Hi again Tyrell. :) You wrote: "Patrick, often people seem to read things into my words, and those of others, that just aren't there." "For example, you wrote" "Claiming any one method for introducing organic matter to the soil is superior to all others -- at all times, in all situations, for all people -- doesn't fit with my experience." "If you read my post, you'll see I never said anything remotely like this. People may infer I meant this, or even that I implied it, but the simple fact is, I didn't Say it. " Well, here are some words you did say Tyrell. :) From your first post on this thread, above: "Composting is just extra work with no benefits. The same materials people put in a compost pile, they could put right in their gardens in the first place, as mulch." From your second post on this thread, above: "You didn't specify, but I assume you mean my claim that there are no benefits to composting. Maybe I should have stated that a little differently, like 'there's nothing that composting will do for gardens that mulching won't do-quicker, better, and with less work.'" And from your post on another thread in the Frugal Gardening forum: (see Re: Compost From Thrown-Away Materials) "Well, I realized a few years ago that composting has no advantages over mulching, which is the way I've gardened for 34 years now." As a reasonable man talking with a reasonable man, I sincerely invite you to explain how your statements above are so remote from my statement that you quoted, above: "Claiming any one method for introducing organic matter to the soil is superior to all others -- at all times, in all situations, for all people -- doesn't fit with my experience." I genuinely wasn't trying to read into your words, Tyrell. Nor am I trying to set up a straw man here. The conclusion I reached (and spoke to just above) seems to me to follow directly from the words you wrote, also quoted above. To summarize: If composting is "just extra work with no benefits" or "there's nothing that composting will do for gardens that mulching won't do-quicker, better, and with less work" and "composting has no advantages over mulching" -- then, doesn't it necessarily follow for you that mulching is a superior method for introducing organic matter to the soil? At the very least, superior to composting. If you disagree, I cordially invite you to explain where and how and why. As I said, to me it seems to necessarily follow from your statements above. No unreasonable implication or straw man argument was (or is) meant here. I prefer to deal with facts- like composting does break down organic matter faster, and IMO that is not an advantage. If you start getting into "interpratation," it causes all kinds of problems. Well, it is a fact in my garden that sometimes mulching is the best way of introducing organic matter; and sometimes composting works best -- for me. :) Interpret that as you wish. Further, I disagree with your blanket statement that breaking down organic matter faster is not an advantage. Sometimes, in my experience, a faster breakdown is most certainly a welcome and greatly sought-after advantage. I'm willing to offer the reasons for my opinions if you would like to hear them. "Some comments on a few other things you wrote." "I take the filters (in coffee grounds you get) out of the garden and layer them in the compost heap" "But why do you do this?" I've already answered this question Tyrell, in the paragraph where it was written, the two paragraphs immediately following, and in the substance of what I wrote for the rest of that post. Please scroll up and re-read what I wrote and if it isn't clear to you then let me know, okay? :) "Something else you wrote" "For example, I don't like to put toilet paper rolls or coffee filters or small branches right on the garden surface. Partly because they don't look as good to me as compost or a fine mulch, partly because they seem to take longer to decompose." "On the last, faster decomposition just isn't a desirable thing, for the reasons I gave." Respectfully, I disagree with both your conclusion and with some of your reasoning. And as above, I'm willing to offer my reasons for my opinions, if you would like to hear them. "And this" "but I wonder if the greater surface area of the garden bed also results in greater losses of organic materials due to wind erosion?" "I would be highly doubtful of this? The finer, partly decomposed materials will always be near the bottom, right on top of the soil. The rougher material on top has never been moved in my garden by even the strongest winds in this area. Of course we don't get hurricanes or-until this year- tornadoes, but I think the garden would be the least of people's worries if those struck?" Indeed, a hurricane does usually re-arrange priorities -- and gardens. :) Wind erosion is certainly far less of a problem on soil surfaces covered with a mulch or compost layer. Equally so, water erosion. However, neither compost nor mulch are 100% effective barriers to the physical actions of wind or water. Physical erosion will happen, even if greatly slowed by a layer of organic matter. Further, I didn't state this point directly in my prior post, but it seems to me to directly follow from other statements I made. Decomposition -- in a mulch, lasagna bed, or compost heap -- is a chemical and biological process as well as a physical process. Biochemical forms of surface-layer erosion (most signifigantly the leaching of nitrogen down into the soil and nitrogen outgassing into the air) also happen with all three forms of decomposition. It seems obvious to me that the greater surface area and the lower density of a mulch piled right on the soil would tend to increase the biochemical erosion of nitrogen -- and of carbon. "And this" "Personally, I'd rather do the work of building, turning and screening the compost materials which I don't want to put directly in the garden," "That's your absolute right, Patrick, (though I might not 'defend to the death' your right to do it? lol) Heh. Not to worry. :) My garden is worth living for, not dying for. "...but I've had the experience, here in 'the real world,' of giving something from my garden to someone. They just looved the whatever, so I would ask why they didn't garden themselves. And more than once people have responded with something like, 'Oh, we would love to. But we only want to grow organically, and all that work composting, tilling, and weeding..' It really is a tragedy that many people know they Could, not Have To, but could garden without doing 'all that work.' I agree we should all try to help more people garden with less work. If you do a search on the Soil, Compost and Mulch forum here on GW for my prior posts, you'll see plenty of examples where I've given my time and efforts to helping people do more with less. And I do the same in my daily life, out here in the real world. :) "Finally you wrote" "Hope those opinions add more light than heat to this very interesting discussion. :)" "You seem like a reasonable person, and think I am, too." Thank you. I try to be, and I try to assume others are too. "I try to keep as open a mind as possible. I am constantly checking out books from the library on 'the latest' in gardening. I read one on Lasagna Gardening and two on Weedless Gardening just within the past year. (As soon as they start talking about tilling, though, they lose me.) If I could find a way to grow fruits and veggies that is easier, cheaper, and produces the same or better results as the mulch method, I would switch in a second." "So far I haven't." Fair enough, that's your experience and I wouldn't suggest you change what you do, if it works for you. It's your garden. :) I do respectfully disagree with your blanket claim there are no benefits or advantages to composting, over the composite or lasagna mulching processes you've described. As I wrote before: "Tyrell, I don't disagree with your style of adding organic matter to your garden -- I use it myself. Nor would I ever say someone needed to have a compost pile to make a garden, organic or non-organic." "I do think lasagna-style composting or mulching is not for everyone, nor is it right in every situation." All the best, -Patrick

I found the tax shelter in this posting when searching for a gift for my brother. He is a tax preparer and has everything. So I just had to share what I did for him. I took one of those woodcraft houses from Walmart- removed the two screws from the base. I cut a 1" block of wood that fit into the bottom of the house. I glued this block onto the base thus allowing the top of the house to be easily lifted off the base. I cut a 1/2" groove in the center of the block with the table saw so I could set a card of thumb tacks into it. This was hidden in the house until the top was lifted off. I wrote a poem for this & read it to him while my daughter did a Vanna White presentation of the house. Everyone got a good laugh out of this and I finally did a complete craft project! It's been a while. Hope you have as much fun with this as we did. Here's the poem: I drew your name for Christmas It's an honor, don't you know To get my brothers name for Christmas Ah! ashopping I will go. But then I started frettin After searching high and low Whatever will I get 'im (Twas wrong to worry so!) I went into an office shop Maybe something for your desk? I talked to the clerk a lot She tried to aid me in my quest. He could use a tax shelter Is what the lady said It seemed a bit off-kelter But there was nothing left instead. So here's your little shelter All painted so very nice The foundation has been mended The roofs' been polished thrice. The flowers are all blooming In the big pot by the door The bumblebees are buzzing And there's no sawdust on the floor. It seems to be the perfect place I do agree she's right It sure beats a plain old case And your tacks! They're finally safe at night!

I have five kids (eldest is almost 12, youngest is almost 2) -- they are fantastic, incredible, wonderful creatures :-) We have four sons and a daughter, and our home is filled with the sounds of giggling and arguing and jumping and running and chitter-chatter. My husband and I go to bed every night thanking one another for the family we have. The first two boys (26 months apart) each arrived 11 weeks preterm (29 weeks' gestation) and required months of hospitalization in the NICU, including multiple surgeries, ambulance rides and long nights of wondering if they'd survive until morning. They finally became healthy little toddlers and I had my tubes tied, thinking there was no way I could bear to bring another baby into a terrifying scenario like that again. Time passed, and the yearning got only stronger for more children...I discovered the source of my obstetric problems (a congential gynecological defect) and underwent a grueling seven-hour surgery to repair my tubes and correct my dysfunctional anatomy. Went on to have three more scrumptious kids and now I have five healthy, gorgeous children. It's exhausting, yes. It sometimes causes a bit of financial juggling (I'm a SAHM). The volume in my house is often very high with clamors for my attention or frustrations among the siblings, but it's nothing compared to the joy of hearing them laugh uncontrollably during an afternoon of goofing off as a family. I don't worry about the teenage years -- we've done our best to lay the groundwork to raise our kids with enormous self-respect and self-esteem. They'll make mistakes, I'm sure of it, but hopefully they'll return to their core values and continue to grow into fine adults. Until then, we have years of baking cookies, chasing the dog around the backyard, monitoring homework and tidying up mountains of Hot Wheels and multi-colored wooden blocks with these sweet, funny little kids we're so lucky to call our own. It's all good. Create the family you want, and then pour your heart and soul into enjoying your blessings. If you already feel sad about *no more babies, ever* and the vasectomy hasn't even happened yet, you're clearly not ready to move on -- you'll know in your heart which path is right for you and your family. Warm regards.

Thanks all. We were going to do the toddler thing too. I had posted before about toddler beds and decided to skip it. But then, as we shopped my dh kept wanting to buy proper bed furniture (not just the mattress and boxspring) and he's a carpenter, so he liked all the wood ones. I wanted an Ikea type bed - low to the ground, probably with one mattress (no boxspring). We couldn't decide. When we saw this bed... we just fell in love. Anywya, maybe it was stupid and hasty, but I'm stuck with it now. (Hindsight is great eh?) So, I've stuffed the one side for now and there's no way he can get out, and I've got a giant couch like chair (that we usually read stories in) agains the other side. Either I'll customize the regular rails as suggested above, or get my hubby to rig something up. Hopefully, ds isn't too traumatized by it! Ugh. Ad