Thanks lazygardens ! Mostly for telling me to RELAX !

Ok. Any brand in particular that you can recommend for the de-glosser?

Should I also worry about the seams expanding when the boards contract in the cold months ?

THANK YOU !

I would prime everything with BIN and you would only have to sand lightly with fine or medium grit sanding blocks....just enough to dull the sheen down.

I agree with paint guy

Beware. Those knots may bleed thru in time no matter what you do. Double prime them if you have the time and energy.

I asked the same Q a year ago. I think I followed paint guys recommendations.
I lightly sanded with a foam sanding block, then cleaned with vinegar water. Then primed with bins stain block.I think I hit the knots the second time with bins.
Then two coats of paint.
A year later no bleed through and it looks real nice.
BTW, Do not use a high end brush with Bins, Just toss, it is almost impossible to clean.

HELP!!! , I to have a 1960 home and the kitchen and dinning room has tongue and groove all over. Need to know what I have to do to paint over the polyurethane on some of the walls. Was going to drywall but need help to figure out if painting is a option.

Read this discussion. It has all the info you need.

Does anyone have any advice on REpainting and getting between the grooves ? I am updating my paint and my pine panels definitely expand and contract thoughout the year . Right now they have contracted because of winter and you can see painted and unpainted spaces in the grooves. Quite unattractive. Thanks !

Nan112015 - No, it's not really possible to paint and have it 'bridge' the expansion/contraction of the grooves. An Elastomeric paint might do it, but that's an industrial coating, only comes in 5's, doesn't tint very well and is quite expensive. And difficult to use as well.

You DO NOT HAVE TO SAND!!

Scrub the walls down - a nice mix of dish soap and vinegar will cut any grease. Wipe down to get rid of the soap.

Prime the walls with ZInnser 1-2-3 or Zinnser BIN primer

It sticks to ANYTHING - including vinyl and will adhere to varnished or polyed or whatever surfaces.

Paint in the color of your choice.

One way to hide the cracks in tongue and grove walls before painting is to caulk between the boards with a paintable caulk. It sounds tedious but it goes fast once you get the hang of it. You can use cheap latex 'painters caulk' for under 2 bucks a tube or spend a bit more for better quality elastomeric caulk. Cut a very small 45 degree hole in the caulk tube and after applying run your wet finger through the crack to even it out. Many paper towels required to clean up the mess.

Zinnser 1-2-3 is not going to work on oil/shellac based polyurethane/varnished clear coats unless the surface is sanded to remove the coating. I just tested this tonight before and after sanding with a 60 grit orbital sander. The 123 primer applied before sanding will scratch right off with your fingernails. Of course 60 grit really roughs up the wood so may be a bit overkill and would need to be followed with a lighter grit. You may get away with 120-180 grit from the start. It doesn't take much effort (with an orbital sander and good dust collection) to remove that shiny coating. I can't imagine doing it with hand sanding.

Just read your comments about painting over pine, I'm wondering if one can do a whitewash treatment without sanding pine that has 25 year old polyurethane ....have a very large room that has yellowed pine, want to lighten it up. Thanks so much for any suggestions and help.

I've sprayed many paneled family rooms over the years for customers who wanted to lighten up the dark 60's and 70's walls. but did not want to go into a major remodel to affect dramatic change. My primer of choice was BIN white pigmented shellac. NOTHING beats BIN for adhesion, sealing, and fast drying. It is a little pricey, but it does get pretty good "mileage".

BIB's paint film is so thin, that the texture of the wood is not completely obliterated, as happens with multiple coats of heavy bodied latex primers and paints. On very dark paneling, I would go around twice with the BIN, completely blanking out the dark wood. The BIN dries so fast that the 2nd coat could begin by the time I had gotten done with the first. Further, by the time I had cleaned out my HVLP unit, Icould commence with the finish coat.

My finish of choice was oil based Benjamin Moore Satin Impervo. Since the dark paneling was already completely blanked out, and it was incredibly well sealed, one quick, relatively thin coat of the Impervo left a beautiful, factory like finish.

If the old finish was never poluted with waxy polishes etc. , or heavy household dirt, extensive cleaning with TSP or other cleaners is not necessary. Do pay attention to where oil films from human hands may prevent adhesion. As I stated, nothing beats the incredible adhesion of shellac, which will stick to even glass and ceramic surfaces! Shellac is also one of the most environmentally friendly products, being grain alcohol and the product of an asian bug!

Of course, one of the newer water based alkyd or hybrid finishes could also be used over the shellac.

David Jensen, Thank you so much! I really appreciate your feedback. I'm not sure when I'll gather up the energy to tackle my room, but I'll start looking for product you suggested.

Thanks David Jensen. My big fear is the contracting and expansion. Would darker color paint help with that problem.

Just a followup - I did use paintable caulk over a year ago (Big stretch) between grooves. First year, no expansion. Now over a full year , the caulk has broken as the planks expanded / contracted. Did not work

pl7009 - Obviously, the gaps between the boards would be less noticeable with stronger colors. Personally, I don't find the gaps objectionable if they are fully painted. There is a little chance that if the boards shrink after the painting, a little raw wood can show. The boards do move with the seasons, swelling during high the humidity of summer and shrinking during the dry season ( the heating season in Northern climates). Painting during the dry winter season would lessen the chances of raw edges beginning to show. In bone dry Northern winter climes, use of humidifiers help stabilize wood expansion

Thanks so much for the feedback. It helps in my decision to paint or not.

I have decided to paint over the knotty pine walls in my breezeway. Which is very small and all the walls are pine! Yuck:) my question is would it be easier to remove the paneling and trim and sand blast it outside then use a paint sprayer to paint? Or am I being a little over the top and adding unnecessary work?

If you are going to remove it, might as well buy new.

It would not be " a little over the top", it would be WAY over the top!

Areas, such as garage interiors, I always treat as interior. they do not see rain or sun and are not exposed to extreme, rapid temperature changes.

Treat those knots with shellac before beginning your painting to stop bleed through.

I have a similar situation to the OG poster and others. However my wood paneling is in the basement. I personally like the wood look and feemof everything but it is the standard dates orange hue. I will be putting down new raised flooring to get rid of the old carpet but I want to update the walls first.

But because I like the wood look I want to preserve that by white washing the wallls to brighten up the space and keep the texture of the wood.

All the posting above is about primer and paint. Any suggestions on the best way to prep and white wash? Thanks

I suggest you white wash the walls with latex flat ceiling paint. Brush with grain and the whip gently with cloth with grain.

Oh, please don't paint the knotty pine! Remove it and paint the walls. Knotty pine has a following and someone who is restoring a mid century home would be thrilled to have it.

If you have access to conventional or HVLP spray equipment, consider spraying on clear shellac mixed with BIN white pigmented shellac sealer in the ratio of about 1 part BIN to 4 parts shellac. This should give the transparency desired. If too thin, another light coat could be given. NOTHING beats shellac for adhesion and sealing.

Do have good ventilation and wear a respirator. Shellac, which is alcohol based, is potentially explosive. The shellac is its own finish coat. It does not need a clear coat over it.

If using TSP as a cleaner, make sure to rinse everything well with clean water. I actually don't like TSP for general cleaning. I prefer "Dirtex" powder cleaner. Dirtex does not have the same warnings about rinsing. TSP converts grease or oil to a type of soap, and it is not good to paint over soap either!

TSP has been banned not because it is dangerous per se, but because it gets into the water shed and promotes algae growth. Phosphorus, the "P" in TSP, is a plant nutrient and was clogging the Great Lakes with algae. Phosphorus has been either banned or lessened in many cleaning products, including laundry and dish washing detergents.

If you sand, you do not need to degloss. Deglossers are what people use when they do not want to sand. You just want the surface to be dull and clean so that when you paint, there is nothing there that will impede adhesion. I personally do not feel that deglossers are as effective as sanding. TSP is like an old wives tale. It's ok to use outside when you can flood rinse the area with a hose, but for inside paint prep, it's just overkill.

Dave Jensen, if using BIN sealer and primer by hand (not in a spray machine) do you recommend to dilute it first. If so, by what ratio? This is for all over coverage of a pine clad tongue and groove wall. Thanks in advance

morrisdog,

BIN is actually thinner than most paints and rolls out well, however, unlike most paints, being alcohol based, it sets VERY fast. I would use a quality 1/4 inch roller and "back brush" it with a good natural bristle brush. Do one or two vertical boards at a time, trying to keep a "wet edge" on the BIN.

If your job spills over a couple days, merely wrap your brush and roller up tight and put it them in a cool place. They will not harden over night. One thing interesting about shellac, is that it will re-dissolve and soften when placed in new shellac. This is not true of oil or latex paints. I used to carry a wrapped up BIN brush in my truck at all times. If it should start to get hard, I would simply dunk it in fresh shellac and wrap it up again.

You might consider replacing that thin piece of wood with a new piece or crown molding stained to resemble the old paneling. Try finding a matching stain. Often, pine paneling was simply shellacked. Orange (amber) shellac might in itself approximate the look of the yellow/amber aged pine.

We are closing on a house where half of the rooms are covered - walls & ceiling - in stained knotty pine. I'm not sure if there's a sealer over the stain, but I do know the seller periodically "lemon-oils" the walls. Would I still be able to skip the prepping step of either sanding or deglossing, and just apply 2 coats of BIN and a couple coats of paint? Trying to figure out if it's a DIY project or if I should hire painters.

Painting over knotty pine. Which has been up and "lightly" shellacked since 1979. Do I need to BIN or just sand and paint with Lucite Interior Satin Laytex. Thanks.

If for no other reason, white pigmented BIN wold blank out the old color of the wood while sealing in any tannins.

I have cypress tongue and groove walls in my den that were sealed with polyurethane 30 years ago which of course is an amber color now And everywhere that had something hanging of course didn’t yellow. I want to whitewash the walls and was wondering if I’ll still have similar issues. I’ve started the process of sanding them using a 60 grit on my orbital sander. Do I have to get down to bare wood to whitewash ? I fear I’ve bitten off more than I can handle! Those grooves are kicking my butt! Using a sanding sponge to get in every groove. Also what is the best product to use to whitewash? Was just planning on using a diluted water base pure white paint. Need your advice. Thanks.

DIYpatricia

@DavidJensen Hi! Thanks so much for all of your tips. A friend of mine who has a sprayer has offered to paint the pine for me, after following all of your tips of course :) However he has never used BINS before and was wondering what he uses to clean it out of his sprayer, before going to the next step of painting? Your help would be very much appreciated. Thanks Jenna

Use denatured alcohol to clean your sprayer if you are using BIN.

Yup, as paintguy says, clean the gun with de-natured alcohol. BIN is fairly viscous and sprays well with convention air powered siphon cups or HVLP equipment. i used to spray it frequently using my UVLP gun.

Thanks @paint guy and @DavidJensen Do I clean the paint gun before with denatured alcohol as well? I have read about Shellac point loosening old paint and gumming up the unit? Since a friend is doing this as a favour I really dont want to mess up his sprayer. Thanks again. Also do you recommend a certain type of paint to use over top of the BINS shellac?

Hopefully the gun was put away clean the last time it was used. Denatured alcohol will dissolve old acrylic/latex paint. If there were old paint residue still in the gun, it cold potentially lift it, but I doubt that would be a problem. If there were enough latex still in a gun, the gun wouldn't spray any how.

During my contracting days, I actually kept two guns, one for BIN/shellac, and one for my oil spraying. Each have dedicated solvents which aren't effective against the other, i.e. mineral spirit doesn't touch shellac, and alcohol does not touch oil paint.

Hello, we have a small sunroom ( western side of the house) has knotty pine wood on the walls, ceiling and up into the cut out Skylight areas. The area up in the sky light reflected drip like black water marks on it so we decided to paint the ceiling (had the skylights replaced three months ago and we know the Knotty Pine is in fine shape otherwise). We decided to paint the ceiling, including up in the recessed sky light areas. started with the Bin primer, put two coats, then started to see an Amber-colored film coming through. Unfortunately the painter then added two coats of a latex paint. The amber color is still coming through.
I'm wondering if it's old sap that which from the heat of the sun coming through the skylights. Suggestions on how I tackle this project at this point considering we have two layers of den and two layers of latex paint and the amber color is coming through just like we simply did a white wash.

I’m still unclear on two items David Jensen: should the knotty pine be sanded before applying the BINs? And, what type of paint should be applied over the BINs? Latex? Thank you!

zohogirl,

BIN has incredible adhesion , even without a scuff sanding. However, scuff sanding is never a bad idea.

In my contracting days, now 15 years ago, I primarily sprayed Benjamin Moore's oil based "Satin Impervo." Were I to paint it today, I would use one of the water based enamels: Benjamin Moore's "Advance" is great product. Behr's WB Alkyd/Urethane paint is also very good. If using the Behr, be careful about the re-coat time. It is a minimum of several hours in good drying conditions of above 70 degrees and normal humidity. Although water based, it dries chemically like a true oil paint.

Can I whitewash solid oak paneling without sanding first?

I have knotty pine in the dining room and hall ways and now want to brighten the spaces. In the past, I'd go to Home Depot and buy rolls of textured wallpaper that was paintable and it worked every time. No bleeding through from the knots. Contemplating this method again, but wallpaper has gotten so expensive. Will have to weigh labor and cost, however wallpapering and then painting would probably be the lesser evil. We have to repaint our wood work every year in the bathroom despite primers. Knots constantly bleed through!