that rant in the text. My apologies. If I could edit it now to remove it, I would.

just become a plumber and charge helpless urban idiots like myself $150 an hour, bringing down $300,000 a year. Must remember to call dad and tell him....

Lets not forget many plumbers are affiliated with a company (the guy doing the work does not see that whole amount)
Also there are such things as workers comp and liability insurance and costs for vehicle maintenance, tools etc (not to mention other costs that I am sure someone could elaborate on).

As for serious fire power, not necessary for small jobs most prefer a small propane torch (range in cost from about $30-50 for a good one that includes the first tank of gas, depending on which model). The job as you describe it would likely not require more than one tank of gas. Assorted goodies (flux, acid brush solder, mini tubing cutter, emery cloth or wire bristle cleaners) should run under $50 combined (based on pricing for decent tools, not the top, not the bottom). Pipe and fittings should cost in the under $25 range depending on what exactly is needed) You could probably get away with cutting the old shutoffs out with a mini pipe cutter and soldering in copper repair sleeves.

this link shows a mini tubing cutter for working in tight spaces
http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/Midget-Tubing-Cutters

While its not your exact situation, the link below will give you an idea what you are getting into

Here is a link that might be useful: basic copper pipe repair

I would say if you have copper pipes and an iota of common sense, teach yourself a little plumbing.

I learned most of my DIY skills because of financial need. Now that I have the ability to pay, I still almost always DIM because of the frustrations you describe.

stw954, since you live in the DC area you really ought to subscribe to Washington Consumer Checkbook magazine. Website is checkbook.org. A high rating in Checkbook doesn't guarantee a good experience, but it does improve the odds.

chris8796: Yup, I think that is the route I'm going to have to take. (I'm just tired, that's all.) I've never done any plumbing because my dad never did any plumbing: he always figured the price of failure was too high to mess around with for that area of home improvement (and electricity, too). I don't doubt I can do this, though. It is just one more line item on my list of things to learn how to do because I can't find anyone to not rip me off.

suburbanmd: Actually, we ponied up for the plumbers report for Washington Consumer Checkbook. I called the top fourteen on the list and only got two callbacks. One was the $580 quote (of the two quotes I got, it was indeed lower than the other by about $100), and the other never returned my follow-up call (I wasn't home when he first called me). And Angie's list is basically useless.

I think we are small and plumbers either won't bother or they jack the price up high enough that it is "worth" their precious time. Fair enough but I'm sick of it, and at best, it is either rude or disingenuous.

There is absolutely no way I think removing two stupid cut-off valves will take almost four hours by a licensed plumber (which is what the $580 implies, given what that company quoted as their time-and-materials per-hour rate). And yes, I do understand that when they give you a firm quote, they are supposed to be trying to factor in the "mystery" part where they don't actually know for sure what is inside your walls or what they might encounter. But we have no drywall and they can see everything.

Like chris8796 said, teach yourself a little plumbing. There are a ton of websites out there that can help you learn almost any home repair project you can think of. The website below is very young, but is growing rapidly. There is a lot of helpful stuff there for the DIYer.

Here is a link that might be useful: Easy Home Repair

Yes, shut-off valves fail. When doing plumbing on my 1940's house, I turned off the valve for what may have been the first time in 20 years. It didn't turn off all the way. Neither did the valve at the street. I put a five gallon bucket under my shut off and timed filling a 5 gallon bucket using only the street shut-off. That told me how much time I had to pull my valve and get to the hardware store and back. I took apart the valve while the wife drove. I lucked out and actually found the right size washer instead of buying a new valve.

Mark