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mamadadapaige

Stainless Steel Undermount Sink - too much $$$$

mamadadapaige
12 years ago

It seems that every single thing I am considering for my kitchen happens to be on the upper end of the pricing scale.

Because my budget is not, I am deciding what I can afford and trying to look at this objectively.

I need three sinks:

Main

Prep

Butler's Pantry

The main sink will next to a dead corner so I thought this would be a good opportunity to get a large sink with an integrated drain board - of those available, I like the Kohler Stages 45 best but am not sure it will fit into inset cabinetry - apparently it requires 3" mounting clips. One reason for my liking this sink is I think it will take the pressure off of minimal counterspace to the right of the sink --- I tend to rinse a lot of fresh fruit / veggies and have colanders sitting and dripping on the counters - these could sit on the drainboard.

This sink is a bit of a budget buster but I felt if I went low key on the other sinks it is doable.

I feel like I have spent DAYS reviewing all the options and still haven't made a firm decision. Part of me thinks I should just go with a normal large single bowl sink but in that case I would like one with the little ledge to hold colander and these are UP there is price (more than the Stages).

What did you choose for a sink? Did you agonize over it like me? I really like the sleeker, smaller radius sinks but they are up there in price. Anyone have a good recommendation in terms of brand (something reliable that won't rust). I like those Rachiele handmade sinks but there is no way I can afford one. I like the Elkay Avado but again price is up there. If you were me would you go with the STages and call it a day?

Comments (36)

  • mamadadapaige
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The other option I have been toying with is reducing the size of the main sink so that I can pick up a bit more space between sink and cooktop - I am concerned that I don't have enough. I will have the peninsula for working on but since I have never had a prep sink before I'm concerned I might be an old dog who can't learn new tricks in terms of using the prep area for prepping.

  • mmhmmgood
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I bought the stages 33 for my needs (if only I had space for the 45!), then found a good deal on a Ticor sink for my second sink. I thought the Kohler would be of better quality, but in fact I can't say that it is. During templating we noticed a slight bow in the sink bowl of my Kohler sink (along the edge opposite the shelf) where it should be straight. In the middle of the upper edge it is about 1/16" bowed in compared to the same edge front and back. Not a big deal for me since I'm not too picky about that sort of thing and it will never bother me, it was just a surprise.

    Do you have a stone countertop planned? If so have you considered putting in some runnels instead of having a sink with a drainboard? Maybe that would help with your dilemma. Though I'm not sure if the runnels would be any more cost effective.

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  • mamadadapaige
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mmhmgood- interesting re: the stages. Your idea re: runnels is a good one... Our aesthetic planning is still a little undecided. DH thinks my scheme lacks warmth... He would like white cabinets. I love the OTK look but that really isn't what I would prefer. At this point we are working through compromise and budget issues. My tastes run a bit more modern than DH. Budget really does play into this. My idea is darker slate (or slate lookalike tiles) with gray cabinets and white countertops. I am splurging on a modernaire hood and am thinking of white enamel with mirror stainless bands. The white countertops are the budgetary problems... If i have the courage for stone (concerned with etching) it is a big ticket item (we will need about 77 sq ft). I can get a very good deal on silestone so have to consider that. IMO, the silestone in white is not warm-- it appeals to my modern streamlined sensibilities but would detract from DH's desire for warmth. DH thinks if we had wood with this scheme it would the
    appropriate amount of warmth. I completely agree with him, but we are doing radiant floor heating (heat is woefully inadequate) so some sort of tile would be better.

    The whole thing is getting so convoluted .., I am having a hard time keeping on track.

  • blfenton
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The only thing I knew when we started our kitchen reno was that it was going to be creamy white cabinets - everything else was an agonizing decision involving countless hours on the internet and countless runs to stores. That included the decision for the sinks. I was originally going to go with Blanco zero or small radius sinks but wasn't sure if I would be happy with the more contemporary look of them as I got older. I wound up with 2 Franke sinks and really like them.

  • rococogurl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'd get the Stages (I have serious sink envy over that) and go with Ticor 16 g undermounts for the other two. Everyone seems happy with Ticor sinks and the prices are certainly right.

    If I was doing white countertops I'd take a serious look at the Caesarstone whites. I've seen the white blizzard installed and it's terrific. It doesn't have the seductive marble surface but it's elegant and also comes with none of the marble issues. Caesarstone also has another white I believe (cannot remember exactly). They also have a concrete gray that is fantastic. I don't like sparkly or chunky but this surface looks excellent to me. I was definitely considering it as a counter for a small addition as it coordinates well with my SS counters. It will pull things in a modern direction without going 0 radius and full slab.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Ticor sinks

  • rnest44
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Keep focused and keep agonizing so you make a good decision. I didn't agonize but bounced all over the place. In haste as time ran out I chose two ticor sinks. I love my round stainless steel prep sink with the delta allora prep faucet. I'm repeating the sink soon in my mini kitchenette across the great room. My clean up sink, not so much.

    In looking at your set-up I think the Stages would be a good option. In London we stayed in an apartment where the sink was in a corner like that. Someone must have mis-ordered b/c the integrated drainboard was on the "wrong" side. We both thought the designer must be directionally challenged with great ideas. We agreed that had it been done right it would have been excellent use of the space.

  • nerdyshopper
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    When my wife wanted a dual stainless sink I found that I could save a bundle buying a Ticor from Overstock.com. We got one relatively large and deep sink and one about the size of our old double sink. They came with beautiful strainers and with racks that fit the bottom of the sink. And they were 15 or 16 gage stainless too. If you search there you might find a combination you can use and still have some cash left.

  • _sophiewheeler
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Don't go so bright white with the counters and it will feel much warmer. The Eggshell or Oyster colors give an overall impression of white but are warmer in feel. I'd personally do wood for your prep peninsula and use a plain cheap stainless sink for it with runnels. I would also make the cleanup sink smaller. You only need a 25" sink for cleanup if you have one chore for one child to be loading the DW with the dirties. Even if your kids aren't old enough to trust with that job yet and you have to do it, a nice deep 25" sink can hold a boat load of dirty dishes.

  • mamadadapaige
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Thank you all for the feedback and input. I had read so many positive reviews here on GW for Ticor, that was definitely the direction I was heading in for the prep and butler's pantry sinks.

    I guess if I opt to downsize the main sink to a 25" as hollysprings suggests I could go up a little in size for the prep sink.

    DH suggested wood on the island - I don't know... very concerned with durability. Am feeling like the wood with a sink is similar to how I feel about marble. I just don't want to have to baby anything. The kids are active in the kitchen with me - no one is careful. I don't want to pester them. I do love the look of a wood top for an island. Had somewhat considered wood for the base of the island but it just keeps going further away from my vision (but i guess closer to DH's vision). There must be some way to marry our visions! ... I am open to compromise and I think he is too.

  • mydreamhome
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Be sure to check on Overstock.com & inquire about 'Bargain Bins' or 'closeouts' at your local plumbing supply houses for good deals on the sinks you want. That's how I got my Oliveri sink at a little less than 1/2 price & a Kohler stainless undermount that sells for over $400 for just $20! Good luck!

  • breezygirl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    My first glance at your plan made me wonder, politely, which sink was cleanup and which was prep. The cleanup sink is so near the range that you might be tempted just to prep there, especially, as you mention, you've never had a prep sink before. I think I'd be more likely to unconsciously reach for the sink on the same run as the range rather than crossing the aisle to the peninsula. Probably a little reminding of myself would train my brain to use the actual prep.

    My sink search wasn't too complicated. I knew I hated stainless and didn't really want another white enamel/porcelain sink. I first saw silgranit at a plumbing showroom, did some research, and decided that was my material. After finding GW, I immediately recognized the appeal of a large, single bowl for the cleanup sink and didn't want to use up my valuable island space with an oversized prep sink.

    Besides being stainless that I don't like, the Kohler stages was way out of my budget range. I did like the idea of a drainboard so I had my woodworker fabricate runnels next to my prep sink in my walnut top. Mine were only about $200, so well worth it to me. I wad and rinse lots of fruit and veggies that I then set on the runnels to drain.

    I remember struggling with my vision and major finishing choices like you are now. At least my DH didn't much care how it looked so I could do what I wanted. Although sometimes that was too much pressure.... ;)

    Good luck! You'll get there!

  • cluelessincolorado
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Just wanted to chime in with two items:

    LOVE my undermount Kraus sink and I've had radiant floor heat under wood floors and it's fantastic :-)

  • davidro1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'd keep your layout, and tweak it.
    cabinet next to fridge = the bigger one
    cabinet next to corner = the smaller one
    I'm assuming these are drawer cabinets. All drawers.
    wall mount faucet (?)
    humongous sink a lot more over into the dead corner
    drain rack on the sink floor
    drainboard equivalent = a hanging rack A La Franke Orca or similar
    drainboard equivalent = any dishdrying thingie baskety structure made of stainless steel rod
    drainboard equivalent = any hanging colander thingie that can be gotten at Ikea
    peninsula fatter and stubbier, more square-shaped
    peninsula corners rounded and without any leg underneath
    peninsula sink = undermounted Silgranit or stainless
    butler sink = any $30 sink
    other sinks = same $30 sink

    I have hanging colanders from Ikea. Some plastic, some made of steel. Total cost less than the price of a cookbook.

    Instead of projecting all wishes and desires onto the sink product, ask the countertop material to do for you what an integrated sink rim colander dishrack drainboard combination would do.

    Your image posted is too small and the text is illegible.

    Presume that all stainless sinks are good, in terms of brand, and reliable. There is no such thing as stainless that rusts. If you need to see it in print, here it is: stainless is rust-free for life. Any stainless. Ikea has sinks from $30 to $200. The lower price ones are for those who understand that any stainless is stainless is rustfree. The higher price ones are for those who need to spend more to feel reassured. Kohler will charge you even more so if you need that psychological reassurance they are available to fill that need.

    Any drop in colander fits on top of the open hole that a sink is. Ask not if something fits, ask any other question but not that one. Any drop in dish drying rack too. I have two colanders each about 5" wide. Together they make a great setup to plop anything onto. Big or small.

    Hth

  • rococogurl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I know some have main sinks smaller than 30" but I couldn't. If necessary, lose the expensive Stages and get a big deep Ticor. When I had my 30" x 10" deep SS sink I did some of the prep and messy stuff in there down on the grid. Everything fit for cleaning too, oven racks & pans, the biggest pots. I could never ever go back to a sink with smaller or shallower bowls -- of course everyone is different.

    Likewise, I see these tiny prep sinks and cannot imagine how they can be useful. I'd go with the largest of those I could if it will truly be used. Ticor, or as someone mentioned, the other discounters should help with this.

    Re counters, no way I would do wood around a main sink. Either it's constant oiling or marine varnish which is a look that should be illegal. I had a butcher block island counter for 15 years and couldn't wait to get rid of it. Never could disinfect, the oiled surface attracted dirt and I had to put a cutting board on it anyone so it didn't start to smell.

    Again, some do and love it. But I like easy maintenance and if there are kids and no one is careful then solid surface or granite seems like a no brainer. If DH wants wood then is it possible to do a partial end-cut butcher block on an island or the end of a counter somewhere?

  • angel411
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I know I must have missed this somewhere, but did you have to leave your unbelievably beautiful kitchen that you posted a few years back?

    Here is a link that might be useful: kitchen

  • mamadadapaige
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    You guy are the best! Such great ideas and advice. I am reworking the plan right now (while at work!). I am thinking of the main and prep sinks both being the TR4000 by Ticor (such a better price - seems to be the right size for both clean up and prep). Will post an updated floor plan ASAP. Please check back!! Am trying to get the elevations done so I can post those too.

    Angel, Yup, we moved on - long story but all is well.

  • brianadarnell
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I'm with Breezy on this one. Hated my stainless sinks and decided to go with Silgranit for the new kitchen. Couldn't be happier. The silgranit sinks were actually very economical considering I got the largest one they make for $400. I thought that was a good deal.

    Is your island one height or two? The current sink position means that you are cutting your counterspace into small sections for each. If you mounted your sink closer to one side, you'd have more prep space. What about switching the cleanup sink and the prep sinks? I think the current cleanup sink location makes it more useful for prep.

  • GreenDesigns
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Did you go back to a single fridge instead of the separate fridge and freezer? If so, and I'm looking at your diagram correctly, then I'd manage to get the main sink around that corner and on the other wall. Put it into a larger blind corner base if you have to in order to get the DW next to it (next to the fridge). But get it further away from the cooktop. That will force you to go from fridge to island to island sink to cooktop rather than using the cleanup sink for prep. Of course, it's still there if you need a second prep spot, but it's slightly less convenient for the main cook, being around the corner.

    Then you can do the Euro thing of your plate rack above the sink being open bottomed to dry the dishes. Or a fold down dish drying rack.






    Ikea makes a drainboard drop in sink that would be perfect on a butcher block prep counter. There are tons of accessories designed to go with it as well.


    {{gwi:1612899}}

  • davidro1
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kitchen sinks are installed into 24"d base cabinet runs. This means the inches front to back are all the same dimension (give or take a fraction).

    Thus, accessories like the $5 colander shown above are good on all sinks. Hint hint.

  • lavender_lass
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mamapaige- I would use a sink like this, for your clean up sink...
    {{gwi:1612900}}From Kitchen plans

    Then, I'd put the stainless steel sink (with the drainboard) on the island. That's your prep space and that's where you'll be preparing fruit, salads, etc.

    A cute little bar sink, in the butler's pantry is probably all you need, in that area. If this is repeating earlier advice, I apologize...but too busy to read the entire thread, today :)

  • cmm6797
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    We have an Elkay stainless steel undermount that fits in a 36" base cabinet ( I think the sink is about 30" wide.) I also originally wanted the huge Stages sink until I saw the price. Between the sink and the faucet I just couldn't justify the expense, so decided to spend a little more on the faucet. In the end I realized that I had been living with small sinks for my whole adult life so anything bigger would be better! It is plenty big for us - fits a colander with veggies as well as some dirty dishes, and no they're not touching each other.

  • sayde
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have a 30 apron sink and love the single bowl but wish I had gone with a 36. For cleaning up I find I need lots of room for pots, pans, colanders.

    Understand you do not want counters that are hard to maintain but nonetheless wondering if you had considered carrara. It is relatively inexpensive and would be nice and warm with your greys. I am finding that my honed marble is not at all difficult to care for and one of my favorite things in the kitchen.

  • mamadadapaige
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Hi all,
    I am going to write more later in response to your individual advice. Am trying to get out of work but wanted to post an updated plan. I LOVE the idea of clean up on the peninsula. Make so much sense! more later....

  • mamadadapaige
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    darn, i tried to increase type size to make more legible and it is still fuzzy. when i bring the jpeg into photobucket it won't publish at the size i bring it in it. i have to resize it downward. oh well... sorry for illegibility.

  • lavender_lass
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Mamapaige- Just a quick comment. Are you going to spend more time prepping or cleaning up? I'd put whichever sink will be used more often, in the island. That way, you can interact with friends/family, without having your back to them. At least, that's what I'd do :)

  • mamadadapaige
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    blfenton, thanks for the encouraging words. three sinks ago we had a franke, and it cleaned up much easier and better than the Elkay that came after it. Our current sink came with the house and is okay but it is a 50/50 double bowl and a PITA!!! I can't even put a small frying pan flat on the bottom of it for cleaning even if I am angling it diagonally. The sink decision is such a big one ... I think it is one of those things that you don't really notice until you have a really good one or a really bad one.

    rococo- i love the caesarstone. I can get a very good deal on silestone, not as good on caesarstone, but I am not as jazzed about the silestone choices. My budget got a break today in a couple of ways. First, with the encouragement of those responding here today, I am much more comfortable with Ticor. As much as I really love the Stages sink, I can get two really nice Ticor's for less than the one stages and the Ticor comes with great accessories. Second, I was able to get hooked up with some very attractive pricing on my appliances which is a huge relief and takes a lot of pressure off the budget. Finalizing my appliance choices is at least one step in getting over the finish line. I have been as back and forth with appliances as I am with sinks, colors, countertops, etc. -- Back to the sink and your comment about size: In my last kitchen, I had an Elkay 21" sink and that was my only one. It was SO inadequate and I think that is why I am fussing over this so much. I want to spend the money and be REALLY happy with the result.

    mydreamhome, boxerpups has the Oliveri too. I had never heard about it until reading through some old posts yesterday where she mentions how happy she is with it and how reasonably priced it was. Leave it to me, the one I happened to like costs $1,000... it never fails!

    breezygirl - you're brilliant. I love the suggestion of switching prep and clean up. DH is on board too. This frees me up to make some changes to the sink selections and feel really good and settled about it. Do you worry about the walnut being damaged by the water? not sure, I'd have the stomach to do this. What type of finish is on your walnut? did you get it from grothouse? It is beautiful! Thanks again for your astute observation on the plan... I am SO thankful as I think this is a big break through.

    clueless, does the wood transfer the heat effectively? I heard that tile was the best at this but we are new to this. The house we bought has a radiant bathroom floor and this is tile and very toasty warm. Such a luxury - I love it... very much lookign forward to this in the kitchen which is currently FREEZING.

    davidro1, thank you for all the thoughtful suggestions. your point about flipping the base cabinets next to the fridge is a good one -- Done! I think I need to make a trip to Ikea ... I forget about it as it is about 1.5 hours away. Sorry about the illegible text - I increased the size but what happens is that Photobucket thinks my image is too big so it doesn't show up here unless I resize it down. will try again. Thanks for all your insightful comments.

    Briana, I couldn't agree more.. made the switch. it will be all one level - this new arrangement has the sink closer to the wall. I am reluctant to move it any closer as I don't want to knock my elbows against the wall while cleaning up. Am thinking of a six inch pull out cabinet between the wall and the sink base.

    Green Designs, yes, I did switch fridge/freezers. In the end, I just couldn't give up 48" of space and really didn't have a good location if i were to split them up and put one here and one somewhere else. We are going with a 30" built in Subzero. I really like the interior layout. It borders on being too small but as DH points out maybe this will mean we throw away less food. We will either have an extra fridge in the basement or if possible the fridge/freezer combo undercounter drawers (depending on how things work out with this friend who is helping me with appliances). RE: the sink, I love all those Euro accessories.... again, i need to get to Ikea!! I don't think I want to move the sink around the corner though as I really want a view into the backyard while at the sink. I like to watch the dogs play in their pen and I like to keep my eye on the kids while they're out there.

    Lavender, i love that sink - the countertops remind me of what i had in my old house. i'm going with undermount though as i want to optimize the cabinets in the corner and don't want to worry about leaving extra filler space so drawers can clear the sink. Re: your other post, I think I would do more prep by the window when alone and more on the peninsula when the kids are around. Currently that time is split about 50/50. I think equal size sinks will allow me options. I like the DW on the peninsula as I was concerned about having it between what will likely be a heavily used area. Plus in the morning when the kids are eating their breakfast, it will be so easy for me to clean up while being with them.

    cmm6797 - the prices I have seen on the Elkay's are as much as the stages (or maybe just because I love the Avado sinks... maybe those are more??). In the last house I had an $800 Rohl faucet... not this time around! Thinking about Moen - have been reading good things on these boards about them. I had to make a $200 repair to the Rohl which burned me up. I don't think it will seem like as big a deal with a less expensive faucet. I have been to a few places where they are hooked up to water so that you can try them out but unfortunately the ones I like the styling of have not been hooked up. I may have to roll the dice. I am just hoping for a pull down that doesn't act up, or droop down when it is supposed to stay put.

    sayde, I looked at Carrara the other day. The salesman told me of a company that if you hire this guy to seal the countertops, they will be guaranteed for life against staining. they don't obviously make any guarantees about etching. I just love marble. I had thassos in my last house in the master bathroom and just loved it. I did get a bad etch on it (had vinegar in the bathroom... long story, don't ask why). I was very bummed out afterward - it was a bad etch and the thassos had been so beautifully polished. if I were to do marble i would do honed for sure and i'd get the guy who guarantees to come and seal it.

    Thanks again for all your help today. This plan has come SO far since I first posted it about a month ago. I really appreciate all the help.

  • Tim
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I haven't read through all the posts but we got a Kraus undermount sink. 16ga stainless, nice small radius corners etc. and it was WAY less expensive than Franke etc.

    I got ours for $300 or so on eBay from a local close-out place.

  • GreenDesigns
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The thing about switching the cleanup to the island is the much longer distance to the dish storage beside the fridge. If you did a couple of open storage dish cabinets or open shelves on the chimney (will be difficult but not impossible to properly attach) that would solve that issue. You'd still need silverware storage though.

  • kimiko232
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    For some reason, I decided to look at the ticor site. I saw what looks to me like a stages knockoff. It has one side that is elevated like the stages. Now, I didn't look to see what size you needed, but it looks like it's a 33 incher. It doesn't come with all the cool doodads. But, it does have an area for prep. I haven't looked at the stages lately. But, I'm figuring that this would be much cheaper. Thought I might mention it since I saw it.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Ticor stages knockoff.

  • kimiko232
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I just saw the price on galaxy. It's 369.99.

  • kimiko232
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Whoops. 399.00

    Here is a link that might be useful: Ticor

  • mamadadapaige
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Kimiko, I saw this one too. I think it knocks off the stages 33 sink ( and quite well!... I was immediately attracted to it). But the draw back is a 18.5 inch wide sink area. Too small for me. Ticor's website is very easy to navigate. One of the better sink sites- this morning was my first time ever viewing it-- majorly impressed and love the price. Only downside is it doesn't support US jobs (from what I've gathered on GW elkay is about nod of the only US made sinks).

  • mamadadapaige
    Original Author
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    thanks for the info on the wood top Breezy.

    I'm so glad you DID say something!! - I will take help wherever I can get it! It didn't occur to me to flip those zones (probably should have and this may be an indication that I am getting stuck in the forest without seeing the trees -- makes me wonder if I am missing some other genius idea!)... I think the people here on GW are so talented, observant and in tune.

    With my plan, I started out with so many different ideas of what to do and how to proceed, each having a different impact on the overall budget and each with good points and major compromises. The one thing I was never willing to compromise on was seating for four in the kitchen... this drove so much of the planning. I've been working on the plan in dribs and drabs where I can but have been so busy with work and the kids and trying to get contractors in here, selecting appliances, trying to keep the budget in check, etc. etc. -- I think I am getting close to being able to make a committment on some things. My current kitchen has one window over the sink hung so high I can barely see out of it. It has an awning over it so sheds very dim light into the kitchen - combine this with big flourescent tube lights and it is GRIM! Not a lot of space for me to work with the kids (one at a time is doable - with both, it's tough). My biggest goal for the completed kitchen is as much natural light coming in as possible along with plenty of space to have the kids working in there with me. I can hardly wait! Thanks again.

  • rococogurl
    12 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Must say, breezygirl's gorgeoso walnut counter is much different from what I was talking about in terms of maple butcher block. I haven't used Osmo but have used Waterlox and that makes a huge difference in the durability of a wood finish. I think a lot of these choices really hinge on what's needed for the family and lifestyle vs being purely aesthetic surface choices.

    Sounds like you're coming along mama -- that's great. (I did see your comment on your paint thread, hope you saw my follow.)