4' vs 6' can lighting in kitchen

11 years ago

Okay, so disclaimer first: I am very lighting-knowledge challenged. I'm reading and trying to learn, but I am a bit over my head on this.

To start, we are probably not putting in LED bulbs in the cans immediately due to costs - will switch those out (probably next year).

I had been reading on here that the Cree 6" are the preferred LEDs to go with. So, that's what my ultimate plans were, which means I need 6" cans to start with.

When our GC was over last evening (to sign contract), we got to talking lights - he doesn't have much experience at all with LEDs, so he's not a help in that regard and it seems he would be happier if I weren't being difficult about wanting to go that way. ;-)

Anyway, I mentioned that I was planning on ultimately using the Home Depot Eco-Smart 6" lights and he highly suggested that we go with 4" cans instead. He said that he felt the 6" cans looked "old-fashioned" and that we probably wouldn't be happy with them. I can see where they are larger (obviously) and it might be nice to have the 4" can, but there's additional cost involved for more cans, and more cost involved in purchasing more bulbs (plus the bulbs themselves appear to be $10 more for the 4" vs the 6").

We have just a hair shy of 8' ceilings in the kitchen - will the 6" look way too big? Will they look old-fashioned? Is there going to be a huge difference and I'm going to regret trying to save a few hundred dollars? I know that David here is a big proponent of the Cree 6"; are the 4" as good?

Please help! (P.S. I'll be tackling UC lighting as soon as I have sorted out the cans, so expect additional silly questions in the future...I'm really trying to learn, but with electrical stuff, I know just enough to be dangerous!)

Comments (7)

David
11 years ago
The ECO4-575 (CR4) has the same output rating as the ECO-575 (CR6). The perceived output is about the same.

You might end up with the same number of cans.
andreak100
Original Author
11 years ago
Thanks David.

I have to admit, smaller lights do appeal to me. If all else is equal between 4" and 6" cans, I'll go with the GC suggestion of the 4" ones.

So, as I'm looking further, it appears that I would need a trim kit if I go with standard bulbs, whereas the EcoSmart already come with that as part of the light unit, so it actually takes our costs down a bit if I'm interpreting things correctly.
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I'm only chiming in here to talk about aesthetics. I have a couple of 4" halogens that provide spot (task) lighting for my prep area - they are fabulous, but due to being installed in a "light bridge", they're only 4' off the counter. I also have 5" compact fluorescent cans in the kitchen and 6" incandescent cans (old) everywhere else. Aesthetically, i like the 5" best -- the 6" cans look enormous by comparison, and you need too many of the 4" cans to do the trick.
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Lots of threads on this already. My permits were pulled before the latest Title 24 became effective, so I may not be totally up to date. Wherever you can still install Edison sockets, by also installing dimmers, you should do that. Cost will be lower, and options down the line will be easier. Cannot do that for the kitchen. You may still be able to use Edison in the bath, if it is on a vacancy switch. I wish that I had spent the extra money to put in CR4 instead of CR6 in my living room. They just look better, and I didn't have anywhere in the LR that needed 800 lumens. I probably put too many CR6 lights in my LR/DR. I should have planned on supplementing with some nice reading lamps. I can't remember what I paid for installation (San Jose), but my guy is quite reasonable for add-ons. He had quoted base on 6 cans in the LR/DR, I put 21 plus cove lighting. The LR6 doesn't dim much, and is expensive. Sconces. Plan some lovely sconces. I lost a few in my remodel, and regret that.
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The information I used came from Osram Sylvania's product catalog, linked below. The PAR-type lamps start on page 39. Lumen output is often printed on the boxes the bulbs come in. However, lumen output isn't the figure you need to calculate how much light makes it to your countertop from a reflector bulb pointed directly at it. For that you'll need to know candlepower, which you can find amongst other photometric data in the catalog. Also, lamps/bulbs are described with a series of coded numbers, often stamped somewhere on the bulb itself, that give you a fair bit of useful information. For example, 50PAR20/CAP/SPL/WFL40 means 50 watt Parabolic (or Pressed glass) Aluminized Reflector, 20 eighths of an inch (2 1/2") in diameter, CAPsylite (a Sylvania brand), SPL (another Sylvania brand, referring to an "optical system" which I don't know anything about, Wide Flood, 40-degree beam angle. Here is a link that might be useful: Osram Sylvania Lamp & Ballast Catalog
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Hi David Ideally, I would like to either go with all 4" or 6" cans. I was persuaded not to use 4" cans as the light output might not be sufficient for 10' ceilings. I am leaning towards Cree CR6 lamps (3000K, 800L, with Legrand Adorne dimmer switch), if I do decide to go with 6" cans or CR4 for 4". My electrician recomends a generic brand (Electric Zone, 3000K, 1200L). With UCL, would the cans still need to be placed within countertop edge (25.5" in my case)? I visited a few lighting stores locally and almost all of them placed the lights (cans) in a grid pattern over the walkways, which is contrary to what the correct practice should be as highlighted in the houzz and garden web forums. I am attempting to get a good lighting balance balance and not over do it. Appreciate the help and guidance.
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David
11 years ago
Yes, the EcoSmart4-575 and EcoSmart 575 all come with the trim attached.
fouramblues
11 years ago
I'm also lighting challenged, so just recently became acquainted with all this info/lingo myself. So, FWIW, I just bought lots of eco4-575 bulbs for my kitchen. You can get the ones with the Edison base for just under $40 in my store (more $ online). The ones with the GU24 base are available only online, and are almost $50. Barring local codes, I don't know which base is preferable, but it's just something to think about if you decide to bite the bullet and go LED from the get-go.
David
11 years ago
The intent of the gu24 base was to make it impossible to fit an incandescent bulb in the fixture.

In practice,
1. the rule increases costs since manufacturers have to produce energy efficient lighting with either the e26 or gu24 base. Retailers have more SKUs to stock and slow moving inventory.
2. Finding the bulb with the correct base becomes more of a hassle.
3. Adapters are sometimes used (which defeats the original intent).

if you are not subject to energy efficiency mandates, get that which makes the most sense.
wws944
11 years ago
When one factors in the cost of trim and incandescent bulb ($20ish), it makes a lot of sense just to install the CR-4 or CR-6 LED lights to begin with. If the bulbs are at all highly used, like more than an hour or two a day, the ROI for the extra $20 is a couple of years or less in lower electricity costs.

Kitchen lights tend to be some of the more highly used lights in a house. In ours, they are probably on at least 6 hours a day. At $0.30/kwh (our tier 3 non-prime time here in California) using a 10 watt CR-6 instead of a 65 watt BR-30 would pay for that $20 difference in about 1200 hours of use. That is 200 days. About 7 months. In other areas of the country with power rates that make sense, you would still break even in under two years.
andreak100
Original Author
11 years ago
Just coming back to this thread. Thanks for everyone chiming in.

Over the weekend, my DH and I stopped at Home Depot to look at can lights. Definitely liked the 4" much better.

We don't have the energy efficiency mandates (live in PA), so we are likely to go with the Edison ones if they are less expense.

wws944 - Yeah, as we looked at the costs of getting the trim and the bulbs, going LED does add to the cost initially, but I think we would recoup the amount fairly quickly. We'll be going from a woefully underlit kitchen, so the increased lights are going to add to our electric costs anyway if we go incandescent. So, likely to get the LEDs.

Now, to actually get our contractor...the guy we were going to go with wound up having some very different opinions on how detailed we needed to be with the contract and with us already having had several areas where he "forgot" about what we discussed, we are feeling that he may not be the best fit for us.

4' vs 6' can lighting in kitchen

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4' vs 6' can lighting in kitchen

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