Persoanlly, I'd put the laundry door back where it was, moving the range to the sink side - making a big,open "U" shape on the outside wall. Maybe move the door a few inches from its current position, maybe not. Maybe use the budget saved to put in a larger kitchen window instead.

A couple of the reasons I'd prefer it that way-- no carrying full pots or hot pots across the room through a main walkway, better counterspace (more below), get an opportunity to create a nice snack space between the ref and ovens, some ability to have one person cooking while another is using the oven.

Part of the counterspace thing I'll readily admit is personal taste and some it practical. When you have a tall thing near a corner like that, the tall thing prevents you from being able to fully utilize the counters. All them elbows gotta go somewhere.

A lot of ovens are deeper than you've drawn - they stick out the front by a couple of inches. As a right hander - I would never use it because my elbows and the ovens would be constantly fighting.

Another small issue comes when taking stuff out of the oven - pretty much the landing space is to the left of the cooktop. Why? Because the open oven door will prevent you from reaching the space in the corner. Again, if you're a righty, that space can be covered with prep stuff.

Everything is a trade-off. You figure out what's important to you.

Thanks...great ideas to consider!

That is my main problem with moving the door - usuability of the space and how far it is across the floor to reach the sink. However, the one thing that I keep coming back to is moving the door will allow so much more light in and make the laundry room actually usable. Right now I don't use the space in there for anything but dumping crud and laundry duties - plus we could better utilize the door to outside in the laundry for doggie access and kids can use it to get in/out instead of using the sliding door in the eating area. I could put hooks and a bench and have a place for kids jackets and stuff.

Right now I detest the current island. It is 72 inches long by 26 inches wide and it is in the way. I am constantly running circles in the kitchen and it drives me nuts.

If I start from scratch I can put things anywhere...but where? I like the look of a corner cooktop, but like you mentioned don't want to be walking across the whole kitchen with hot stuff. Can I fit a smaller length island? Angle it? Stick with the breakfast bar?

I am stealing space from the large dining room to create a very large walk in pantry. Wanted a butlers pantry, but the walkin gives me more storage.

{{!gwi}}

Another idea, thoughts? I'm open to moving things around. Just trying to see what I can do with the laundry room door closer to the outside wall.

Thoughts on a free layout design software option?

Any thoughts? Help!

Cosmo: some of the easiest and free! planning software is from Lowes kitchen planner (linked below) and also Ikea. The Ikea takes a bit more to get up and running, but is reasonable once you learn the tweaks. The one drawback for both is that you can only use their size of cabinets. In Ikea, you can choose to put in your size of appliances (I think -- it's been awhile). Unless they've changed the newer version, Ikea works better on Windows XP than Vista, and doesn't work at all on Macs.

For everyday, I just prefer using graph paper, sketching out the walls, making a "master" of that, and sketch various ideas from that. I usually have a couple of those graphs with me while I wait where ever I am -- doodling time tends to be creative kitchen time for me.

Here is a link that might be useful: Kitchen planner from Lowes

Love the Lowes Designer and the virtual visualizer!
Another view...I really need some help...good/bad...swap this with that...etc.

{{!gwi}}

Another option.
sorry having fun with the lowes planning. And hoping for some input. I realize there is a ton of space between each appliance but I don't know how to actually use the space.

Anyone have some help they might be willing to offer? Which layout do you like best...are there subtle changes you might make? Big changes? Am I doing something wrong?
Thank...any help would be greatly appreciated. Want to finish the kitchen before Easter!

Cosmocat, it is possible to finish by Easter, in theory, but in practice it would be pushing it to redesign a space, acquire all the finishes, do structural alterations, and install a whole new kitchen, in that time. Even if you were planned, permitted and breaking ground it might be tight. Planning takes longer than remodelling (unless you're unlucky), and it's important to get it right rather than wasting your time and money.

Your plans aren't showing on my screen. I'll check later on my big computer, and see if I get any ideas, though I'm better at other things. Maybe now that it's the weekend your thread will get more traffic. I'm glad you've kept asking. Sometimes threads fall through the cracks, and I hate to see that happen.

Meantime, do please reevaluate the scope of your project and your timeline. Are you having company for Easter? If so, might it not be better to cope with the old kitchen than chance having yours unfinished? Is there something else (release time from work, for example) that's pushing your calendar? Do you have a contractor already? Recommendations? Are you doing it yourselves?

Cosmocat, I'm surprised you haven't had more responses. One reason may be that there aren't enough measurements included on your drawing, for instance, the length of each wall, the width of the windows and the walls on either side of them, the width of the doorways, stuff like that.

Looking at your last drawing, you still have the problem of having to pass by what will become your main doorway when travelling from the sink to the stove. Have you tried putting the sink where the cooktop is, the cooktop in the middle of the other leg of the L, shift the ovens down so they are next to the pantry and put the refrigerator on the wall where you have your sink drawn? This gives you prep space between the sink and range without having to step across aisles and you keep the work space protected from people travelling in and out and through the kitchen. It also creates a nice snack/beverage area next to the fridge that is clear of the work space or if you bake, that could become a baking center of sorts. Sorry I can't draw this but I have a new computer and haven't loaded any design software yet.

I would consider what bmore suggested about not moving the laundry room door. Starting at the dining area, have you considered going fridge(would be convenient to dining and sliders outside), sink, and then turning the corner you could put the cooktop on the shorter side. On the pantry wall you could then start with pantry cab, ovens, and upper/lower cabinets.

Maybe if as Cheri suggested you could do a floorplan on graph paper with measurements so it would be easier for people to see what you are currently working with and make suggestions from there.

THANKS! I'm open to anything...placement of anything anywhere. However, I like the look of a cooktop/range focal point with a lovely backsplash and decorative hood, that I want to see looking at the kitchen. I love the idea of moving the laundry room door to bring in more natural light. We live in CO and get tons of sunlight, but the kitchen is very dark with an overhang roof over the deck, so no direct sunlight. I love the idea of adding the LARGE pantry for storage of everything from TP to holiday decoration to soup cans. Nothing is set in stone. I'm open to ideas. I understand the sink issue and walking all the way across the floor for stuff..but it doesn't look so bad in a 3D rendering. But I've never done this before. I am getting suggestions from a friend who is a KD, and it was her idea to move the laundry room door.

Here is a better pic with measurements - it shows the laundry room door already moved. Plus I didn't draw the W/D to scale and it actually butts up against the closet, and there is a sink under the window.
Thanks so very much all of you!

And why Easter...so I can host the family meal w/25 relatives. We have the biggest yard for all the kids to hunt for eggs. We usually host, but again not set in stone. I realize we will hit bumps along the way.

And we have 3 kids, ages 5, 7 and 10 and they like to help cook, bake cookies, etc. It is usually only one adult at a time cooking. I don't love to cook, but I don't like to spend money going out to eat either.

Cheers!

Leaving the laundry room door where it is does give you more options for the best layout, however, it's clear that your reasons for wanting to move it are a high priority. Moving it shouldn't make it impossible to get a good layout but it may take some time and many reiterations to get most of you want and still have a well functioning kitchen. Your Easter deadline may not be realistic and if you rush this part of the process you could end up being disappointed with your new kitchen.

Have you taken the sweeby test? It's a good exercise in prioritizing what you need and want and is very helpful in determining where the best places to make compromises are.

I'm not a KD, but I think you'll be really, really unhappy with the kitchen you'll have if you go with the layout above. It's simply not a good idea to have the major path through the kitchen intersect the path from the sink to the cooktop.

what if, on the Laundry Room wall: I put a range (no need for ovens then) in the corner, with the sink just to the left and to the right the fridge in the little corner? Maybe leave a prep sink in the current sink location with a tall pantry in the doorway corner? Lots of counter space.

Or make the entry from the laundry room, like a hallway, minimal cabinets along the window wall and an angled island?

Make sense? I spent hours today playing with the layout and it is driving me nuts. I've been 'thinking' about this for 3 years. After a very bad experience with a contractor for a master bath redo I've been hesitant to do any more remodeling....But DH says it time to JUST DO IT. But I need to do it right! With what I want and no what-ifs, which I'm notorious for with any project!

Consider blowing out the wall between laundry and kitchen to get the light and the traffic flow.

Don't think I'd go for having the laundry room and all the dirty clothes piles as part of my kitchen ;-)

So here goes, Nix the move the laundry room door, keep the floorplan the same and see the layout below, plus a pic into the family room to give you an idea of the view from the kitchen. Yes the family room is the next remodel project on the agenda (when we win the lotto!).

Designing a kitchen should not be like fitting pieces into a jigsaw puzzle which is what you are trying to do. You will end up with a kitchen that looks OK but that is horrible to work in. I mean this kindly.

I spent over a year planning my kitchen and I love how it turned out. Everyone thought I was over thinking it, including DH, but you know what, I heard him giving some advice to friends planning a remodel and it made my LOL. He was basically telling them to do what I did.

Start off by making a list of your favorite meals.

Then think in terms of ZONES.

Food comes into the house (Landing zone)
Food gets put away
food gets prepped (Prep Zone)
Food gets cooked (Cooking Zone and Baking Zone)
Food goes to the table (Eating zone which may or may not be in the kitchen)
Leftovers get put away, pots and dishes get cleaned up (Cleanup Zone)

Moving from zone to zone should be like a well choreographed dance, with minimal movement and easy access to what you need to use in that zone.

Where will the DW be. It, like the fridge, should be easily accessible to the eating area.

Those uppers over the peninsula? They are going to be REALLY hard to get into, especially if you need an overhang. If you are planning them for everyday storage, rethink it. If there is no overhang, the outside ones may be a good place to put stuff that goes to the eating area ONLY, like cereal, crackers, snacks etc.

Once you think your floorplan works get some boxes and mock it up in the garage or basement and walk through cooking and baking some favorites in it. You'll be surprised at how that shows up the shortcomings as well as the great things.

Sorry...this is wordy. I do appreciate all the help. Still floundering I guessÂ.
I've actually been thinking and rethinking this kitchen remodel for 3 years, maybe I just havenÂt been paying attention to the real details like zones and functionality. Originally (3 years ago) I had 5-6 different quotes and almost all were for the very last layout I posted or similar. My mom then had a heart attack and a 3-week hospital stay, so my mind wasn't into it and some of the budget got depleted with helping with medical expenses and travel. So we redid a master bath and haven't gotten to the kitchen yet.

I guess like loves2cook4six I may be puzzle fitting...but I thought I was following a good plan and utilizing prep/cook/clean zones. I was figuring the peninsula as a landing zone, food into the pantry and into the fridge, minimal steps to take. I have counter space between the fridge and oven. Cooking zone at the cooktop area. Cleanup along the sink. Prep zone on the peninsula. I could put the DW on the peninsula. I can easily rethink the cabinets above the peninsula. Super large pantry for storage of anything and everything that doesnÂt fit in the kitchen. Mixer, break maker, crock pot, etc.

Part of the problem is the kitchen has two funky wall juts (one on the deck side ~22.5 inches out and one on the garage side again ~28.5 inches) that doesn't make it quite square and dictates the space. The space along the garage includes a load bearing wall so there isn't much I can do to push a wall into the garage or make it a good idea to place the cooktop on that wall.

I do not want a cooktop on the peninsula. That isn't a look I'm partial too. Just for looks I like the cooktop on the wall where it is to make it a focal point, view from the FR. I don't want to be looking at a fridge.

I don't seem to have quite enough space to put in an island where I could put a sink and DW. Or utilize as a prep area. I have an island now with a cooktop and I hate it. Mainly because it is 2x7 and in the way. I seem to run around it all day long. So more than anything I know what I donÂt want.

The exterior wall is brick, so it really isn't easy to move the window over the sink. And I think it is the sink and window that are driving the placement of the other items.

In a perfect world, I blow out the wall at the deck and push it out 8-10 feet. This however, would entail building out the basement and the bathroom/bedroom above. Granted the bathroom above needs work and the bedroom above is the smallest and would benefit the size increase, but blowing that out would take up my entire kitchen budget plus some:)

Cosmo, I never had a sink at the window in a single place I've lived and I've moved around 8 times. Try not to let that be a driving force. We spend very little time at the sink these days anyway.

I don't think you should give up on moving the laundry room door. It would be great to have the back door and kitchen entrance line up rather than have to navigate through the laundry. How married are you the your huge pantry? What if it were two feet smaller (5 x 12))? You could then flip the L you have above. I wish I had my design software on my new computer or at least software to edit your drawing but I have nothing on this new computer. I'll try to do post something later to show you what I mean.

Thanks cheri127!
The pantry size of 14 is the whole length of the Dining Room so that there isn't a funky corner. Makes for a huge pantry...but I could put alot of other things in there.

How about this:

Entails changing a ton things. But again, I don't think I'm addressing the zones......they all seem to overlap in this layout.

Your aisles aren't wide enough in the above layout.Even if you turn the island around it's still tight and you're right back where you started from. I think you can move the laundry room door and have a large panty but 2 ft smaller. Oh, I wish I had my old software to show you what I mean. My kids are in bed so I can't even use their scanner if I hand draw this. If you look at your layout from earlier today, move the refrigerator down so that it's next to the pantry door. This makes that leg of the L at least 2 ft longer (depending on your pantry door size). The pantry wall would then be behind the refrigerator and the resulting pantry would be 5 x 12 instead of 5 x 14. Would this be big enough? Are you sure a 14 x 11 ft dining room isn't too small? Anyway, now you can flip your layout and move the laundry room door. Your L will be 11.5 x 12 which isn't bad especially since you have the wall with the window to work with and a huge storage area. I'm not sure if I'm being clear but try drawing it and maybe start a new thread with the new layout. Then, hopefully, you'll get more feedback from the layout experts here.

Thanks again cheri127! I think I know what you mean...but there is a wall right next to the fridge. It is easier to see on the post drawing dated Sat, Jan 9, 10 at 12:52 the handwritten number 28.5 is the size of that little jog in the wall. I don't know if I can move it or not but the wall with the dining room door is a load bearing wall, that I can place another door to make the pantry into but I don't know how much I can move it around.

Am I allowed to start a new post for more or less the same subject?? I'm frustrated that half of these posts are from me changing things around. And I'm running in circles trying to come up with different plans that would actually work.

lol! i keep getting turned around. one LO has the laundry room on the S end (my view on screen). next one has the laundry on the N end... it's twisting me around. and believe me, my brain does not need help there! lol!

I do think the door to laundry should stay as is or close. otherwise, people will be traipsing thru your cooking/cleaning area thru out the day - since it's access to outside and garage. that's too much traffic past the cooking area anyway.

i like the U shaped with range on S wall about where you want to put the laundry room door.
then others can make a straight line in / out to laundry area to go outside get laundry etc. putting the fridge, MW and snacks on that W wall would keep it right in line for others to access w/o getting in the cook's way.

don't get frustrated - it's a do and redo process! i do like the LO you posted at 14:19.

flipping the L around might work. how about a U on the W wall (closer to DR wall). Then people could walk in/out of laundry room to patio door area along the window wall.

Then maybe the sink on the back wall (adjoining laundry wall - where plumbing is), the range and fridge on the wall where you have had the fridge/mw. and is it then possible to have a peninsula out of that area?

maybe the fridge on the laundry common wall at the end of a run by the new laundry room door? would there be room on the other wall for both sink and range? that way the fridge is able to be accessed by others w/o getting into your cooking space.

try out a few LO's that way and post here.

i think it best to stay on same thread - or at least link to this one. don't worry about that you've posted so much with new LO's. it helps others to see where you have been and are coming from. otherwise, they'll want to flip you back over to the window wall... lol!

could you have the door to the pantry just inside the DR?

did you post how many kids on the other thread? how many? and measurements of the walls? what size of range? 36"?
width of fridge? sink?

If rerouting traffic from the side door to the back door so that the laundry room acts as a mudroom as well is a priority, you may still be able to do it and get a well functioning kitchen. Here's a rough idea.

I also drew this with the refrigerator between the window and the oven and I think if works well except that it's so far from the sink to the fridge. We have a long distance like that at our beach house and I find it annoying (and it's not my everyday kitchen).

While it's good to see the the progression of layouts on one thread, I still think that starting a new one with a new detailed layout would be beneficial especially in generating new interest and lessening confusion. It would be best if you included a list of what you were most trying to achieve in your new space and what you want to avoid so that people don't have to ask the same questions again. I hope you can get more responses from the layout experts here. They are much better than I am at this.