harder than I thought

Here is a link that might be useful: kitchen measurements

Can I ask, what are the dimensions of the room? Is there, or can there be, an alternate route to the garden so that the existing garden door can be closed off? If not, then any way to move the dog door to that garden door? How big is the pantry?

Remind us what else you hope to fit in the rest of the kitchen besides the 55" range.

If you want to post an inline picture it needs to be a a GIF or JPEG. Here's yours. Sorry about the blurry. I had to reduce the size (CTRL+ will magnify in a lot of browsers):

Previous thread...

Here is a link that might be useful: Thread: small kitchen, big range dreams

OK...there is so much hype here that I had to check out the Lacanche in detail for the first time...and I think I'm in love! I never thought I'd say that about any appliance, especially a range that's so "older" looking... So, do you think I can convince my DH to redo part of our kitchen to fit one in? (Of course, there's a slight problem...we don't have gas!)

Now I know why you're trying so hard to fit one!!!!

*sigh* French blue + Brushed Stainless....

So, let's see what we can do to fit one in your kitchen...even if it's only the 44", I think you should try to fit it in! So, do you have a layout that has the total dimensions and each segment? Not all segments are labeled in the currently posted layout.

Meanwhile, here are a couple of ideas...

The first one keeps the sink & DW where you state in the layout you want to keep it, but there are 96" (8') b/w the sink & range...that's pretty far to carry something b/w them...whether it's boiling pasta water or prepped food. An island would not fit unless it was only 12" deep...not really useful plus it would be a major barrier b/w the range & sink and somewhat of a barrier b/w the refrigerator & sink.

So, if you're willing to make additional changes, this is what you might be able to do... Yes, the aisle behind the peninsula is only 38", but it's against a window & wall, so no through traffic. B/c of the proximity to the refrigerator & pantry door, though, I only put in two seats. I suppose you could put in a third, but I would not plan on using it on a regular basis. The island is also a barrier b/w the sink and pantry, but in this case you can use it for landing space and then go around. Ditto for the refrigerator. (The island, though, is much less a barrier in the case of the refrigerator.)

I'm sure there are other layout options out there...but this will get you started.

BTW...have you noticed that the Lacanche site has a link to GardenWeb??? How cool is that? We're one of only two Forum links! (The other is "Lacanche Owners"....http://www.frenchranges.com/forum/)

Clearly I should have slept a little before posting..thanks all.The overall dimensions are 149" (12'5") -this is sink wall x 143.25 (11'11.25) (that last measurement accounts as best I can for the built out area on the original exterior wall.)Pantry is 8.5" x 5'8" but includes laundry, and that space will also be partially used by the recessed fridge. I currently store ALL our food in here, as well as crock pot, etc. and my contractor is planning to bump out a little more storage above stairs to the basement, and build a spot in here for the microwave.
ALSO... unless igloochic pipes in here to disagree, I think the 40" range will be just as good a fit for me, if it is a better fit for kitchen.
Because we're in a historic house and district I can't move/eliminate exterior doors or window. I can probably persuade my husband to move the dog door to the garden door. It is a small dog door (maybe 10"x 15") positioned where it is because under that window is the only non-brick exterior wall in the place. Currently it is actually in a cabinet-the dogs nudge the door open and go through, often sleep in the (carpeted) cabinet. Crazy arrangement but it works, and get a nice reaction guests when a mini schnauzer pops out from inside the cabinet. : )

I should say on top of the other challenges we're concerned about the view from living/dining area. While the kitchen is tiny the rest of the main floor wants to be rather dignified-10+ foot ceilings, elaborate woodwork, large stained glass and leaded glass windows.... There is a concert grand harp just to the left of the doorway to the kitchen. (I could have gotten a nice range or two instead of that, it occurs to me now). From the front parlor there is a direct view through that kitchen entry, and to the side of the cabinet where the door door lives. My initial thought was to put a workspace in that corner that looked like a small table, both to allow dog door access and to create an illusion of more space within the sightline.
What else do I want to fit in the kitchen? The CD fridge as pictured, and I would like to leave the sink area alone if possible. An expanse of counter (expanse to me would be 3 feet) would be a thrill. Minimal if any upper cabinets, even if it means I stash a few things in the basement. Really, I'm a simple girl...except for that lacanche!

How do you envision using a workspace that would be in that back corner over the dog door? Doesn't seem like a 'natural spot' for a butcher block or a baking space, but I'm keeping an open mind. Where under the window is the dog door situated...Nearer the back wall or the fridge, or centered?

I know you want an unfitted look...Have you thought about how you want that to manifest itself around the range?

Well first, I want to say "thank you!!!!" so much for lovingly restoring your home :) I know that's stupid for me to say to you because you obviously want to do it right, but I see so many who don't and it pains me. I'm an old house snob at heart (was even before I owned an old house LOL) so reading your words makes my heart sing :)

And it makes me long for pictures LOL Come on you owe us!!!

Buehl your husband would divorce you...you just built a fabulous kitchen silly girl :oP

Now here's my thoughts, Personally, I'd go with the larger stove as you have plenty of room for it in the layout that buehl drew (I would not do the peninsula layout because it's not appropriate for a historic home (but that's just the old house snob talking).

Go with a 12" cab on the end of the stove run. You dont have to go ginormous with the hood. We are only a few inches out on each side but we did bump out the capture space to 27" verses the normal 24 to 22. It works wonders. Then hang just the hood on that wall and make the stove area a feature or the main feature of your kitchen as I've done.

Now don't let buehl fall over (someone catch her she's gonna faint...) Umm I don't have isles that are over 36" wide in my kitchen with the lacanche. you actually do have room for an island table or a small island there behind you. And here's a crazy idea....how about installing a prep sink in the dead corner? You could have a removable counter top piece that covers it up normally but pulls out (they recess them into the counter) when you want to use the sink.

or if you go with the smaller range, put a prep sink in the 21" cabinet. You'd love it I guarantee. There is a really cool little prep sink that would work well in the dead corner though...it's a smaller sink that is used just for waste (it has a disposal in it). You tuck it in the back side of a counter and just scrape your scraps into the sink and it automatically turns on and washes them down the disposal. No visable faucet....lovely idea :) But you could also do a deck mounted faucet or pot filler by a similar set up in that dead corner just as easily.

I love that the dogs pop out the cabinet :) I was going to say that you should consider putting a cabinet in front of the dog door LOL instead of having them open a door, consider doing a doggie special door with a screen opening (very vintage) and do corner highlights with dog bones cut into the wood. That allows you to wrap that counter top around the corner without losing the function of the dog door :)

In our other house you can see into the kitchen from the living areas (where the lacanche is) so I made sure to make that a pretty space to view. It works...even in your home it would work because you have a stove that is gorgeous and appears to be appropriate to the home's age.

Either way you go, 44 or 55 you have plenty of room. I was really afraid of the 55 when we started discussing it because I thought the range would overwhelm the kitchen but really it does not. If you balance things out elsewhere it can flow perfectly...and think back to the days of our homes...the ranges were huge black cast iron monsters! They had to have clearance on each side because of heat, so really they ate up a lot of space!

Long view into the kitchen:
a little angled, teenager did not want to be in photo
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I'm hoping these might be helpful for visualizing.
From entry way to kitchen:
lovely space heater will be no longer, I have plan for TV above fridge. Current counter juts out into space that will be new door to pantry/laundry (allows for fridge to be recessed
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Current sink wall:
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My initial idea for sink wall (retains part of old cabintery, sink...)Sorry so faint. I'm tentative. Open shelving is for the beautiful and useful handmade pottery my daughters keep making me-I won't mind seeing that from the next room.
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Oops, forgot the dog door question. Here it is, in all its loveliness. (I am planning to replace with a fancy one the cats can't use, unless of course we move it completely!)
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Also, found this online. I think I could live with this.
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I have nothing to offer at the moment, but I love your ideas! It all looks great. The open shelves with your dds' pottery...Fantastic!

OK now I'm obsessing, but would it be the worst idea to put the 40 " lacanche on the 44.5 wide stretch between the door and window? This is where my current range lives, sticks out 32" into room which is more than lacanche. The door/window trims are 6" on either side, so I could notch into them a little if I needed for the hood. Would eliminate the trek to the sink. Would that make some sort of island /worktable easier? I could have a long run of something then against the longer wall, but then the range is right by the door with NO landing spot on the left. Would be seen right away entering kitchen, though.
Below is my current range wall for your consideration.
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Oh, dear...that would be very inadvisable, and probably not to code. Pot handle overhanging the stove side, someone comes through the door and covers themselves with boiling soup...or comes in and brushes their arm across a burner. I'd say what you have to the side of your current range would be the minimum.

I'm with Igloo in hoping you can still fit your dream range, and think it will fit in Buehl's plan...Have you genuinely changed your mind or just talked yourself out of it? Is it something you really hoped for or was it a momentary lust that you won't really miss?

Good points-OW!
No, dream range it is. The lust continues (the 40" is still pretty lust-worthy). My main push towards the 55" rather than the 40" was the oven size, though, and I think either would make me happy-just need the right layout!

The stove next to a door is probably a local thing & not necessarily against code. A major determining factor in stove placement in my old house was "where can I place a vent?". In a 14' x 17' footprint, I had 1 place where duct could be run effectively to the outside (3 storey house) so before you plan a layout be sure you're not going to run into a brick wall (no pun intended) that will later derail your plans. If your stove is located on an outside wall with no porch, you're probably okay, but if the vent duct has to fit between joists to go to the roof or side walls, it all depends on which way the joists run & if there are plumbing obstructions.

Yes, venting. It is a three story house but the good news is the kitchen is an afterthought off the back. One story only. My contractor looked at the roof and thought there would be no problem (roof is pitched toward door to garden, addition is only the kitchen and small laundry/pantry area.) He was looking specifically at the longer wall. Right now I have no ventilation, just a lame fan that vents into the attic space. Never turn it on. It's good I like the smell of carmelized onions.

That tight fix above in the corner is a 55 1/2 inch cluny 1400 with the sink to the left. You have WAY more room than that.

No I wouldn't put the 44 in that space where the sink is. I moved mine dow 1' so that it wouldn't be in a major entry location and don't regret that at all. I think with the door there you'd be crowding the space too much especially with a hood (an mine only overlap a few inches in on each side but still...it's too tight). Keep your range on the corner where you had it...lower the 21" cab to a 12" and use the side counters to their fullest...it's plenty of space really.

Our hood is a vent a hood custom made (we bought an insert and had the box replicated but made 27" deeper and 58" wide). Vent a hood was all for this and helped our stainless manufacturer do it. It added 1300 to the cost of the kitchen and was worth every penny.

With the dead corner you can easily add a pot filler and draining sink (prep sink) with no issues at all and have a beautiful and functional kitchen.

Warning - the aisles are tiny. Thought shalt have one and only one person at the range.

The islandette is something like a small counter height table or something from mr. boos. You can fit a larger one and "attach it" to the wall - peninsula.

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Thanks again, everyone. OK, range stays on long wall. 40? 55? I'll figure that out. (Good friend of mine is insisting on the larger, she knows my family's cooking habits-right now there are 3 teenagers in the kitchen making cookies. )
Love the possible elevation for north wall(thanks bmorepanic),but for now I really want to leave the cabinetry there and sink alone. It did get me thinking about taking out one more existing cabinet and then having a 58" run against that wall. I would still want it on legs so view from house looks more spacious. I could put a small boos on adjacent wall to camouflage dog door. (see below)

So 2 of my daughters and their friend and I have been pacing across from the imaginary lacanche to the sink. I understand it breaks the rules to have it that far away, and maybe we have long legs, but seems like a good distance to us. It's currently what we have from sink to fridge. So if I skip the prep sink could I put a mixer pull out in that bad corner?
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Last thing: I'm imagining area to left (as you face range-this is the area by door) as cooking/baking prep area. Any thoughts re: hoosier cabinet vs 36" base with appropriate surface?

Here is a link that might be useful:

I'm not entirely following, but I like the 55" range without the corner L better. But is there enough room in that corner between the two green things?

Can you post the plan bigger?

Re steps to the sink, sometimes you have to break rules in a difficult area and yours does qualify. You can always put a bottle of water by the range and use a strainer basket or similar to pull things out of boiling water, rather than draining into the sink. I do think you need some kind of intermediate landing space, however, even if it's a small butcherblock or cart.

I love the Hoosier cabinet! If not an antique, you can have something of the sort made, perhaps with different styling to go with the rest of your new kitchen.

I don't think you can put the hoosier there with the 55. It looks like you'd block access to the larger surface by the range. AND the oven doors, hoosier doors and the pullout thingy may not all be able to occupy the same physical space in front of the range.

So sorry if this picture is gigantic, went as small as I could( I think) but it still looks huge on my preview screen.
Try imagining with a 40" cluny instead... does that look like it would work better?
Maybe island wise I should get a bigger boos, tuck that in that corner by the sink and roll it out when I need it?Maybe not the best view from the front rooms, though. I suppose it could sit where I've got the hoosier and come out to play as needed? Oh help, ye of much kitchen wisdom!
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I'm answering my own question. I think I like this. Practicality of 36" Boos on casters? Shown here with a (40") cluny. Thoughts? Problems?
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I don't think it makes sense to have the mixer by the range. Mixers get messy, the counters they're on get messy, and the water to clean that up is too far away. I think the mixer cabinet would be better as drawers to hold the pots and pans to feed that Lacanche.

I'd put the mixer cabinet over by the sink area. It's the type of surface you want a sink at.

You're driving me nut...I almost got cheif architecht set up to use today LOL

I like the long counter on the side of the range myself but that's because we'd use it cooking. I'd do that before I'd go with the hosier there since you don't have room for the runs on the sides.

I'm driving myself nuts, too! My family just nods at me, eyes glazed over.
Never occurred to me to have the mixer near the sink, since when it's out now it's by the range. It would fit in the cabinet just to the left of the sink, so I could use it there (the drag of that is that the counter there will most likely still be tile for some time. Suppose I could set it on the hoosier surface -that would still be near the sink.)
Igloo-would the Boos not be functional as counter? I like one that's 36"x24", with a 12" extension. I'm inclined to trust your judgement on this. I was thinking I could pull it out from the wall and use it as my island when needed.
John-the pots make tons more sense there. I was wanting a small pot rack close to the wall to the left of the range hood (for maybe 3 skillets). Would I regret open shelving in (base cabinet) to left of range for pots (a la the Julia Child kitchen)? I wouldn't have to deal with clearance for a cabinet door in that smaller space then. But from the standpoint of funkiness and clutter?
What else am I not considering?

I don't usually chime in on these things since my sense of space is not great, but I would have to agree with igloo and put in as much prep space as possible near the range. Prepping is 80% of cooking and your lovely stove won't be as functional or enjoyable without sufficient, convenient prep space. I say this as one who has an old home (1880) and whose previous kitchen had a minute amount of counter space. I thought having a nice big rangetop (6 burner) would be the best thing about my new kitchen (and it IS nice) but having much more prep space has been a real difference maker for me (and I cook just about every meal from scratch every day). Just my .02

''John-the pots make tons more sense there. I was wanting a small pot rack close to the wall to the left of the range hood (for maybe 3 skillets). Would I regret open shelving in (base cabinet) to left of range for pots (a la the Julia Child kitchen)? I wouldn't have to deal with clearance for a cabinet door in that smaller space then. But from the standpoint of funkiness and clutter?''

I think open shelves in the base cabinet to the left of the Lacanche would be hard to get to, because you'd be squatting in a small space (between that cab and the Hoosier-thingy, whatever that is). Drawers would probably be easier to work with, I think. Also you might want a shallow drawer in that base cab for utensils, and maybe even a sturdy pull-out board for more workspace.

Because of the tight quarters, I think storing stuff up high would also be useful. Pot racks flanking the Lacanche's vent hood, for instance. You will, naturally, buy a whole set of thick French copper saucepans to feed the Lacanche, and those would look very nice, hanging.

I still think a small prep sink near the range would be helpful, to save you from having to lug an 11-quart copper stockpot full of boiling liquid to the main sink. What do you think about fitting such a sink in the narrow base cab that will be to the right of the range? Then maybe drawers under the sink, for oils, spices, and other stuff that you would want close at hand when cooking.

I was thinking about your layout, and realized that because you have a sizeable pantry room, the limited storage in the kitchen itself might be workable. Over on the sink wall, seems you could put glassware and dishware in the shallow tall cabinet where they'd be close to the dishwasher (make sure your dishes are not too large), flatware and prep supplies and mixer in and on the 58'' cabinet to the left of the sink. Don't forget the microwave needs a home too.

You might also plan on trying a small (2' x 3', say) worktable in the center of the kitchen. If the clearances work, great. If not, it becomes a potting bench or something.

One other thing - you were talking about about the view into the kitchen from the rest of the house - which suggests a sink/window that is eye-catching and beautiful? Maybe plan on later installing a large apron-front or freestanding sink - something visually striking? (Shame the window is there, or you could place the Lacanche on the sink wall, splendidly on display.)

John- you're reading my mind. Actually my plates already live in the tall cabinet by the dishwasher-works great. And mixer will work in the cabinet already to the left of sink. I may move it there tonight! (here I was thinking I wanted it near the range!) I was planning open shelves above dishwasher for glasses and wine glasses. I don't have a huge collection so this works. The microwave will be moving to the pantry, tucked right by the side of the fridge and not visible (it has always bugged me). Right now all food lives in the pantry, (exception baking supplies and spices) and that works for us. The sink wall, yes, eventually beautiful...but what we have will work OK for now. (I could pretend I'm being "green" here...really just would rather have killer range, eventually perfect sink wall). My inspiration will be cabinetry from Christopher Peter's website. Check link if you haven't seen.

(Still pondering prep sink. I know no one with a prep sink, so it is an alien concept to me. I get it would be handy, but I keep walking those 3 steps and thinking it may be overkill.)

So I've probably been vague, but can anyone else imagine a mobile worktable tucked in the space by the door (orangish block in diagram above) working? I could get a Boos, or have something made. Could push towards center of room if wanted an island or wanted to dig around in drawers or open storage or whatever to left of cluny , could use in place as counter...

Not married to the Hoosier (see link above) if something else works better. With the pull out workspace and vintage feel I thought it might be a practical choice with the whole unfitted thing.
Don't forget, one advantage to my funky plan would be never having to work out again, between squatting to access storage and weight lifting water across the room!

Here is a link that might be useful: christopher peters kitchens

You know, I though of something else. Probably won't work, but I wanted to toss it out there.

You have stairs down to the scary basement. The stairwell appear to pass next to the pantry. Do you have room to make a landing inside the current basement door, from which you either turn right and enter the pantry, or go straight and descend into the basement? This would allow you to eliminate the pantry door that takes up 30'' of kitchen wall. Possibly also to place the refrigerator inside the pantry, freeing up another 35'' of kitchen wall. You could have a small 15'' undercounter refrigerator in the kitchen, to still have milk, butter, etc conveniently at hand.

jcoxmd, thanks for the Christopher Peters link!! I'm literally drooling and jotting down ideas like crazy. Love that piping that he uses as a utensil/pot rack. I wonder where I can find something like that. I'm going to bookmark that site and refer to it often.

Can't move the stair entrance..looked at that with the contractor. I like the way your mind works, though! It's OK, because that wall is so close to the walkway into room.
Pickle-when you figure out that pot rack thing let me know. I love that too. Wonder if it can be rigged with...pipe?

Ok I have to go to that link LOL Sounds wonderful :) But first...do the boos. They're great and add to that unfitted kitchen idea quite well. I'm thinking of doing one of those as well when we do our kitchen. We have kind of an odd area in our kitchen and that boos counter is heaven when you might need to move it on occasion :)

I'm experiencing the pain of your design vicariously as mine will be as challenging...too many doors and odd angles! But like you we'll make it work. I'd seriously consider an additional boos in your kitchen as a mobile island behind the stove area....just to throw that out and you could store some of your larger pots on it if you have a lower shelf or add hooks to the bottom (I saw that once...loved it but my cat would sleep in them LOL).

Darling...if you've not had a prep sink don't knock them. In our small kitchen in alaska I wondered why we were putting in both a prep sink and a pot filler...sheesh I can't tell you how nice that makes cooking! DH and I both cook (he's the main cook) and you'll often find me at the prep sink (or a guest) working on vegi prep or salads without being in his way. It makes a one cook kitchen into a two cook kitchen. You can have a baker working over there by the main sink and then a cook working at the stove with no need to bump into each other because you've got what you need in the stove area.

You will adore it....you'll never want to go back to a one sink kitchen! And if you're plumbing for that put in a high faucet for it so it can serve as a pot filler as well. You will find cooking so much easier :)

Sorry, that I'm not much help when it comes to layouts but it looks like you have great team helping you out here. I did click on the Christopher Peters kitchens look though and all I can say is WOW! and OMG! LOL! Some of those kitchens are to die for. Especially to an Aga lover, this guy is a period kitchen designer's dream! :-) I really really love the way he has taken the unfitted kitchen and given it a contemporary and sophisticated touch while maintaining a very classic, warm and cozy look in the process. Really inspirational stuff!