Peeing in the crate

11 years ago

We lost our home to Hurricane Sandy. We have a 2yr old male boxer and two young sons. We spent the first 8 weeks with my sister squeezed into her two bedroom apartment until we could find a rental that would allow a 70lb dog.
We moved in on December 22nd. The house is more than sufficient for all of us and Harley has a lot more room to play in the house. Only problem is that the yard isnt fenced in - so we have to be very careful about him not getting out of the house. He's crated while my husband and I are at work but he get's an hour walk / playdate with a neighborhood dog every afternoon. He was fully housebroken fairly early - in fact he was a pleasure to train as he's very smart. Since we've moved, if we have to put him in the crate while we're home - even for a few minutes (i.e. bringing in the groceries or having furniture delivered) he'll look right at us and pee in the crate. How do we break him of this habit? He never soils the crate during the week and he can hold it for 10 hours at night. He's obviously letting us know he doesnt want to be in there at that moment. We have all been through so much in the last 2.5 months - even Harley since he doesnt have his fenced in yard to play in everyday. Any advice on how to deal with this at the time its happening? We've been putting him on a leash until we clean the crate and then putting him back in right away. Thanks..

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Comments (10)

Ninapearl
11 years ago
i'm so sorry for the loss of your home. i can't even imagine the terror.

boxers are high energy dogs and at 2, your boy still has very much a "puppy" mentality. if he is crated all day while you are both at work, then crated all night, even with an hour afternoon walk/play time, that just isn't nearly enough.

how is he when you actually put him in the crate? does he go willingly? does he have to be forced, even a little? it could be a fear thing if he senses you are impatient with him (don't mean to say you ARE, but even if you don't THINK you are, it could be he's sensing it).
eahamel
11 years ago
I think he's really stressed by all that's been going on. I suggest you find a dog behaviorist to help him through this. His whole life has been turned upside down, just like yours has, but he doesn't have the understanding that you have.

An hour of play time isn't nearly enough for a high-energy dog like a boxer. He needs for YOU to take him out every day, too,for a long walk. He needs that anyway, to help get his excess energy off and for him to have some bonding time with you. And a trip to a ball park a couple of times/week would be really beneficial for him, too.

And, you could get an outdoor fenced kennel or a dog run for him to have in the back yard, and he could spend a few hours each day in it instead of in a little crate. Look at the second one on the link, that's what I'm talking about.

Good luck to you, I hope this rental will be short-term until you can get back into your home, or buy another one!

Here is a link that might be useful: outdoor dog kennel
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Thank you for the kind words Tina and for your thoughts Caroleoh and Flyingpwr. The possibility that those puppies are being crated when they are home never crossed my mind and at this point, I really don't want to speculate on what takes place when the family is home. The problem I have is based solely on what I saw at the time of the visit; knowing full well what the circumstances were which was a minimum of 8-9 hours of confinement without room to move, food or water. I would assume that 8-9 hours to an animal is like a life time. It seems reasonable since it is for me when I'm somewhere I don't want to be. Also just because your dog can sleep through the night, doesn't mean they all can or that water shouldn't be available to them if they need it. Besides, how do we know that those animals actually drank water before being caged? Or even relieved themselves for that matter. For all we know, maybe they weren't thirsty or have the need to pee before being crated. That would mean they actually ended up without water or being able to pee for much longer than 8-9 hours. We also don't know if the HO came home directly after an 8 hour day. What if they had to work late or had plans after work? And what if they are puppies and not adults. Puppies have more energy and need to be fed a lot more often than an a adult, not to mention their exercise requirements. It's just not black and white, there are so many scenarios to consider when you think about it. That said, I don't want to assume as well that this is a situation of purposeful abuse either, because I really don't believe that to be the case. Based other things I saw in the house, I honestly believe these people love their dogs. They just aren't knowledgeable about the correct way to train or properly care for them. I would urge anyone who feels leaving a pet crated and/or without water for that long is acceptable to please reconsider that thought. To the untrained eye, it's not always obvious when a dog or cat is suffering from dehydration and it seems it could affect their long term health. Forcing an animal to "hold it" on a regular basis when they need to urinate, is not only cruel, but I believe it could also have it's own set of repercussions as well. Maybe as a Vet, Meghane can confirm my thoughts and even clarify if I'm wrong. My take is, sure people and adult pets can easily sleep 8 or 9 hours without relieving themselves, but many times we wake up when our bladder is too full because it feels too uncomfortable. There's no way around it, when you've got the urge to go, you've got to go. When a person restrains from relieving themselves for a long time not only does it become increasingly uncomfortable, they also risk infection. I would think that animals could also become susceptible to infections in much the same way. Even if that's not the case, you can't assume to know what an animal is feeling physically. To assume you do is nothing more than just a way to justify this way of mishandling them. Urinating is a natural reflex and not being able to act on it must be uncomfortable for them, especially if they are house trained. Then they also know if they do mess in the house, their owner won't be a happy camper. Jakabedy stated, "I know that folks who show dogs depend on crating, and the dogs are in the crates for long periods of time. They can even leave them stacked and crated at some show grounds overnight (heated and cooled, of course) depending on the venue." Well, just because they do it, doesn't make it right and IMHO, they do not have the dogs best interest at heart. I don't know what the right answer is to this problem but after reading the feedback, I don't feel like I'm over reacting at all. It's been several days and I still have those puppies on my mind. It was just a terrible thing to see. The issues with crating remind me of when I was training my last 2 dogs. At the time, a Vet I was dating was very concerned because choke chains were gaining in popularity and many people did not know how to use them properly as well. I was fortunate enough to have someone like him to teach me acceptable methods for training my dogs. He also taught me a lot about other health and care issues for my animals which why I saw red flags in this situation to begin with. I wish classes on proper overall care and use for some of the training tools available today were mandatory for people who choose to own a pet. I think a lot of people would sure benefit from it.
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gpwuster-Let me ask you a question and I don't mean this in a hateful way.Can YOU "hold it" for 9 hours? To answer your question,yes,you are expecting too much of him to hold the poop and pee that long! First of all,Monty is still a puppy.I think it is unfair to the dog to keep him crated for 9 hours without a break. That's just my opinion.Could you possibly have someone come in during the day and let him out or maybe you or DH could come home for lunch and let him out? Also,small dogs should not be going 9 hours without food because of blood sugar issues.They need to eat several small meals during the day. Another solution would be closing off an area with a puppy gate (not a closed door).Maybe a laundry room,bathroom or some other small uncarpeted area in the house for him during the day.Place the opened crate,(prop the door open with something heavy) food,water,a few favorite toys and a puppy pad in the enclosed area.I know there is a lot of negative advice about the puppy pads,but when the choice is for the puppy to be locked in a crate for 9 hours a day as opposed to being in a secured area with a puppy pad,in my opinion the puppy pad is better.If he can hold it all night and has never peed/pooped in the crate at night I don't think he will start.I know that all dogs are not the same but I have a 13 year old female Chi that potties on puppy pads when we are not home but when we are she runs to the door and bounces around when she needs to go out.She doesn't pee anywhere else in the house.She doesn't use the puppy pad when someone is here to let her out so that kinda debunks the theory that they will think it is ok to pee in the house if they are pad trained!LOL I am at this moment training a tiny 7 week old Chi-weenie (less than 1 1/2 lbs) to go on the puppy pad.I have had her 3 days and she is already going to the pad by herself to pee.We are still working on the poop thing but she is learning fast.We also take her outside and she does her jobs as well.I am disabled and can't take her outside.She only goes out when DH is here to take her,so pad training is the only other option.She is crated only at night and when we are going to be out for a few hours during the day.She has never peed or pooped in her crate.I'm not saying this is the greatest solution or that I won't be here tomorrow with the same problems others are experiencing.Just that this is what is working for me,so far!LOL
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ilovepoco
11 years ago
Can you shut him in another room instead of crating him when you need to confine him briefly? 10 hours a day is a long time for such a young, large, and active dog to be crated. He's got to find it boring and uncomfortable. How is he supposed to know that he's only going to be confined for a few minutes instead of hours and hours?

Also, he might benefit from a day or two of doggie day care each week.
lucky_ladybug
Original Author
11 years ago
Thanks everyone.. Nina, you're right. He is still very much a puppy. We were working on leaving him out of the crate during the day (small periods of time) when the storm happened. With all the change and confusion we thought it best to crate him again till he's used to the new environment.
He's not crated at night. As soon as my husband gets home he's out till the following morning. It seems like he knows the weekdays from the weekends. He doesnt complain about going into the crate on the weekday mornings. I take him for a quick walk before I get on the bus and knowing he's going to get a peanut butter treat he willingly sits there waiting.
This behavior is new. We'll crate him briefly on a Sat or Sun if we have the kitchen door open to bring in the groceries or if my 84 yr old Grandma comes to visit - I dont want him to knock her off balance because he's happy to see her.

I realize the answer to most issues is usually "he needs more exercise". We are doing the best we can under the current circumstances. We were thinking about meeting with a behaviorist as we're expecting a baby in the Spring and want to get him ready. I guess we should call now before this bad habit gets out of hand.

Thanks for the feedback.
annzgw
11 years ago
Question: is he neutered?

It sounds as though he's established a routine.....go in the crate, pee, then be taken out again while it's cleaned up. I take it he doesn't pee a second time?
I think it's time he's shown a new routine. My suggestion: Try this on a day when you have time to spend with him. Make sure he's been out for a pee before crating him, then give him a Kong filled with peanut butter, a new chew toy or something that he loves but hasn't had for awhile. Place the favorite treat in the crate, crate him, then leave the room without lingering or talking. If you hear him peeing as you leave the room, keep walking. Leave him for at least 5 minutes before returning to let him out. Hopefully there's no pee but if there is just clean it up with no emotion toward the dog. Then try the exercise again later in the day.
The treats are to help change his focus from peeing to something worth checking out.

They're a great breed and I know you're enjoying him. It's too bad he's lost his fenced yard but so nice he has a play date every day. My DS owned a Boxer and he was completely trustworthy in the house and with their young daughter. Sadly, the dog died at 5 yrs from some type of neurological condition, probably cancer.

Others may have better suggestions and you may want to try the Boxer forum.

Here is a link that might be useful: Boxerworld
mazer415
11 years ago
Go get yourself a harness and a cable run. So he can play outside.
cindyandmocha
11 years ago
If he is looking right at you when he pees in his crate then he is a "nervous pee-er". Obviously crating him when you are doing other things isn't working. What Annz said - you cannot find it acceptable to pee in the crate.

If you'vet let it go long enough that peeing in the crate is an issue then the crate isnt working. that's the point when the crate has to stop.
Nancy in Mich
11 years ago
The first thing I would do is to make sure that he goes out for a pee before you try to crate him at these "off times" that seem to upset him so much. I agree with Annz that giving him a high-value treat like a frozen Kong stuffed with cream cheese or peanut butter and leaving him with it in the crate a few times each weekend - even if you don't need him to be crated at the time - is good practice. Just be sure to let him back out before he starts acting out. Being in the crate should be a GREAT thing for him at these times. You should open the crate while he is still busy with the kong.

I am so sorry you and your neighbors are going through all of this. Should we inlanders organize temporary rescues to help people get through all of this while we keep their pets out of the way and give them back once things settle back down on the east coast? I imagine a free doggy daycare in each town would be a great help, but I don't know how we could organize that. Hmmm.
lucky_ladybug
Original Author
11 years ago
We've been working with him. We moved his crate out of the kitchen - where his sight line is limited. He seems much better if he can see what's going on. And we've been doing what nancy suggested - a treat to go in the crate for just a few minutes on Sat or Sun. I think he's getting it. We will do a cable run so he can be outside on the driveway once it gets a little warmer. Far too cold right now.

Nancy, I can only speak for me & my family... as difficult as it was to find a temporary home that would allow a large dog, I cannot imagine giving our pup to someone else - even for a short while. He's a member of our family. We stay together - no matter what. He's never been boarded. When we go on vacation (if he cant come with us) he goes to my parents.
Nancy in Mich
11 years ago
I am glad it is working out for you, Lucky Ladybug. I am glad that you have been able to find a place that will allow your dog, and I hope that landlords are being more helpful to families with pets as you look for temporary housing.

Peeing in the crate

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