Have no idea about the collie breed, only labs. lol At first read, it sounds very much like old age arthritis, but I don't know how old collie's usually live to before experiencing issues. My oldest boy, soon to be 11 no longer comes upstairs at bedtime, and seems to have alot of those type of days you are describing. While I am not going to my vet, I've had 3 old labs before Lowell, so I know the pattern all too well. If you are knowledgable about the breed and are comfortable, I think a call to your vet (assuming you have a longstanding relationship) to just let him/her know what's going on, and some suggestions of how to keep your dog more comfortable - meds. One thing that I do for my guy when it is particularly bad is give him either ascriptin (aspirin with maalox to coat the stomach) which was ok'd by the vet, or tramadol from the vet. I use my own judgment to assess the pain level after he's awake and had breakfast. I take him out and see what's what for the day. I always start with the Ascripton as the Tramadol is a true rx pain med. I wouldn't suggest doing this if you're not well versed with your dog's breed, or haven't been a dog owner for a long time. Let your vet be your guide. I totally agree about the cost - my late 13 yr. old girl was on 13 meds a day before we had to put her down. I told myself at that time that I would never again pay or provide so many meds to a dog. It's tough because you want to keep them going. I think if you visit the vet, one med you will be offered will be Deramax or similar med for arthritis. The are ridiculously expensive even with the coupons and checks back. I spent a small fortune on my girl. I look back and it makes me sick that the pharmaceutical cos. have now invaded pet care. I found that the Tramadol (less expensive) worked better and cost less JMHO. I always use the lowest dose and work upward should the stiffness persist. The lyme titer is smart. What most vets do not tell you is that the vaccine can give your dog lyme disease. We only do Advantix with yrly lyme titers. Treat if necessary. No lyme vaccinations for our guys. Its so tough watching our best friends age. I hope it's nothing serious, just the natural arthritis that can come with aging in some breeds.

Question, Do you know for a fact he is terrified of cars or is that just what the kennel people said?? Was it because of the experience the dog was having going to the kennel?? Could you give him a wakl on the leash around the car, then go back inside and try and do a bit more each time you take him out and get him use to just the look of the car?? I know if my husky mix had his way he would never leave the house or the car....He has issues with everything and things can turn from carefree to get me in the car right now in a matter of minutes. If I dont push him every now and then he would be fat and lazy and never go anywhere. The other day while hiking he heard an airplane go overhead, and took off for the car. I kept walking, knowing he has seperation anxiety I used that to my advantage, eventually as soon as I disappeared behind some bushes he came up to me. I talked to him and whistled for him the whole time. Sounds like this pup needs some bonding - do you talk to him alot while you are there?? How do you feel about taking him for a walk near the car - will the shelter let you do that?? I think this poor dog might not be wired right to start off with, and I think the shelter people have put alot of limits on the dog - I mean I would be afraid of a car too if someone noosed me and tossed me in, and yet given the right situation and the right person I think you might be able to overcome some of this shyness. Do you know anything about the dogs history before he got to the shelter or how old it might be??

SG, Thank you so much for your insight--I believe you are a true "dog whisperer"! Let me clarify a few things and ask specific training & environmental questions: First I'll say, due to you and Annz' kind help, I believe I have corrected one of my problems. When I designed our new home I made space under the wall cabinets in the laundry rm for the dogs' kennels--next to each other. I thgt I was so smart doing this, but for my dogs' personalities, this may be one big problem. So hours ago, I moved Tiger's kennel to a different room (pantry next to L. rm) and he went right in! So now they will have their own space--away from each other. ~~I am also not going to allow either to sit under my desk while I am working--maybe that made Pepper (the Wheaton) think Tiger was getting special treatment (?). #2: The dogs do know I am TOP DOG for I, also, use their food & bowls to show my dominance--pretend to eat a kernel from their bowls before putting bowl down--pick up while they are eating & touch them/their food while they are eating. Never a problem--never a growl or resistance. Also, when we pass thru a door outside I am to go first, after I have them sit-stay & wait for me. I have them sit/lay/stay on command from time to time during the day to reinforce this too. ~~A trainer I consulted after the first attack told me that they both knew I was top dog but I did things to allow Pepper to think she was my equal--that we were BOTH top dogs. So I've been doing these things for a long time---more strictly for about a yr--but now you'll see NOT STRICTLY ENOUGH. ***Let me be specific in my info and question: When I open a door to let them out, Pepper does bolt out the door ahead of me about 1/3 of the time. I use my correction sound (Ehhhhh) and she immediately returns to my side to sit/stay until I give her the "OK" to move. (Sometimes just hearing the correction sound from me, she stops & returns to my side.) Specifically, WHEN I say sit/stay--she ALWAYS obeys. If I give NO command, she will start thru the door. ~~~Writing this out, I see I'm slacking and creating top dog DOUBT in her mind. So she isn't totally convinced that I am top dog? Or am I teaching her that I AM top dog but if she "assumes a top dog behavior" there is no real consequence besides "re-doing the situation" and moving on? SO, I need to go back to square one and take better control--using a lead to control, give commands EVERY TIME AND be persistent. But is it as "simple" as that? I can & will do these things correctly now but what else am I doing or what else can I do. Surely my "allowing" her to even consider disobeying my top-dog status isn't the only reason she's "comfortable" risking punishment in order to attack Tiger? I believe Tiger knows Pepper is Alpha dog and is comfortable with it. It has to be ME & my behavior that affects Peppers attacks. Hope I've been somewhat clear about what I do & don't do in order for you all to help give me instruction & advice. tks again in advance, CB

This is what I have learned thus far. Purebred dogs are bred as such so that a person knows what they are getting when they buy a puppy. For example, tempermenmt, size, coat considerations, and required living conditions. The reasons breeders breed purebred dogs are entirely their's personally and somewhere in their reasons is the adherance to a breed standard (usually). Not a bad idea if a breeder can successfully pull this off. However, this does not guarentee the personality of a purebred dog. Generally speaking, temperment is what they are bred for, personality is something they are born with and grow in to. For example, I have been breeding shelties for many years and can tell you that, as a breed, shelties are not "in your face" dogs, they are more cautious and sensitive, they prefer to be beside you at all times, they bark as they are bred to drive stock and alert, they have a double coat which requires lots of grooming and they shed, they are very affectionate, happy dogs and are extremely smart and easy to train. They can develop skin problems, eye problems, hip issues, and a few genetic diseases more exclusive to shelties. That said, this is the case with all purebred dogs, of course, each to their own breed. Reputable breeders will generally strive to produce healthy, balanced dogs with an emphasis on temperment and genetic soundness. To acheive this, a breeder will put in the best in nutrition, health care, housing, training and everyday care which is not only a financially costly venture but a time consuming one. Why?, because they love doing it! Placing our puppies in the "right" homes is the hard part of the whole process. In a nutshell, this is what I have learned about purebred dog breeders. Mongrels are and always will be a dime a dozen as a dog will do what comes naturally no matter who their choices are. That said, this is why the shelters and streets are overflowing with unwanted and uncaredfor dogs. :( Most of those animals are just as loving as any purebred or designer dog ever bred! And ALL are deserving of love and a caring home. Designer dogs is s whole different story and one I am not impressed with personally. Designer dogs, that is dogs bred purposely to create a dog to fit the fad at the time, are not bad dogs. They are dogs like all others. People in their infinate wisdom decided to make dogs a fashion statement or novelty! Like we don't have enough breeds to choose from and we don't have enough hoomeless animals out there that we have to create more. Cotons are an excellent example IMO! They are not a registered breed and are therefore a designer dog! Cute, fluffy, friendly little dogs that they are, it is sad that people are breeding them for "their" own gain!!!!! And the sadest part is that other people are willing to shell out the cash for one to carry around on their arm like a Gucci purse! In addition to the insanity of desiner dogs is the fact that many (NOT ALL) of these poor little dogs are bred in so called "puppy mills" ( I call them "sweat shops") home or otherwise, to satisfy the market demands!! Sick! I won't go any further with my ideas or understanding of how new breeds are developed and come to be as I have probably already said more than necessary. You asked a lot of questions BalTra and I hope to give you my honest thoughts and opinions. I am very passionate about the lives of animals and any other living creatures we have been so blessed to share our planet with. I agree with eahamel in all of what was shared. My suggestion is that you carefully research breeds you may be interested in. The internet is full of information. As well, contact breeders, go see their homes and dogs, and ask TONS of questions. Be careful of breeders who offer health guarentees (check it out carefully as you cannot guarentee health on any living thing)but don't dismiss genetic testing and medical history of the line. Most reputable breeders are more than happy to share their knowledge and expertise on "their " breed and specifically their line, and many have experience with other similar breeds. Myself, I encourage potential owners to visit my home prior to and shortly after puppies are born to learn as much as they can and get to know where their baby is coming from. I owe that to my puppies. They come first and I will do everything I can to ensure I find the right fit. Unfortunately , we don't always get the opportunity to pick a puppy this way so we take our chances. Contrary to what we would like to believe, animal sheltiers can only give us a good guess as to what breeds may be included in a mongrel and what their temperment may be like after spending a limited amount of time with them. We have to take a chance. I believe that very few dogs are "bad" dogs and that it is most often the ignorance or neglect/disinterest of the owners that creates an unruly or hostile dog. Baring in mind also that breed inherant traits and characteristics will always be. You can't expect the average border collie cross, for example, not to herd somewhat. It is as natural for them as it is for a retriever to retrieve and like water! There is no such thing as a hypoallergenic dog. Some breeds don't shed as much as others and some have dander that is closer to falling out of their hair (probably why you are more responsive to short haired breeds). If the dog is kept clean and groomed and is fed a quality food with hopes of producing less dry skin, your chances are good you will not react alergically. Some breeds like Poodles, Shih Tzu's, Terriers and such don't generally drop as much coat but require clipping and/or lots of grooming to keep their hair from matting. There are many breeds to choose from and therefore, you have the advantage of getting pretty close to the perfect dog. Only you know your lifestyle, habits and requirements of your pet. IMHO, the perfect dog can only come about by listening to your gut and following it. Your dog will hear that instinctively! I hope I have been helpful and not too wordy. Good luck with your search. It will be an adventure and an exciting one that will end in pure joy with lots of love and puppy kisses ^^^^^ A short story I found that I will share with you that just tugs at my "breeder" heartstrings. Puppy sighs This is one of the neatest stories. You will know precisely what this little girl is talking about at the end (you'll want to share this one with your loved ones and special friends)! "Danielle keeps repeating it over and over again. We've been back to this animal shelter at least five times. It has been weeks now since we started all of this," the mother told the volunteer. "What is it she keeps asking for?" the volunteer asked. "Puppy size!" replied the mother. "Well, we have plenty of puppies, if that's what she's looking for." "I know...we have seen most of them," the mom said in frustration .Just then Danielle came walking into the office. "Well, did you find one?" asked her mom. "No, not this time," Danielle said with sadness in her voice. "Can we come back on the weekend?" The two women looked at each other, shook their heads and laughed "You never know when we will get more dogs. Unfortunately, there's always a supply," the volunteer said. Danielle took her mother by the hand and headed to the door. "Don't worry, I`ll find one this weekend," she said. Over the next few days both mom and dad had long conversations with her. They both felt she was being too particular. "It's this weekend or we're not looking any more," Dad finally said in frustration. "We don't want to hear anything more about puppy size either," Mom added. Sure enough, they were the first ones in the shelter on Saturday morning. By now Danielle knew her way around, so she ran right for the section that housed the smaller dogs. Tired of the routine, mom sat in the small waiting room at the end of the first row of cages. There was an observation window so you could see the animals during times when visitors weren't permitted. Danielle walked slowly from cage to cage, kneeling periodically to take a closer look. One by one the dogs were brought out and she held each one. One by one she said, "Sorry, you're not the one." It was the last cage on this last day in search of the perfect pup. The volunteer opened the cage door and the child carefully picked up the dog and held it closely. This time she took a little longer. "Mom, that's it! I found the right puppy! He's the one! I know it!" she screamed with joy. "It`s the puppy size!" "But it's the same size as all the other puppies you held over the last few weeks," Mom said. "No not size ---- the sighs. When I held him in my arms, he sighed," she said. "Don't you remember? When I asked you one day what love is, you told me love depends on the sighs of your heart. The more you love, the bigger the sigh!" The two women looked at each other for a moment. Mom didn't know whether to laugh or cry. As she stooped down to hug the child, she did a little of both. "Mom, every time you hold me, I sigh. When you and Daddy come home from work and hug each other, you both sigh. I knew I would find the right puppy if it sighed when I held it in my arms," she said. Then holding the puppy up close to her face she said, "Mom, he loves me. I heard the sighs of his heart!" Close your eyes for a moment and think about the love that makes you sigh. I not only find it in the arms of my loved ones, but in the caress of a sunset the kiss of the moonlight and the gentle brush of cool air on a hot day. They are the sighs of God. Take the time to stop and listen; you will be surprised at what you hear. "Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." Good luck Ginny Garden Gairden's Shelties Edmonton AB Canada