20 yr old crf cat doing very well on chinese herbs and azodyl

16 years ago

Our cat Cleo is 20 years old now and is having kidney problems. She is not our first CRF cat. We were very sad and frustrated when we realized she was losing weight and we suspected kidney problems. We have 2 vets. One is a holistic vet and the other is a regular vet. I am posting on this list because we have been very successful in treating our Cleo's kidney problem. We are using chinese herbal medicine combined with Azodyl and Epakitin. She is actually gaining weight and has gone from needing to be on an IV to 1 sub Q per day and now 1 Sub Q every 4 days. Our vet is very suprised that her levels have gone to almost normal. She also eats CRF foods from Purina, Medical and Science Diet KD wet plus KD dry. Although sometime we even cheat and give her a teaspoon of meat every 3 days or so.

The chinese herbs we are using are:

Ba Wei Di Huang Wan

Useful for improve kidney performance, or profuse clear urine.

Wei Ling Tang

For appetite and kidney support

We make gelatin capsules (00) size. We fill the larger part of the capsule with Ba Wei Di Huang Wan powder and the smaller part of the capsule with Wei Ling Tang powder.

We give her 1 capsule per day of the chinese herbs and a capsule per day of Azodyl ( this is a probiotic bacteria that supposedly helps the body filter toxins in the blood)

We mix 1/2 scoop per day of Epakitin into her food. The scoop is provided with the Epakitin.

Her recovery has been remarkable. We really want to share this information in the hope that someone else may be able to help their pet. We don't know how long she will survive like this but the initial results are very promising. Her quality of life is excellent, and we couldn't have done it without the holistic vet and our regular vet's treatments both combined.

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Anne_Marie_Alb

16 years ago

Hi Laurie!
So very right, of course. When a pet is on several treatments, it is very hard to correctly attribute the improvement to a specific one, especially in relation to timing. And as you have taught me, sub-Q fluids are the best thing you can do for a CRF cat! Still, I had to try those herbs, especially after our vet's recommendations.
Anne-Marie

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Comments (9)

Anne_Marie_Alb
16 years ago
That's so interesting! Our 13 year old cat (in probably late stage CRF) just started seeing a holistic vet, so I will have to ask him about these Chinese herbs. So far he has administered B12 injections in the kidney points weekly for the last 3 weeks, and we are going back on Friday. The B12 helps his appetite for a day or so. Although he does not eat much at a time, eating is not a serious problem. This holistic vet has also prescribed Epakitin for him (he has been on it for 10 days). The problem with our cat is that he has high levels of phosphorus (12.7 mg/dl) and a high calcium level (just above the range). Because Epakitin is a calcium-based binder, I am not sure it is really good for him. He is also anemic, and has had constipation issues for a long time. He is just starting receiving fluids on a daily (as opposed to twice a week) basis at home, and this seems to be quite helpful. I don't know about Cleo, but our cat is all skin and bones (just above 5lbs).

Anyway, I thank you for posting about the holistic treatment for Cleo. I will mention these herbs to our vet.
Anne-Marie
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Anne_Marie_Alb
16 years ago
And our vet highly recommended both of these herbs.. Our cat just started the first one (Ba Wei Di Huang Wan). We'll wait on the second one as the gelcaps were so big, we did not think our cat would take well to them!
Thanks again for your information. I'll report back in a while.
All our best to Cleo,
Anne-Marie
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Hi dmb, I am so sorry to hear about your predicament with your 19 year old cat but I have to say that I thought I was reading about my 18 year old female cat when reading your cat's symptoms. I am at the same place you are - what to do now? However I have gone one step further than you and thought this migh thelp you. I have been giving my cat the Sub Q fluids for her renal failure for the last 2 years now and she really rallied once I started to that. Also at the same time I have been giving her renal support probiotics (2 kinds) to support her kidneys and that plus the fluids gave her back a couple of years for sure. However about 2 weeks ago she started to bang into things and I realized she had gone blind and that my stupid Vet hadn't ever mentioned blood pressure taking especially if the cat has thyroid or kidney issues and my cat has both. She had the radioactive iodine treatment about 3 years ago so I was expecting the kidney issues but after I reached out to a different Vet they told me that her blood pressure probably caused the blindness together with the renal or the thyroid issues. Her thyroid might have gotten worse despite the iodine treatments. Sigh. The new Vet said that she probably had a stroke during the night that I didnt know of and that she was totally blind. I was so upset. Also she has gone totally deaf before this stroke so now she is deaf and blind and last week she took a step backwards and seemed to be acting confused like she did when she had the first stroke. She was starting to adapt to being blind and had figured out where to jump and where not to and I was so excited then she took a backslide. Another stroke? Who knows. I really think you should try the Sub Q and the 2 renal support powders that you just mix into your cats meals (wet is best in food for this) and you will notice a big difference in her health. However the deafness and blindness is another thing. I am trying to decide if her quality of life is worth keeping her going. Now she is so blind that she just seems to be giving up and laying down wherever she is and just goes back to sleep and this is so unlike her. Also she is getting grouchy (Himalyan) and never was like that before. Now she only responds to touch and when I touch her she knows it's either to put a needle behind her neck for the sub q fluids or to stick a pill down her throat for high blood pressure or to move her to the litter box so when I just pick her up to pat her she growls. I mean what kind of life is this now? I don't know. She has been the best cat ever, always gentle and loving and she appears okay in other ways. She is still grooming herself, eating well, pooping well etc but I know her kidneys won't last forever and with the blindness and with no hearing I just don't know. I am giving her a blood pressure med ever since a new med took her blood pressure 2 weeks ago but like I said since that she has slipped. I don't envy your situation because it's mine too but maybe try the sub q and renal support and the blood pressure meds and see what you think. The best of luck with whatever your decision is. I know you will make the decision with love and respect for the cat no matter what. My prayers are with you and your pet.
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I have given fluids over the years to 3 cats including my 18 yr old girl who is still with me. 100 or 110 ml has been the prescribed dose per day all at one time (although my kitties only required fluids once or twice weekly.) I think this is pretty much standard dose for a cat. Every cat is different but most seem to handle this amount of fluids without discomfort. Mine all just lay on my lap and purr(ed). Are you sure that your cat feels discomfort from the fluids? The reason I wonder is that you say she is good about getting the fluid treatment. Most cats do not hesitate to show their objection to a treatment they dislike. One thing you could do to reduce discomfort is to request size 20 gage needles rather than the 18 gage that vets for some reason like to dispense. The 20 g is smaller and less painful to insert. Relief from the discomfort of dehydration is very rapid after fluids are administered and it is my belief that pets can connect the dots and realize that the fluids make them feel better. Certainly the nausea, headache and loss of appetite and coordination evaporate very quickly after an intake of sub-q fluids. And I can attest from experience that dehydration is extremely uncomfortable. If it were me I'd try the 100 ml. It is a standard dose and could be the 75 ml is not enough to help your cat at this point.
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Well, I will share some of my experience with you and hope that it helps some. I am not in a good frame of mind this morning, so forgive me if this is choppy. I've been dealing with a CRF cat for 4.5 years. I hear ya on tired and frustrated! My experience has been that the ups and downs happen frequently. More than once I've looked at my kitty and thought, "This is it." From time to time she will be "off" for a few days at a time. Three years ago in October she went under the bed for 2 days and did not want to come out. She looked so sorry that I didn't give her fluids, and couldn't bring myself to give her her thyroid meds (bad, I know, but it was a call in the moment). I was surprised when she just bounced back about the time we got in to see the vet. That was the point I stopped focusing so much on doing everything medically right, and just started doing what was right for her day to day. If she wanted to eat "junk food" because it was all that would go down and stay down, so be it. How are your temperatures where you live? My cat does much worse in cooler weather. She is antsy and uncomfortable when the temperature of the house gets under 70F. She will huddle up under blankets, or act agitated and only calm down if she is held or cuddled. Given she is quite thin, I suspect she is incapable of staying very warm on her own. I tried to give her a heated bed, but for whatever reason, she does not like it. I understand that your situation is a bit different because of the cancer. My little boy buddy cat passed away from cancer in 09. He did not have CRF, but with the blessing of the vet, we gave him fluids the last couple weeks of his life to prevent him from getting dehydrated until he told us he was ready. One day the fluids were helping him to still enjoy some quality of life, and the next day I felt like I was giving him fluids only to prolong the inevitable--- it is just something you know when you love them. But along those same lines, he was getting so dehydrated without fluids that I would not have just stopped them and let him be. Do you know how to test your cat for dehydration by pulling up the skin on her neck? I'm so sorry, I know there are no easy answers. This is a day by day thing. Do what is right for today to give her some enjoyment and quality of life- whether it is a certain food, or some extra warmth, or a birdfeeder by the window, or her fluids. Then start with a clean slate tomorrow and decide how her quality of life is, and what you can do to make it a good day. I wish you all the best, it is so very difficult. (((HUGS)))
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Meghane
16 years ago
Thank you for posting this. I will keep this info handy for my clients.
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laurief_gw
16 years ago
This is very interesting information. Thank you for posting it. In order to put it into perspective, though, it would be extremely helpful to know when Cleo was first diagnosed, what her blood values and weight were at that time, and what her blood values and weights have been in subsequent tests relative to the timing of the administrations of the Chinese herbs, Azodyl, Epakitin, and subQ fluids. Also, have you given her any other meds, supplements, or treatments along the way? I would be very grateful if you could provide that additional information.

I hope Cleo continues to do well for you.

Laurie
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kitkogirl_yahoo_com
16 years ago
I tried to send this email...had some problems...sorry if it's a duplicate. My CRF kitty is supposed to start his first dose of Azodyl today...how do you get that capsule in a cat?? Can you insert it in his throat/mouth and then squirt a little water in there from a syringe? Also, he started eating dirt this week. I've heard that could be anemia, but he had a blood panel done today, and he's only mildy anemic. Do you have any ideas about that? Thanks everyone...Kris
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irina9893
9 years ago
Thank you for sharing this information about your cat's sickness! My cat is very sick. He's 12 years old and very sick with kidney's disease. I might try to give him herbal medicine, but I would like more information. Do you know any site that I could order the herbs from?
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User
9 years ago
irina,

No disrespect... however this thread is eight years old. You may wish to start a new thread asking for advice.
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rnlnee
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Irina,

My cat 15y/o has kidney disease and I am treating her with "Kidney Support Gold" and "Old Friend" for over a year, which can be found at:

http://www.petwellbeing.com/c/cat-products/condition/kidney--renal

Try also the pro-biotics, they are quite helpful.

The second type of supplements I am also using is "Feline Renal Support" from Standard Process. Ask any holistic veterinarian to help you purchase it as it's only sold through veterinarians. It can also be found from Dr. Gardner, just ask the company in the link below.

For food, the best I could find is a low-protein raw using a special premix which is easy to prepare, you can find it at:

http://felineinstincts.com/feline-instincts-crf-my-natural-kidney-support-diet/

Contact them to help you with the recipe, because it's easy to make but is not always very clear from the instructions. This is very good food and recommend it.

They also sell a pouch of Chicken liver powder to sprinkle on the raw food to help the kitty eat, and another supplement called "Rena G.O", which I am trying now.

And last but not least, if your kitty is feeling unwell, give her sub-Qs fluid asap. It will help to stabilize her.

All the best to you and your kitty.
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20 yr old crf cat doing very well on chinese herbs and azodyl

Anne_Marie_Alb

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Anne_Marie_Alb

Anne_Marie_Alb

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