CM makes some good points here, but aren't the whole story.... (yeah....I know, this started in 2014) * No way is any store doing 3 "separate" draw-downs, unless CM meant 3 draw-downs from a single tinted can? * Yes I will...IF the customer is buying 3 Qts for me to play with....! * I've never been asked that in 15 years!!! * Depending on draw-down size, you start to affect the formula/color if you're brushing-out more than a tblsp total....ESPECIALLY for "whites". * We do a side-by-side, and tweak if necessary, until both parties are satisfied. * Then, we save the final "Matched" formula under a last name into the appropriate computer. * In all my years, we've maybe had 3 "paint batch issues"...& that's over ~~~ 8 different brands in 15 yrs. It's just too rare.... * It CAN take a half-hour to nail a color. And we've got damn-good scanners & tinters! >>> One over-arcing point here.... THERE IS NO such thing as a "perfect match". OPTICALLY, it's impossible. EVERY companies colorants & paints are different. It's like finding the "perfect spouse"!!! There's always SOMETHING that's a little "off". I strive for..."Close enough to be irrelevant". If I can't find my dried-off sample-match next to (or within a larger one) the original, it's done!! But...is it "PERFECT" ?!?!?!? You KNOW the correct answer now....;-) Faron

Me!?!?!?, hail no, I'm not that crazy lady. Good heavens she's a kook. . . . Well, okay, so maybe it might be me. ;-) If we recall, in my very first response to lottamoxie the very first line in my reply was: "Depends on how you want to define "match". Depends on what *kind* of color you're talking about." Just like almost everything else in color world, you gotta take it one person, one room, one color, one *kind* of paint at a time -- there is not much that is one-size fits all. I am so on board with not being able to "color match" the uber brands. If there is parade to raise awareness to prevent people from wasting their time and money doing so, I volunteer to carry the front banner. In my last post I talked about the two women at the Home Depot. In that example I would be the lady with the tragic trainwreck F&B color matching experience. I, personally, could never be the tickled pink woman who saved $20 and walks away thinking she got her boutique paint & color at a bargain price. As always, I can tell ya exactly why THAT scenario as well as the project from the Kennon site is different than lottamoxie's specific "color matching" endeavor that we have been discussing so far. Get comfy. :D 1. Lotta is looking at matching a Ben Moore color in Sherwin Williams Duration. The source that set her first visual benchmark for that color was a regular-size, ink on paper, paint chip. She hadn't seen that color in or on another house. 2. We're not talking about any extenuating circumstances here with paint or color. It's not an uber shee-shee final finish paint base like from Fine Paints or F&B, and she's not looking at complex color like C2 or a full spectrum. 3. Color benchmark that's been set by the color information she's been exposed to about that color deployed on structure to this point is normal and limited. (she's just seen a chip). Developing her expectations about what a "color match" means is easy. That is low hangin' fruit for a color consultant. (No offense lotta. I don't think you're a fruit, it's just a figure of speech) 4. Lotta mentioned an awareness, a desire, to make sure that the vibe and visual she is getting from that chip will translate into her gallons of paint. She's not looking to make sure she likes the color, she wants to make sure she GETS her color. Reassurance, like from PG, might be all someone needs. As a reminder PG told lotta that "close enough is good enough for most people". She understood what he said. What happened was that her expectations for "color match" relaxed and were now clarified and defined. Anxiety addressed. Thanks to Paintguy she now knows to expect close enough and she's decided to be okay with the parameters of "color match" that PG helped define. She's proceeding down that path. Moon added to the reassurance and has given her some pointers for along the way. Circling back around to the kooky lady on the Kennon site who says that full spectrum colors can't be "matched" and clarifying further just how that is different from lotta's situation: Kennon, Citron, C2 and some other brand's color chips are real paint, not ink on paper. They're also bigger than your standard paint chip. These factors set tougher color matching benchmarks, more refined color expectations to deal with and meet. This is one of the BIG things that painter in the story on the Kennon site chose to ignore. When trying to match regular to full spectrum, it involves differing mentalities, methods, philosophies and processes of mixing color. Lotta is going from Ben to Sherwin. Different paint products, but they are both essentially playing the game of color by the same rules and those rules include black and fewer colorants. Whatever else might be different between the brands, their color philosophy is the same. This is the other BIG thing that the painter in the story on the Kennon site chose to ignore. The Kennon colors use ICI bases and ICI colorants. The painter underestimated just how much color philosophy and mixing technique could matter. The leap from a Ben Moore color to a Sherwin Williams paint is not a big one from a color matching perspective. The leap from say, Citron, to Pratt & Lambert or whatever *regular* brand would be a much bigger leap due to many of those technical factors mentioned but ALSO because of color mixing practices. There is no *dubious practice* to color matching. There is just a lot of confusion surrounding what is fair and reasonable to expect in each unique color matching circumstance. The confusion is compounded by the fact that there is no resource that properly educates the consumer of color on how to buy color. That's because it is complicated, involved, and a whole lot of work to do so and there are not many people who are truly equipped to do it. As you've found there is all kinds of stuff out there about paint - because that's the easy part - but the information about architectural color, not Color Theory 101, is sparse and is heavily sprinkled with misinformation. The reason for that confusion, once again, can be attributed to the fact that there is little in color world that is one size fits all. Just because it may be difficult - almost impossible to match one particular color or finish does not mean that "color matching" will fail 100% of the time nor does it mean that there is no such thing as a "color match". CalGal, I think I addressed all the really good points you've brought up in your post(s). If not, post away with more. I could talk and talk and talk and talk about color! Maybe I really am a kook. :~D We just need to be sure that lottamoxie doesn't feel like her thread is being hijacked.

Well here's the thing that's changed significantly in the last, I dunno maybe 18 months or so... There are now hand-held colorimeters that cost less than $300 (with accompanying apps) available to anybody and everybody. What that means is you can measure the colors. No need for a blind test - we've evolved waaaaay beyond that. Granted a comparison using qualified observers (people) would still be interesting, I suppose, for some people. But if you're just wanting to answer the question, "is paint color mixed full spectrum really different from regular paint color using black.", it's ridiculously easy to answer it. Like stupid easy. And the data leaves no room for argument. The spectral distribution of the two colors will be different. Spectral power distribution (SPD) is sometimes called a color's fingerprint. The SPDs of the two colors will differ and the one mixed with more pigments (assuming a balanced mix was the objective) will have a more "full" SPD. So, if I were a paint company wanting to clarify our point of view on what full spectrum means, I'd be reaching for the fingerprints. Technology has rendered the debate can you tell the difference between a full spectrum color and a regularly mixed color inane. Yes. Unquestionably they will be different and you can easily and cheaply obtain the data to illustrate it. The full spectrum question to ask here in the year 2014 is how would you like to use that data to qualify and quantify full spectrum color? On the observer end of it, that doesn't change much. Different formulas can result in the same paint color. The fact still remains that through the process that is the human vision system, people experience and respond to color uniquely. It isn't far-fetched that some people would respond to paint colors mixed full spectrum different from how they respond to colors that are not. Whether they can differentiate between the two VISUALLY isn't the point. And this is a much a bigger and deeper issue. A much bigger and deeper issue than just mixing one color two different ways and having the results visually match.

Custom matching is possible. Computer matching is not 100% reliable, you need a good paint store with staff that have some color skilz. For every successful person with a "I walked in to Wal Mart and got my perfect color" story, there's another one for whom trying to get a color matched was a complete nightmare. Be prepared. Definitely have chip in hand. Make sure their "sample" is dry when you compare it to your chip and do your visual color checks outside or at least by a window -- north light is best. Lastly, if they can't nail the color to your satisfaction, you are not obligated to buy the paint. The manufacturers are all over the custom color matching thing, but sometimes the individual stores get a little cranky about it. You don't have to settle for close enough, no matter how whiny or intimidating the paint store staff can get. They all advertise the fact that they can match any other brand's color, so they should expect to be held to a quality standard.