Opening in load-bearing wall

9 years ago

Hi, I have an interior load-bearing wall splitting my house in two on one half of the main floor (two-story house). The wall is 13 feet long. There is already a doorway cut in it (~3 feet wide) at 4 feet from the exterior wall. I would like to cut a second opening in the remaining 4 feet where my refrigerator will be inserted (and surrounded by walls in the other room).

My question is what size of supporting beam should I use for the header (pine sandwich. 2x8? 2x10?) and if only one jack stud at each end is enough to support it. I know it is best to hire a engineer to do this calculation, and I will, but I'm just curious to get a better idea before he comes.

Upstairs is another supporting wall but which is offset by 2 feet from the one downstair that I am about to cut.

Thanks

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Comments (6)

lazy_gardens
9 years ago
"Upstairs is another supporting wall but which is offset by 2 feet from the one downstair that I am about to cut. "

Unless this upstairs wall has some verticals that run all the way to solid ground, it's relying heavily on the floor joists and whatever is holding them up to hold itself and whatever is above it up.

Like this:

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l

That can be a weaker structure compared to this:

l_
l

Because you have weight being transmitted through the joists to the lower wall, with a component of anglular force, not a straight downward pressure.

That's snakey to calculate ... very much physics and structural engineering. And materials.

So my better answer is ... the engineer will give you a better answer than anyone who doesn't have an engineering degree and as hands-on exam of the property to see what it's made of and how crumbling it is.
weedyacres
9 years ago
We've got a single load-bearing wall down the center of our little cottage, and it had 2 framed doorway openings through it in the kitchen. Neither one had headers or jack studs. We widened the opening to combine the 2, added a double 2x10 header with jack studs and called it good. No engineer was involved; we just figured we were beefing up what hadn't fallen down for 93 years.

The opposite (exterior) wall also had a framed door without header or jack studs. We shifted it over a foot and added the same header configuration.

And yeah, if that upstairs wall is load-bearing (of the roof trusses) and is 2' away from the 1st floor load-bearing wall, that's a problem.
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Greendesign, LL does not want any support columns. This makes the problem much more complicated. Every remodel we have done, we have had structural engineer sign off on the architects design. My architect insists on this. LL, structural stuff is expensive if you want to open up as much as possible. This is one of the big reasons why open modern houses cost significantly more than a typical traditional houses to build. Often, they have to use a lot of steel to be able to open up without columns in the middle of a large room. There is a lot of steel to make these big open rooms happen. LL The answer depends on the foundation and the footing that is currently in your house. You may or may not have the adequate foundation/footing that can take more loads than what you are already giving it. You need a knowledgible person to come and look. There is no way off the cuff internet answer is going to help you. The reality is even if you 'underbuilt' the house, no one will know for several years. This is how the cheap builders get away with doing 'sub-par' work. Then you will start to see a few sags here and there after a few years. Underbuilt house does not fall apart as soon as you move in. The day you move in, it is new and beautiful looking. Then, in a few years, the windows and doors will sag and won't shut. The dry wall will start to crack in places. The floor will slope and sag several inches. Then the builders are long gone and you have a worthless house. I have walked into so many additional that are 'worthless' because we look at a lot of open houses. All I see is an add-on/remodel that needs to be completely torn out started again if I am going to live there. I won't buy it and live there but some fool will. Then they will start look into the house and they will uncover all the subpar work that was done to it years ago. This is how the stories of the houses go. When I look at my next-door neighbor's I see several windows that are sagging because the floor joists (or beams or something) are not strong enough. I see windows sagging several inches at the center of the house relative to the corners of the house. This is a very old house. They will live with the sagging windows that probably do not open and shut. You can always live in a subpar house. It probably won't kill you. Many people do because they don't know any better.
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Wood expands when it's humid because it absorbs moisture. It contracts when it's dry, because it loses that moisture. Movement from wood is 100% normal and to be expected seasonally. It perhaps may be magnfified in your case because the AC wasn't running when the work was done so there was more humidity around for the wood to absorb. Contact the contractor for a call back, but you have to be careful about making things too tight during the dry season. If you do that, you can get buckling and cupping when the humidity naturally rises come late spring into summer. You can also talk with a HVAC pro about installing a whole house humidifier. Most wood floor manufacturers and cabinet manufacturers require the home's humidity to be between 25-55% year round for their warranty to remain in force. That means using the AC in the summer as well, and being sure that it's not too oversized to handle the humidity.
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ML- First of all, thank you for the link! I need a good software program and Chirstmas is just around the corner :) This is my dream plan! This is after opening up some walls and adding in the porch, replacing the main bath and adding the laundry, pantry, 1/2 bath and vestibules. I put two doors on the mudroom, since one side goes to the deck and one side goes to the barns, but you make a good point about a single door and more storage. If I had enough money, I'd love to put a glass/screened porch back there, instead of the mudroom and deck, with storage for tools (and extra coats in the winter) with access to a smaller deck or patio. That would be sweet! Also, I'm thinking about taking the door off the pantry and making it a big arch, instead. I saw that in a magazine the other day and it was so pretty. I have the perfect sink to go under the window. It's the original sink, from the old farmhouse. North is the top right corner...the house faces sountheast. That makes great light for the dining area, so I'd love to have room for a small lemon or orange tree (like my inspiration picture) and maybe a star jasmine. The stairs facing the front door, go up to the second floor. There's a plan for a pocket french door, back by the bathroom, that will access the basement stairs. Hopefully, the future garage is off to the left of the mudroom, with parking along the driveway, which is behind my squiggly curve, to the left of the plan. That's my shrub border! LOL The two chairs in the kitchen are by the little cobalt blue Jotul woodstove (love this little stove) that will be back up heat and boiling water in the teakettle, if the power goes out. I need my tea... :) While your description sounds great (my husband would love it) I wasn't planning to put a TV in the kitchen, but that might change. Maybe a little one on the corner, by the oven/microwave. That would be easy to see from those two chairs. The main TV is in the living room (across from the sofa) with another one downstairs in the rec room. Behind the kitchen is my huge pantry (6' x 10') the freezer, small cabinet for the hampers, washer and dryer are on the backside of the kitchen sink. Across from them is the mudroom/coats area with a big cabinet with a window next to it, then the half bath. The shower is part of the main bath (with the claw foot tub) but the wall I opened up for it is a load bearing (where the addition meets the house) and that's why it's a big shower, since there has to be a big post or something there. I probably forgot to draw it in, correctly. I forgot, I moved the closet to the wall to the living room (better sound barrier) and it made the bedroom 15' x 10'. More room around the bed for dressers and the french door out to the hot tub. All this drawing, is an attempt to get the plan very clear in my head, so I can visualize it and maybe that will help us get to the place where we can start the remodel. Here's hoping! :)
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Thanks for your response and suggestions! Contractor should have noticed it because the stack is in that exact same location in the basement. But, I think even with that knowledge we would've wanted to open up that wall as much as possible anyway, so I'm not dwelling on that. He only suggested that he could wall it off and make it a column but we didn't ask him about any design ideas yet for how to make the column fit in aesthetically. I like the first photo you posted. I'm going to try and make an easily uploadable floorplan (my friend suggested something called roomstyler 3D) and post for suggestions. Thanks again!
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worthy
9 years ago
what hadn't fallen down for 93 years.

My engineer tells me that things rarely fall down. They just sag, crack, creak and go askew.

What's appropriate in a simple small cottage is not universally applicable.
snoonyb
9 years ago
1st. Where and how is the wall you are opening supported?
weedyacres
9 years ago
My engineer tells me that things rarely fall down. They just sag, crack, creak and go askew.

What's appropriate in a simple small cottage is not universally applicable.

I absolutely agree. My post wasn't intended to suggest the OP do what we did, it was to give an example in advance of their appointment with an engineer. Sorry if it came across as prescriptive advice.
Bruce in Northern Virginia
9 years ago
We have a similar house design with a load bearing wall running right down the center from front to back. In our plan to open up the floor plan and widen the doorways the plan shows manufactured beams (laminated?) so that they don't get too tall and reduce the height of the doorways.

The floor joists for my 2nd floor run left to right and from each side they run over and sit on top of the existing load bearing wall. They plan to put up temporary supports, remove the existing wall down the middle of the house, and then replace it with the laminated beam.

We haven't had the plans go to the engineer yet, so the initial beam specs are just based on the projected span and the use of 4x4 posts to support the beam at each end and one point in the middle (total beam length is about 20 feet). The posts will be right on top of the steel I-beam that runs across the basement below.

Bruce

Opening in load-bearing wall

Comments (6)

lazy_gardens

weedyacres

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snoonyb

weedyacres

Bruce in Northern Virginia

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