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theresse_gw

Contractor will walk away if I sign contract

theresse
13 years ago

Hi folks, long time no talk.

As some of you know, my kitchen (relatively small project) has turned into a nightmare. While my contractor was out of town, I got bids from other carpenters on removing my cracked, under-mounted farm sink and replacing it with a new one (in case my contractor were to get overwhelmed and walk away, not finishing the kitchen - e.g. if he were to say it wasn't his fault; I was saving time). That resulted in these guys telling me the rest of the cabinetry work was unacceptable (framing in the dishwasher; poorly done scribing; terrible reveals between the doors and more).

Long story short: last night my contractor offered to walk away from the project with the agreement that he wouldn't ask for his final payment owed to him (if finished and nothing had gone wrong) of about $5,000.00, IF I sign a contract saying I won't file a claim with the CCB should anything else go wrong. He also offered to do the work himself, correcting everything, in which case I'd pay him at the end if all looked right.

I'd like him to leave, nice a guy as he is, but I'm worried about the CCB part. Most of the contractors who came by said they wouldn't touch another contractor's job - that they'd have to gut it and start over. But two people said it wasn't bad enough that they couldn't just make a bunch of corrections and make it "well enough." The one I liked the most said he'd do it (all of it) for around $3,000-$3500.00. That would leave a couple of extra thousand as a cushion but that wouldn't be enough if he ran into bigger trouble.

Any advice??

Thanks my friends...

Comments (25)

  • lascatx
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You don't have to sign a contract for him to go away -- you just leave open the possibility of claims going in both directions. I'm not sure what CCB stands for -- is it a consumer protection/BBB thing? A small claims court? If it is a BBB thing and that is all you release, you won't have waived small claims court. Cabinetry may not be the only thing he's not too great at.

    You could tell him you want to try to get someone else to repair the job because you don't have confidence in someone who tried to pass the work off as quality in the first place (and if I remember the other post about this correctly -- wasn't candid with you about the lack of his experience in this type of work -- in which case there is nothing to suggest that his second attempt would be much better and not worse than the first). I'd tell him that I'd talked to some others, and while most don't want to touch a fix-it job, there are one or two who think they can fix things for what you would still owe him and that if you are able to get the sink resolved and replaced and the other issues taken care of within that amount, then you will agree to waive any further claims. I wouldn't tell him there could be a cushion -- you may need it and no reason to get into who gets what out of something you may not have. You've lost sleep over this -- it's okay if he loses a little while he waits to see if everything settles out okay.

  • dianalo
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Make your decision once the new guy is done. If $5k is not enough, then you can ask for more. If it is, then you can sign a waiver then. There is no rush to sign.....

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  • oldhousegal
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I was wondering if you were still having problems with this!

    Have you contacted the contractors board here in Oregon to see if he's got priors? You might check that out, and while you're talking to someone at the board, ask them if they think that's an acceptable offer from your contractor.
    If he has priors with the CCB, I'd be very concerned, because that $5000 is being used as a bribe. Here's what I copied off the Oregon CCB website:

    Use a written contract. Contractors are required to provide a written contract
    for projects over $2,000. The CCB recommends a written contract for all projects. A written contract protects you and the con- tractor. Put all agreements, including all changes to the contract, in writing. Generally, the more de- tailed a contract is, the fewer problems that will come up later. A big project should have a detailed contract, not "remodel master bed- room, $19,450." Make sure the name on the contract matches a name in the contractor�s CCB li-
    cense record. Don�t sign the con- tract until you understand every- thing. Make sure your contract does not include a provision that says you cannot file a complaint with the CCB. Get all warranties in writing as part of your contract. Make sure you understand what is and is�nt covered.
    As of July 1, 2008, contracts with an owner to build a new, residential structure must contain an offer of a warranty. The law does not specify how long the warranty must be in place or that it is at no cost to the homeowner. Be sure you understand who is providing the warranty (it could be your contractor or a third-party) how long the warranty period lasts.

    I get the nice guy thing, but the bottom line is that you've paid for a product and expect to get a quality product in return. I think it's time to play a bit of hardball and stick up for your rights.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Oregon CCB

  • Sharon kilber
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Nice guy, or not he, was not there a nice guy,contest. You hired him, to do a job right. Do not sign any thing for this so called contractor, turn him, over to the broad of contractor's. So he, does not do this to the next poor person.

  • weissman
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    No hurry to sign anything with your first contractor - keep you options open. I'd hire the new guy that you like to finish up the work and then if you're happy give your first contractor the heave ho. At that point make sure HE SIGNS a release of lien so that he doesn't come after you for the remaining money.

  • John Liu
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    This is what I would do.

    A letter to the contractor, certified mail, return receipt requested. Stating the following:
    - List of all the major (and minor) problems that have been found in his work and that of his subs. Include delays that were his or their fault. State the work has been inspected by other contractors, and the problems indicate incompetence and negligence on his part.
    - List what has to be done to correct and finish the work.
    - State he has offered to forgo the final payment if you promise not to file a CCB complaint.
    - The unacceptable work quality shows he is not capable of completing this project in an competent, acceptable and timely manner. You have been forced to hire another contractor to repair and complete the work. You expect this will cost you substantial additional money, well over $5K.
    - You will make a decision on filing a CCB complaint against him after you know how many of the problems can be corrected, and the final cost to you.
    - Absolutely no ''nice-ness'', no concessions, no ''it was partly my fault'' in the letter. This letter is going to be Exhibit A in any future lawsuit.

    Then let him live in suspense. When the next contractor has (hopefully) fixed the work, decide what you want to do. Most likely would be to then require him to provide you with a release of mechanics' lien, in return for you not pursuing him for the additional money and delay. He will ask for a promise to not complain to CCB, you can decide on that. You need to research mechanics' liens in Oregon, to determine exactly what sort of release you will want, whether it has to be from just him or from all subs, and how much a release of lien really matters in your situation (e.g. when you expect to sell the house etc). Contacting the CCB for information makes sense.

    I would communicate with him in writing from now on. Letter or email.

    Also research the next contractor you are considering. Get references and check them.

    You need to turn up your b*tch dial. You are such a nice person that you probably haven't touched that dial in a very long time, but rummage around, you'll find it :-)

  • athomesewing
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Never ever give up your rights to do something. Just as they say:

    "Make sure your contract does not include a provision that says you cannot file a complaint with the CCB."

  • Buehl
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Re: Reporting/Not Reporting the first contractor to the CCB

    Did you research the first contractor prior to hiring him? Did you check with the CCB?

    I'm asking b/c I'm wondering how many other similar situations he's been in...and getting those other homeowners to agree to not report him to the CCB. If the CCB doesn't know about him, they can't do anything about him (like revoking his license). Also, others will not be able to find out how he really is business-wise. He may be a nice person personally, but he sounds like he's incompetent professionally. Others need to know this so they don't end up in the same situation you are currently in (and might not be if you had known this about him before.)

  • artemis78
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I generally agree with most of what's been said above, but will just weigh in that my read on the situation (and I may be missing info!) was more along the lines of the problems my parents had with their contractor when they did their kitchen: it's not that he's incompetent, but that he's in way over his head with this particular project, probably because he hasn't done many kitchens like this one before (e.g., hasn't done inset work, hasn't installed an apron-front sink, hasn't done dishwasher panels so didn't know about the clearances, etc.) and wasn't upfront about this at the beginning, when Theresse could have opted to work with someone else. I do see that as being different from being a totally incompetent contractor, though the end result might be the same. But I wouldn't necessarily expect the former to be reflected in CCB reports in that case, because it might be that most of the other work he's done has been "easy" and so he's done it relatively well. Doesn't change the next steps, really, but just something to think about, since I don't think it's an uncommon scenario.

  • morgne
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Theresse,

    I don't recall you previously mentioning being unhappy with the cabinet install?! I had no idea you were having issues there.

    Could you post pictures of the details the other contractors were pointing out to you? I'm interested in seeing what the other contractors are seeing.

    What a frustrating time for you! You have my sympathy for having to deal with this!

  • ci_lantro
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    But two people said it wasn't bad enough that they couldn't just make a bunch of corrections and make it "well enough." The one I liked the most said he'd do it (all of it) for around $3,000-$3500.00.

    That tells me that this wasn't a total hatchet job so I would assume that this contractor has learned a lot on this job. So, I would take the expedient route & sign the contract to get the lien release. Water under the bridge and move on to getting your kitchen finished.

    FWIW, inset cabs and scribed sinks aren't jobs for beginners. Make sure that the next guy is experienced with this type of work.

  • chrisk327
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    haven't seen the job, but here are my thoughts regarding this.

    if you're not confident he can fix the problems, then take the offer. however, the guy you're hiring to fix better be good, or else you're wasting your time. the low bidder on a job like that is not the best option generally.

    I'm not sure what the problem is with your kitchen really, and I'm sure that if reveals on inset doors are a problem, they may not be able to be completely fixed, but gutting a just done kitchen is a very extreme measure. Some contractors are primi donnas who say, they won't touch another person's project without ripping it out, but realistically, unless they built the house, they are touching other people's work. Unless there is reason to beleive that there is a problem with your plumbing or electrical, ripping out everything is not going to be required.

    the key to this is being very specific with what the problems are that they will be tasked to fix.

    and for the comments on giving up your rights for free, that is incorrect.

    she's giving up her rights for $5000. He's entitled to finish the job and collect his money. if you hire someone else to complete and he challanges you in court that he was going to come out, make the adjustments, fix the little problems, you'll owe him the $5k.

  • davidro1
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It's easy to corner him so that he's _Not_ entitled to feel he is welcome come in whenever he feels like he might want to "finish the job and collect his money." He's already conceded that much, psychologically. He doesn't have much leg to stand on to go to court saying "golly I was going to come out, make adjustments, fix little problems, so like i think i'm owed $5k." It's easy to corner him so he has every reason to move on and forget this and no incentive to cry later that he "could've".

    But theresse if you need support, post a couple sample paragraphs of your future letter and let people get the verbs just so and remove adjectives and adverbs from it. That will be like seeing him be-armed and be-legged by the Gardenweeb horseback militia (quoting Maria Bamford here).

    Hth

  • lascatx
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    He is not entitled to be paid fully for a job that he doesn't do fully, either in terms of quality and completion, and he has conceded both in this case. If he has breeched the original contract, the issue is no longer performance under the contract but one of remedies. He has proposed 2 alternatives, but they need not be the only ones.

    I would be angry at anyone who misrepresented their experience and ability in taking on the job and I would be doubly angry at that person when they then wanted to a waiver of claims before the work was completed. He may simply want to be done with something that was beyond him, but he may also have reason to fear that the problems may be greater than the balance due under the original contract.

    The only reason to give up a right to bring any claims against him, in my mind, would be if he had claims to make against you. He has concede that the work is not finished and not up to par. You have other contractors to back that and he knows it. The probability of him asserting a lien or other claim at this point are extremely slim in my mind. If he did, it would seem pretty easy to get it dismissed. I that light, giving up the ability to make a claim against him would be something given for nothing or very near nothing. I think I'd be willing to take a small risk on a headache I know should be easily dealt with rather than to give up my rights to who knows what should there be greater problems. For a bigger headache, it might be worth washing your hands of him and moving on, but this is nowhere near that size of a headache or risk to me.

  • igloochic
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Misrepresenting your experience us actually worse than incompetence....it's incompetence coupled with dishonesty.

    Signing a waiver to hide his dishonesty is actually just the same as joining his dishonest team. You waive or don't file when you know you need to and you allow him to come along and screw the next guy....that guy could be me and I don't thank you for keeping your mouth shut!

    Get off his nice guy band wagon. He has robbed you and now wants to bribe you.....nice guy? I think not.

  • theresse
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thanks so much everyone! I called the CCB who told me that regardless of ANY paperwork or contract that my contractor wants me to sign, I have the state right to file a report with the CCB and get money from his bond if need be. In other words, the contract I'll sign will be meaningless because I can still file a claim in the future, regardless. Whew - that makes things a lot easier! At the same time, the contract - written by he and his partner - shows that they're releasing me or at least that's their intention, in writing. That can't hurt.

    Lascatx - CCB stands for construction contractor's board. I won't mention the cushion, thank you. If the rest of the work goes of without a problem (not holding my breath) I will consider giving my contractor some much smaller amount of money for any work he did that he didn't goof up.

    Dianalo - thank you! :)

    Oldhousegal - yes I've looked into him and he has nothing negative on his record. He's been a contractor for 5 years - those are the only two things they could tell me about him - oh besides that he has a $20k bond. Thank you for all that info as well as the link!

    Shar-az - thank you for your support. I hear what you're saying. The problem is that even the CCB said they can't guarantee that I'd "win" the case because the issues with his work are mostly aesthetic. They'd be more likely to find a compromise for us and I think his walking out the door, giving up his 1/3 final payment is better for me. I've gone through enough stress and awkward feelings that I honestly don't feel like I have the strength left to pursue this further with him and file a claim, even though I understand your point. I truly believe he's learned a HECK of a lot on this job - to the extent that yes he should be paying me as if I were "contractor's college" - haha. I don't think - under these circumstances - that I'm being unusually nice NOT to report him if I get what I want without having to do so. I believe that in the future, he'll think twice about tackling a job that's beyond his ability. Even though he brought it on himself, this was a real nightmare for him and while he's not a good contractor, he's not that stupid, either. He lost a lot of money on this job. The first 2/3 of the money went almost all to sub-contractors, a new electrical panel, plumbing, permits, etc. Not saying "oh poor guy" necessarily but I just don't think he's willing to lose that much ever again - and I do think he learned a lot -the hard way.

    Weissman - Thank you. The contract that he wants me to sign has a release of lien written into it (not by a lawyer but I think that's good enough). As others here have pointed out, I think I have enough evidence via emails that he couldn't come after me and really expect to have a positive outcome, and I think he knows that.

    Johnliu - Thank you for making that list for me! Much of what you wrote, I have done, though not all. I didn't send anything certified mail but I have printed-out copies with concise lists as well as plenty of email exchanges. Haha to needing to turn up my b*tch dial. That dial's well used actually, but admittedly not so much when it comes to using it in these types of situations. I have a friend (who happens to be a lawyer) who is SO quick to be confrontational that I find myself just not wanting to be like that. I don't mind being assertive usually (although I admit I've been a real wuss with this guy, in some ways - not in others obviously) but confrontational people seem so toxic, you know? Generally though I agree with you.

    I will INDEED be getting and checking references in the future as well as checking with the CCB in advance, etc. ABSOLUTELY! Man oh man have I learned a lesson! The guy I got a good hit off of charges a bit much according to a friend of my mom's who is a contractor/designer (I won't work with him because of his personality - long story - but he's very helpful in many respects). He said I think $3,500-3,800, possibly less (he said a week's work @60.00/hour) to repair all the things my contractor goofed up on, plus to remove the cracked farm sink and replace it with the new one, scribing again but a good job, and painting, etc. So on one hand it's less than what I'd be paying my contractor but I'll still meet with a couple of other contractors so I can know how reasonable the first guy's price is.

    Athomesewing -thank you! As I wrote at the top, it appears I don't have to worry after all. :)

    Buehl - I didn't research him well enough. I checked with the CCB and knew he had no complaints. I hired him cause my neighbor who is a pretty close friend (was??!) highly recommended him after he landscaped her back yard and remodeled her basement, which looks nice, at least if you're not going around and looking at details closely. She spoke highly of his work ethic and said how he cares about the environment and how he and his partner-brother are really decent people, etc. etc. Then that same lawyer friend I was talking about above checked on Angie's List and said she saw positive comments (how stupid was I not to ask her to go into more detail?? We were in a hurry when we talked and we never talked further about it!) and THEN my close friend hired him - having heard what I'd heard - to do her small bathroom (it was probably a pre-fab kit job, in retrospect) and she said he did a great job. It was after my contractor had begun work on my kitchen that she called me to say he did a bad job installing windows on a second project...I remember thinking "uh oh." So there's my long-winded answer to whether I researched him ahead of time. Not so much. I went on those two friend-references which usually holds more weight, right? Not enough... As I was saying to someone above here, I think my project was like going to school for him. I think he learned a lot, the hard way. I feel better about his work in the future for other people, actually, though you might think that's me just being in big-time denial. My assumption is that he's done projects for friends and family prior to my neighbor's basement but who knows.

    Artemis78 - BINGO. I totally agree. And in fact - in his defense (oh no there she goes again, defending him! ;) he was originally only supposed to take my ugly, pre-existing and non-original lower cabinets and make them look better by making the doors stay on better and repainting, etc. (much less removing and installing essentially custom-made cabinets with inset doors, yes) and then neither he nor I discussed which type of sink I'd be getting until after the contract was signed. I didn't have enough experience to know it would be an issue (do now). Furthermore, neither he nor I realized i'd be picking a wall-mounted faucet, and that therefor the farm sink would have to sit back more rather than stand out proud (the latter case of which would result in a much easier job, and for which he'd done in the past he said) so he'd end up having to do 3-dimensional scribing. Then to top it all off, neither he nor I realized I'd be picking out an integrated dishwasher door, sure enough. So basically he walked into the project thinking it would be a much easier job, though when I told him I wanted to do these upgrades, he never said he couldn't do it. He said it would be a little tougher and would take a bit longer in some cases (more money) but that he's good - he can do it. That's where things went south. :( How was I to know he was challenging himself to figure it out and was actually too inexperienced when it came to these complications? I didn't even know enough about kitchen remodels to know these things could be a problem at all. Thank you.

    Morgne - Thanks for having sympathy. Crazy huh? I didn't know I was having issues with the cabinetry in general either (!) until I had other carpenters come in - when my contractor was out of town - to give me an idea of what it could cost to remove the sink without damaging (hopefully) areas around it, and then to reinstall the new sink. I was worried my contractor would deny having cracked the sink and could possibly refuse to be accountable and fix it himself, so I wanted to get ahead of the game to save time. It was when these carpenters showed up that they looked at the rest of the cabinetry and said things like "what happened here?" and "why is the dishwasher framed in so that it can't be removed?" and "I'm really sorry to have to tell you this but this is pretty shoddy work" and "who did your cabinetry?" and "your doors and drawers aren't on evenly and have no reveals - they're on too tight - these should be 1/8 of an inch" and "this scribing is - hehehea (awkward laugh) pretty awful (wince) ." One guy said right off the bat that he wouldn't touch this guy's work with a ten-foot pole and another guy said I should report him to the CCB and tear it all out and start from scratch. So there you have it - that's what's been going on! :-/ I will post pics, thanks. The old pics will show some of it, though the bad scribing probably can't be seen closely enough and the dishwasher door which looks terrible may not have been installed yet either. Also - since last taking pics - my contractor put hand-made lightrails in (just strips of wood cause I didn't want anything fancy looking to go with my simple shaker hundred-year-old upper cabs) and when he nailed them in place, he didn't have them attached flush. Why oh why is beyond me. They're almost flush, but enough not that he had to try to putty it in (probably the wrong kind of putty too) but that didn't hide the off-ness. I'll take pics soon, thanks. Oy!

    Ci lantro - I agree. I'd asked him if he could handle that (it was actually he who suggested inset with the face frame to match the look of the original uppers more). I remember asking with some concern about the scribing job and he said something to the effect of "no it's not a problem - I'm actually really good at this type of work, though it's time-consuming due to it being 3-dimensional..." I didn't even know what scribing was before he introduced it to me! I will DEFINITELY make sure the new person knows how to do this type of work, thank you!!

    Chrisk327 - that's why I'm okay with paying more (e.g. the $3,500-3,800 guy, if need be). I'm not screwing around anymore and I'll take full advantage of this opportunity to pay the same or less, but to have it done right. Not everyone gets such a second chance, you know? I agree that ripping it out is extreme. I'm assuming the general plumbing and electrical is okay (though truth be told, there's a leak under the sink which is the reason the sink got hairline cracks in the first place: because my contractor was trying to fix the leak and tightened the flange! And then a few days later the leak came back, regardless). The only concern about the cabinets is that they're a bit uneven. E.g. if you measure the left side of one cab's opening in height, then measure the right side of that cab's opening in hight, there's a discrepancy, which makes the cab doors uneven. So the new guy will have to remove the doors and carefully cut them to fit the opening unevenness. I am being very specific about what needs to be fixed, and have a very detailed list based on the comments from the various guys who came in to see the kitchen. I also agree that he's at least on the surface entitled to come back and fix the problems himself - even the CCB more or less said as much (they're not allowed to say much at all, without a case being opened).

    Davidro1 - hahaha thanks! :)

    Lascatx - yes I see your point - but the good news is that now I don't have to give up my CCB rights! Yahoo!

    Igloochick - I see your point too! Thank you for your frankness. I only wish I didn't feel pushed into the corner of having to defend him - haha. As I wrote in one of the paragraphs above (you may not each be reading what I've written to every one of you) - I do honestly believe he'll never make this mistake again. I think that the changes we made once started were not anything he predicted (the original plan was something much, much simpler) and he thought he could handle it but found out he couldn't. Next thing he knew he was in over his head. I think he knows that now and won't make the mistake again of allowing difficult scribing or anything else too challenging. He even said next time he'd pay someone else to help him if it came to that (like a sub-contractor). He lost a LOT of money on this job, as most of the money I've already paid went to the sub-contractors or materials. It's also not every day that someone asks you to push back a Shaws farm sink with rounded front corners. Usually they stand out proud - I'd say 95% of the time if not more. He also learned a lot from my job - even though yes, at my expense. He's robbed me of my time, yes, I won't argue with you there - but not my money at this point. I don't feel guilty about what he'll do in the future because both he and his partner were very humbled by this experience, and embarrassed even and I just don't think he's going to make the same mistakes again. He had a clean record before this and he wants to keep it clean and doesn't want to trick people. He just made a huge mistake and is dealing with it now. People aren't all black or white. I'm NOT defending him as much as it might sound like I am - I think he did me a terrible disservice but I don't think he meant to and I know he'd never put himself or the client in this position again. I simply don't perceive him as a villain. If I really thought he was capable of doing this a second time, I wouldn't think twice about reporting him, honestly. I can tell by the way it panned out that he's never gone through anything like this before. Now all that said, I wouldn't be able to refer him, if I were to get a phone call in the future or if a friend wondered how I liked him. I'm just not going to file a claim over this since he - in the end - was willing to work with me.

  • lascatx
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just to be safe, I'd tell him the CCB said a release wouldn't be effective and that you won't put yourself or him through the sham of signing one (and he might as well know that for the future), but that you will tell him you have no intention of going after him for more if you can reasonably resolve the problems for what is still outstanding. If you can't, you will discuss it with him before taking any other actions.

    I couldn't sign in good faith if I knew I was essentially tricking him -- that's sinking to a lower level and doesn't solve anything. You never know how that might come back to bite you either. Keep it clean.

  • theresse
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Excellent advice Lascatx, thank you! I'd considered not saying anything only to avoid any extra awkwardness (I can't imagine having to go after him since he's letting me keep the price of building the cabinets in the first place)...but that did indeed give me a super slimy feeling and I was realizing I'd probably end up telling him - just cause I can't imagine not doing so. I'll be straight. :)

  • weissman
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Actually lascatx, I disagree with you in this instance. She can sign the document in good faith and get a release from lien from him. If she doesn't sign it, it most likely will leave her mired in a sticky situation. The fact that the document that he wants her to sign, MAY not hold up in the future is not her problem.

  • lascatx
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    But the fact that the document could be used as evidence against her could be her problem. It could be used to show her intent to release him and to claim that she received new value for that release, so even if her release of him alone might be void as a matter of law, there could be an equitable estoppel or other issues that might come into play and work against her. In my personal life and professional life, the later part practicing law, I found that being straight with folks was not always expected but almost always appreciated and led to better resolutions and satisfaction. Sometimes it takes some talking to get past the distrust or fears of being lied to or taken, but it's worth it. The few who can't be happy with being straight are usually so because they weren't being honest or looking for fairness in the first place and nothing you could do was likely to change that.

    She doesn't have any lien worries to speak of --just a headache of going through the process if he were foolish enough to go that route. Doesn't sound like he wants that either, and I think he'd appreciate hearing that if there are no surprises or only a few little ones, she believes all her expenses should be covered, she should be able to get everything done and be able to thank him for working with her towards a resolution.

    Rebuilding trust is not a bad thing, and you can do it and look out for yourself at the same time. With a little patience and a little luck, I hope she will never have to find out if it would make a difference either way.

  • igloochic
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Theresse....just one more thought, which won't change your mind but hopefully will help someone else in this situation.

    He came to you and asked you to sign a bs contract using bribery or coercion (won't bill you nor will he file a lien) so that you won't advise anyone about his incompetence. This is not what a guy who makes his first mistake does. That's a pretty black and white route taken by someone who screws up enough to know they need to cover their arses.

    He had issues with the windows and lied about his experience to you. Obviously your job is not the first he's missed up on.

    why am I so adamant that this case should be reported? Because I hired not one but three of these crooks during my remodel. I did check their references (all lied) and they had no bond filings nor complaints. Yet after it all went to he'll I found out through a couple kds that these guys had all done similar crap in the past but no one filed. I dislike every whimp that didn't file because they could have saved me the absolute hell I went through. It takes not much more effort than yur posts here to file a formal complaint and it could save someone from him on the next job he screws up (guys who make their first mistake do not show up with bs contracts). I filed complaints and went the extra step of tying up their bonds so no one else would go through the he'll I did. You are treating this guy like your buddy....sell the house tomorrow and see what his work costs you....he's taken money out of your pocket because if you don't fix things (which costs money) it will cost you on the back end.

    An honest guy says...I haven't done that. Let me do some research or bring in another sub. I dishonest guy goes ahead....after all, who is going to find out as long as he's a "nice guy".

    Shaking my head....what an arse this guy is....I wonder if his next victim will post a similar story here or elsewhere? She/he won't be speaking highly of those who kept their mouths shut.

  • weissman
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    lascatx - the reason I disagree with you is that this is an adversarial situation and therese has no obligation to share with him what she learned from the CCB. In fact are we sure that what she learned is indeed accurate - is it in writing somewhere or merely the opinion of the clerk she spoke to on the phone. Also, Therese is not required to "know" that information - if she hadn't called the CCB, she wouldn't. I agree being above board and honest in general are good traits but I'm not sure sharing that info with the contractor is in her best interest. Just my two cents.

  • chrisk327
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    "He came to you and asked you to sign a bs contract using bribery or coercion (won't bill you nor will he file a lien) so that you won't advise anyone about his incompetence. This is not what a guy who makes his first mistake does. That's a pretty black and white route taken by someone who screws up enough to know they need to cover their arses."

    I'm really not sure where you're coming from on this. which part is bribary or coercion? its not a bribe, its a settlent. he didn't do the job to the homeowners satisfaction rather than complete it (which he did offer to do) he offered a deduction on the price. signing a lien release is part of any completion of work, or settlement.

    what is the point of a settlement contract if you don't agree that you're not going to go after him further for more money or anything else?

    I don't see him as robbing the OP. He underdelivered and got in over his head, which is a problem. he either needs to fix the problems, which he offered to do, or discount from the contract price enough to give you satisfaction and get the job completed by someone else.

    file any complaint you like, but really, you want your kitchen done. if you settle the contract with the settlement agreement the only complaint is that his cabinetry work was subpar and needed to be corrected by another contractor. Certainly a severe problem, I wouldn't hire him with that complaint, but he didn't steal from you.

  • theresse
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I appreciate the advice from each of you, thank you. It can be viewed from the perspective of a bit complex, or else very simple/black and white. Just depends on how one sees it which often stems from one's past experiences, obviously. It's all worth thinking about, and nothing should be overlooked. The more shared information, the better. I'm really grateful that each of you has taken the time to help me out here! He was supposed to show up today at some point but I haven't heard from him yet and at this time of the evening I don't expect I will (5:30 pm on a Friday night). You'll love this part: gee, I hope he'll give me my house key back! I can hear you all now... "Aaaargh you stupid chick!!!" ;) Sorry but after a few months of his comings and goings and my having to race home to let him in, I figured it would be easier. Yet another lessoned learned - I hadn't foreseen things getting ugly or awkward enough that I'd wish I hadn't given him my key! I trust him that he won't rob me though - but it's just no fun to ask for the key back. I know he should remember and offer on his own though, of course. But hey - he left a tool here - that's leverage.

    Thanks so much you guys. Will keep you posted.

  • Sharon kilber
    13 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You could get your lock's changed. I, know it would be costly. But he, could have made a copy of your key. Just the detective in me. Lol. I, hope everything comes out okay for you, and you get the kitchen, you deserve.