Sigmund Freud , in modern times your Q "'What does a woman want?' might be answered. Get off the drugs, quit espousing your drug fueled opinions, get a job, support your family. As you can tell, I'm not a fan of Freud. Here is a link that might be useful: addiction

Here is a portion of the earlier discussion. D. ------- Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder and Geneticist, Dies Posted by Pandorae (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 20:29 Very interesting obituary in the New York Times today: Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder and Geneticist, Dies http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/11/national/11shifriss.html His "one big, huge bonanza"... "for gardening, was as innovative as the V-8 engine or the microchip." You probably will have to register to see the article but it is free and I think a worthwhile read. Note to Earl: Be sure to read to the very end. Pandorae Here is a link that might be useful: Oved Shfriss, plant breeder and geneticist, dies -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Follow-Up Postings: RE: Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder and Geneticist, Dies Posted by: Earl SW Ohio 5-6 (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 21:25 Pandorae, Its not an easy trip to get to where you want me to go. Recently, the new york times is not a very accurate newspaper, any reason this story is to be believed to be true, or should we just hope itÂs true? The BIG media in this country has an agenda, as in kick in GWÂs teeth. Sorry, but the mention of that rag riles me up. Hopefully, soon, it will go the way of the Ned Buntline dime novel. Sorry, but it just came out. :-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder and Geneticist, Dies Posted by: Pandorae (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 21:37 Earl, Sorry. Didn't mean to upset you or anyone else. I put the "Note to Earl" in because of the great plug for Black Krim at the end. On second thought you do not want to register to see this article :)) Not trying to drum up business for the website. Honest. Pandorae -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Forgiveness? Posted by: Earl SW Ohio 5-6 (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 21:53 Pandorae No problem. Sorry I got emotional there. I try to stick to tomatoes, but the route to the story kinda sent me off. :-) I apoligize for my un-forum like behavior. Please forgive me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder and Geneticist, Dies Posted by: greggf z4 NY (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 22:57 Oh boy oh boy oh boy, is this article going to cause excitement around here! I got to it via Google by searching on Oved's name. The article from the Times is already posted elsewhere, in the clear, without need to register anywhere. In the article, George Ball of Burpee says that non-hybrid tomatoes are very very hard to grow. That's controversy Number One. Number two is, George Ball hints that one or even both parents of Big Boy hybrid, the tomato that Oved is famous for, are UKRAINIAN in source. Carolyn has said here that Oved told her that Big Boy is a cross between the midwestern U.S. heirloom Teddy Jones and another tomato. Is that other tomato Ukrainian? Did Teddy originally come from the Ukraine? Is George pulling our tails? Is Earl's New York Times writing yet more fiction? Is George suggesting that Black Krim is one of the parents? Has he inadvertently told us that Big Boy = Black Krim + Teddy Jones? And, if so, how on earth would a Black Krim/Teddy Jones cross produce Big Boy? And does it even matter, since we have no access to Teddy Jones? What other purplish Ukrainian tomatoes are there that George could be talking about? And, mainly, how do we like what he says about heirlooms and heirloom growing? Is it really all that much easier for the uninitiated to grow Big Boy than it is Large Pink Bulgarian? =gregg= -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder and Geneticist, Dies Posted by: PNW_D 8BC (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 22:58 For those that don't know (from www.damseeds.com) "A new development in the history of the tomato occurred in 1949 when W. Atlee Burpee introduced the first F1 Hybrid tomato, 'Big Boy.' Bred by Dr. Oved Shifriss 'Big Boy' offered gardeners earliness in a large, smooth red tomato. It was an instant success for both Dr. Shifriss and W. Atlee Burpee." D. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder and Geneticist, Dies Posted by: greggf z4 NY (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 23:08 I should mention that George Ball mentions Black Krim in the same breath as Big Boy. What a fun mystery. =gregg= -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder and Geneticist, Dies Posted by: Carolyn137 z4/5 NY (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 23:28 I'm sorry that I forgot to post Oved's passing here last Sunday b/c I'd received an e-mail about it from a friend. There is absolutely no ambiguity in what the parents of Big Boy were. Oved bred it and he told me what the two parents were, as you know. it was Goerge Ball who told me that John Peto took Teddy Jones with him when he left Burpee and used it as one parent when he bred Better Boy. George Ball is extremely anti-OP and even more an ti-heirloom. There's lots I could tell you about him, but what's the sense. Yes, we've talked, I have todays NYTimes and will read what was said. Oved was a brilliant vegetable breeder. But I have to admit he was short tempered and cantankerous. I had man y long talks with him, especially when he spent the summer with Glenn Drowns in IA and Oved was quite alone most of the time. He knew me previous to that trip out there so called me almost every other night. I hope the article also talked about his squash contributions. he isolated the yellow precocious gene from a gourd and that was incorporated into all the yellow summer squash b/c it masks CMV greening. he bred several other important veggies as well. I also was one of several folks who tried to get hmn to donate his germsplasm to the USDA and/or a University. I tried to help Dr. Molly Jahn at Cornell with her efforts, to no avail, But I've said too much already. Here's the e-mail notice I received last Sunday, just two days after he passed on: Well, it looks like I let it scroll off but forgot to save it. He died in Bloomington, Indiana of sepsis a week ago Friday and the details of the funeral service in NJ were discussed. I was asked to pass on the info to one branch of folks at Rutgers where Oved spent a long tenure. He had moved out to Bloomington only three months previously b/c he could no longer stay alone in his home in NJ and wouldn't let anyone help him. His one son lives in Bloomington. Oved went downhill rapidly after his wife died a few years ago. And I will read the article and comment when I can. Carolyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: Oved Shifriss, 89, a Plant Breeder //and Geneticist, Dies Posted by: Carolyn137 z4/5 NY (My Page) on Sun, Jul 11, 04 at 23:55 I forgot to say that Teddy Jones is not a Ukrainaian variety for my whole search to track it down started with an older SSE member who contacted me who lived on the farm next to where the folks who had Teddy jones lived, and knew them and knew the variety. And the other parent is absolutly NOT a Ukrainian variety, you'll just have to trust me on that. Just b/c Oved has now passed on doesn't give me the license to say in public what he told me in private and asked me to never divulge what that other parent is. As far as I know Ball knew about Teddy Jones and I assume he knew the other parent as well, for Big Boy. Actually he 's the one who told me that John Peto took it with him when he left Burpee. So you know darn well who produces F1 seed for Better Boy, and that's Petoseed. No doubt they do Big Boy as well. Oved also left Burpee early in his career. I think it might have been in the late 40's. to early 50's. Carolyn -

rthummer, that was a sweet story. Your FIL was a true gardener right to the end. Gardening was the main thing I remember my grandfather enjoying. He used to tell us Bible stories when we were young. My mother, dad and us kids lived with him. I remember going out in the back yard and looking at how beautiful it was out there. I used to think our back yard was the Garden of Eden my grand dad told us stories about. I'll bet he and your FIL are somewhere tending a beautiful garden together with no aches or pains at the end of the day. :) Linda

OK thanks Mantis. I will try that. By the way, I wanted to watch your garden videos again but couldn't remember how to get there. I really enjoyed them Here's what I really liked above, 1 for each person: Sherry Boy Crazy, Nancy, Bron to Run, Debra, Blue Grass Shadows. Maryl, Birdgton Intense Flame, David, Beauty in Motion, Peren-Bela Lugosi, Mantis Bob Marly, Laura-Bluegrass Memories, H. Nancy Broadway Player, and Kay, border Crossing. Here's my favorite Bs Bombay Silk. Beryl Quinn So far so good. On an edit to add more: Brave World Belle Isle Sentry That's all for b Brad