Davidrol, I don't mean a GW'ers kitchen. But a "published kitchen" especially is fair game for us to critique (and praise).

Lirio, I didn't realize the problems with size. I have to teach myself how to make them smaller. As for fonts, I don't know if it is a Mac thing but no matter what font I select it posts the same old way.

I feel exactly the same way, orcasgramma.

I know it takes a ton of work from people other than me, but feel like I'm in design school when I'm reading them (and rereading them) -- I learn a ton.

I typically do not read them. As a couple of other posters mentioned, I just feel like the subject is way out of my league and I'm not really interested. It's not really my focus at this time and not the reason I come to the Kitchen forum. Perhaps the Home Design forum might be a better place for them?

I am a little surprised that people who don't read them are expressing an opinion at all...I mean if you don't read them, why are you reading this one?

I am not trying to be snarky, but there are threads that I just don't pay attention to myself, but I don't express an opinion either. They are free to exist or not as they may.

I suppose its all a part of information gathering, but if your point is that there is a large group of people who aren't that interested, I assumed that already...:)

I don't participate at all in the threads but love them. I like when people talk through the decision-making process so I can see what all I need to consider when putting together my own kitchen, or any other room in the house. Last week I spent a couple of hours going through all the DAT pics JUST for color schemes, since DH and I are at an impasse with our own kitchen style and I need completed, well thought out color storyboards to throw at him, instead of "um, how about green?"

I'd be on board with monthy DATs.

I don't usually post but I absolutely love reading the posts. I hope you continue with the design around this theme.

I enjoy them, especially if something that is usually demolished is presented as the "must design around" part.

Please keep the DATs going - at whatever schedule works for those who do all the work for those of us who soak it all in. Thank you to all who have participated in the deigns and in the critiques.

Palimpsest, re your 14:45, I think you're too close to the issue. I opened this thread because I wondered why you were asking about discontinuing. The DAT threads are too much like my day job to be much fun for me, and I'm certainly not going to be making design sheets for no pay. Even reading them can be tiring because I can't help but think through the problems even just reading the titles; reading through the threads takes an awful lot of creative energy that I can use elsewhere. That doesn't mean I'm totally disinterested. So I was interested in this thread here.

Since you were asking the question, I thought I should contribute an answer. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thought so. How are you going to know the lurkers from the don't readers if we don't tell you?

I lurk and really enjoy reading these.

plllog, GW gets around 130K visits per day. So I think everybody already knows those people aren't all reading the DAT threads! I think pal is just trying to see if anybody is reading them other than the participants, and clearly many are.

plllog, I understood what you meant when you said you don't read them because it isn't an escape/entertaining/educational for you.

I started this thread because the active participants are dwindling/getting tired/too busy, and there has been some discussion of extending the time period between. I assumed people are reading since my photobucket got locked in January because of too many hits.

What I wanted to know myself is if they had enough lurkers reading along to continue at all, because all things come to an end at some point. The participants don't want to do DATs for a group of six other participants.

So: "I lurk but I don't comment"
"I used to read but the threads have gotten too___"
" I read them but there are too many too quickly"
"I've read them but their time is over" are all pieces of valid data in the decision process to keep going, slow down or take a break"

"I never read them/ I never have read them" doesn't provide any information regarding the future of DAT.

If you don't read them it shouldn't matter if there is a new Design Around every day or never again.

Hi Palimpsest

I love them.

But, I don't participate by adding visuals to the thread.
Partly because of energy, partly insecurity.
I imagine, that I am not alone. Sort of like those folks
that listen more than talk. (lurkers) They contribute in ways that
don't always show. Clearly this is the case for many are
posting to keep DAT going.

And maybe there is someone out there in GW who wants to
start a DAT but might be a little shy, fearful, insecure
or fragile about their abilities, ideas and creativity too...

Please continue them.

~boxer

Well, now that it's very clear we don't HAVE to do a mood board...I'm going to post more kitchens. I do it for fun, more than the critique...and hope some of the pictures might give others a good idea, for their kitchen.

While I don't always do 'my dream kitchen' I know I tend to stay in my comfort zone. Others like to push their limits. Fun, either way, IMHO :)

I would like to thank Palimpsest for inviting comments from newbies and lurkers. I too have been hesitant to post comments because I am not a contributor.

I agree with;
- regular schedule (new topic once a month?)
- DAT (colour, style, or specific problem, etc)
- help my kitchen (but owner refrains from commenting)
- it works, or doesn't, & why (published kitchen)

Thank you to Pal and all the other DAT designers for sharing their incrdible work with us.

Lurker, here. I've really enjoyed some of the threads--1920's kitchen, colonial revival, and white kitchen--to name a few. I kind of lost interest with the pink threads, but if there are more threads, I will at least check them out.

After the first few threads, I started waiting until there were 10 or more posts, to make sure there was something to see. ;)

I consider GW a resource... And, same with DAT threads. I really like them/to read them, but generally don't feel comfortable participating in them.

The one I personally found most helpful was the "honey oak" one...and I later posted a post regarding my kitchen conundrum with oak (honey or not was debatable, but I think it is honey) and pulls--mostly because what I had in mind wasn't included by anyone on the DAT as a color selection.

I think to keep it as a resource would be great. Take things that we get asked often on here. For example, kitchen/dining remodel of typical 70s split level home. The 60s tract house kind of fell in that vein... Ideas to get someone started down an okay/right path before they put up their floorplan and it gets shredded, for example.

I enjoy the DAT threads and hope they continue. I learn quite a bit from many of them them and especially appreciate those who contribute design and architectural knowledge and theory as well as eye candy.

I've noticed that some are directing newbie posters to an appropriate DAT thread when relevant so I think they can serve a great function.

These days I only have time to lurk and occasionally post (on non-DAT threads!) for 10 minutes or so a day. If things slow down, I may well take a shot at one of the future DATs.

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse but do want to clarify motivations. My first message said I usually don't read them, not never. And I do enjoy reading at least the titles--as I said, I can't help but think about the problem. Just the title makes me think, without having to absorb a lot of new information, or distract me from the projects I'm working on.

The reason I said more than those first two sentences is that you wanted to know why people who don't read the DAT's responded to this thread. I thought that included me, so I replied.

Marcolo, that's true, but since I have posted in DAT's, and have been very active in the Kitchens forum, I think my answer had more currency than some guy who breezes by the Harvest forum to learn how to can his bumper crop of okra. I seem to have been mistaken, but I hardly think it matters much. There are outlier responses to any survey.

Oh, plllog, either you or I misread. You're as much of a permanent fixture here as a Kohler Vinnata. But there was another, entirely different comment from someone who never reads them and wouldn't be expected to. I thought pal was replying to that comment, not yours.

I read and enjoy them. Being design-challenged, the quick succession of the DATs as of late are too much to contemplate and absorb. I would miss them if the stopped.

Plllog you are a fixture on the forums and my comment wasn't directed your way. A few other pros have said similar to me privately, these threads are too much like their daily work to contribute. For me, since I am primarily in another field these give me the opportunity to get some things out of my system.

Anyway, I guess the general consensus is this: Keep going, at a slower pace. I think once a month might actually be too slow, I was thinking more like two weeks. (At the very beginning is was about 4 days, I think, lately a week)

So we will keep on going, albeit at a different pace, with different types of contribution, and perhaps, different types of discussion.

Thanks. :)

yay!

Even though I have not posted to a DAT thread, I really enjoy seeing the design elements and the different approaches taken to the same issue. I think its a great resource. Please keep 'em coming.

I love the DAT threads and would like them to continue with a new one monthly. I learned a lot from the few I participated in and saw myself gradually improving. Unlike other participants I did not expect critiques unless I asked as sometimes I knew something wasn't quite right. We are a mix of amateurs and some professionals, I as an amateur am not ready or qualified to give critiques but I do enjoy the creative process when I have time. I think we all get something different out of the threads, for me it's design self-improvement crossed with hoping to help others with ideas. If the design threads were only once a month I would be able to join in more often. It is very time consuming when you know nothing of a particular style and time is something I don't have a lot of lately.

Yes, keep them going at a slower pace And maybe a little break before the next one.

Plllog, it sure would be great for all if you were to pop into those threads occasionally. For us amateurs a little word here and there on right or wrong directions would be fantastic. I do understand that it's not entertainment for you though. Still, this little grasshopper would love to see you jump in once in a while. There is something about you that brings out courage.

One tangent that might be interesting to explore is focus on specific aspects like colors, or backslashes, islands etc. One of the most illuminating threads I have ever read is an old one on colors in the kitchen. The analysis on what makes the colors work in different contexts was fascinating. As a regular person planning a kitchen, one of the traps that is hard to avoid is mixing different elements from different styles.. A modern glass tile back splash may not work in all kitchen.. For novices like me, learning about how to analyze some aspect to see if it works or not is priceless... This is what helps us translate the numerous inspiration pics into a coherent vision for a specific space.

I don't know how to post pix otherwise I would play...and I love reading and looking at people's ideas.
Such creative minds here; I am humbled daily and can't thank the contributors that enjoy kitchens for sharing their joy, skill and knowledge!

lalitha, any idea how to find that thread on colors in the kitchen? I'd love to see it. I know when I like or hate something, but I'm not quite sure I know why. It would be good to understand what's behind it.

my two cents...I have enjoyed reading the DAT threads and participating in a few. I would love to have the time and energy to participate more. I have found the pace of them to be a bit too fast and furious for me to keep up with, though. By the time I'd absorbed enough knowledge to think about how I might want to do country french, we were on to rustic modern. So I'd like to see more time between new threads...a month...or even more (6 weeks or so?)

Hi linelle..

For me personally, "The kitchen" has always been elizpiz's kitchen in FKB. Not so much the storage .. Even though that is fabulous but just the sheer feeling it invokes.. And the colors she has worked with create that mood..

here is the color musings thread from 2009

I hope the DATs continue but also feel that less frequent and continued over longer periods would be a lot better. As it is, they just move way too fast. Intriguing as the challenges posted are, I don't have time to read most of them, much less try to participate. And a number of times I have wished I could, hmmming over the initial challenge.

Also, it should be very helpful to emphasize that posting a picture and discussing it is perfectly acceptable, developing a whole mood board just another option. I actually didn't know that.

Minimal emphasis on rules, including not even mentioning that word, would undoubtedly encourage participation. Probably just an explanation of how it works best would do nicely. After all, if an invitation to a party instructed you on a list of rules you have to obey if you come, would that make you want to?

Along the same line, these threads have been nice and enjoyable, but I suspect minimal awareness of a managing group in the background would encourage more people to just jump in and have fun. In any venue people who feel they are outsiders to a group usually pay it the courtesy of passing on by, and in this forum there are always lots other threads to join where all comers belong equally.

On the pink kitchen (part 2) thread, I suggested that maybe we should try a yellow kitchen. Many people on the forum seem very enthusiastic about yellow and it's perfect for a shot of spring color, in the midst of February!

Anyone else like the idea of a yellow kitchen?

Since mood boards are optional, it might be an easy one, for people who've been hesitant to post, in the past. Any style would be possible, as long as the kitchen had some yellow elements...so think of all the possibilities :)

I just want to make a comment on the mood-boards-optional thingie, to avoid confusion.

The main point of these threads is to post an entire cohesive design. That's what they started for and what they're primarily about. However, it isn't necessary to use olioboard or upload a Photoshopped vignette--many people simple post decent photos of their selected elements kinda grouped together. And that's perfectly fine. Although I think people who are actually planning a remodeling job might benefit from learning how to do a mood board for their own sake.

LL, I posted cawaps's old list of topics in the rustic thread. Take a peek.

I was probably the one who most encouraged a formatted finish board. (I kinda don't even like the term "mood board" but I will live with it:)

There is one major pitfall of posting pictures from which individual elements are extracted. The presenter may know exactly how to "subtract" the unwanted elements in a particular picture but it may not present a clear scheme to the viewer.

I have had clients show pictures of which they liked bits and pieces, but what they really wanted the kitchen to look like as a whole was much different than the inspirations.

A smaller pitfall is all the "staging" in inspiration pictures and I think the most dull kitchen can be made to look interesting with enough flowers, dishes, doodads and food.
(Of course I think a good kitchen is a bit dull when finished, to allow a backdrop for the doodads and food.)

Anyway those are my two suggestions: two weeks and at least a careful selection of pictures by those who don't want to do an actual finish board.

It is wonderful that these threads seem to be so appreciated by so many. Very encouraging.

I agree with Pal's recommendation of approximately every two weeks, 15 days or so, with the odd bump up as needed.

For those who think they aren't talented enough - just read through the rustic modern thread, you'll quickly see that most of us haven't the faintest idea what the he*l we're doing. Please don't feel intimidated.

I think we should heed mtnrdrerdux's comment. Please try to comment on other's kitchens/ideas (whether or not you've done a board). It is great to get feedback of all types. Yes we all love to hear if others like the kitchen, but I also want to know why certain ideas or elements don't work. Taking the time to comment on individual boards is truly worthwhile and an important part of the learning process for many of us. Just a quick sentence or two is enough.

I'm sorry if I came off as cranky, and misunderstood the comments. Impending rain does it to me and I should have known to leave it be. I really wasn't fishing for strokes. That said, Jterrilyn, thanks for the kind words, and to Pal and Marcolo for the acknowledgement. :) I'm coming to the end of a very long term, very gnarly project, and maybe I'll have more capacity for play soon.

Palimpsest, even though I'm not an avid DAT reader, I have noticed their general traffic, and I think you're right on about the biweekly schedule.

Everyone, besides being careful about calling out your elements on a design sheet or finish board (in my over-picky parlance, a "mood board" is made of elements unrelated to the product, so for a kitchen it would be a necklace, a folk dance costume and a car), remember to consider scale. A large swatch of a big pattern on a textile next to a small picture of a range is going to throw off the balance of what you're trying to communicate.

Jterrilyn, courage in design is about the confidence that you'll be able to get up when you fall, and the wisdom not to leap when you know the risk is far greater than the likelihood it'll work out. Feel free to e-mail me if/when you want a shot of encouragement. :)

One more thought as to the protocol of DAT.

Would it make any sense to post the DAT concept, and allow discussion, but have the "reveal thread" occur, say a week later?

My reasoning is this. I often felt a great deal of time pressure, lest someone interpret the DAT the same way and use something I wanted to use "first". Especially since so many of us are probably doing the same Google image search! I also didn't want to be influenced by others, so I would never look until AFTER i had posted mine. But then that was sometimes really too late to post and the momentum was gone.

There are flaws with this idea too, but it might be neat to have people post their reveals on a certain day ...

Just an idea.

I read the posts and very much enjoy them.

The proposed slightly slower pace would help me play as often as I'd like. I also like the idea of giving folks some time ahead to research or think about an upcoming theme (I'm not knowledgeable, and slow.)

Regarding comments from those not posting kitchen boards: I always welcome comments from anyone, because I've been doing these to learn, so input is really helpful. I have no practical experience and no knowledge of decorating styles, so sometimes a comment helps me "see" something, and then I can have an "aha!" moment. You don't have to be an expert in any style to have an opinion about whether or not you think something is interesting, awkward, or pleasing. You might know about a material that would have been an interesting choice for my kitchen. Or, you might ask if I had a particular reason for choosing something. Sometimes I ask others, and it always helps when I get a glimpse of the decision-making process behind the choice.

For those who have considered posting a kitchen, but hesitate because they don't have knowledge about decorating styles...I consider myself the poster kid for that scenario. I just follow the leads in the launch post, do some Google searches and reading on the internet for a bit of homework, and start working with ideas to see what I come up with. I figure, the worst scenario is, I'll end up investing some time in a board that doesn't work as well as I had hoped. The upside is, I always learn something in the process. I've started a few boards that I didn't ever finish enough to post, and I even learned from those efforts (but, I learn the most when I post.) Some topics don't require much of a knowledge foundation at all, like the Pink thread, or the Golden Oak thread. I know I make choices that aren't the best possible, but I think everyone here understands that we all need a starting point, and they have all been very kind and encouraging.

For those who are not sure how to build a kitchen board, check the thread that's included at the start of new DAT threads, About the Design Around This Threads, as it talks about different ways to build boards. If people post "how to" questions there, I'll try to help if I can. If you decide to try Olioboard as a tool to build a board, that site also has a good FAQ section too.

wallycat, to learn how to post pictures in this forum, I'd start with the Buehl's good Posting Pictures thread.

I think Skyedog's suggestion to name our kitchens is a good one, since the threads do get long and I'm always scrolling back and forth too, so I'll try to do that.

I'm going to check the size of my images in past boards; I'm sure these threads are a nightmare for folks on a dial up internet connection. I'm frankly not sure how using Olioboard affects the final file size (I do know it doesn't give you a chance to resize each element before adding it to your board.) I usually download my completed Olioboard collage to a software program on my computer for a final adjustment to the file size before I upload it to Photobucket. However, my files may still be quite large, and I'll see if I can figure out how to improve that.

mtnrdredux, interesting thought about dividing it up into two threads, although that could prove even more irritating to non-participants, I suppose. But it's worth considering.

I see the following format issues with the threads
- It is hard to comment. The format of this ancient forum software may actually be helpful for regular discussions but something like DAT would work better with nested threads, so that you could scroll to say, sochi's second kitchen and comment directly under it.
- Designs are mixed in with other kinds of posts, including pictures. In some threads that works out fine, in others it seems like you have to scroll halfway through to find the first design. Or it gets confusing.
- The "wrap-up" comments, which are necessary, seem to discourage people from keeping the thread going (unless it's Pink!).

I wonder if there's a way to use 2 threads to deal with these issues without making them even more complicated.

Mtnrdredux's idea for a delayed reveal might work wonderfully for all the reasons stated. Instead of being irritating to nonparticipants, I suspect it would be act as more of a commercial for an upcoming movie. Some would look for it, and others wouldn't, but the initial reveal would be great fun for those attending, with the promise of more coming.

The organization issues are real. Unless you're really involved so you remember all the designs over the days, most of the discussion doesn't make sense. I constantly pass over much of it and head for the pix, not because I don't know there're a lot of interesting thoughts in there, but because appreciating them would involve a great deal of hopping back and forth to understand. An initial reveal would probably help that somewhat, at least giving a comprehension and interest advantage to the first wave of designs and discussion which would be read as an event by many in a visit or two.

This is just an idea--no brickbats please!

Perhaps it would be worthwhile to move the DATs to Conversations? That way having separate threads wouldn't make them hard to find, and it would be easier for the participants to find everything. Maybe an announcement could be made in Discussions when a new DAT opened.

Conversations is underutilized anyway.

How about if the design challenge is set forth on day one, and then the designs could be presented starting one week later.

This would give everyonne a week to get a design developed, and then two weeks for discussion, because the discussion would start when the designs were presented and then could continue into the week after the next challenge was announced prior to their reveal.

I can work up something for Hollywood Regency and post it on Saturday or Sunday, if that's ok.

Hey Plllog, I have no problem moving forward after a fail as I'm my own worst critic and must prove to myself I can do it. I'm a fierce competitor to myself and completely self-motivated.
The leaping part, hum, well I am a leaper but not without mentally torturing myself to the point of insanity. Maybe I could be the inventor of a new decorating tag term called Insanity Decor. The definition being a mix of completely unrelated junk brought together through odd color combinations and with no regard for what's "in" lol.

Pal, I will look forward to the Hollywood Regency!

I think that sounds great, pal. Please link to the "About" thread in the post. I think some people will need visuals to help them understand the style. There's a good quote by Jonathan Adler explaining the style but of course I can't remember it.

There is a lot of confusion about the style which I would say lasted from about 1940-1970 and mixed and encompassed styles from deco to colonial revival to 18th century French and American in with midcentury modern.

I place it in this extended period because I consider William Haines, Dorothy Draper, James Mont, Tommi Parzinger, Karl Springer, Michael Taylor and Tony Duquette all to have worked in this style, to some degree.

Does anybody want to add any designers to the list of the originals? (I think Kelly Wearstler revived it and Jonathan Adler cashed in by copying individual pieces of their work verbatim, but I will really try to reference original period.

I think as with other styles we have worked in, Hollywood Regency will pretty much be an application of the style to a kitchen since the typical HR house would have had a period kitchen of 1940-1970, and it would have likely been a pastel Saint Charles kitchen with a big Chambers or Tappan Fabulous 400.

So I think we are going to be applying Hollywood Regency furniture styles to a current kitchen rather than recreating kitchen that would be in a Hollywood Regency era house--which goes back to a "period kitchen" design.

So any designers to add to the list? Any comments on my thought process on this?

I think it's important to include Wearstler and Adler so that people realize this style is now very commercial and "in," and in fact is the name for the style of many items they see today in catalogues and magazines.

If you're up to it, you might point out which elements in a photo make it Hollywood Regency versus traditional chinoiserie, for instance, and what parts are modern.

And finally, if you get on a roll, you might include two or three pics of the range of houses that this style would fit nicely into, from a high-style '40s house (not an intact Levitt tract home) to a modern high rise condo in an urban area.

Not to make work for you, but since you asked. ;-)

I would love to see Hollywood regency.

I'm reading them all.