Ok, here's me-and it's a minority view. You have five windows in this room, three by the eating area, one over the sink and one window over baking table. I wouldn't just move the window. I would get rid of it so you'd have flexibilty, wall space for uppers or possibly move the frig to that wall.

Could you recess the fridge and lose 3-4 inches of jutting out frig?

Traffic from the sink to the frig won't be a problem?

I'm not a layout person.

It seems like there's too much work area going on by the stove with the baking table right there. Have you considered swapping the frig and the range positions?

I've never even thought about losing the window altogether. Interesting. We're in New England so I kind of treasure all the natural light. Something to think about...definitely. We're not recessing the fridge, but building out the cabinets so it looks more built in. Traffic from fridge to sink has been no problem.

On layout #2, we'd lose the baking table. The range pictured there is much larger plus we're adding space on the corner side of the range. I think venting would be much easier where the range is pictured because it's an outside wall.

What direction does that window face? (What kind of light does it offer you?)

Will #2 really give you room for 2 in that corner? It looks like there may be room for 2 to stand, but is there enough workspace for 2 to work? What tasks are you performing when you're both fighting for that corner?

I don't understand why venting would be easier with one plan than the other, because they're on the same wall regardless?

What size and type of range do you really want/need? I'd probably let that carry some major weight in the layout decision.

rhome410,

I think pickle was responding to an earlier question about swapping the range and the refrigerator. That would move the range to an interior wall.

That window faces northwest. We're not super close to another house. I thought it would be nice to keep the window so I can see outside when I prep or cook, but am open to getting rid of it altogether.

We rarely do serious prep at the same time, but yesterday, Will was making quesadillas. I was grabbing handfuls of cheese to top black bean soup, and it was just really hard to reach around him. I just think in general, navigating that corner in general would be easier with a bit more elbow room.

Oh, the venting thing was addressed to redwhine who was suggesting flipping range and fridge. The venting is the same in layouts 1 and 2.

I really would like a 36" range. Need is another question. Of course I could make do with a 30", but there have been quite a few times when I've run out of room on a 30". The driving force behind layout #2 is that we could get a great deal on a 44" Aga Legacy which we love. Yes, the ovens are small, but fit our current bakeware. Then we thought, maybe moving the window would be the best move regardless of what range we get. But we're not sure...

Sorry. Long-winded answer to your questions!

DO NOT give up a window if you live in NE. I have a friend here (Midwest) who gave up a window in favor of more cabinets. She is just sick over! She said & I quote "what's the use of having more storage in the kitchen if its too dark & depressing to go in there in the winter!"

Regarding #1: Do you need a lower counter area or did you add that to accommodate the existing window? If the latter, you could install a counter high window in the same place. This would gain you normal height work space on either side of the range that might work for 2 cooks more easily. There will be a little additional cost - new window, some siding fixes - but that should be less than moving a window.

Have you thought about where you'd set hot dishes when you pull them out of the oven or MW? I don't see a convenient landing spot but since that's your current set-up, perhaps you've already adapted to this and it's not an issue for you. One thought, though, is to swap fridge and cabinet/counter. Normally I don't like sandwiching a counter between two talls (fridge and oven/MW column) but this would give you a handy landing area for both fridge and oven/MW use.

Since the topic of window moving is up for discussion ... How about moving the window to the eating area to mimic the paired windows on the other wall? That does up the costs so that might shoo that idea out the door but it does give you more lay-out flexibility.

I agree with rhome: the range choice should carry weight in the layout plans.

rhome - I think the OP is responding to redwhine's suggestion to swap fridge and range when she's talking about venting.

OK here we go!

IF the hutch is for dishes:
Kill the northeast window. Move the range there and the sink to where the range was (more or less).

Range has equal access to sink and ref. Dw closer to hutch.

If the hutch is for gear or used as a pantry, I like number 2 for looks - with or without the bigger range.

Functionality is pretty even between the two layouts.

Sorry, all, I missed the range and fridge swapping suggestion. :-)

If it was a S, SE, or even E facing window, I'd fight to keep it...but not as big on that with NW. If it faces mostly North it's not much light at all. But does it have a pleasant view?

I was hoping for a few examples of what goes on for you with that corner. I think that any time you're trying to grab an ingredient someone else is using, there could be crowding issues.

I think Lisa's suggestion to shorten the window is a good one to get more counter...and if you shorten it, you could also make it narrower to fit the range you want? Also, moving the window to the eating area is a good suggestion, too.

In case you are afraid of reducing the amount of counterspace by having the larger range, from my experience with our 48" rangetop, a large range doesn't necessarily give you less work area. Most of the time we keep a 2-burner sized griddle/grill pan on our stove (situated on one front and one back burner) and it serves as work or landing space.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm feeling a bit discombobulated at the moment (could just be because it's the tail end of a long day), and starting to wonder if both layout #1 and layout #2 are no good.

Should the window stay? Move to the corner as in layout #2? Shrink? Move to the breakfast area?

Between not being able to find a good GC and feeling totally unable to home in on a good design, I'm just...well...red wine, here I come!

Can you post layout #2 in the same overhead format like you did layout #1 above?

Pickle,

It'll all make sense when you have it nailed down. Why not start with some blank rectangles--no doors and windows at all, and make your best kitchen, then ease back the doors and windows as things settle.

Just about the feeling (no practicality, budget, or anything else), #1 looks squished and #2 feels like "ahhhh, that's better".

Practicality: you two fight for the corner. Sometimes.

Practicality: big budget bump to move windows.

Practicality: I'm not in my kitchen yet. My windows are bigger, actually. But moving them did cut out my favorite sunbeam. I would really hesitate to cut out a window altogether, though you do have three sides windows, and two sides is probably adequate. I'd want the window. Move it, cut it, but keep it.

Looks: Do you want that bigger range? I mean lust? Another budget buster? Or not? It looks pretty. If moving windows gains it for you and the whole thing is affordable, go fo it!! Get the dream range! And by shifting the windows, open up your corner too. But I'd like even 6" of counter on the far side of the range, rather than going right to the hutch. If you're an unfitted type that might not do it for you, however.

Thanks so much, plllog. Malhgold, here's the overhead layout for #2.

The fridge wall will be the same for #1 and #2 (the one I'd put up before was outdated). Also, the IKEA Varde piece was one we already owned and will keep for awhile. We will eventually get a hutch or some such for that spot, but only when we stumble on a good piece or cabinet maker.

I would have you and your DH stand in that corner area and see how much space each of you actually need for you to prep and him to be cleaning at the same time. Is there a reason you wouldn't shift the range further to the left(south) so you can have more prep space? What about putting in a larger window than you have planned in the rendering?

On second thought, I think you'd be better off without the varde unit and have something appropriate to storing pots and pans and prep gear. It's a little bit too large and crowds the table space. 24" pot drawers are very small, somewhat wasting space because you can't put enough stuff in there side by side.

The other thing I did was an attempt at doors open on the appliances. For the ref, this would be the classic reason to have a french door is to be indifferent to the direction from which people are opening the doors. The lighter gray is about the opening size of a french door and the darker gray a single door.

The reverse on the ref wall is in combination with adding a prep sink to end space/water access/drain contention. The only other stray thing is the table as drawn is a little big for the space. Can you see yourself with a 36" round instead - or with a banquette completely across the wall with two windows - or with a sofa-bench?
{{!gwi}}

OK, I'm no where as good as some of the other experts but here are my thoughts. To me you don't have enough counter space and storage. As your kids get older they will hopefully help out in the kitchen more. You now have some crowding issues with just your DH. I would do the following:
> swap the range and the sink and move the DW near the sink; the clean up area will be closer to the eating area and DR
> in the new sink location make the window shorter so that it's above the counter
> remove the window above the new range location; if you want a 5th window in the kitchen add it to the table area
> have a built in bench and rectangle table - it will take up less space and hold more kids. I grew up with one and it was great. My DH will build ours so we can share our pain and experience with you.
> remove the current Ikea varde and instead have upper and lower cabinets on that sink wall. This will give you more continous counter space and additional storage space.
> not sure what to do on the ref. wall

Wow! Thanks for the great feedback. I'm going to have to think things over while I prep short ribs. (yum)

Off the top of my head:
- great info on drawers. We'll make the drawers at least 30" by the range. What about 30" drawers on the fridge wall with 18" drawers or cabinet beside? Does that look weird and unbalanced?

- agree that Varde is too big. Will replace in later phase.

- Agree also table too big. LOVE the banquette idea. I think a window seat along the window wall with a narrow refectory-type table would be amazing. Pam, please share what you guys did. That is going to be in phase 2 if we ever survive phase 1.

- swap sink and range. LOVE the window over the sink. We have a great treetop view from that window so even if things suffer a bit, the sink window needs to stay.

- We have a French door fridge. Would you still swap fridge location around?

Ummm...okay. So I think layout #1 is dead, and we're now refining #2? Or no?? Off to slice and brown and chew over ideas. Oh, and feed the little critters lunch. Please keep 'em coming! (Ideas that is...not little critters)

#2 will be against the installation instructions for the stove--with a piece a bit taller than the edge of the stove next to it.

Yikes! My hubby says that he drew the layout with max Varde height and min Aga height (both are adjustable). BUT that is definitely something to double check. Thanks for catching that.

I'd still swap the ref. I'd like to be able to have a kiddo get more ice for their drink while I'm looking the in oven.

Might still be a bit dangerous (if they're running for ice pops), but not as bad as having them opposite each other :)

It's generally better to have fewer, bigger cabinets. Exceptions would be where you need more divisions - you want individual drawers for some reason - like storing potatoes and onions.