I suggest you employ a professional here. You are too close to the problem and not at all objective. Listen to someone who has done thousands of kitchens. It won't hurt.

Any suggestions on where to look in Colorado or even online?

Maybe your brain is vapor locked from being up to your eyeballs in it. I've had to step away just to be able to think clearly again... at least a couple times.

Can't imagine why a window couldn't fit somewhere. What kind of layout have you got that doesn't allow for at least one window somewhere? Not even over the sink? I'm confused at what the H you're working with.

Do you have a plan that you can show us?

Start with the NKBA website. Also ask others on GW who've completed kitchens in your area for recommendations.

Here is a link that might be useful: NKBA

I'm holding my breath for a recommended KD in our area.

I haven't scanned anything new in though I have countless pics that I've printed off layout around the house.

I would consider this layout in the following pic but actually upon trying to put windows in, I came across a layout that I prefer but my DH prefers this one.

Even if we were to go with this one (which I would to get windows), it feels "heavy" when everything in the area is very open. I'm not sure if it truly is, or it's the IKEA software that is making it look that way.

Sorry in advance about the sizing.

Switch the wall cabinets to white. But I'm not crazy about the two squat windows. Smaller but taller windows and more cabinetry would look more balanced. Your windows do NOT have to have the same top alignment height across the board. They should actually be aligned as high in the wall as possible in order to let in more light. That usually results in them being taller than the doorways. And that is the correct classic way to align windows. The Modern Ecclectic version of having everything top align results in odd and unfriendly interior results because the windows aren't tall enough.

Yes, that cabinet across the top feels very heavy. Like a giant unibrow with the windows being glarey robot eyes. Not friendly.

It feels too heavy because of the strong horizontal line across that top of the wall. Break it up with different cabinetry above and including the range hood surround. The drawing of the range hood looks dinky compared to the mass of dark cabs, and also serves to emphasis the beetle-browed aspect of the line of cabs. You don't need to run the little glassed cabs across the whole run!

You also have a slight (but common so it doesn't really look bad to our eyes) design solecism in that you have chosen a restaurant-y looking metal, angular fan surround and paired it with all those highly cabinet-ty, even Crafstman-esque cab fronts. I think the fan would look much better with wooden, built-up type, shelf-ish mantle over-dressing and may be plain wall built out around the vent above it.

Can you change the height/width ratio of the windows so they are more vertical and narrow and then make two, unconnected, cabs on the outer sides of the windows? You can lighted/glassed-in sections above each w/o having to have a bridge between them. The other nearby window has a different l x w ratio - it looks to me that you have chosen to have the same width of the panes but the kitchen ones are truncated because they start above the counter top. You can use the same relative ratio but make the windows different dimensions. It will look much better - at least from the inside. Consider well what any change to fenestration will also do to the exterior elevation.

Take a break. Look at this again tomorrow. Go out to eat in the meantime. Take in a movie.

L.

the horizontal cabinets near the ceiling need clearance for the door to open upwards, they cannot be flush to the ceiling.

Live Wire Oak, something I didn't mention was that though we want windows, we don't want to loose the focal point of the area which is on the existing windows that have a view. Since some of the windows have a transom type (not exactly) window above some of them we could take the windows higher. When we tried that though, the cabinets around them looked the worst of most of our possibilities.

I'm not sure what you meant by "and that is the correct classic way to align windows". Almost (not all) windows that I see in homes and on Houzz, the windows inevitably have the same distance from ceiling to the top of the window.

Live Wire Oak, something I didn't mention was that though we want windows, we don't want to loose the focal point of the area which is on the existing windows that have a view. Since some of the windows have a transom type (not exactly) window above some of them we could take the windows higher. When we tried that though, the cabinets around them looked the worst of most of our possibilities.

I'm not sure what you meant by "and that is the correct classic way to align windows". Almost (not all) windows that I see in homes and on Houzz, the windows inevitably have the same distance from ceiling to the top of the window.

Here's a "depressing" finished look with a layout I love. I'm OK with decreasing the width of the windows as long as I can reasonably look out. This one doesn't have a vent with it yet (nor the finishing around the frig).

As I was going through my MANY, MANY, and I mean MANY iterations of layouts, here's a prime example how nice no windows looks. It boggles my mind, how IMO this can look great but if I exchange the glass cabinets out with windows, it's "missing" something. (We'd actually keep the island chairs on the long side). Grrrrr

You must have the windows. I like the 2 pillars on either side of the cooktop with the windows. Then you could really take out the little bit of counter on the other wall and do great storage.

Sixtyohno, I really want the windows but nothing I've come up with (no matter how many times I've put it aside) seems to look right.

Actually that "little bit of counter" is about 54" wide. I was targeting it for a lowered baking area.

in the pic with the sink centered why not install the window over the sink?

Sorryabout the 54". It looks so much smaller on the plan. Suppose you get rid of the piece across the top, make the windows taller and thinner as live-wire suggested and get a glass and stainless hood. Some of them look like sculptures. My budget was shot by the time we got to the hood, so we stayed simple. Here is my symmetrical side of the kitchen before the backsplash. I think you have more room than I do. The door to the living room is adjacent to the ovens. The ovens next to the door is not a problem. If there are people in the house when the oven is on, I leave the door open so no one will crash into the oven door should it be open. Hope this helps a little. Beleive me, it will all work out and you will get a wonderful kitchen.

This post was edited by sixtyohno on Sat, Jan 26, 13 at 20:24

That's actually a cooktop. Out of frustration we thought of moving the cooktop back onto the island but haven't conceded to that YET.

Maybe cabinets in front of windows?

[Contemporary Kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/contemporary-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2103) by Austin Architect Chioco Design

[Traditional Kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by San Diego Interior Designer Robeson Design

Sixtyohno, Your kitchen looks great! It looks like you have 8' ceilings, which for us would make things look a lot better. I like the idea of kitchen having that built in look like yours, but having to take cabinets to a 9' ceiling (especially if we use dark cabinets) gives a very foreboding feeling.

Just like your underestimation of the other wall, I'm beginning to wonder if IKEA's software doesn't always give us an accurate representation of what the end product will be. That said, we can create great ones w/o the windows.

Though, I'm crazy close to the end design, I think I'm going to have to put my efforts to finding a kitchen designer. My apprehension is unmistakable though when I read countless posts from those posting their sub par designs that they got from their kitchen designers to only be torn to pieces on this forum.

IKEA software did a fairly accurate job for me.

I really like the look oh the post you made on Sat, Jan 26, 13 at 18:12.

Are you using IKEA cabinets? There are some tricks you can do to make the layout look more custom.

Have you considered putting glass front cabinets with mirrors installed in the back of the cabinet? I did that with my glass front cabinet and it reflects my view from the backyard and brightens up the interior of the cabinet significantly. I agree, your non-window layout doesn't seem as forced.

I'm note sure what the issue is. With a little imagination this is more than doable with a window or two.

Why not just put one large and tall window in the middle with the sink there and the stove top on the island?

Or put a middle window in, move the range to the far left side, and put some cabinets in towards the right?

I don't understand these small upper cabinets that are like glorified shelves, they look out of place. And 9 foot ceilings are an asset, not an obstacle to be worked around.

I'm not quite sure why you are being so rigid...let your imagination flow!

Would it be so bad to switch the sink and cooktop? Maybe the windows are too narrow with the cooktop on the wall. I think your second plan would work well, if you put the sink under a big window and moved the cooktop to the island.

Detroit Burb, do tell on how to make a more custom look with IKEA.

Grlwprls. sounds like a neat idea. Directly across from the wall I'm trying to "fix" though has just an ordinary look so wouldn't reflect much. In our bedroom we put a mirror up that reflected our view of the windows and it was beyond awesome.

Krykek, if you only saw the countless pics I have of saved kitchens, I think you may not think I am that rigid. I've got a lot of outside the box kitchens designs but none seem right. I've run out of ideas. I'll tweak one of the plans (similar to what you described) and see if I can make it look nicer. The more dramatic window may look nice in a more closed off kitchen but I'm not sure though it would work in an open floor plan where we want the focal point to be the superior viewing area in the great room. The 9' kitchens that I've seen, seem to typically be white or too dark for my taste. Since we'll be putting in another kitchen in our walkout someday, we thought we should keep the upstairs one more formal (for us that means dark). The 9' ceilings so seem to be an asset for the most part. I'm wondering if not having an "end" between the kitchen and dinette that is throwing me off.

Considering I'm gaining very little upper cabinets, I'm beginning to think a wall of windows may just be the way to go. I'm a bit nervous about the western exposure but being that we'll be using the lower level kitchen during the summer, perhaps I shouldn't be concerned. What's not to love about the kitchen below.

I went around in circles for what seemed like forever for our 3 backyard patios. Though it turned out WONDERFUL it was not fun planning. I swear this house is going to finish me off.

[Contemporary Kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/contemporary-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2103) by San Francisco Architect Studio Sarah Willmer

OMG That is the most gorgeous kitchen ever. I am blown away. Can you do that? Do you have enough room for the fridge, ovens and storage on the big side wall? I love the cabinets. It is so simple and elegant.

What about putting the window behind the cooktop?

[Traditional Kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Dallas Design-build Ellen Grasso & Sons, LLC

If blinding western light is an issue, maybe glass that has blinds between the panes?

Here is a link that might be useful: [Lots more windows over stoves on Houzz[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/window-over-stove-phbr0lbl-bl~l_55761)

Sixtyohno, we could totally do it. When I shared pics though I got a lot of comments like "where you going to store everything". I heard it enough where it gave me a lot of doubts. Though we plan to stay here for good, I thought perhaps we were "ruining" our home.

The more I think about it I thrive with a lot of windows. Everyday at work, when I go by the commercial kitchen, I drool with envy of the large bank of windows. When one of the cooks saw me, she said she too just loves working in the kitchen because of the windows. I can hardly imagine having to see that every day at work and then coming home to no windows. I think I would forever regret it.

I've relooked at some of the topless renditions and I can't help but still have a longing for them. They looked great when I initially did them, and still do. I've read so many times on GW when others pushed ahead of the naysayers about not doing something, in my case topless. They don't seem to regret it and I can't imagine I would either.

For some reason I like the look of the range with the vent on the exterior wall with windows on the side more then a bank of windows. I think it's because the vent goes to the ceilings. Having a transom type window would look nice too but with a western exposure, whether we put up roman shades or faux blinds, we'd be covering up the transom portion anyway. Perhaps I will go and talk with a window salesperson and see what window options they could suggest. I'm sure they have seen it all. Being that the windows would be the jewelry of the wall, I'm sure they can give me great suggestions.

Laughable, thanks for pics. I'll keep that in mind when we go in.

Thanks for everyone's help!

I like the range on the exterior wall too. You can put windows on both sides of the range, skip the two flanking uppers, and do the look you had on Jan 26, 13 at 17:27, just without the horizontals and without the flanking uppers. Then you'd have a substantial windows, the range, then more window. If you tile behind the range all the way to the ceiling, or do something cool like a one piece glass backsplash, you will have a unified column between the windows and it could look simple and modern.

The side wall with the built in fridge, second oven, and pantry is also simple and modern looking, if you have the budget for a built-in panel fridge, all the better.

I really love that first island with white cabinets surrounded by the darker ones. Do you plan for seating at the island? you have seating in one picture, no seating in another.

It looks like you will have ample space for storage, you don't need uppers in a large kitchen with well planned out storage.

To customize IKEA, you need a talented carpenter, and a vision of what you want before he arrives on scene.

You can use end panel material over the tall cabinet bank to bridge the gap to the ceiling, and then get moldings to match the rest of the house and paint/stain to match your cabinets and trim it out with that. IKEA also has simple moldings you can use to trim it out. With your design, you will not need much filler, so it is easier to achieve a custom look with off the shelf cabinets.

Anyway, keep posting different pictures, and you will get lots of feedback, and help here - the people that frequent here are very talented and generous with help as you can see!

aloha-Last night when we were posting about no uppers and a bank of windows, I was so cold and tired, that I forgot that I have only 1 and a 1/2 uppers on my window wall. I think your kitchen is bigger than my 11'7" x 13', but we do fine for storage. I do have a freezer in the garage and shelves that hold some things like the ice cream machine that we that we don't use very often. Right now the sun is hitting the snow crystals outside my kitchen windows and it is gorgeous.

If you have the space for it (meaning enough storage elsewhere), I would definitely go for the windows.
In my 85% completed kitchen, besides the improved layout, my 2nd most loved thing are my 5 windows. It changed/improved the kitchen tremendously.

Not yet painted molding:
(that's my Kraus faucet wrapped up)

I did Ikea Ramsjo black/brown base cabs, w/ white upper flanking hood (you can see the left one to the right of the windows).

I like the 1st layout, but just do the 2 uppers flanking the 2 windows, but not thing else. Too many little cabinets.
What hood are you getting?

Good luck.
Amanda

Sixtyohno, glad you're warmed up now. What a spectacular view to walk into everyday! Our kitchen window wouldn't have quite as nice of a view (hence why we were on the fence) but still good enough to open up with windows. Love your slab cabinets. Your granite is divine. It reminds me of my DB's who didn't have to spare any expense on their remodel for a "show kitchen". Trying to get a perspective, how wide are your windows?

Huango, thanks for posting your 85% finished kitchen that looks 100% gorgeous. Not seeing everything I can't wait to see the final reveal! Our view would be somewhat like yours but with the neighbors side of their house approx 50+ feet away directly west, mountains to the southwest, and the end of our lake to the northwest. Sounds like the windows are new. Was it the natural light or the great views you too have that you wanted to open it up? How wide is each window and how did you decide on the size, spacing, and window count to put in?

I think in the back of my head I was trying to please everyone (though I can't say I'm typically a people pleaser). After all if I had a "perfect" kitchen surely everyone would love it...WRONG.

I've got plenty of storage and with a new 5' pantry in the adjacent utility room (hopefully soon to be finished), I will have more then enough room with no uppers.

I THINK (hopefully I won't change my mind again), I need to decide on whether to put the sink on the exterior wall or the cooktop. Even if I have all windows, I can use a downdraft so I don't break up the view. I do like the look of vents so at this point I'm going to have to shop around. Here's a pic with slab cabinets at "night". We've been considering removing the upper window on the right as it seems out of place, especially when trying to do window treatments. We've got a mirror of this window in our bedroom so the exterior from the back would be off balance unless we remove that too. Considering that one too gives me issues, I'm definitely not opposed.

If you have children who will sitting at the island, I would put the cooktop under the windows and the sink in the island.

Kids all grown. The island will be 4' deep. In our last remodel, we had it on the island and loved it. I'm sure we'll over think this decision too, but it's almost a coin toss.

Can I get your opinion on the size and count of windows? What sizes would you go with and how many. I'll have anywhere from 13-14' depending on the ultimate configuration.

Our windows are 2 48"s. There was a window on the left originally. We thought we were just going to match it. It is 16 years old. We went to order we discovered that Anderson had changed the height by 1/2 inch so we had to order 2 the same. This made the installation a little more costly. It would have been nice to have 3 windows but I really needed the upper on the left for glasses and mugs. I didn't center the sink on the windows because one of my major goals was to have the longest sweep of uninterrupted counter as possible. So it is centered on the left window.

Have you tried the sink between the refrigerator and the ovens on the outside wall? As you showed it in the second plan but with the cooktop on the island. This would save you a few steps as you are working in the kitchen.

I hate to be a stinker....really, I do. I know you've been working on this for a very long time.

BUT....where is the venting if you do either the cooktop on the island or in front of just a wall of windows? You need an island hood if island cooktop or wall hood at the windows if you do perimeter cooktop. Yes, the pics of windows and nothing but windows are gorgeous, but you need a hood there somewhere. Its not in the frame in Huango's pic, but her cooktop is to the right on the wall with vented hood.

Cottage, I've tried it but we definitely prefer the wall of windows. Even though we could get a counter depth fridge, the openess between the kitchen and dinette would be hampered by a wall that sticks out a minimum of 24" in your face (not just base cabinets). I loved the tight work triangle it provided though. That said I like having the frig out of the main aisle as I'm sure it could get quite congested. I'm not sure how it would save steps though switching out the cooktop and sink. Perhaps I'm missing something.

Breezy, I always value your opinion especially since I know you do a lot of research. I realize that having a downdraft is definitely not optimum for many cooks. That said in 35 years I don't know if I've turned the available vent on more then 50-100 times. I realize some will turn theirs on the minute they start cooking. I've even been trying to get in a better habit but it's just not happening. I never fry anything. Browning is pretty much all that I'll do. I'd still have a vent available plus now nearby windows. Those that have windows in front of their cooktop, say their windows actually stay cleaner then ones that have a sink (I know our sink window we were always having to clean up). All that said one reason for us to put the range on the outside wall would be in case we ever want to put an overhead vent in. We've seen them before and they can look quite attractive in front of a window. Your hood is like jewelry in your kitchen (along with your marble counters, wood island and dish case...). We haven't sat down and weighted out everything, but we are definitely leaning toward all windows.

A Paint alteration of your first image. Put in taller windows in both areas. And just the hood in the center. You could do away with the cabinets to the sides, but if you did mirror or glass doors, it would be the perfect spot for your cooking spices or baking ingredients.

Hollysprings thanks for taking the time to alter my of the designs I posted. I was calculating out today though that the USABLE storage in upper cabinets, especially with my being 5'3", is about 35% of a base cabinet. I would have to have approx 45 linear inches of upper cabinet to equal a 15" base cabinet storage. That's a LOT of area taken from windows to gain a little bit of storage. Once I did those figures, this was a no brainier.

That said the taller windows look great but out of my design pics, I've got a lot of windows that architecturally line up with the ones I have. I've got about 28' of windows I'd have to change out headers in this very open area. Way to costly for windows that "work". Also being the new kitchen windows face west, I want to reserve some area for window coverings, while only taking a very small amount of glass when not in use. I could actually go higher for the top of the roman shades (or whatever I get) to fill in the dead space that will be there.

Aloha: FWIW, I'm someone else who would never miss a range/vent hood. That seems to be an unpopular opinion around here, but if your plan works better without one and your cooking style doesn't make use of one, go for it!

Cooktop under windows may violate code, just FYI.

Artichokey, I know what you mean about how important venting is on this forum. That said, I truly believe that things that are pushed here are really the best way to go often. I think w/o using this forum, I would not have figured out to use drawers, single sinks, silgranite, etc. Sometimes though concessions have to be made and giving up better venting may be it. I personally don't think we'll use it hardly at all, so for us this will be an aesthetic decision and an architectural one.

Crl, we'll definitely be checking prior to installing the window above the range. We like the vent w/o the kitchen too so it will work either way.

Aloha -- I'm glad to see you have gone from zero windows to enough windows to throw a rock at ;) You're going to wind up with more of them than several ordinary kitchens combined!

I was happy to see you go back to an early IKEA picture with enhanced windows -- I always thought that would be great! And I wanted to share what I was musing on just today, approx 1.5 years into our new kitchen in which I was *very* skeptical about the value of ventilation. I was cleaning a wok cover that lives now in a drawer but was mounted on a wall around the corner from our stove once upon a time. As I washed the cover I realized it was coated with this sticky gunky goo -- horrible. I haven't really thought about that grime in a long time: it used to be everywhere! But I dn't use this wok cover much and I guess it has avoided a good cleaning in a long while. The stickiness is the last vestige of life-before-ventilation. And while you can live with that when you don't know otherwise, having shed it I can hardly imagine returning voluntarily to those days when all that stuff settled on everything, pans, lungs, cabinets. ick. A good fan is a blessing. Please reconsider passing on that amenity!

Aliris, I know exactly what you mean because I have witnessed subpar/unused venting before. The yuck doesn't just vanish but goes to the closest surface it can cling to.

That said, grease will go to the overhead vent if available (and turned on) and/or it will cling to the inside of the underside of the vent that will have to be cleaned manually along with the vent screen). Just because you have a vent, there isn't a free ride from not having to clean. I realize that most of the vent screens pop out and can be thrown in the DW. I question the area on the underside of the vent and how often that needs to be cleaned too. A good vent will help tremendously though with containment. Most everyone considers a backsplash behind a range necessary so the grease and splatters do go other places besides through the vent. As expensive (and gorgeous) as they can be, vents aren't a free ride for cleaning, just more containment.

Something that continues to surprise me is when I say I'm considering downdraft, it's as if I say I'm not providing any ventilation. I've had downdraft before and though it may not be as good as an overhead, it does provide some help. I had a downdraft in our previous home and no one said anything about smells when we went to sell. The house was described as "turn key ready".

I'm figuring having to clean the window behind the range more often then the other windows. Since I don't do much besides brown, I'm not anticipating a grease or steam particle large enough to attach itself 6' off the ground (9' ceilings). Perhaps we have a physics person who can determine the weight of a grease particle vs the velocity it's coming out of. I'm not trying to be a PITA but it does really come down to the remote possibility of it being able to travel that far.

Now all that said today, I was mocking up how it might feel to work with 12' of windows in front of me and frankly it felt uncomfortable. I felt like I was on display. I asked my DH and a friend and both of them were fine with it. I don't know if it's something I'd have to get used to or it would always feel uncomfortable. The strangest part is we have 12' of window in the great room (where I did one test) and I've never felt it till today. Bottom line as you can read, I haven't decided on all windows or 2 windows and a vent.

I think the "depressing" layout you posted on Sat, Jan 26, 13 at 18:12 could look great with a few tweaks. I would take the cabinets above the ovens and fridge all the way to the ceiling (you could use small glass cabinets on top if you don't want dark wood all the way up) and lose the horizontal bridge in between them. Then I would fill in all the non-window space between the 2 tall cabinets with tile from counter to ceiling, around and above the windows. I would use a chimney hood over the cooktop, as I think they look great mounted over a full wall of tile.

Kaysd, I tried that before and it looked even more awkward.

Needing/wanting the consistency of the other windows in the open area is important. I've been told by some that the height doesn't matter but can you find pics where the window heights change? It's RARELY done. If you looked throughout your home, you will VERY likely see that they are all the same height. Some homes have a secondary height for decorator windows set above the main window (half rounds, transoms, etc). It seems to be an architectural standard almost.