To exactly my dimensional specifications. Most cabinet lines are actually "semi-custom," in that you choose a stock finish and door style, but there should be NO fillers and the sizes should be exactly what is ordered. Standard sizes equals stock cabinets, PERIOD.

Fully custom really ought to mean that every detail can be specified, but most dealers call their semi-custom "custom."

Sized to your plans, not predefined units. Usually built by a local cabinetmaker, at his workshop or onsite.

We were very pleasantly surprised to find our custom cabinets were bid and installed at one third the cost of some admittedly premium cabinet lines we were considering. We were able to get some very innovative storage solutions & no space fillers were required.

Agreed. I designed them, the cabinetmaker made them to fit just so. Many are not anything you could buy from a factory. Custom. Including the materials.

Depending on your configuration and cabinet style your layout may require filler (ie frameless requires filler where cabinets meet the wall whether it is stock, semi-custom or custom frameless). I'm not clear what the advantage is of disregarding custom cabinetry produced in a factory as custom? It reads as some sort of manufacturing snobbery but to each his own.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cabinetry definitions

"Custom" is really a buzzword that has a changeable interpretaton depending on who you talk to. Just like "all wood cabinets" can mean many different things to different people depending on who you talk to. And, just like the "all wood cabinet terms", many people buy into some of the hype surrounding the term rather than actually understanding the many grey areas of the term.

True "old fashioned" custom has the ability to be made to exact specifications, and with extended stiles able to be scribed in the field so that no fillers are used for clearance issues. That doesn't mean that it always uses custom dimensions for every cabinet. What usually happens in practicality is that standard dimension cabinets (NOT "stock" cabinets, there IS a difference!) are used for most of the cabinet design with a few custom sized one placed where needed. Unfortunately, every single thing has a line item upcharge, and even in many custom lines, you'll see kitchens with fillers instead because of the substantial cost savings over using a true custom cabinet from that manufacturer in that spot.

And, at the bottom end of the "custom" continuem is the local cabinet maker who orders standard sized doors and drawer fronts from a catalog and boxes from another catalog and then site finishes them himself, usually poorly. He also calls himself a "custom cabinet maker" .

I ordered mine from Crown Point and every detail is full custom. I also found them less expensive than other larger "custom" brands. They are not yet installed but sitting in my dining room. They are beautifully built and finished. I have no fillers. I think these semi-custom brands call their products "custom" just because you have the option of paying them a lot more for true "custom" work.

true custom cabinets (not a company just throwing the word "custom" in to make it sound good or to add extra cost)are:

- ditto what plllog said
- cabinets ANY size (width, depth, height) or shape you want them (17 3/8" wide is not a problem)
- ANY shape - i.e. adjustments to drawers on either side of a 30" oven to allow for venting of 36" induction above the oven with no evidence of the adjustments from the outward appearance
- cabinet maker follows client's sketch of a cabinet, hutch, hood, etc.
- no filler necessary (unless refrigerator is built in and you need allowance for the door to swing open fully - in that case you decide how the filler looks)
- baseboard in any style/design you can imagine
- more paint and stain options

- the BEST part - hearing "that shouldn't be a problem" when you propose something to the cabinet maker :)

Basically, no limits - within reason, of course.

plumeriavine, your Woodmode Custom are NOT custom. They are semi-custom. If they were custom, you would not be having the trouble with them that you are having. Custom cabinets fit the kitchen, rather than making the kitchen fit the cabinets.

Wood-Mode is a custom line (you can see their obviously custom product in many magazines). However they make the cabinets according to the specs provided by the dealer - if the dealer doesn't order the correct sizes for the kitchen then at install you are left to try to fit the kitchen to incorrectly ordered cabinets. Also plumeriavine ordered frameless - frameless does not accomodate extended stiles (still filler in my book) - because the doors cover the box the vertical seams where you use the filler for clearances are not visible when the cabinet doors are closed - because the doors do cover the box you must have filler for clearance purposes (custom or not). I suspect that plumeriavne's designer didn't have much experience, particularly with frameless or mistakes like the use of the inset drawer cabinets on either side of the sink cabinet wouldn't have happened - that's just bad design.

The notion that "custom" cabinets can't come from a factory is as false as false as the notion that "custom" denotes quality.

My current kitchen is completely custom - not one cabinet is a standard dimension:

Impressed? Yeah me either, I can't wait to replace it with some good quality stock cabinetry.

Here's another way of looking at it:

STOCK = frozen food at the grocery store. Each meal is pre-prepared and you can not ask them to "hold" the spinach or swap it out for green beans. Stock cabinets are literally already built and ready to ship. The selections are what they are. You can not change any of them.

SEMI-CUSTOM = A meal at a restaurant like Chili's. Substitute rice for potatoes please. And add a side salad please, extra ranch. (But don't order Kung Pao Chicken. It's not on the menu and they will not make it for you.) Semi custom lines offer many options, but not limitless. You can only change the options within the realm of what they actually can make.

CUSTOM = Your live in chef, trained in all cuisines, who prepares a meal to your specifications. "George, we're in the mood for leg of lamb in mint, watercress salad with cranberries, and a berry tart for dessert tonight."

Here is a link that might be useful: Our bungalow and kitchen remodel blog

Custom to me is completely hand made by a cabinet maker.
histokitch is right, Crown Point is one company that custom makes your cabinets. We toured there entire shop and it was most informative and interesting. Wish they had been in our price range but we have local cabinet makers that do really good work.

So if the same person works on it then it's "hand made". Makes me think of the old adage "jack of all trades master of none". I toured a fairly large local custom cabinet manufacturer and was of the impression that their set-up was quite similar to many factories (on a smaller scale) where you have the folks who machine, the ones who assemble and perhaps most importantly those who finish - the people who machine don't work in the finish shop because it isn't their area of expertise. Given the quality of the Crown Point product can't imagine that the same person who oversees the machining is the same person overseeing the finishing, if that's what you saw then that must be the way it is.

The OP wanted to know what our definitions of 'custom' were so no wrong answers but if I think 'custom' means that the cabinet manufacturer grows the trees, mills them himself, machines them by hand and then stains them using natural extracts from plants it doesn't really have any bearing on what "custom" really means in relation to the manufacturing of cabinetry in the real world. Of course if your cabinets don't meet my criteria then obviously they aren't really "custom".

In the UK they use the term "bespoke", to signify goods that are made to measure, one at at time.
"Custom kitchen" in USA realtor's parlance seems to mean anything that's not rank, bog-standard builder's grade.
Casey

LOL festusbodine - perfect illustration!

I would definitely define custom as "no filler". There may be extended stiles for door clearance and wall scribing purposes in specific spots, but that's not the same thing as filler (no extra seams). If you're building the cabinets exactly to fit a specific spot, there's no need for pieces of wood stuck in between anywhere. With custom they are exactly as deep and as wide as you want, no more or less.

Not having any official cabinet-buying experience, I don't have an opinion re. whether "real" custom is available from a factory. I don't see why not, Caryscott, but I can see how much more expensive this would be than a guy in my kitchen with his tape measure, ready to fiddle as necessary. We had a few changes and adjustments to make as we went along, and I can't imagine having to ship the darned things back with minute instructions every time, rather than having the carpenter take an hour and whip up a new panel in the basement. :-)

Custom is if I need a box that is 21 3/8" and the answer is "no problem".

Hmm- extended stiles - - Something new to learn about.

On my particular kitchen contract, the kitchen I ordered was a framed kitchen. The designer substituted frameless on her own without a refund of the price difference or a change order or approval.

I've struggled to figure all of this out and I've had to sort out a lot of the nonsense that I have been told. Unravelling everything has been incredibly difficult as we've been obstructed and misinformed over and over again.

Extended stiles with framed cabinetry - - can anyone explain on this further? How is an extended stile manipulated on "custom" framed cabinetry?

Sure, you can get that 21 3/8" box in most custom lines, no problem. You just have to pay for the priviledge. That's a pretty important point, and it's why most people who choose "custom" don't really end up getting those oddball sized cabinets everywhere. It's COSTLY to do this. And most people have to cust costs somewhere. To save money, many many people's "custom" cabinets are from a custom cabinet line, but are not really custom dimensions. ANd unless the KD explains this, they never understand it.

"You can certainly get that 21 3/8" box to fit there next to your doorway, but it will cost double the price of a regular 21" cabinet and a filler."

Instead, many KDs do a "budget filtering" dialogue with a customer. "Yes, we can meet your budget number. I'll make some tweaks." But they don't communicate exactly what those tweaks are, and if your order is suddenly 2K cheaper because those 2 custom dimension cabinets are now regular dimensions plus fillers, then some people are just happy to have the "custom" label at 2K cheaper. Some are not. That's why fully communicating with the KD on the details is important. It's a two way street. KD's shouldn't "prefilter" their price communications to customers, but customers should expect that if they have certain expectations, they are going to have to pay the price for those expectations.

Caryscott, I was answering the question How would YOU define "custom" cabinets? not addressing the OP's context. I figured she was looking for MY definition because of the all caps.

Can true custom be made in a factory? Sure. But any time you're dealing with standard dimensions, materials and finishes you're not getting true custom. You're getting customized stock. When I factory order a car to suit me I'm still buying stock, just choosing the exact options to suit me rather than dealer ordered packages. When my friend builds his own, down to milling parts, and mixing paint, it's custom. One can get a more customized Range Rover. They'll match the paint to your swatch, and use your designer's custom fabric, they'll bulletproof it, and do other required modifications, but underneath it all, it's still the same drive train, on the same chassis, with the same shaped body. It's customized stock, but it's stock.

I asked for particular kinds of materials and my cabinetmaker found them. That's the door front material, the plywood for the boxes and drawers, and the finishes. I designed shapes that aren't "normal". He made the corner drawers originally according to Blum's plans, and I redesigned them, then he improved my design. That's the actual shape of the drawer. Everything is scribed into place, including the foreman spending a long time matching up the grain on the top molding to the grain on the cabinets. There are no fillers. Even the hinge hardware is specified for each door and drawer. No, didn't grow the trees or mine the metal, but took the materials available in the vast marketplace of the world and combined them in a completely custom way.

That's how I define custom. The only way to be more custom would be if they were built in place rather than in a workshop so wouldn't need boxes.

I think LWO has pegged why we all think custom comes from the local small cabinetmaker's shop. Custom costs too much from a factory. My cabinetmakers make their own shop drawings, and don't require you to hire a designer unless you want one. There's no way to communicate true custom to a remote factory without working plans made by a qualified person. Add to that the upcharge for not buying stock and you have a big fee.

The experience of most people who've reported here is that a local cabinetmaker can give you true custom for half the cost of a factory (and I think that meant stock, though perhaps both). Plus they're onsite to fix any small defects or miscalculations, and to do all the tweaks to make it just right. My cabinetmaker said that if I could sketch it he could make it, and he's made good on it--with no upcharge for anything but the special hardware. That is, if he had to buy it, I paid for it. If he could make it, it was included.

FWIW, we're looking at two custom options: one that's a small local cabinet shop, and one that's a larger more widely distributed (but still far from "factory") line. In both cases, the shops work with specific woods---a pretty wide range, but still some limitations (e.g., I can't request bamboo from either)---because that's what their experience is in. I would absolutely still consider both shops "custom," though, because I am giving them exact dimensions and drawings, and they are making what's in the drawings. The local shop does have a big advantage in that they'd do the install, too, and would have an opportunity to tweak things as plllog says. However, if I lived near the other shop, they'd do the same for me; it's just a distance factor. (The reason they're in the mix for us is b/c they can offer some finishes that local shops can't, being a state away and under different environmental laws. So there are benefits and tradeoffs.)

An extended faceframe stile is used where you require some extra clearance to avoid conflict, OR you need to scribe to something on-site, like brick or stone, and yet reject the idea of a filler strip.
Casey

rey , smile and others -

"custom" is not defined by the lack of fillers, and nor should you consider the use of them a bad thing.

Have walls in your kitchen and have a knob or handle on your door and drawer fronts? Then you are going to have to have a filler with frameless cabinets and an extended or oversized stile with framed and you would not be able to do full overlay doors at all! You could design around it with framed inset but you would sacrifice storage space for the no filler req.

Fillers are used so that knobs and appliance handles can clear adjacent walls and cabinetry . Have a handle that projects a long way? A larger filler is going to be needed. Have 15 3/32" left over on the left end of your bar's wall cabinets? Your custom maker could make you a full overlay cabinet at exactly 15 3/32" wide but then waht if the wall is a bit out of plumb? Want the handmade birdcage knob to dent the sheetrock/plaster or maybe that $250 a roll Brunschweig wallpaper?

How about the 22 1/16" left for the base cabinets in the corner near the door and you want it to be a drawer stack? If you use standard 3/4" casing your drawers are not going to open all the way (again assumes full overlay). What if you use custom casings that are nearly 2" thick at the backband? Houw about that really tall (8") baseboard that covers that drawerstack 4" and prevents it from opening?

True custom cabinet makers - any size, shape, material and finish may not exist anymore. The fella/firm that makes beautiful beaded inset door cabinets with a painted finish is not likely to do an all metal cabinet very well or cost effectively. Nor is the firm that makes frameless curved front high gloss lacquer cabinets going to be very adept at producing a framed cabinet out of reclaimed knotty hickory. I challenge all you "custom" aficionados to find a guy to make me an ALL glass wall cabinet - that means the door , the sides, the top and bottom as well as the back too!

Takeaways:

Fillers are not substandard or a sign of lack of quality

True custom is very expensive, probably doesn't exist, few can afford it if it does, and better values can be found if your project falls outside a particular custom shop's area of expertise.

Custom is not always better than a semi- custom cabinet - doubt anyone here want scott's custom cabs over a set of semi-custom WodeModes.

n.b. - pllog - when firms armour an automobile the suspension, drivetrain and usually the powerplant are upgraded. About the only time they wouldn't be would be for a light package that would only stop rounds from small handguns.

thanks antss for your comments about fillers - I have custom frameless cabinets made by someone local and we needed two fillers - one in the corner next to the range so the drawer could open without hitting the oven handle and one next to the hood so the angled cabinet door can open (that one could have been avoided had we not used an angled cabinet there.) I was really surprised at the above discussion about how custom cabinets never require fillers!

In my case, some of what I expected with "custom" Wood-Mode was that:

1) my cabinets would fit into the desired footprints, no ifs ands or buts or 9 inch discrepancies

2) my cabinets would reflect my musts: the sink will be centered in the window per the drawings, for example

3) my cabinets would look like the drawings discussed - proportions would be adhered to, for example.

4) my cabinets would have the types of drawers I specifically wanted, not a substitution of a metal drawer.

Were these examples of my expectations for custom cabinetry unreasonable?

For what it is worth, I did indeed pay top dollar and I had other bids from other Wood-Mode dealers for my custom kitchen. I did not barter down the price and then expect custom anyways.

If you want a seamless look, you have to eschew fillers, and go with extended stiles, because a plain flat filler gives you a seam.
Solid fluted (or otherwise ornamented) fillers are a different story, as well as fillers that transition a change in plane for whatever design reason, like a filler with a 45* face.
Casey

"True custom is very expensive, probably doesn't exist, few can afford it if it does, and better values can be found if your project falls outside a particular custom shop's area of expertise. "

I disagree. My cabinets are true custom. My cabinet guy buys sheets of plywood for the boxes, and stacks of solid lumber to make drawers and door fronts out of, in any size I want. And it cost me only $1500 more than IKEA was going to cost me. The ONLY filler I have is at the end of run, right next to the wall and it's less than an inch wide. And one other place because I wanted stacked upper cabinets and we needed a place for the crown to end on the shorter stack. That's about as custom as you can get! Why do you think that "true custom" does not exist anymore?? MANY small cabinet shops specialize in custom, making the boxes and the door fronts themselves in any size.

Also regarding filler. If a piece of wood is needed to keep door knobs from banging together, it is not a filler but a functional spacer. A filler is when the sizes of the boxes don't match the space, so filler is used to fill the space in.

does extended stile mean extended face frame?

Anyone have a pic?

antss: Here are two lines from my 1st post that you may have missed:

" no filler necessary (unless refrigerator is built in and you need allowance for the door to swing open fully - in that case you decide how the filler looks)"

"Basically, no limits - within reason, of course."

The first one refers to clearances (I mentioned the refrigerator example, but it applies to other areas in the kitchen, as in your examples); the second is obvious (such as your example of an all glass wall cabinet).

In your words, "True custom is very expensive..." I certainly agree with you there. As plllog mentioned, "The experience of most people who've reported here is that a local cabinetmaker can give you true custom for half the cost of a factory (and I think that meant stock, though perhaps both)." That wasn't our experience - more like the other way around. I'm not doubting nor questioning others' experience in regards to the cost, and I'm glad they were able to find those savings. However, I, for one, can't make that statement, and I know there are others that fall in that same category with me.

"True custom" is also evident in the personalized service. At one point in our design stage, our contractor scheduled a meeting at our home with the kitchen consultant, the contractor VP, and the cabinet maker. He brought his CAD program & computer and he started our meeting by listening to my needs and desires and asking several questions. After 3 1/2 hrs., we had a layout, that was unique to our particular needs and desires. That's an example of what a local (if 1 hour away is considered local) custom cabinet maker is willing to do for his clients. I'm sure we paid for those 3 hours somewhere in our bill, but we're completely satisfied with the workmanship, the quality of materials, and how he took our ideas and my sketches and made them a reality.

(I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that he and his partner put in some long hours on the weekend to work on the cabinets, and then deliverd them as soon as they were completed over the next 4 days, because they knew we were getting "antsy" in waiting to have them installed. His partner came one day to ensure all looked well and there were no problems. I highly doubt that happens with stock cabinets.)

You also said "Custom is not always better than a semi- custom cabinet". I doubt there are many that would disagree with that, especially in the case of scott's cabs. However, I'd venture a guess that most that have seem "true custom" cabinets can easily recognize and appreciate their worth and would never confuse them with stock or semi-stock.

SO....I guess in a round-about, lengthy, way I'm saying I agree with much of what you said, but I thought it necessary to clarify some things that you may have been misunderstood in my (and others') original post.

plumeriavine,

Attached is a pdf from Conestoga Woods with a line drawing of an extended stile on page 1. The rest of the PDF catalogues for this RTA product are quite useful to help understand assembly and options with framed cabinetry. If you go to the Accessories pdf you will note that they only offer fillers (no spacers). If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

Point taken in a lot of the circumstances where you need fillers\spacers with frameless you would use extended stiles with framed so you don't get that vertical seam (the extended stile is still concealing space that you are still not able to make use of).

None of your expectations were unreasonable but I am wagering that Wood-Mode produced the cabinets to the specifications they were provided with by the dealer.

Here is a link that might be useful: pg1 is a line drawig of an extended stile

All the cabinets in my home are "custom" built by a small cabinet shop, which is typical of new construction in my area. Even starter homes here have "custom" cabinets, built to fit the specs of the space they go into.

coombs - you are right . what I meant to say was "a true custom shop" and evidenced the wide range of disciplines that a true custom shop would have to cover.

2. one filler is still a filler. so, under rey's strict , but unaccurate definition you don't have custom cabinets! Like I said (s)he is incorrect and a filler is not the end of the world.

3. for most custom is more than just about odd sizes. Will your guy make me a curved front cabinet with a slab door out of ovangkol or masur birch veneer with a 3mm solid edge? Would / could he source the masur birch or have equipment to do 3mm edges?

- he could make custom cabinets but wouldn't be a true custom house by my standard which was my initial point, although a hyper technical one.

Smile - kitchens still need clearances so room mouldings can be avoided and walls kept dent free from hardware. These require fillers or extended frames which are ipso facto "fillers" whether you agree with definition or not.

2. Again fillers or lack of do not define custom work and are not sub standard!

3. All glass cabinets are available in the marketplace, so the request is a reasonable one even if not practical.

4. personalized service can come at any level and C. Peacock, Smallbone, SieMatic are all going to stroke your ego, provide nice quality stuff , hold your hand and have great designs. None are custom per se though all are made to measure.

5. disagree that those that have seen true custom that are "slapped together" even with no fillers would choose that over a kitchen from the above three " semi-custom " firms. Scott's is not an isolated incident and this discussion is not a hypothetical exercise in a vacuum. The details and specifics matter and herin lies the rub with broad statements like "custom is better".

Here is a link that might be useful: {{gwi:1703231}}

"Sized to your plans, not predefined units. Usually built by a local cabinetmaker, at his workshop or onsite. "

Yup. If and when I FINALLY get to re-do my kitchen...I'm calling the local cabinet maker who made this floating buffet for the previous owner of our house:
{{gwi:1649910}}

Gorgeous work. I wish the PO's had that company do the kitchen as well...I think they must've run out of money.

it means i have a nice guy at my disposal who will take my calls whenever the mood strikes. and when said nice guy answers phone, he listens to my every whim and desire and replies: "no problem".

and then several months later i walk into my kitchen and all my dreams have miraculously come true. perfect.

Clarification; All of my cabinets (full overlay), not just against walls, have a wide trim on the outside edge, I think an inch and a half. This is an aesthetic choice, but it also serves against walls where y'all are talking about needing filler for the knob.

kateskouros, I'm with you! Loved the guy we used and his cute dog who was in his shop, and the guys I met who cut the wood and mixed the finish for my cabinets. They worked with me and made sure I was happy, and now I give them referrals.

I consider my cabinets custom, because they were sized to my requests (e.g., 39" counters), to my space, and to fit the pots and pans I measured. My cabinet guy showed me samples of woods with different stains. When I didn't see exactly what I wanted, he created a new sample door for me based on a picture I gave him. I don't care if they're custom, semi-custom, whatever... I just know that they work for me!

FYI they were less than the cabinets we priced out at (now closed) Expo.

I would certainly classify our cabinet maker's work as "custom." He had to retrain me, after my time spent with a couple of KDs, to think in terms of what I wanted, rather in terms of what was available. For example, several things I wanted to do on my pantry wall were proclaimed as "can't do" by the KD. When I asked the cabinet maker about the same features, he said "of course we can do that."

One more thing...after living with my kitchen for two years, I've discovered a few things I want to change. My cabinet maker is coming out to determine how (not if) he can accommodate my wishes. THAT is custom cabinetry!

For me the word "custom" is used much too loosely. What I call custom is when I build a piece for someone that is unique only to them. With kitchens it's a little different. Unless you create a unique door style or something, I see it as the flexibility to build cabinets to fit the space and offer a variety of features and finishes. I don't consider something like an inside corner a filler if it's part of the design. To me a filler is a cheap fix to "fill" a space you don't know what to do with.

antss - Some of us out here do have diverse skills and CAN do a high-gloss polished finish (although I wouldn't use lacquer, I'd use an Italian 2K Poly from Melesi or Renner) as well as a multi-stepped aged finish and do it at the highest level. I could also build you that ALL glass cabinet you're talking about using UV cured adhesive. You seem very knowledgeable about things. Why haven't we seen something "custom" you've built? I do agree with you though there are a lot of so called "custom" shops out there that don't have the talent and varied skill set to compete with the top level cabinet lines. After doing it for more than thirty years I feel I'm starting to get it. John

John - do you do radius and inset cabinetry work on a regular basis too? What about veneer? Sounds like you are truely a rare breed.

My point being that most shops tend to focus of specialize in a particular area, it's not that all don't have the talent or skill, some do. It's just that those that do have this talent don't have a market for the diversity and then their skills erode and their ranks are shrinking.

Few people can, and even less are willing to pay for the skill set we are talking about here.

Antss,

What you say is true, and I'm not really debating it, but in my experience with artisans, there's a trade-off between time and money. There's a certain skill level that can accomplish almost anything, but if it's a less familiar task, the artisan will take more time perfecting instead of doing it by rote. The ones who are eager for the challenge don't charge for their extra time. The ones who'd rather whomp out what they're accustomed to are more likely to charge extra to make you go find someone else, or for a "nuisance fee".

My question is: How do you go about finding someone locally who can build wonderful custom cabinets and doesn't overcharge for them? I don't know where to start.

Happy, nothing can beat word of mouth. I have used two local cabinetmakers who are both fantastic. They're not bargains because they do top end stuff, but for the same quality, much less than a major line.

If you're looking for the best of the best, start asking where the price is no object people hang out: The country club, garden club, private school, etc. For good quality, but more basic work, try the PTA, church, volunteer organizatoins. Schmooze. Talk to people.

Do you know any trades that you trust? Ask your plumber. Go to the building supply and schmooze the folks who've worked there a long time. See if they know anyone (that one takes more time and smoozing power). Ask everyone you know!

Also, try Angie's list and similar resources, though you might find that the best don't really like referral services like that because they get a lot of people bothering them who aren't serious or who want them to do things out of code and otherwise poorly.

question for Plume - a little off-topic, but just curious. You said you had bids from several Wood Mode dealers. How did you end up choosing the one you ultimately (and unfortunatley) ended up with?

I don't mind answering that. We didn't go with the low bid. We went with someone who was local and offered comprehensive design and build services. We discovered their kitchen services through word of mouth.

I have made a mistake in my understanding of "custom" which only bothers me when I let it bother me.

I assumed that "custom" meant "creative artistry" as well as the potential for pieces tailored to a particular use. My custom shop can make specialized cupboards for my kitchen. Hey, they do what they do with great skill and competence. They can make their arsenal of power tools run and jump and sing. Given my situation and my budget and my communication skills, I'm getting custom cupboardry. But when it's all done, it's going to look a lot like other kitchen cupboardry. Competent, workmanlike, made for me.

If you have found a shop that can go beyond that, you've found something beyond custom.

Well, the bright side florantha is that they do make things for you with great skill and competence.

Is there a communication problem with the cabinet maker?

I am a victim of my own assumptions. My dad was a custom carpenter. We'd get phone calls saying "I saw the eating nook you built at X's house and I know that you would be the man to help me..."

Dad chose every board personally, sighting down it and returning any defective ones to the lumber pile. (This drove the lumberyard nuts.) He learned through a long apprenticeship with his own father and grandpa's partner. He had to prove his worth to those old Swedish craftsmen over and over again.

But Dad did not have a millwork setup, he had a set of phone numbers of guys who had lathes and planes and whatever was needed for creating millwork and they knew their craft. Same with hardware resources, flooring, plumbing. A network of craftsmen and specialty vendors. When the post-WWII building boom came along, these men were eventually driven out by the big developers. Dad became carpenter foreman at VA hosp. and drove workers nuts with his high standards. His supervisor considered him invaluable. On the side, he did custom carpentry.

So what's my point? I thought I was hiring Dad and his cohort. Instead, I've hired a man who is very good at making things that are currently in style. He can duplicate things he sees around him, but the vision is limited by his experience. I asked about some custom tooling down the spacers at the bumpout; he conveniently forgot about it. I asked about a pattern to add to the inside of the "shaker" doors and he told us to do it ourselves. I said I would buy the knives for the cuts and donate them to the shop and he said, "Nah, we'll just misplace them and no one will want that style ever again anyway. I'll give them to you." He wanted to apply dummy trim to places that have no doors, but I said NO, that those were places for a towel bar, a framed piece of art, etc. I wanted them plain. It took him two go-rounds on his computer rendition to get this right. To his credit, he did remember that we asked for a paintable surface on the outside of the peninsula, to add color and contrast and continuity along a hall-like portion of the room that connects to our new lobby.

This man is more accommodating than the other custom shop that bid out the job at an additional $5000, though. Talking to them was like talking to a patronizing jerk. Our man wants to please us and he wants to give his workers some hours. He adds his suggestions and I do listen. It's just that he is a man limited by the bulk processing machinery he uses, the machinery of a modern shop, not one with a library of hand tools and specimens of historic trims to consult. His glass samples "are here someplace" and when he finds them, he clearly is not familiar with them so I could as well be somewhere else looking at specimens. I asked him to save me pieces of scrap oak to mess with for stain effects and he sent me a single 1.5 foot board. I suppose this is a communication problem, or perhaps a generational one.

On the bright side, the shop hopes to photo our kitchen if it works out so that they can attract more customers like us!