OK, looks like everyone is as busy as I am. Hate to let my sister down, as I said I would check this board every day, but alas, Tomorrow starts two (2) weeks of the state high stakes testing. The pressure and stress is sooooo heartbreaking. I teach 5th grade, I had 2 boys crying on Friday over something really insignificant, but you know it's the pressure of these D**** tests. They are so worried they wont be able to go to middle school with their friends. I've been in meetings all week signing my life away that I wont look at the test, etc. Now I have to turn in a seating chart of my testing environment, signing that they were 3 feet apart and not able to cheat. Sorry for rambling, but I really get angry, our politicians have forgotten these are children and not all children are college material. I'm going to give the next two (2) names, because this will really be a busy week.... first....triciae then... hostabuff thanks for letting me vent, hope everyone has a great week. It is starting to look like spring here, so the next couple of weeks should be great. Patty

kt, Glad to hear I'm not alone in my driving aversions. Yah know, ya can learn something about yourself every day. I never really thought about it, but scent _is_ important in my gardens. Maybe that's why I grow so many herbs? As for Roman chamomile, I think that in warmer climates it could be invasive. Mine usually dies back every year (although it stays green well into the winter) and comes up from the roots and a few seedlings around the mother plant. It has never spread out in to the rest of the garden. I kind of wish it would, because it would be a nice groundcover under the roses. The leaves themselves look very light and feathery. Hey, maybe I should buy some more..... I agree that the herb garden is rather full, even with some plants in pots on the wall and others in the walkway. But, I tell ya, working in that garden on a summer morning will be real multi-sensory pleasure. kt, if your design software is a no-show, I can take a crack at mapping out an herb garden in Excel based on these elements. I also have a house design package that I used for the additions this year. It has a garden function that I haven't used. It doesn't look to be optimized for curved/circular gardens, since it is primarily for foundation plantings, but I can give it a try over the holiday and see if I can produce something useful. Like you, I have my entire family coming up for our traditional New England Thanksgiving. My 82-year old parents, sister, brother-in-law, six kidlings from three to 18 and their dog, will be invading on Wednesday. On Sunday, when they all leave, I also have to head down to Newark Airport to fly to Brazil for a week long business trip. Yes, I plan to sleep for the entire flight down. So, if I disappear from the forum again for a few days, ya'll know why. Just in case anyone drops out before me to prepare for a similar invasion (that means you, kt), have a Happy Thanksgiving!!! narcnh (who snuck outside in his jammies while typing this just to crush and smell some Roman chamomile)

So, it sounds like you're willing to modify/move the window...is that correct? What about the garage doorway? Is the garage "below" the pantry part of the Kitchen and to the left of the Dining/Living Room? A full-floor layout would help a lot! . Edited to Add (ETA): I'm guessing you aren't willing to remove the brick wall - correct? What's behind it? Where exactly are the "alcoves" in the brick wall & their sizes? Key information! Distance from finished floor, distances b/w the them, distance from the window wall to the first one, distance from the second one to the end of the brick wall, dimensions of each alcove (WxDxH), etc. Has that wall b/w the Dining Room & Kitchen been taken down yet? If not, how thick is that wall? What is the size of the Dining Room? Where is the Living Room? The Bedrooms? Powder Room/Bathrooms? Other rooms? Also, what are the dimensions on the "Pantry" side? Specifically, the dimensions on the window wall, including the dimensions of the bay window and the window well. How far is the (I assume) garage door from the left wall & from the end of the wall on the right? How wide is the door (including trim)? Finally, as a cross-check, what is the width of the opening b/w the right brick wall and the left Dining Room wall -and- the width of the space b/w the bottom of the brick wall and the beginning of the Dining room wall?

It's been several days since I have posted, but that is because I have been giving these ideas much thought and have been talking to many professionals. What is your style? Do you have pics saved in an idea book of the look you are going for? This is an excellent question. I have looked at thousands of pictures of kitchens, and I haven't seen one that I can say, "That's exactly what I'm going for." So, to best answer your question, I'll show you the materials I'd like to use: ginger maple shaker fronts, white solid surface counter, "oak" LVP flooring, "painted" backsplash tile, and, if I keep some wall on both sides dividing the kitchen and dining room, I'd put the blue paint in the kitchen, yellow above the chair rail and the blue below in the dining room, and yellow on the walls of the rest of the main floor. So I'm not sure what you'd call it - transitional? Although I am very excited about being able to see and chat with people at the dining table while I am cleaning up in the kitchen, I think I do prefer having the more traditional mental division between kitchen and dining room with even just stub walls, and I do like the chair rail, if I am able to keep a bit of wall on the sides. Maybe that is the very definition of transitional? But practical matters of the small house and large family and a limited budget must be considered above my personal preferences. Although the contractor said "it doesn't cost that much to reduce the bulkhead," "it doesn't cost that much to move the sliding glass door," and "it doesn't cost that much to move pipes for the clean-up sink," all of it together - with the cabinet vendor that he uses - did cost much. He just came out this afternoon to do some measurements and discuss ways to reduce cost. This plan below is what I discussed with him: (1) Instead of messing with the bulkhead at all, keeping the wall only as far as the depth of the bulkhead (about 23"), but then have little to no wall on the other side. I can't have 23" on the other side for symmetry, because that wouldn't leave enough room to walk around people seated at the table, but I'm hoping that would look fine if we put cabinets up to the ceiling in the corner where the bulkhead is. He liked this idea a lot, because you just don't know what's in there. (BTW, I offered to pay him to open it up and see, but he won't open it up to have a look, or do any work at all, until a full contract is signed, first payment given, and cabinets ordered.) He did warn, however, that the cost of the cabinets and counter there will probably cost about the same as what he was including for reducing the bulkhead - so this solution does give more storage, it doesn't actually save any money. (2) Instead of a sliding glass door, put in a 30" standard door using the opening for the existing window in the dining room. A sliding door would be much better than a swinging door that hits those seated at the table, but it will be rare that we have people seated while others are going in and out, so I'll do it if it saves a lot of $$. He loved this idea, and said it would save me about $1000, but when I asked about what he'd recommend about the HVAC register that is currently on he floor in front of the window, he said it would be too costly to move it, and I should just leave it. It seems the register plate would get kicked up and rusted with traffic in and out, so I am not sure how good of a solution this is, after all. (3) I thought having a pantry closet with shelves and doors would save money over the cost of cabinets and countertop in that alcove, but he said the labor to put the shelves, doors and drywall would be more, so I'll go back to the cabinets. (4) Lose the second dishwasher. If I have a prep sink, it won't be so bad having one dishwasher with dishes piling up in the clean-up sink. As you can see below, I'm concerned about clearances and flow; losing the dishwasher will cut the cost some but also will give better clearances if I have to keep the 23" of wall below the bulkhead. I played with a few designs with two dishwashers and only one sink, but none of them seemed to work nearly as well as this one. Bbtrix - the range is centered in this design :-) and I'd love to know if you think if the stub wall that would stick out about 6" would still create a strange divide between the dishwasher and door, now that the dishwasher and door are much further away from each other. He liked this idea, but it still requires moving pipes, so let's hope that "doesn't cost that much." (5) I've fallen in love with the white solid surface countertops and the painted backsplash I pictured above, but I may just have to go to laminate countertops with the 4" backsplash if that saves thousands of dollars. He recommended granite over laminate or solid surface. Many granites are beautiful, but my countertops are primarily a work surface that functions better if it is light-colored and simple, and I find granite dark and very busy, and the few granites that are lighter in color seem to stain easily. I've heard laminates have come a long way, I just liked solid surface more because it's more reparable, doesn't have seams, the integrated sink, and I like the soft feel of it - maybe that's not worth the extra $$. Thanks to everyone who has stuck with me and has been liking my comments - I warned in my subject line that this would be a challenge, but I had no idea what I was getting myself into!