How do you see using the island? It seems very far from the stove area for prep and is crowding the table area. To avoid a barrier island and have the fridge easily accessible from sink and stove, I would swap the counter area with the fridge. I would scoot the island toward the stove. You can probably lengthen the island if you want, and possibly widen it a bit, too, since the fridge will not be behind it.

Wow~I love the look of your new kitchen, the cabinets are so pretty;warm and rich looking. As far as the layout is concerned I'd also consider moving the island closer to the stove, or extend that counter to have an overhang to tuck a saddle stool under. That's what I have, with only 41" between my island on one side and a narrow 37" on the other side(measured countertop overhang to countertop overhang). I love having a place to perch away from the table and check out cookbooks etc. Good luck with everything!

Rhome- Very interesting suggestion. I had never actually considered moving the refrigerator but now that you have pointed it out I will have to spend a day or two and try to visualize exactly how that would work for us.

Twoscoops- If I do the alteration Rhome suggests then I can probably add in a seating area to the end of the island.

The only two potential problems that I see are:

- Since the refrigerator isn't counter-depth (no money in the budget for a new one) the fact that it extends 6" past the counertop may mean that the pantry door on that side won't be able to open completely and could interfere with the sliding drawer function.

- The larger island may make the kitchen feel a bit more crowded and give it an overall smaller appearance. Since we plan to sell this house within five years I would like to make sure that the kitchen appears both functional and spacious (at least as spacious as a 13'x20' kitchen can be)

Still, quite a bit to think about. Amazing how one little change like moving the refrigerator, changes so many other options.

1) Your plans are GORGEOUS!

2) What rhome said

3) your concerns about the interaction of the fridge and pantry are worth looking into carefully. If it truly is an issue, a couple of things might help: add a narrow filler panel to increase the space between the pantry and the fridge enough to make the doors and drawers function properly. Also, consider having your builder create a recess in the wall for the fridge by opening the wall and framing a header over it. I'm not sure if this is a hokey idea or not, but there must be someone out there who has tried it and can commment on feasibility and pitfalls. I think it's worth the trouble to move the fridge though.

I agree with rhome and slateberry -- move the fridge. I think it will make the island and work flow better, and it will also make the counter top more functional in my mind. Small counter spaces in caves tend to be underutilized and dropping zones for clutter. On the end, you open it up to serving, a snack zone where others don't have to come into the kitchen -- all kinds of possibilities. I would open the end wall to leave the space between the cabinets open if possible.

This might be a great place for trying to recess the fridge. Just turning the studs can gain a couple of inches, but you may be able to pick up a couple more depending on what is behind that wall. Worst case -- you look for a great deal on a CD. When you have a working fridge, you can wait for a scratch and dent, Craig's list or moving sale.

Unfortunately, wall behind the refrigerator is load bearing as is the column at the end of the wall and since taking those out and replacing them with a beam isn't in the budget I'm afraid that they have to stay.

The good news is that I have two possible plans for the cubbyhole created by those 24" deep cabinets on the wall.

We may either use that spot as a place for our toaster oven or else move the toaster oven over to the bar and use the space to store my cookbooks.

However, after looking at the kitchen and the revised plans, I now believe that moving the refrigerator is the thing to do as well.

Thank you Rhome for the idea!

This is exactly the reason why I created this thread for ideas just like that one.

The wall cabinet over the dishwasher might be better as a square edge cabinet. The gain in "look" means that at least a third of the space is too narrow for most uses. For the base end, there are smaller footprint "end" bases that would allow you to have more usable space.

The table needs to be smaller. To have a back-to-back stools and chairs arrangement ideally needs at least 5 feet between the counter edge and the table edge. You have 3.5 feet. This limits your choices to either the stools OR the chairs. I think you're aware of not being able to fit the fourth chair at the glass door.

Maybe do a bench seat under the northern window and a smaller round table with the bench as one seat and add chairs. This permits easier use of the back slider and lessens closing off the walkway around the island.

People need about 2 feet of counter edge. If you have small children, you might be able to use both stools for a little while - but two adults really don't fit in 36". I'm saying this simply to warn you that two adults will stick out into the side aisles as well as towards the table as drawn. If you draw a 2x2 foot square and position it at the table edge and the counter edge, that's closer to the space the average adult takes.

I can't help but wonder if you need the 5 to 6 seating positions you're trying to shoehorn in when you also have a dining room?

luclin, my current kitchen is very similar to your new layout. It is a well-laid out plan and functions very well.

A couple of points: having 48" between your island and the range is quite a bit and might feel too far. I have 42" and it is plenty for one person to be at the range and another working at the island or passing behind.

I would rather have an extra 6 inches or so at the dining end of the island than 4 feet of space at the cooking end. When you are preparing meals, people will congregate around the island. Also, if someone is sitting at the table, with their back to the island, I dont think anyone will be able to pass through behind them as it is drawn now.

The suggestion of a bench seat under the window on the end might be worth exploring. What a cute little nook that could be! It would also open up your traffic area by the sliders.

Good luck! We are beginning our 3-phase remodel on Monday so I know right where you're coming from!

Sandy

The 24" deep wall cabinet next to the fridge will create an unusable black hole. You'll hit your head every time you try to reach a small appliance under it and it will feel crowded and "in your face". My suggestion would be to have a much shorter maybe 15" deep cabinet there and put a MW shelf under it for a free standing cheap MW. Then get a real vent for your range. You'll be much happier with the functionality for both situations. Creating the "snacking nook" next to the fridge with the MW there will keep folks out of your prep zone while you're trying to cook.

Small angled cabinets are expensive useless real estate. They're great for looks, but very short on functionality. Also, crowding cabinets right up to the window and door frame molding is a claustrophobic look and actually can make a kitchen seem smaller rather than utilizing every inch. Also, I have concerns about the pantry abutting the door frame. How much wall space do you actually have between the corner and that door frame? You'll also need a filler between the pantry and the wall if you have any hope of actually opening up and using any pull outs. Can that doorway move down a bit?

Well, due to a measuring error, the pocket door in the design was 5" wider than it should have been (I mis-read the contractor's notes as if the door itself were 35" not the door + frame) so the wall there now looks a bit less crowded in the design renders.

The angled cabinets are there for both appearance and functionality.

The base cabinet is angled so as to promote a better flow into the seating area and has a dedicated purpose of storage for my stand mixer and accessories. I have checked the dimensions and that cabinet should be perfect for storing them.

The upper cabinets I admit are angled more so as to aesthetically match the base cabinet, but their only purpose will be for coffee cup storage.

After checking the measurements on the the run of cabinets on the wall with the refrigerator there is 4" of extra space and even with dedicating one of those inches to being open giving room for the refrigerator that should leave me an inch to put a spacer on the side of the pantry next to the door and two inches for a spacer between the pantry and refrigerator.

Since the pantry will have two 14" wide double doors (set into the 30" pantry) that should leave room for them to open and allow the sliding drawer to work properly.

As to the 24" deep cabinets on that wall, they were originally designed that way due to the fact that the cabinets on either side of them (plus the refrigerator ) were so deep that a 33" run of 24" cabinets just looked odd set in there.

With the refrigerator moved to the middle, the aesthetic reason for the deeper cabinets is reduced, however the extra space that they would provide had already been allocated for storing canisters of dry goods and seldom used cookware and reducing those cabinets to 12" or 15" deep will mean that some of those items would have to be relocated to other parts of the house.

And since for the time being I plan to have a toaster oven set on the front edge of the counter below I really don't see an issue with having difficulty getting to it.

Later I plan on placing a microwave/convection combo oven in that spot and replacing the over the range microhood with a dedicated hood along with changing out the refrigerator for a counter depth unit however the budget for the remodel doesn't have the extra $$$ available for that right now and those modifications will have to wait another year or two.

So for now I am basically designing the kitchen so as to be able to adapt to those final alterations with minimal changes later on.

Here is what I would like the final result to be a year or two from now.

Basically the additional changes would add

CD Refrigerator: $3,000
Custom Appliance Garage: $700
New range hood: $700

Which is unfortunately $4,400 more than I can afford to put into this remodel and still have a few thousand available as a buffer against overruns. IF the kitchen comes in at the actual budget (unlikely but possible I suppose) then I would actually have the money free to make most of the "upgrade" changes fairly soon there after.

I am still tinkering with the island and seating area in the current plans and hopefully will have something worked out later today.

The fridge can always be changed out later and I'm not much on appliance garages, so your basic wants (a VERY nice kitchen) can be met without the added expenses?

Yes, by keeping the existing fridge, microhood, and dishwasher and keeping the new appliance purchases down to just the slide-in range we should be right at our budget (and still have about 3k in reserve for unexpected expenses).

Technically, I could modify the appliance garage plan later on to swapping out the 33"x24"x42" wall cabinet to a33"x24"x27" one and add a shelf for a built in microwave and leave the space below free to have a place for cookbooks.

It would basically cost the same ($700 to swap out the cabinets, add the shelf for the microwave and redo the trim) but I will lose the space I would have for storing canisters of dry goods and would need to find a new home for those.

Something like this:

If it were me, I'd definitely spend the extra and get a good hood in there right away...and it'd be fairly easy and not too costly, I think, to put an inexpensive countertop micro on a shelf in the cabinet like you show it last.

After re-re-re-working the kitchen design I think we now have what will be working from.

The changes are relatively minor but should make a large difference from my original plans.

I've decided to go with a stainless vent hood (as opposed to a microhood) and to put a shelf in on the wall cabinets for a standard microwave.

The tiles I originally wanted for the backsplash insert over the range were discontinued by Daltile so I have had to go with another series.

I will be moving the refrigerator to the middle of the wall to help improve the flow around the island.

The island surface area is being increased to 28"x54" (as opposed to 24"x48") as I think that is about as large as I am willing to make in in the space that I have to work with.

I am going to push the wall cabinets next to the refrigerator back to 15" depth to reclaim a bit of the counter space beneath them as workable.

Thank you for all of the suggestions so far as they have helped me to think outside of my personal box and to add most of these changes to improve this kitchen.

I am going out to the Design Center tomorrow to give them the design, sign the paperwork and give them the initial deposit so if there are any last minute suggestions you guys want to throw my way now would be the time to do it.

:)

I like the changes with the shallower wall cabinets next to the fridge, but I'm concerned with the increase in island width. You show 42" between the island and the cabinetry on the fridge wall, but even a counter depth fridge will project around 6" beyond that, reducing that clearance to absolute minimum reqired at 36". If you are putting in a full sized fridge, those are usually around 8"-12" deeper than standard depth cabinetry, leaving you with a very tight bottleneck around the fridge. Since that is a main pathway as well as a working kitchen aisle, the suggested clearance would be more like 48" to allow someone to pass behind you with a fridge door open. I know there's no way to get 48" and still have an island, but I'd go back to the original size of the island at the very least.

Well a 2" difference in the overall depth of the island would translate into only 1" greater clearance on the side with the fridge so I don't see that being that great of a difference.

Right now we are living with 30'5" of clearance between the refrigerator and the peninsula in the existing layout so just about anything will be an improvement.

Well we are now under contract.

Now we just have to see how things turn out over the next few weeks.

Congratulations! I think it will be great! You know I am in favor of the changes you made...especially the hood. And sounds like quite an improvement from your current layout, too.

Frankly, a cave with a firepit would be an improvement over the current kitchen.

I'll have to post some pictures of the current kitchen before it's demo'd so people can appreciate just how bad/ugly it really is.

The next big question is whether this will all come out anywhere close to the planned budget.

My current kitchen is very similar to your current one, even down to the measurements and doorways. We are debating between keeping the peninsula or using an island (my husband thinks that would be a mistake). So I'll be posting my layout on here shortly. However, luclin999, what cabinets are you putting in your corner? I see the drawer stack, but what's in the blind corner?

Helene

The blind corner is staying empty.

I really have never liked the "fold-out shelves" or"Lazy Susan" options so I just decided to leave it empty.

Frankly, if I had left a door for access into that space it would have interfered with the placement of either the 21" pot drawer on one side of that corner or the 18" trash pull-out on the other side.

Can I ask what software you used? I am in the market for something currently, but none of the free stuff on the internet looks even 1/2 as good as what you have!

Well, what I use wasn't free. It's the Home & Garden Deluxe package. It runs anywhere from $100-$150 at most software stores.

Well, the demo is completed and while we found a couple of unexpected issues behind the walls (two pipes that need to be moved) overall it went much better than I expected.

Now to see what happens as it gets put back together.

Sounds like the worst is past? For unexpected surprises, that's not too bad. :-) Now the exciting part!