How do you know when it's time?

16 years ago

My cat saw another vet yesterday, a different one than she'd seen before. It's a neurological problem, she said, and we can do what we can to make her comfortable, but the truth is, she's 17, and ...

The discussion went on from there and the short of it is that i have a decision to make, and i'm having a really hard time sorting out my feelings.

I've kind of been "in denial" about her condition. It's been getting progressively worse over the course of several months, but i just haven't been connecting the dots.

I was shocked to learn she's lost weight, because i've been giving her two cans of quality food a day. But i also realized that the dry food, which i used to have to refill every other day, has pretty much remained untouched for the past several weeks. So she really hasn't been eating the way she used to. And she's been vomiting more frequently. Thus, the weight loss. She's 7.6 pounds, i think the vet said.

And there have been days when there would be nothing at all in the litter box, and i realized how odd it is for me to be delighted to have pee or poop to scoop. I've been taking her little "accidents" as a normal part of aging, and just did my best to clean up after her. But now she's totally incontinent, seems to have lost the nerve function that tells her it's time to go to her litter box. Her bottom is wet all the time.

And of course there's the lameness. It breaks my heart to watch her hobble along, but hobble she does, and although it looks awkward, she doesn't seem to be pained by it.

And the dilated eye. But she can see, so how bad is that really ...

There are a few more issues here and there, but you kind of get the point. And i just can't figure out what to do. Because she's still capable of sitting in the sun and enjoying the light. She'll still purr when i pet her and buck my head with her own. So i don't know what to do ...

Is it too soon? Is it irrisponsible to let her get worse? Must she be in constant pain for that decision to be justified?

And moreover, what is motivating ME? Am i frustrated with having to clean up after her messes? Am i just frustred to smell urine everywhere, unable as i am to track every spot where she's sat and leaked? And to have to throw away blankets? Am i considering putting her to sleep for housekeeping reasons?

Or because it hurts ME to see her hobble as she does while she's really fine with it?

I just don't know what to do you guys. My husband and i had a big fight about it last night, because i think neither of us can deal with the realities of this ... or are the realities not as bad as we think?

How do we know what to do? I don't know how to calibrate the facts, much less sort out the emotions. I'm at a total loss ...

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (13)

annzgw
16 years ago
Does the vet think the incontinence is due to the 'stroke'? Did he test for bladder or urinary tract infection? Any chance of trying some of the meds on the market for incontinence......just in case it's not all neurological?
In your first post you mentioned she was using the litterbox but it appears that since she's been on the steroid she's becoming more incontinent. It's possible the steroid is part of the cause since it makes them thirsty, which leads to more urination. Is the steroid, Prednisone?

I can understand your frustration.........I've been there as have others here, but I would investigate all possible treatments for the incontinence before giving up.
In the meantime, to make life easier for yourself, do you have a room she likes that you can keep her in.........maybe one with vinyl floors? Or, you could purchase a kitty condo and have her stay in it for most of the time. They're large enough for the cat to move around and also hold food, water and litterbox.

There's also the little diapers made for pets......don't know if she'd tolerate them, but it may be worth a try. Be sure to keep her bottom clean since she could suffer urine burns.
joepyeweed
16 years ago
she's still capable of sitting in the sun and enjoying the light. She'll still purr when i pet her and buck my head with her own.

Those are good signs.

Did the vet give you any indication of how much pain she may be in? If so, did he offer any meds for pain relief?

It hard to know when is the right time. And its hard to deal with the incontinence.

I would say, if you have doubts, then its probably not time yet.

I think when the time is right, you will have no doubts.
Related Discussions
How do you know when it's 'time'?
Q
Comments (12)
I'm sorry and I feel for you in your dilemma. Our last two dogs went into similar declines but it was easier because I am retired now and was home with them all the time. We had to help both the collie and sheltie up by lifting their back ends. When our collie finally could not stand even when helped to his feet, we knew it was time and my husband carried him to the car, and at the vets they used a stretcher to bring him inside and put him down. My sheltie went into some sort of respiratory distress at the end, and collapsed, and we knew that that was the end for her. I asked the vet about treating her but he gave her a very slim chance of recovery, so it seemed kinder to let her go, than to leave her alone at the vet hospital hooked up to machines when in the end she would not likely survive. It is a hard decision and much depends on the circumstances. My old collie in the past's legs kept giving out on him and he would cry in distress unable to rise. I was afraid this would happen while I was at work and so I brought him in to be euthanized while he was still ambulatory. I figure if my old timers are still enjoying part of their lives and are not in acute pain, they still want to live. I had to feed my last two dogs by hand because they could not eat comfortably from their dishes at a certain point. I also had a small water dish that I offered to my sheltie while she was lying down, so she did not have to get up to drink. Both received sub-Q fluids that seemed to help them, and also helped their appetites. The collie had a malignant fast growing tumor that began to interfere with his urinary system and at the end urine just ran out of him while he slept. I covered his beds with waterproof plastic tarps and covered that with washable soft blankets and quilts. I think both wanted to be with us and continue on until both went into final health crises. It is a hard decision, and there is no easy answer, but it sounds as if your dog still is enjoying your company even though his active days are behind him. In his dreams he may still be running and playing as he did before.
...See More
How do you know/decide when it's time to move on?
Q
Comments (17)
Here is an interesting article that I ran across today...really speaks to this topic: ========================================================== One writer struggles to believe that a new house does not equal a new and better life. by Jodi Helmer Everything would be different -- if only I lived in that bungalow; the charming one with the gabled roof, dormer windows and wide front porch. I would throw dinner parties, sit on a leather sofa in front of the fire, bake biscuits in the kitchen, sip sweet tea on the front porch, wear colorful rubber boots to work in the garden and let the dogs run free behind the white picket fence. It's my own house -- too tall, too thin, too little charm and a neighborhood that's not hip enough -- that makes this lust so palpable. Or so I've convinced myself. I stand under a towering oak tree across the street and stare; I walk past after dark to peer in the lit windows for a better view of the interior; I search real estate websites for virtual tours. All the while, I imagine the life I could have if I lived in one of the picture-perfect bungalows. Things would be different. Cozier. Better. "When you covet a house, it's not the house you're after, it's a different version of your life," said Meghan Daum, author of the book Life Would Be Perfect If I Lived in That House. "We trick ourselves into believing that it's our house that's holding us back; if we moved into a new house we'd be a better cook, our relationships would be better, we'd be thinner, we'd entertain more..." I feel better knowing that I'm not alone in thinking a new house equals a new life. From the moment I signed on the dotted line to buy this townhouse in 2007, I had plans to sell. Maybe that's why I'm always looking over my shoulder at other houses -- because I've always believed that the house I own now is just a place to live until something better comes along. In fact, each time I think I've eyed the perfect house -- the one I'd cash in retirement accounts and inheritances to own -- I develop a crush on another one. Even if I'm fortunate enough to own one of the bungalows in my favorite neighborhood, I'm certain that I'll continue to lust after other houses. I'll develop crushes on houses in more desirable neighborhoods with bigger front porches, prettier gardens and more historic appeal. If there is one thing I know about house envy it's that the condition is chronic; the attraction to real estate never stops. A few months ago, I hatched a plan to move into the perfect house. One evening, while I was walking the dogs, I noticed that one of the little bungalows I loved had a "For Rent" sign in the front yard. I took a flyer and spent the rest of the week trying to figure out how I could move into that house. Once again, I was picturing myself hosting dinner parties, drinking sweet tea on the front porch and wearing rubber boots in the garden. A friend suggested that I rent out my townhouse and move into the little bungalow. It was the perfect solution -- and then I thought about what moving would really mean. The truth is, I would rather meet friends at a restaurant than entertain; I hate leather furniture almost as much as I hate baking and biscuits; I prefer Diet Coke to sweet tea; and the last time I had a garden, the plants were either overgrown or dead. While I am waxing poetic about wide front porches and picket fences, I am ignoring all of the things I love about the house I own: It's just the right size; there are French doors in the kitchen that lead to a private patio, an oversized bathtub in the master bedroom and loads of storage space. There are even dormer windows. Blinded by bungalow lust, I've forgotten one of the most important things about the place I live: It's more than just a house; it's a home. It's the place where I mourned the end of a marriage and celebrated the thrill of falling in love again. It's the place where I negotiated my first book contract and spent countless hours hunched over a computer in the office to meet the deadline. It's the place where I made Christmas dinner solo for the first time, cutting potatoes and carrots with a dull paring knife and checking the roast 20 times to see if it was cooked. It's the place where I fostered six dogs, doling out rawhides and cleaning up accidents until each one found its forever home. It's the place I retreat to; the place I feel safe. The house is not perfect. There are no hardwood floors, no built-ins and no picket fence -- but there are memories and each one is far more important than a big front porch and wide wood moldings will ever be. I know I'll never be cured of house envy. I'll continue to fall in love with a new house on each block but the next time I'm standing under a towering oak tree and peering in the windows of a picture perfect bungalow, imagining what life would be like if I lived there, I'm going to remember that it might be a beautiful house but it's not home.
...See More
Elderly dog: How do you know when it's time?
Q
Comments (68)
I am so sorry to hear about Gracie. Sue, my rottie (also named Grace) had an adrenal tumor but it presented as cushings-- it am sure you have read about it but cushings causes a crazy food drive which combined with the anxiety can make for aggression. Luckily my rottie never had aggression-- at 115lb, if she was aggressive, I would have had to stop all treatment. Her food drive was something else though. I remember one day my father brought me a frozen container of homemade vegetable soup. I set it on the counter and walked outside with him as he left. In the short amount of time to walk him to his car-- maybe 10 min MAX? Grace had gotten the frozen quart container off the counter, broke through the plastic and ate all the *frozen* soup! Another time, I walked into the kitchen to find her on her hind two legs with her snout in a pot of simmering roasted veggie and lentil soup-- hot! This girl loved soup! LOL Because the tumor (like cushings) was producing large amounts of corticosteroids-- the hormone responsible for the fight or flight reaction. Like I said, Grace wasn't aggressive but she had a high level of anxiety. She couldn't just relax. She paced constantly.. and when she could relax enough to lay down, any sound had her back up. She wasn't sleeping. I wasn't sleeping. It was exhausting for her.. and for all of us. Because surgery wasn't an option for the second tumor, we put her on an anti-anxiety pill. It was a huge help and might be something to discuss with your vet. Grace actually lived MUCH longer than the vets expected and I believe the anti anxiety pill made that possible. It did nothing to cure the tumor-- but it helped keep the symptoms under control.
...See More
General novice AV questions
Q
Comments (3)
Yes, do take the time to read all the info in the FAQ link up top - good stuff there. But to answer your questions briefly this is what I do and what works for me (YMMV): 1. No they don't and I wouldn't recommend using clay pots, glazed or unglazed, cold or not. Tried that years ago, switched over to plastic pots and the violets were so much happier. Plastic is what most growers use. You can always put a plastic pot inside another fancy pot if that's the look you want. 2. I wait until the babies' leaves are at least quarter sized before I separate and they go into tiny pots - empty Keurig cups or solo cups. After that repotting depends on growth. Try to keep your pot size one third the diameter of the plant overall, and re-pot regularly - at least once a year (some do every 6 months.) 3. I like to let a baby plant bloom as soon as it wants to so that I can check that it came true to variety thereby not wasting any time on off plants, growing them on for months only to find they're not what I expected (this is esp. true for varieties with fantasy.) I generally don't disbud at all - but I'm not a show grower, nor am I interested in growing as large a plant as I can. Smaller is actually better for my space. But yes, disbudding puts more energy into the plant/roots - if you can stand to do it. ;-) 4. East windows are best, but south can work - usually you'll need a sheer curtain there between that southern exposure and the violets at different times of the year. I wouldn't worry about "acclimating" them for such a move, but I would keep an eye on them for signs there is too much or too little light. Oh, and be sure to turn them frequently for even growth. 5. I grow most of my AV's under florescent lights which are on a total of 10 hours. That works well for me. Anywhere in the 10 to 12 hour range might be right for you depending on the strength of your lights, the distance from the plants, etc. Sometimes you just have to pay attention and adjust as necessary. 6. Rooting hormone is not necessary when starting AV leaves - I never use it and I have pretty good success. Rooting hormone is never necessary at all when just re-potting. And even if you re-start the crown of the plant by cutting it off, simply keeping it in damp soil inside a closed baggie or other clear container for a couple weeks will get it rooting just fine, no chemical assistance required. Finally, read as many posts on these pages as you have time for. You can go back in time a long ways and there is lots of information here, lots of gems to note. Read, read, read - that's my best advice. Ask a question if you can't find it anywhere here already answered, of course, but do your homework, too! ;-) Best of luck with your grandmother's plants, Anne
...See More
spiritual_gardner
16 years ago
I discovered two years ago, that this is a very individual experience.

I had a dog that was 14 when I lost her. She had three health issues, but just would not give up. We were so close. During the last 4-5 years of her life, I consulted numerous times with a true "country" vet, who also used to be a city vet.

The first words out of her mouth when ever I called her, were "is the situation life threatening" followed by "is the dog able to do "dog things". After we got past these two statements, we talked further about what to do.

Because Tara was a large dog, 14 was considered extremely old for a healthy dog, but for one with her health issues, I really do feel that I was blessed having her for the last 3 years. She wasn't in any pain, and aged gracefully, loving to walk until her last day.

You alone must decide if your cat is doing all of the things a cat does, needs to do, and wants to do. For me, living with dignity is priority. I could have put my dog through things to extend her life, but it would have been traumatic for her and me.

The ultimate decision is excruciating. I did and do take huge amounts of comfort in knowing that I made the right decision, unfortunately, the right decision is not always easy to make.

Good luck!

SG
sylviatexas1
16 years ago
I'm sorry.

I don't think you can balance good days against bad days *if the bad days are unbearable*.

If bad days, or hours, or minutes, are just excruciating for her, then it's time to let her go back to the earth & the universe.

If hobbling is due to arthritis, that's pain.
If it's neurological damage, it probably is not.

No, I wouldn't put an animal to sleep due to housekeeping concerns.

I once had a puppy whose favorite teething toy was sheetrock.

Had I pitched him outside or given him away, I'd have felt very guilty & very disappointed in myself.

(He grew into a very nice dog.)

I do think that you'll never forgive yourself if you don't at least try to contain/control/manage the litterbox agenda:

& you can manage urine smells, or at least cope with them, people do it all the time when they have a baby or a failing elder in their homes.

Oxygen-based cleaning products are very good, & you can re-arrange her environment so that everything in it is washable, just like you would do with a baby's nursery or an elderly person's room.

If someone else, mother, father, or husband, had ever bullied me into euthanizing a pet, I never would have forgiven that person;
my feelings & my *respect* for that person would have been diminished, tainted, for the rest of my life.

A bully is a bully is a bully, & bullying someone into euthanizing a beloved pet is unforgivable.

If you feel that way, too, you might tell your husband.

If you can't bear to see her fail, as we all eventually fail, the only alternative is to let her go, & there's a case to be made for that decision, too:

Animals don't understand the concept of staying here or ceasing to exist, & they don't understand aging & failing.

She has lived far longer than most cats, & she's had a good life because of the love & care you've given her.

In order to continue your obligation to her in that respect, you're the one who has to decide if & when her quality of life is no longer good enough to keep her here.

If her quality of life is less than you can accept for her, or if you can't maintain her quality of life at an acceptable level, then it's time to let her go.

sending good thoughts for strength, clear thinking, & peace to both of you.

I wish you the best.
jmzms
16 years ago
I agree with the others. It is a VERY personal experience and will vary for each of us. My decision was easy. My girl Zoe (14 year old Samoyed) showed no signs of pain or suffering until two days before we put her down. Which might seem like an odd statement, but when we took her to the vet, there really was no question. She very well may have passed on her own before the morning. Sparing the details, she had an advanced cancer that was rapidly moving throughout her body. Done. No choice.

Does she have to be in "constant pain" .. no. But I think severe pain and discomfort is a different story. And it's always so hard to tell as they hide it so well. It comes down to her quality of life and your peace of mind, and finding that balance.

Joepyeweed states "I think when the time is right, you will have no doubts." I totally agree. However, you have to distinguish between what is DOUBT, and what is FEAR or SADNESS. No doubt you will be upset if and when you make that decision. It doesn't mean that it's doubt.

You should always find peace in knowing that you gave her a happy and loving home for a long and love-filled life. We're all here for you.

PS...As for the urine, I've learned through the years that Nature's Miracle is my best friend.
oceanna
16 years ago
I'm no kitty authority so I'll leave you in the good hands of others here, but I wanted to express my sympathy for your position. I've been through that a lot with my dogs, as I usually have 4-5 dogs at a time and have for years.

I absolutely hate being in the position you're in, where every day you're wondering, dreading, is this the day? I just went through that again a few weeks ago and I have another old dog here who tried to give up when her sister died... but I wouldn't let her. Anyway, yours is a very, very tough decision to make. It would be so much easier if we could just ask them!

I think what it's come down to for me is three things. One, if the animal is in pain it's time. Two, if the animal seems to have given up on life and lost his/her personality it's time. They will stop eating and drinking, and just stop participating, pretty much being a limp dishrag. There isn't any doubt when they do that, they're ready to go. Three is the hardest... once in a while it's just too much for us to cope with any more, as in too much pee/poo in the house, unable to carry a big dog up and down stairs, or whatever -- we just can't do it any more. We DO have a right to opt out at that point IF the animal is old and has no future but a downhill slide. We need to forgive ourselves for that and let them go with some dignity.

I hope this helps a little. I'm thinking of you and sending you strength to get through this tough part.
Anne_Marie_Alb
16 years ago
Personal decision, oh yes.. TOUGH.. OH YES! I was in that situation 5 months ago for the first time with my 12 year old cat and could not make the decision in time. He passed away just a few hours before the scheduled euthanasia, and it was NOT peaceful, after spending the whole night in my lap.

We are now dealing with a cat with advanced CRF condition and A BAD leg .. this is why I am curious about your cat.
Our cat started limping almost a year ago!! (left hind leg), quickly went to a plantigrade walk, and never recovered from that. He has NO feeling in that leg, and no muscles left either. It was heartbreaking to see him 'hobble along' as you say, and still is, but he manages to get around.. jump in his basket.. etc. He still can jump to about 1 foot (a little more, maybe). We have set up many special places in the house just for him. I also think it started with some calcification in his spine (next to tail) that pinched a nerve, hence the loss of his leg. I also suspect vaccinations as he limped badly from that leg a year before it all started (after a rabies shot). Anyway, more recent X-rays showed a growth in his pelvic area-osteosarcoma (vet diagnosis)

And there have been days when there would be nothing at all in the litter box, and i realized how odd it is for me to be delighted to have pee or poop to scoop. I've been taking her little "accidents" ... boy, I can so relate to that!!
Two things I might suggest.
1. Don't know what cat sand you use, but I replaced the clay dusty one (Cat's Pride) by a paper one: first just shredded newspaper, then yesterday's news and he seems to prefer that. It is much more absorbent and probably softer to him. He has had VERY, very few accidents since. I have also placed them closer to where he likes to spend time, so he does not have to go too far when he has an urge. Due to his kidney condition, he does urinate a lot and often. If your cat has FLUTI, he might prefer a softer litter box..
2. Laxatone does not do much for constipation. Lactulose might be more effective. Sub-Q fluids would also help a lot.

I hope your cat drinks a lot, especially if he is on prednisolone (hope it is not prednisone), otherwise he would be really dehydrated. Has your vet tested his urine?.. very easy and inexpensive test.

Please, please.. keep us posted. My heart goes to you and to your very special feline friend.

Anne-Marie
Anne_Marie_Alb
16 years ago
Just another thought... Stay away from METACAM oral, a pain reliever..I am no vet, but I strongly believe this is not a safe drug for cats (from many readings, and my personal experience)..
Anne-Marie
estreya
Original Author
16 years ago
Thank you all so much for your compassion and support. It really does mean the world to me. And how you all unraveled my frantic note and responded with such calm is really a wonderment ...

An update: Physically, Holiday had what i would call a "better day" yesterday, in that she ate her high-fat vet food with gusto and actually peed once in the litter box. Although she continued to struggle physically in ways previously mentioned, behaviorally, she was still quite alert and responsive to nuzzles and pets.

However, something in my gut is telling me the time is near. As of late last night, she is now "in hiding." She's under the bed where she goes when strangers come to visit. Her "safe spot." Although she's had her "spaced out" moments, this is the first really strong BEHAVIORAL symptom i've seen from her. Mind you, i've shed some tears about her situation, but i've done it away from her, so as not to upset her. Our interactions have remained positive and consistent. So this withdrawal is really striking to me, and i have to wonder if she's doing it because for perhaps the first time, SHE'S really feeling her decline?

Does this mean she's in pain?
Anne_Marie_Alb
16 years ago
However, something in my gut is telling me the time is near. As of late last night, she is now "in hiding." She's under the bed where she goes when strangers come to visit. Her "safe spot." ..Does this mean she's in pain?

My sick cat I mentioned above used to do this last summer when, on a regular basis, he would throw up, refuse all food & water for an entire day--and yes, I believe he was in pain then and mostly did not want to deal with our other 2 cats-- but he doesn't do it anymore. However, he does have his 'SAFE spot' (an igloo type of bed, with a small hole. Once he is in there, it is hard to get him out, and he knows it...). That's where he goes when he is tired of being given meds... It is his 'safe place'. I do not think it is because he is in pain. It is nothing like last summer. But of course, you know your cat and should be able to read into this withdrawal.

Please keep us posted, and, my best thoughts to the both of you,
Anne-Marie
GammyT
16 years ago
estreya, only you know her and only you will know when it time to let her go. She lived a long 17 year life and God Bless her for it, and bless you for being her Mommy.
susanjn
16 years ago
estreya, others have posted quite eloquently. I have been through the same thing twice before, and am going through it now. What has helped me is to start saying goodbye when I first see the signs that the end is near. With one of my cats that was about six months, with another about a year. I think that allowed me to clear the cobwebs of inconvenience (meds, extra cleaning, etc.) from my head and really focus on the cat's quality of life. And when the time came, it wasn't an emergency, it just suddenly became top priority. I felt sadness, but peaceful closure both times.

Holiday sounds like he is still giving and receiving love. Spend as much focused quality time with him as you can. He will probably tell you when it is time.
Lily316
16 years ago
I am going thru the same thing with my 19 year old cat. But he is still using the litter box and eating and drinking. He walks slowly and unsteadily but still can jump to the kitchen island. I give him extra food and he always eats. He is much thinner than he used to be, altho he was never a big cat..never was above 8 or 9 pounds and he's probably 7 or a little less now. He had a seizure a week ago and recovered from that. He had had one a year ago and we took him to the vet. He said he'd maybe have more. Louie also has senior moments when he looks like he doesn't know where to go. I think you'll know when it's time. I know you hope he dies peacefully in his sleep in his home. It's what we all want when our pets are very old and not well. Some times it happens but mostly it doesn't. You'll make the right decision.

How do you know when it's time?

Comments (13)

annzgw

joepyeweed

Related Discussions

spiritual_gardner

sylviatexas1

jmzms

oceanna

Anne_Marie_Alb

Anne_Marie_Alb

estreya
Original Author

Anne_Marie_Alb

GammyT

susanjn

Lily316

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

How do you know when it's time?

Comments (13)

Related Discussions

estreyaOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

estreya
Original Author