it's a good idea, according to most people, if my sense of what others think is correct.

Maybe you've seen me explain that we did this once. It sounds really good in theory, but didn't work for us in reality.

Scenario #1: You have the dishes dishwasher 2/3 full and only a few things for the cooking dw, won't you want to put those few things in the first dishwasher and get it going?

Scenario #2: You have a big bowl to go in the dishes dishwasher, but the space remaining is too small to fit it in...BUT in the cooking dishwasher you have room for the bowl IF you move a small cooking tool to the dish dishwasher...

Scenario #3: You've been SO good at only loading the cooking utensils in the cooking dishwasher and keeping the dish dishwasher for plates, etc. BUT because you don't have as many cooking utensils as dishes, the dishes dishwasher has run daily, but it's taken a few days to fill the cooking dishwasher. Meanwhile things you've wanted to use are still dirty, and at the worst, getting smelly and possibly growing mold waiting to be washed. (This happens faster than you might think, I'm embarrassed to admit.)

And so on. As soon as you do start to make allowances to get the dishwashers properly filled and running ASAP, the dishes and cooking utensils are all mixed up and in the 'wrong' dishwasher, so you can't find them. And it was a lot more work to load the 2 dishwashers as you went back and forth around the island to get them both loaded, using the spaces as efficiently as possible. I find it MUCH easier to be able to load and arrange them both from one spot, even if it means carrying the cooking utensils back to the cooking area.

I'm just not sure it's possible to absolutely restrict yourself to using one dishwasher for certain things and one for the other stuff. Your experience may be different than mine...

Thanks Rhome I value your input and experience. I hope you dont think Im trying to be difficult just trying to see this through.

Would using drawers perhaps on the cooking side help with some of these issues? I would want to run the cooking stuff nightly the dishes can wait until full as long as there are cleans ones to eat from! More Fiestaware!

I'm so glad Rhome410 spelled out the scenarios. They kept me from separating our dishwashers.

We ended up flanking a 36" cleanup sink with our dishwashers. We have an open ended U kitchen with cleanup on one long side, range & cooktops at the bottom of the U, island with prep sink in the middle, and refrigerators, microwave, & pantry on the other side. We try to use the dishwasher closest to the range for cooking & prep items, and the other one which is closer to the breakfast & dining areas for dishes. However, we do have overflows into the other dishwasher, depending on whether we're entertaining or doing a big cooking project or whatever. When clean items come out, they're either put away into the island drawers opposite, overhead cabinets, or piled onto the island for grouping & transport to where they belong. This is very efficient. Also, we try to alternate our dishwashers to keep them somewhat equally "exercised" and smelling sweet; separating them would make this much more difficult.

While I see rhome's points I have to totally disagree.

Modern DW's are so economical that they use less water than filling up your sink.

Also I seem to make one helluva mess when I cook and by the time I am done cooking and the meal is done being eaten I have often run BOTH DW's at least twice.

I've also been known to run a less than full DW on the same premise that they use less water than washing by hand and less energy too (mine included) if I let them airdry when done.

If you can get past having to have a full DW to run a load I would definitely do what you plan.

Added incentive to do it your way is your barrier island. The way your set up is, you will have to schlepp everything dirty to the other side of the island (or just yourself if you can reach across), pack the DW, run it and then do it all in reverse.

In addition, all those dirty pots, pans and utensils will probably make your counter dirty on the journey across (or the floor if you have to carry them all and they drip) and wet on the journey back if they are not 100% dry so both times you will have to polish the counter as well.

While I love my kitchen, the one teensy tiny regret I have was not doing what you are planning. Had we put one DW at the end of the peninsula facing the oven, we would have had access to it from both the prep and clean up area. The form part would have meant having the prep sink visible from the front door. In this case I went with form over function and in the end do not really regret it. Right now the two DWs are opposite each other with one next to the prep sink and the other next to the cleanup sink but we do need to walk around the peninsula to put dirty stuff in the DWs and clean stuff back where it belongs.

I don't at all think you're being difficult! I think you should try to examine all directions and all points of view to get the kitchen right for you. I just tried this once and would NEVER do it again, it failed so miserably for us. And, Loves2cook...The fact that I completely agree that handwashing is inefficient use of energy and water (and my time) makes the argument stronger for me. A lot of people handwash pots and pans, but we only do that with cast iron. Anyway, good to have different views and see whose lifestyle fits closest with yours, Jeri.

One separation option that may work is if you have a butler's pantry type china and glassware storage with an associated DW and sink. One dishwasher becomes the default dishwasher and the butler's pantry associated DW becomes the secondary or overflow dishwasher.

One paired option that may work (which could be very confusing unless you can keep it straight) is 'alternating' dishwashers: one is Clean and one is Dirty...and some things, like daily use glasses and silver rarely get put in a drawer--they are either removed from the "clean" dishwasher when needed or put in the "dirty" dishwasher. So some things, in essence, are "stored" in one DW or the other--whichever of the two is "clean" that cycle. I think everyone would have to be completely in synch with this one for it to work.

I routinely suggest double DW's for most medium to large kitchens. 90% of the time, they flank the cleanup sink. There have been a few occasions when the customer wanted the 2nd DW closer to the prep zone and what I've done if possible is to make it be on the opposite side of the main DW but in the island next to the prep sink, opening towards the cleanup sink. Yes, that can "trap" the cleanup person between the 2 DW's and lead to some water spilled on the floor, but if you're going to separate the two, keeping them as close as you can in the overlap of the cleanup and the prep zone tends to work functionally better than having each be inside it's own zone with no overlap.

rhome, that is what is so wonderful about this forum, all the different points of view and hearing what works and doesn't work for people and why. I remember we were planning our kitchen and you either were the same time or finished before us and I was so impressed by your zones.

Coming to this forum really made me think about thinks in a completely different way and I spent many many hours thinking how we would be using the new kitchen. On the advice of someone here, we got appliance boxes from a local store and set up a mock kitchen in the garage with a floorplan as close as we could get to our plan. DH and I walked through cooking a number of meals; him baking me cooking; me cooking, him baking; me baking, the kids helping; getting the food to the table and cleaning up. I can tell you for sure that I ran into many objections running this exercise - there were a lot more appealing things to do with that time.

However now that we are finished and living in and using our kitchen, dh totally is on board with the fact that that was time well spent (in fact I heard him telling some friends of ours about to start a remodel to do the same thing.) As a result I have a kitchen that, like yours, not only looks great but actually is very functional with economy of movement and also meets the requirement of being able to accomodate multiple cooks.

We knew going in that the DW placement was not optimal for us but in this case looks definitely took precident over function so it is what it is.

Live_wire_oak, our DWs are placed exactly as you suggest. In fact they cannot be open at the same time because the doors overlap and because they are so close together we just fill the first, whichever that one happens to be till it is full, then run it while continuing to pack the second. Sometimes, during a dinner party or a big family event, both DWs run while we're eating (and the second one may not be full but I know I'll need the space later) and then when the guests leave, I unpack both and then pack and run with the dinner dishes, sometimes one, sometimes both.

The truth of the matter is that while I wish we'd set it up your way, I'm living more like rhome and in all honesty it's not so bad. For all I know, had I done it the other may, we may or may not be regretting that as well.

Jeri, you need to think and think again and plan where everything will be stored, and how you will be using it and where you will be using it. The more thought that goes into how YOU will use YOUR kitchen, the more informed your decision will be. In the end you may decide that your cleanup habits can work with DWs in totally different areas or you may decide to put them in the same zone. Only you can ultimately know what will work best for you.

It would be really interesting if you came back and told us what you decided to do and how it works for you in a year or so when you are all done.

I have my 2 flanking the clean up sink in an arrangement that sounds similar. When I was looking at moving the cooktop out of the island and to the far wall, one hesitation I had was that it would mean taking my pots and pans, baking clean up and such around the island. Folks here (I remember Sweeby and one of our chefs in particular) didn't seem to be as concerned about it and their points seemed valid. I thought about putting the second DW or a DW drawer in my island but didn't both because I would have had to sacrifice other function if I did (island isn't a huge one) and because as I thought through the daily function, I pretty much came to the same conclusions as rhome's experiences.

Having lived with it now, it is very easy for me to either gather up things and walk around with them, usually all at once, or to put them on the island and then get them from the other side. The prep sink still functions as a landing spot when we are working on the cooking/baking side of the island, but I can then reach those items in the prep sink from the other side and move them to the clean up area with a simple pivot. When you are moving things from table to food storage and clean up, it seems like part of the process -- moving everything to the cleanup area. It also keeps the wettest stuff and most likely drips in one area. And there is the fact that I don't enjoy the cleanup part so much that I'd want to feel like I got to do it in one spot and then go do it all over again in the other.

Putting a DW in the island facing the cleanup sink wasn't even a consideration -- wouldn't have worked at all for us.

Now it appears we weren't so far apart in opinion as you thought, Loves2cook! :-) As long as you can reach them both from standing in, basically, one spot, I have no problem with them being part of 'different zones.' (I'd rather be able to open both at once, of course.) It's not a necessity that they flank the sink, it's the idea of running to different places in the kitchen, around the island, etc. that I am against.

I haven't seen, or don't remember well enough, your layout Jeri to know exact locations. Loves2cook mentioned schlepping dirty things 'to the other side of the island.' If you set things on the island in front of you as you finish with them, will you be able to grab them off from the other side to load the dw? So it's only you that has to move, you won't really have to carry around the dirty stuff? And then when you unload, you'll set all the cooking stuff on the island and then go around to distribute it into the proper drawers? I think there are always adjustments to make in new layouts. As I said, all my baking supplies and tools are on the other side of my island from the dishwashers. I try to gather things in batches by location and take them all at once...or in as few trips as possible. I guess I love my kitchen and the work room I have so much that the little bit of extra walking is not a problem.

I don't have a dog in this hunt: One DW has always been enough for me. But I do know crazy making kitchens.

Unlike Loves2cook4six, Jeri is, if I'm not mistaken, talking about a second DW in a different aisle from the other DW, with a barrier island (her words) in the way.

I think the problem, more than the dishwashers, is the barrier island!

As others have pointed out, a lot of the same prep and cooking utensils get used over and over, even during one day, let alone long enough to have enough to run a whole dishwasher?

I totally get the whole use in place, wash in place ethos, but does it work?

Let's say you cook an old fashioned breakfast. A saucepan of oatmeal, with stirring spoon, a griddle with meat, pancakes, or whatever, using a spatula and fork. Cut fruit with knife and board. Cook a lunch with a griddle for sandwiches and a saucepan for soup. And a spatula and wooden spoon, cutting board for the veggies plus knife. Dinner salad fixings and cooked veg, cutting board, knife, saucepan for rice, stirring spoon, meat board for cutting up chicken, poultry shears, pan.

When do you run the DW? Do you have half a dozen cutting boards for once a day? A few prep knives? (Assuming you put these in the DW.) How many saucepans? And spatulas?

Perhaps for your way of living having double and triple of everything and running a moderately populated DW once a day, makes good sense.

Otherwise, won't you be tempted to put the breakfast dishes in with the cooking items? Feed the family, fill your plate, eat while it's hot, carry all dishes to the cleanup sink and fill DW, walk around to prep sink and do the pans, etc. I would hate that!! And the kids won't always be around to divide up the tasks, and sometimes the husband has to run--or you do. I'm a clean as you cook-er, but I'm not letting the food get cold doing the dishes at the end, and there isn't always time to put away the ones in the middle while cooking either. And if you leave it to another family member are you sure they're going to be perfectly trained to do these dishes here and those dishes there? My menfolk would remove the spare DW while I was out to get rid of that one!

Maybe you could have the second DW opening on the cleanup side of the island, so that you could fill it from the island without having to carry things across, and unload it onto the island so you only have to go around once. Then if things did get into the other DW it would be easy to sort out.

Or maybe a drawer dishwasher would suit in the cooking area so that you could just run a little load of cooking utensils, midday, and let the rest of the day's dishes accumulate in the bigger DW?

Or maybe rethink the kitchen layout, and make the whole works of the kitchen on one aisle. That is, stove and fridge on the wall, clean up sink and dishwasher(s) across from them on the island. Either a single sink, or even what I just saw in a magazine picture, a cleanup sink and prep sink both, with a few feet of workspace between them. Center the prep area on the window if the view is pretty. Then the whole other aisle can be for storage and extra work areas. I could really like a kitchen like that. That way you get all the function of a galley, instead of all the pain of a barrier.

I have an L shaped kitchen with DW to the right of the clean up sink on one leg, the range, fridge and ovens on the longer leg and an island with 2nd DW to the left of prep sink ( parallel to the range wall). This seems to work just the way live_wire_oak is describing. I can stand between the two DWs and have access to the cabinets where the majority of things end up.

While I tend to load dishes and glasses in the first dishwasher (which is right next to the kitchen table, too), and prep items like bowls, cutting boards etc. in the island DW, there is considerable overlap with things going into both DWs. Considering I never had 2 DWs in all the years before this, I end up filling both more quickly than I would have imagined. The proximity of the dishwashers to one another does make fitting things in where they can go much easier.

Although I haven't used this feature yet, my Bosch DW has a rinse and hold feature - you can rinse the food soil off of a partial load and then hold until there is a full load. Also- cleanup goes a lot faster because I don't have to handwash the items that don't fit.

I have dish drawers and would not use one strictly planning on washing pots. I'd go for a traditional dw first.

You can't put really tall things in drawers - like oven racks. When you have big pots, you can only fit two or three pots in the drawer - after you've removed all the rack accessories and the silverware basket. Imho, they don't clean pots well, either. We constantly handwash crud off before or after running pots.