I don't understand how or why you came to some of your conclusions. Line voltage halogen in similar size lamps as MR16's are available. See the link for line voltage airtite IC substitute for MR16 using a GU10.

MR16 low voltage lamps are available in longer life with more beam angle choices.

I'm not suggesting anything at this point, just giving you some more research guidance and asking for further explanations of how you made your decisions so far.

Here is a link that might be useful: Halo GU10

Dim4fun,

Let me explain how I got to some of my conclusions. The lighting specialty store that I am using likes to use Elco Lighting for their recessed. I spoke with a Elco rep yesterday to ask about line-V halogens and was told because of the heat that an MR16/GU10 puts off they do not have an IC-A housing that would work, but they did have a housing for PAR20 and PAR16 in an line-v IC-A. I then assumed, wrongly, that the MR16 IC-A heat problem was a industry issue and not a manufacturer issue. Hence I was asking my question of low-v MR16 vs line-v PAR20...

Now that I know that Halo and probably others do make a line-v MR16 IC-A housing, let me ask a different qu...

If I like the lighting store that I am talking to and they like Elco lights for their recessed lights what would the main advantages/disadvantages to line-v PAR20s or PAR16s when compared to low-v MR16's be?

Just curious but is there an easy part when it come to picking things out for a home... Even when I think there is something fairly easy it become harder... But thanks to the many great people here who give people like me guidance.

Look up the available beam spreads of the lamps you are proposing. There is more variety in MR16. There are also lenses to spread, diffuse and color the light. MR16's are available with longer life. They are smaller and more adjustable trims are made for them.

Is any of that important for this home?

Brand names like Juno and Halo generally have better engineered products.

Dim,

thanks for the Halo link. I have found trims for both the PAR20s and GU10s that I like. I have also looked up the bulbs as you suggested on bulbs.com. I compared the PAR20s to the MR16-GU10s I saw they both have about the same beam spread 10-40 degrees. One big difference was the candle power with most 50w PAR20s being below 500 and the 50w GU10s around 1800, is there really that much difference in the strength of the power of the two?

I'm left scratching my head a bit trying to see the difference between the two PAR20 and MR16

MR16 FNV is 55 or 60 degrees and is often used to light larger paintings.

You cannot aim a Par 20 in a 4" recessed fixture because the lamp is too long to be tilted.

mcassel, I think part of the info you're missing is this:

The MR in MR16 stands for Mirror Reflector.

The AR in PAR stands for Aluminized Reflector.

Highly polished mirror reflectors are able to direct light in a very focussed, controlled way, so the light the bulb produces can be directed to in a very specific direction (yielding a high candlepower in that direction but throwing little light off to the sides. This effect is increased with low-voltage bulbs because the filaments are smaller. However, the tightly controlled beams that are native to these bulbs can then be softened and adjusted with optional diffusing lenses that dim4fun mentioned.

Aluminized reflectors are much less polished and tend to scatter the light, so less of the light is concentrated in the middle of the beamspread, and more is sent off to the sides.

If you want dramatic, spotlight-like effects then the MR bulbs are the way to go.

If you want softer-edged light, or if you're trying for even lighting, where the pools of light from adjacent fixtures can blend together somewhat seamlessly, then PAR lamps are probably the better choice.

If you want soft light but need especially small or versatile fixtures then MR-types with diffusing lenses might be the solution.

If you want to use 50PAR20 lamps, you can check out Nora Lighting for gimbal and eyeball trims. They take this particular lamp.

I have sold many GU10 fixtures, but have recently begun to question them. I have an instance in a pool hall where the previous owner used GU10 low voltage fixtures. The way they were made you cannot replace the socket. The changing of the bulbs has caused the ceramic socket to wear down and we are now faced with changing out the fixtures.

The owner is changing the fixtures over to MR16s because the sockets last longer since they are just plug in lamps.

I wanted to let you know about this because it is the first time I have seen this "down the road."

Jon,

you hit the nail on the head. Thanks for seeing that I needed to go back to bulbs 101 to more understand these differences.

So let me do a quick recap. Both MR and PARs are halogens and providing the wattage is the same produce the same amount of "total" light. The main benefits from MR16 is the variety of beams and bulb lenses, there are also more adjustable trim kits for the MR16s because of its small size... PARs can still be spot or flood but are not as focused light and does not have as many options for beam and lenses, also most trims are limited to 30 degree adjustability. One other big difference is the cost of the housings with PAR housing being considerable cheaper.

So for me if I am wanting more kitchen island task lighting and wall washing/art accenting but am not looking for "spot" lighting and unfortunately I need to keep cost in mind, would you say PAR20s with an adjustable gimble trim is the way to go for me?

Also thanks for spending the time helping me. I know all the noob questions must get old.

"...providing the wattage is the same produce the same amount of "total" light."

This is roughly true, but is not absolute.

"...PAR20s with an adjustable gimble trim..."

I'm not sure there is such a thing as a gimbal trim for PAR20 lamps. Eyeball trims I've seen, but not gimbal. There's also another type of trim entirely called a wall-washer. For the island, you probably don't need the adjustability anyhow.

Otherwise, I think you've got a decent grip on it now.

mcassel, how big is the island you're providing task lighting for, and how high above it will the lights be?

I ask because I have one prep area that is 4'2" long; over it is a light bridge, thus the lights are only 4' above the surface. We used two of these 4" 50-watt halogens, and the light from them is fantastic; sometimes we even dim it (and not just for ambiance). FWIW, these are called MR16/GU10 -- I thought from reading the above posts that these were two different things. Anyway, they're not PAR lamps.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nora 4

"these are called MR16/GU10 -- I thought from reading the above posts that these were two different things."

"MR16" and "GU10" are descriptions of unrelated attributes of the bulb. MR16 denotes a mirror reflector two inches in diameter, while GU10 refers to the "base" which is the electrical and mechanical connection between the bulb and the fixture. There are MR16 bulbs that have GU10 bases -- these are line voltage -- and MR16 bulbs with GU5.3 bases, which are low-voltage.

dmlove,
my island is 18' long and the ceiling height is 10'. The lighting will be recessed into the ceiling. From what I have read with my ceiling height I could do 4 cans over the island and it should work OK. below is the cabinet layout for the kitchen but I shrunk the hallway dimension to make it more forum friendly.

"my island is 18' long and the ceiling height is 10'...I could do 4 cans over the island and it should work OK."

18' is a long surface to cover with only four cans, even with 10' ceilings. What sort of bulbs are you basing that idea on? It certainly won't work with PAR20s, and I'm very doubtful that MR16s would work either. 75 watt PAR30 floods, maybe, but even then you'd be better off with five.