Thanks for replying to my thread Energywise.ks. I posted a reply there.

In response to your questions....
I set my heat pump lockout at none and my gas furnace at 25 degrees F. The only reason for this is so that I don't have to deal with the loud heat pump noise when sleeping at night. Else, I would keep it to its lowest settings.

I would also leave it to YES for "defrost with heat strip" for the reason that it will blow cold air into your house during defrost. Your heat pump will then have to re-heat the house you've just cooled during defrost. I struggled with this decision also and upon much research, this method was most efficient.

I'm amazed that your greenspeed was able to heat your house to 73 at 0 degrees outside!

I leave my min and max air flow to disabled so that the system will adjust accordingly.

My heat pump rpm is set to MAX which is 7000. The benefit would be to maximize performance.

How were you able to get your Energy Tracking to work? I have a new board on the HP but mine still does not work. I don't bother calling the dealer since I have little confidence in them.

Hello chillycold,

I tried the defrost in both modes and noticed I used 15 kw less per day with the strips off during defrost. The temp dropped to 72 only one time that I saw and never notice when it defrosts. I was also surprised the heat pump did so well at 0 especially when max rpm was set at 5000. In the service under installation it auto detected my equipment and did the airflow test for min max and static. I was wondering if the system setup airflow automatically or if the settings had to be set manually based on the test results. I am not sure how they got the energy tracker to work it always has since the install. I love getting daily feedback of changes I make.

This post was edited by Energywise.ks on Mon, Dec 9, 13 at 10:40

I don't know if the system auto detects but looking at your 2 ton HP spec in the carrier product document, it is rated at 5700 RPM for max speed heating. A mere 700 rpm shouldn't make a difference but you could try it since your energy tracker provides you with daily feedback.

The max rpm was set at 7000 but when I complained about the excessive noise they reduced it to 5000. I wasn't overly confident in their knowledge because as he was going through the settings he was unable to answer simple questions on how the settings might effect how the system operates...

This post was edited by Energywise.ks on Mon, Dec 9, 13 at 10:55

Finding a competent HVAC technician is most difficult to say the least.

There is a installation manual you can download. Here it is:

Here is a link that might be useful: installation manual

A more specific question on compressor rpm;

Even when it was 0 outside we could maintain 73 inside temp except after defrost which dropped inside temp but recovered easily. Watching the operating status screen it would ramp up to 100% for a couple minutes then taper down to 75% for about 25 min then a couple minutes at around 50% before it shuts down. If it didn't defrost it didn't even hit 100%.

If I still have extra capacity would it be a good idea to lower the max rpm? Is the variable rpm 40-100% based off the max rpm setting or would it just narrow the operating Window? For example would the minimum stay the same rpm at 40% and change the max 100% rpm to what I set? Would this improve efficiency ie less cycling? And would the compressor last longer because it not working as hard?

Operating heat pump only with no heat strips during defrost and handling the cold with ease...

We had another single digit low last night and decided to test a couple changes in my settings. I changed the defrost from auto to 120 min based on another member's good results and also reduced my compressor max rpm to 4800. Immediately I noticed an improvement in the noise level.

It got down to around 3 degrees and I also noticed slightly longer run times but on the operating status it would still run at 100% than slowly taper off until the system shut off. Still maintaining 73 in the house and I will see the result on daily electrical usage tomorrow. I have been getting 32 kilowatt per day on similar temps.

I conducted an opposite experiment last night. I set my max compressor rpm to 6500 but in order for the system to reach its maximum, I also needed to set my AC/HP air flow at MAX vice COMFORT. If your air flow is set to comfort, your compressor will never reach max rpm during heating. Carrier literature indicate that at max setting, airflow is set at 400 cfm per ton ensuring max performance.

So the ultimate question is, is there more savings by max performance with shorter heating run times or by lowering operation performance (via reduction of rpm) with longer run times?

But it seems one thing is certain, reduction in compressor rpm is directly proportional to reduction in noise level.

This post was edited by chillycold on Mon, Dec 9, 13 at 18:07

Chillycold did you see any result from your test? My unit ran longer cycles and the defrost seemed longer, probably as a result of the longer run time. So it increased the energy usage.

Now I set defrost back to auto and max rpm to 5700 as it states in the manual and see how that does. Keep me updated of you discover any settings that impact the efficiency.

It will be awhile before we have some more really cold days to see results but think I will leave the max rpm at 5700; "from the product manual", auto defrost, comfort heating, efficient cooling, and leave fan speeds disabled and let the system control fan speeds based off the installation. I still have heat strips disabled during defrost and heat source set on heat pump only. I will let the system learn these settings and have been getting good results. Highs are mid thirties and lows are in the teens and averaging 23 kilowatt hours per day usage. In the summer it is much lower costing me about 1 dollar every three days. At 8 cents per kilowatt hour.

The one change I would want is to be able to set the heat strip lockout lower! Currently the lowest is 5 degrees but I would like to set it at -5. I am not sure where the best place would be to voice my suggestion would be?

This post was edited by Energywise.ks on Thu, Dec 12, 13 at 1:02

How did you lock out heat strip during defrost mode??

On the service settings hit service and hold it till it turns green. About 10 sec. Then go to setup then heat source lock out. I set hp lockout at none electric heat lockout above 5 and defrost with electric heat as No. But I wish I could set the electric lockouts lower. For now under heat source under the normal menu I have it set as hp only instead of system in control.

My test was inconclusive as there was too much temperature fluctuation from the day before and my wife using the electric oven and the dryer.

I will leave mine on 6500 (for 4 ton), auto defrost (best setting IMO) with defrost with gas heat, max airflow for heating, and min/max airflow to disabled. I just upgraded my firmware but my energy tracking still does not work so I'm at a disadvantage in terms of monitoring actual KW/hr.

I'm currently dealing with another annoyance; one of my lineset is making a knocking noise (3 to 6 knocks) during defrost near the heat pump. I can't tell if it's the liquid tube line (smaller tube) or the suction tube line (larger tube). The line knocks only when defrosting. Please let me know if you have similar problems. I apologize in advance for asking this in your thread.

No problem about asking questions on my thread as I am wanting to hear about all problems and benefits of this system even though we have some size and application differences. Haven't heard the knocking you describe but my line set enters the basement and haven't had a chance to listen closely during a defrost. I will update when I can give a definitive answer.

I set up my set backs as follows;
Sleep 1030 pm 70
Wake 0930 am 71
Home 1100 am 72
away 70
Theory is that it will work less during the night when it is coldest out and make it comfortable when we are up around the house with one degree adjustments. This has worked better than a constant 72 degrees. I will post some picks of difference in energy usage on days with the same temps.

Before I went through settings.

After the changes

Looks like I will get a severe test of our 2 ton greenspeed's ability to heat our home. This Saturday we are to get light snow then the low on Sunday is supposed to plummet to -6 f with a windchill of around -22 f. I have the heat s trips locked out but can access the thermostat with my phone and I will see if carrier greenspeed heatpump can truly handle the worst of what Kansas winters can offer.

With current settings been averaging around 20 kwh per day and I will update how it performs on one of our coldest nights!

Well it made it without using the backup heat strips. Although it struggled a little bit and dipped to 67 over night set at 68 and took all day to hit the 73 set point during the day. But is was able to recover the energy usage was 45 kwh per day for the two days of the artic cold front. I was very surprised it was able to handle such cold weather! I am guessing our homes balance point is -3 degrees Fahrenheit. After that the heat pump starts to lose ground with each defrost because I have the backup heat off during defrost. And selected heat pump only for heat source.

Are those 20/45 kWh/day numbers for just the heating system?

We tend to run about 33 kWh/day during the spring and fall with just hot water (we have a DSH but obviously it's not doing too much when avg temp is in the 40-60's), whole house usage goes up to 45 kWh or so when temps start warming up in the summer (avg 75-80 but that includes some 90+ degree days, like a whole week of them this July), but really jumps (to 75 -82 kWh/day) when avg temps are below freezing (again that means some isolated nights below zero), typically in Feb but one winter it was in Jan - prob see the same this next bill.

Tranquility 27 049 with 2 Aux Heat strips, 2 279ft deep wells, I can't say what the EWT is right now (or typical Feb) but our water well is 500ft deep and the cold water tap is bone-numbingly cold if you turn it on in the AM.

Ajsmama,

Yes those numbers are off our thermostat for the daily energy usage of the heatpump system. 45 kwh is the highest I have seen and the temps were high 10 low -6 with windchill around -20. That is as cold as kansas gets, so it was a great load test of our new system.

Been averaging daily; 19 kwh winter, 3 kwh fall, and we are waiting to see how it does in the spring and summer.

Thanks - was just checking that wasn't for your whole house electricity usage. I don't have anything to compare ours to, no separate meter for heat/hot water. But for a family of 4 (with a teenage boy who runs XC and track, and a preteen girl who both like LONG hot showers!) and 2500sf 2 story house, attached (unfinished, fully vented) garage and walkup (unfinished, vented) attic I figured that wasn't bad. A lot of people with similar-sized houses and families around here spend within $50/mo of what we do (we're on budget plan to even out those huge bills in the winter) on electricity alone, and then have heat and sometimes even hot water with gas or oil so that more than eats up the "extra" $50/mo we spend on electricity. The people in my family (mostly aunts and uncles, so smaller households) who heat with wood or oil are aghast at what we spend, but they forget that they're spending $2000+ a year on oil, or having to buy wood ($200/cord) or cut it themselves. Of course CT has one of the highest electricity rates in the country, we've got a budget supplier (8cents/kWh) but "delivery" rate(s) are 7.25cents/kWh - it's actually come down, a couple of years ago I think we were paying 18c/kWh total.

So we only pay electricity and phone (which seems high at $50/mo considering we have no long distance service and only 1.5Mbps DSL), no cable TV. DH thinks we can save more $ by doing solar hot water instead of heating the final tank (we have a buffer tank the DSH dumps into) but we checked into that a couple of years ago, didn't get definitive numbers, would have had to cut a lot of trees on the south side of the house and I was afraid the (slight) decrease in our winter hot water heating bill wouldn't make up for increased cooling costs in the summer. The DSH provides all the hot water we need in the summer, the solar would have just helped keep the 2nd tank warm instead of using the electricity to maintain the 120F. I don't think solar would really have helped at all in the winter, even with cutting the trees.

I purchased a heat pump water heater which works pretty good but I also like a really hot shower so I have been trying to figure out whether it would be more efficient to put a point of use electric water heater as a booster.

For example current temp on the hpwh- is 135. The low flow shower temp is ok but still feels like it could be warmer. But at the sinks they get very hot. My idea is to set the hpwh-100 and the point of use at 135 so I have perfect shower temp but not having to keep the tank that hot 24/7. I think it would be more efficient but not sure.

Our goal is to get our house electric usage down to 500 kwh per month average and the install solar panels to cover 100%. This is not counting what our chevy volt uses which is an additional 200 kwh per month. But as we have only lived here for 3 months we are still evaluating and saving where we find waste.

Your numbers sound reasonable we only have two in the house and it is about half the size of yours. This was intentional when we built it as small as possible to reduce energy required to heat and cool.

My (GE) Heat Pump Hot Water Heater has a minimum permissible set point of 120 degrees - 120 is what I control at.

YMMV

This post was edited by saltidawg on Wed, Jan 8, 14 at 20:06

I also have the GE- HPWH. I am sure the minimum setpoint was less than 120 but will have to double check. 120 seems a little high for a minimum but I have only had it for 3 months and haven't tried turning it all the way down.

Which model is that? A guy DH works with needs to replace his hot water heater, DH told him to look at GeoSpring but I read that switches to electric below 45 degrees and while there is some residual heat from (propane? oil?) furnace in their basement, I don't know if it could drop below that temp with the GeoSpring down there, and a cold spell. I suggested tankless, whole-house tankless shouldn't be hard to install, or perhaps just replace with fossil-fuel powered one since they have the furnace anyway.

Hi All,

I have brand new 4 tone carrier INFINITY GREENSPEED 25VNA0 heat pump installed in Montreal, Canada ( pretty cold in the winter ) with a electrical furnace as backup. When the temp reach 1F, the heat pump create an extreme noise, I could here it from very far and from within the house. I called the installation company, and when the technician came to check, he lowered the RPM from 5700 to 5200. now the noise level reach 80 dba when the heat pump are running at 75% (of 5200rpm), I checked the heat pump doc and this seems to be not normal, a 4 ton HP running at 6300 should produce 76 dba.

The installer mentioned that they over dimensioned the heat pump and lower the RPM to reduce the noise. I would like to know if you guys did measure the noise on your heat pump when running at 100% ? that would help me get some stat. thank you

Energywise.ks,

"I also have the GE- HPWH. I am sure the minimum setpoint was less than 120 but will have to double check. ..."

Thanks, I learned something.

The Manual says the Default Temp Setting is 120 degrees and the user can set the Temp to anywhere up to 135 degrees. I (mistakenly) took that to mean that 120 degrees was the minimum.

I just went to my heater and found that I could set it lower in controlling temp. I leave it at 120 degrees as there is virtually no risk of scalding, but it keeps my wife happy!

It was nice to get info from someone that actually has one of these, lots of terrible info out there!

Thanks again for the info!

This post was edited by saltidawg on Fri, Jan 10, 14 at 12:09

Lemarin,

Did not have any way to measure the noise level but the first time the temp got down to 5 degrees it was loud enough I was also concerned. Mine was set at max rpm 7000. Which was to high for my 2 ton unit. 5700 is what it is set at now which is the recommended setting in the manual.

Your 4 ton should be capable of running 6500 rpm and anything less is going to reduce your available heating capacity. This may not be an issue if you unit can still maintain setpoint down to 0 degrees without backup heat. If it can't you are missing out on some efficiency. They measure sound from a certain distance from the unit and yours could be louder based on system charge and the way your line set is run. Also I have heard of muffler placement and I think my contractor mentioned adding an additional muffler?

All heat pumps are loud when heating below freezing but this new one is definitely louder than the comfort model we had at our last house.

This post was edited by Energywise.ks on Sat, Jan 11, 14 at 2:32

Saltidog,

With the help of this forum in the plumbing thread I found that my problem with my shower temp was the anti-scald adjustment. After changing it I was able to reduce my GE heatpump water heater to 122 and have perfect hot water in the shower. I am sure I will see savings from changing it from 135 to 122. I read that much below that temp legionnaires disease can breed in the tank.

Thanks energywise.ks. When the heat pump was running at 5700 rpm, and when it was cold (-20C or -4F), the noise level was extreme, I could hear the noise from 60 meters. It was absolutely not normal. The solution the installer had is to reduce the rpm which will reduce the heat output of the Heatpump.

I do measure noise using an iPhone app.... FYI

When you say 0 degrees is it C or F?

I have a muffler installed, and at -15c I see sometimes the electric furnaise element number 1 kick in. The installation guys are telling me that noise is normal and they over dimensioned my system ( my house needs only 3.2 ton) to 4 ton so that they could reduce the rpm to lower the noise level.

I am not convince with their answer, I wanted to check with other homeowner what noise level there greenspeed heatpump produce ? That would help me assess the situation and decide what to do. Thank you

Lemarin,

I downloaded an app from android to measure mine but it won't be cold enough for awhile. I would not buy into their reason for turning down the rpm. I oversized because my manual j was figured for cooling and wanted some extra capacity for winter.

Fyi all my temps are F not C.

The whole sales pitch was better heating capabilities because it can over speed the compressor to handle lower temps than a normal heat pump. If they are limiting the rpm than why did we spend so much for this technology?

If you set your rpm to the max from the manual than you will use less backup heat; or possibly like me never need it until the compressor breaks down with the right size and settings. That's why I paid the premium price. I would make them address the noise another way. That's my opinion...

Will update on how many db mine is.

Hi Energywise.ks,

Here is few measures :
temp = 0F, noise=82dba (one inch away from the heat pump)
temp=-14F, noise=80dba (one inch away from the heat pump)

I realized that when the temp goes below -1F, both the heatpump and the furnace (stage 1, one elemenet) are working. I am not sure if it is quite efficient to have both furnace and heat pump working ? that could explain that the noise was lower at -14F, since the heat pump was getting help from the Furnace to heat the house, hence had to work less.

Thanks
BR

Lemarin,

I am considering installing a 3-ton greenpseed here in Nova Scotia and was wondering if you got your noise issue resolved?

Hola,

I have a 3 ton greenspeed that heats a well insulated 2400 2 story home here in South Carolina.
ceilings r40, walls 7 inch log and floors are 2 story
we use a woodstove for suppl. heat in the evenings.
I have been trying to maximize my efficiency with this greenspeed.
I have changed with settings to heatpump only which dropped the usage for 80 -100 on 20 degree nights
to 40 -50

I then lowered the heatstrips down from 25- 19 and now will try at min. setting of 5
I have set the defrost off strips to no for elec. heat.
we will have several nights in the 30's so i'm curious to see what the usage will be. We keep the temp at 70 while at home and 64 when we go to work.
I am also adding 700 square feet to rockwool insulation r 25 next week. My goal is lower usage as low as inhabitants of 5 will permit. and then in a few years add solar panels.
thanks for sharing how to change the settings.

Lemarin: i also have a 4 Ton Greenspeed 3 hrs outside Mtl. I called my service guys due to high noise ( constant ) at high RPM on cold days. they found a 2 inch ice build up on bottom from ice storm and defrost cycles. the ice was wrapped on every pipe to the compressor. my sound meter measure 85 db while specs say 73 db. We used hot water hose from HWT to melt and noise dropped down to spec. They are also trying to troubleshoot a repeating code 79 from the pump (no compressor pump event) ( I suspect reversing valve switch). My unit will supply heat at 21.5 C for 2700 sq.ft house till -20C where it switches to propane furnace. ( MN7 has code 35 reappearing - they're also presently troubleshooting this intermittent problem.
Seems like Carrier return support calls for our Cdn techs doesn't get back to them for 3-7 days these days !!!!!!! Not good for Carrier customers.

My solitary high noise compressor day was also due to ice build-up at the bottom. We had snowy frigid conditions followed by a rainy afternoon warm-up and then a snowy deep freeze. It got loud! So loud that my next door neighbor even complained. Basically the ice no longer allows the pipes to be isolated from the unit.

After getting some hot water on the bottom, the unit was back to its optimal noise specs. Even running at 6500RPM the unit is fairly quiet, thanks also in part due to overcompensation with the snow legs and anti-vibration pads.

Currently we're having another record breaking polar vortex winter in NY. My four-ton is having little problem keeping my 2100sqft house at 67F/19.4C during 17F/-8.3C outdoor temperatures with very infrequent defrost cycles. Only below 8F/-13.3C does efficiency drop and it starts going into defrost much more.

Although, the other night it was 1F/-17.2C and the heatpump did an extremely admirable job. So far, I haven't needed to use my gas boiler as a backup a single time. Overall avoiding heatstrip installation seemed to be a good decision. I've only needed any heatstrips at night around 2-3 times this unusually cold winter.

Apparently in MAX mode, the compressor is set for 400cfm per ton, in efficiency it's set for 350cfm. However only COMFORT mode acts on-demand to ramp up the compressor based on current temperature and humidity.

Currently I have the heatpump running in EFFICIENCY mode, which seems to be the best of both worlds in above freezing temps. In sub-freezing temps, I set it to COMFORT and it immediately ramps up to 100%.

It's currently 41F outside and the house is set to 67F/19.4C , the compressor is at 79% at 3400RPM using exactly 3200W. Yesterday (using EFFICIENCY mode) it cost me $6.51 (at .25 a kwh) to heat the house to 67F/19.4C during the day and 60F/15.5C at night with an average hourly outdoor temp of 29F/-1.4C.

BTW, my system just downloaded and installed the latest Infinity Touch version 131483-12 software...

The changes in the release note are:

1) Expanded CFM and static pressure control a) Works with new indoor unit blower systems b) new airflow verification screens.

2) Expanded heatpump charging capabilities

3) More indoor coils added to the system configuration

4) Added 13kBTUH size for Infinity 18VS

5) Updates to several service and installation screens.

My biggest disappointment is the Carrier Infinity Touch still doesn't have as robust a temperature reporting tool as other smart thermostats, including Carrier's own Cor.

Hi All, cocobob, eduardok,

My
noise issue still persisted, so i called the installing company, and asked them
to change the inverter + electronic board as suggested by an other forums
member. The noise is lesser but we did not have -13F ( -25C) to put the system
to test. One thing I realised is that the RPM does not go beyond 3000 RPM and
the thermostat is showing the heat pump running at 75% (although the 4T can go
much higher – 6500RPM I believe). I also realised that the auxiliary heat (
electric furnace in my case) sometime start while the heat pump did not reach
75% ramp up. I think something fishy going on, may be the installing company
replaced my 4T inverter with 5T inverter (I am guessing on). Anyway the system
does not behave as before, less noise with less RPM. The ultimate test would my
electricity bill, if that is going up compared to last year, I will go after
the installing company.

That is the update so far. If you folks have some ideas on what
could have caused the RPM to be limited to 3000 on the heat pump without that
the installer toch the thermostat, let me know ( the thermostat is still
showing 5500 RPM as max for the heat pump).

BR

Yes there are settings in service setup that can put a limit to your rpm thus reducing the pump's heating abilities when it gets cold Make sure no limits are on at max then do a heat pump check in service menu options to see if it reaches 7000 rpm as it should

The other day to fix Ice buildup from defrost cycles they move the temp sensor down more and to a smaller pipe near the distributor No ice build up since with lows of -12 c

Still get code 35 for gas furnace and Carrier engineers know of common com

I personally would call Carrier and escalate this with them if you aren't completely satisfied with your certified installer.

I am actually very happy with my installers it's their support service they get from carrier that disappoints me I suspect USA support lines do not take Canadian support calls as a priority

What does it cost to run your Infinity? I have a three year old Arcoaire that costs me about $900 a month to heat my 1,800 SF house (and we don't turn the thermostat past 64). I'm really regretting buying a house with a heat pump.

The new Greenspeed technology heats my 2800sqft house to 71.5F in cold Canada down to -20C / -4F in weather (then go to Greenspeed infinity propane furnace below that automatically Last year total heating and summer long air conditioning cost me $2200 in total Well worth my initial investment w a quick ROI compared to my old oil furnace

Answer to Brad: I m located in Quebec, the weather is quite cold here, also the electricity cost is very low compare to the rest of north america, so comparing to me might not be very useful. I would suggest that you compare your electricity consumption with you neighbors ( ask your neighbor) or colleagues at work, that would give a better idea how your heat pump performing, try also to find out if your your utility company has a tool in there web site where you can compare your consumption with your peers. Hydro Quebec (our only utility company) has tool that gave me how efficient my home versus similar sizes home.

Brad - I will add to my above post in Ontario hydro avg cost is .17c per kW/h and propane this year is .64/litre (last winter propane went as high as $1.27 /litre ) The Infinity Greenspeed is the best as it gets heat down to .-20 Celcius while standard heat pump can only go down to -5Celcius

This is a really old thread. It might be better had you
started your own new thread. Reading some of this thread from the
beginning before realizing it’s almost 4-years old leaves me feeling that I
have no interest in your situation.

IMPO

SR