I have both Asko and Miele machines and do use the higher temps (205 and 190 F) on a fairly regular basis, but only for certain types of loads: kitchen linens, household cleaning linens (rags, towels, dusters, mop heads) pet bedding, washing towels - particularly pool towels that have stayed damp in hot weather, rehabbing old cotton and linen sheets and flaxen table linens, routine cleaning of damask table linens, cleaning farm overalls and greasy garage stuff. If I still did diapers, those would also be washhed at highest temps. Occasionally I use higher temps because of illness, but very rarely.

I do about 30 loads per week, and I usually do 2 to 5 really hot cycles weekly. One of the uses of very hot water is as a substitute for use of harsher bleaches. I almost never use Clorox and only rarely "all-fabric" bleaches.

HTH,

Molly

I only use the Miele 205F "Sanitize" feature for things like washing bed pillows and 100% cotton bath mats.

I stopped using the 205F setting on my whites/underwear to preserve the spandex/rubber that is damaged by repeated "Sanitary" washings.

If I had such a use, I would most likely always use it for clothe diapers/nappies for the extra health benefit.

standard "sanitizing" 160-deg (more or less) water?

Well, the "standard" probably *is* the 200F, since it has been used in European machines for yonks.

I would worry about using such hot water in an immersive TL - we've found that we can use water 150+F water in our FL on clothing that a normal 'hot' setting in our TLs would seriously damage. My speculation is that being immersed in such hot water is harder on the clothing than having the clothing tumbling in and out of it. - DR

Oh, interesting. I guess I figured that since e.coli dies at 160, most other bacteria would, too (with the exception of listeria and whatnot, but I don't really expect those things to be around, anyway . . . right?). So what would I have to gain by heating the water an extra 40 degrees? Will the diapers be whiter, but not necessarily any more sterile?

For what it's worth, I don't use bleach on my diapers, because they majorit of them are polyester fleece with microfiber inserts. They have elastic, and now I wonder if the very hot water would hurt them? I remember what happened to the shorts that my husband had laundered at his health club; they practically disintegrated!

I did wonder if any of you were going to mention mildew. I have a lot of allergies and, as this is Houston, some wet things never seem to dry soon enough. I can almost always detect a mildew stink in some things, especially those things that get wet often (dishrags, baby items forgetten in the rain). I can't find the temperature threshold at which the mildew would die, however. Perhaps it does have to be as high as 205.

I found an Asko here in Houston for $750 yesterday, but it had a various mysterious dial that went from 1-11 (the cycles, I'm assuming) and could find no information on it (and of course the salesperson had no idea . . . why do they even bother?). The other Asko didn't have a prewash and extra rinse function, which I would like to have for the diapers (right now I run a cold cycle, and when I remember run over and switch it to a hot cycle . . . I'd rather get it done all at once!). The least expensive Miele I've found here was $1800 . . . oy, that would eat into our savings for months. The water heater, on the other hand, is $200. Big difference!

Thanks for your comments about the hot water settings. Any others?

Here is a link that might be useful: Double the fun, half the sleep.

I regularly use the 195F wash in my Miele when washing T-shirts, kitchen towels. cleaning rags and other white cottons and linens that don't contain elastic.

The combination of high temperature and extended wash programs ensure that tea towels and cleaning rags come out nice and white -- even white terry carwashing rags -- without resorting to chlorine bleach. T-shirts also benefit. None of my T-shirts have gray or yellow armpits -- the high temperature wash removes every trace of anti-perspirant deodorant. I've also found that T-shirts last 2 to 3 times longer with these vigorous wash programs. My T-shirts never take on that funny semi-transparent look that T-shirts usually take on after a year or so. The high temperatures and extended wash programs remove every trace of soil embedded in the fabric, so there's no residual dirt to grind away at the core of the fabric. It's not unusual for me to get 5 years of use out of a T-shirt, even with weekly washing.

Naturally, undershorts and other garments with eleastic bands won't stand up to repeated washings at such high temperatures, although I wash even those at 140F, every week.

James

since e.coli dies at 160, most other bacteria would, too

Well, there's always conjunctivitis... - DR

DR, Sorry but this is a picky clarification. Bacterial conjunctivitis can be spread by using the same washcloth as a person with conjunctivitis who has wiped off the mucopurulent discharge from their eyelid margins. Of course the eye-to-hand and then hand-to-eye route is much more common infection route for the staph and other viral, fungal & bacterialorganisms that can cause conjunctivitis. Our clinic towels always get the NeXXt temp boast wash setting and bleach.

I wonder also how anyone can use these temps. I have had my Bosch for a month and I used my temp boost (150) on underwear, towels and sheets so far. After two weeks my son said that his socks were shrunk. He is the only one out of the 4 of us and I couldn't believe it. His are a name brand, but they are almost impossible to pull over his foot. He has a size 13 foot and gets the 12-16 shoe size socks, as big as I can get. I am miffed as so much of the clothing, sheets and towels are labeled warm wash and some even cold. Who ever heard of washing sheets in cold?? These are all cotton ones at that. I have cut back to the hot setting for the socks for now.

The common way of doing laundry here in the UK doesn't actually involve using the 95*C wash - most people do even their heavily soiled whites at 40/105 - 60*C/140*F, not using any hotter. It is considered very energy inefficient to use the higher temps (a 60*C wash uses approx. twice as much electricity as a 40*C wash, and a 95*C wash uses approx. twice as much electricity again as a 60*C wash), so I find it quite hilarious that people are buying these energy efficient washers in the USA but not quite realising just how much electricity they are wasting with the higher temperatures.

As long as a good quality detergent is used, you should be able to get excellent cleaning quality at low temperatures - perhaps it's just the European detergents but I can get a big load of grubby whites clean on a standard 40*C/105*F cycle. I only use the higher 60*C temperature for sanitary reasons, and only use 95*C occasionally for the kitchen linen or the dog's blankets. Otherwise, at least out of my experience, as well as being energy inefficient using the higher temperatures frequently can also cause excess colour loss, shrinking, mishaping of garments, plus are just plain unnecessary for normal laundry.

Jon

benbow, bleach is great, but don't forget that it breaks down in high temps, so if you use it in a temp-boosted cycle, make sure it has some time to act before the water gets that hot.

Jon, you wrote: "how much electricity they are wasting with the higher temperatures"

The US Bosch has a 1 kilowatt element. Forget complicated energy computations, suppose that the element runs on full blast for an entire 2 hour cycle (which of course we know it doesn't); that's 2 KWH, not very much electricity...probably around 20 cents for most people in the US. In reality, the heater is actually used much less in such a wash, so there is really not much waste. - DR

The point is, dross, is that using higher temperatures when not necessary is wasteful. According to the manual of my Miele washing machine, a 40*C cottons wash uses 0.45kWh. A 60*C wash has an energy consumption of 0.85kWh, and a 95*C wash 1.7kWh. Any idiot can see that a 40*C wash is less energy wasting than a 95*C wash; especially when you can more or less obtain the same cleaning results. Even if it's such a little amount as you suggest, as the saying goes, every little helps...

Jon

I never used the 205F setting on any of our washers (I live in Germany, so every washer has a 205° F/ 95 °C setting). I only used the boil wash setting for the initial cleaning cycle when we replaced our 9-year-old, dying FL with a new one.
Oh, and I also run it on my grandmaÂs Miele whenever I visit her  her Miele tends to develop a kind of musty smell Âcause she does a lot of washing and I suspect she might not always use enough detergentÂ

I do all my laundry myself [like Jon ;-)] and wash my (colored/black) underwear at 40°C / 105°F with liquid Ariel Color & Style, short cycle (74 minutes) and extra rinse. Despite the use of low temps and liquid detergent I never found my underwear to be unsanitary  itÂs always clean.

For the rest of my whites (colorfast towels and bedding, white underwear) I use the 60°C / 140°F cycle (again short cycle + extra rinse) and, at the moment, Ariel Mild & Rein ("mild & pure" in English). ItÂs an un-scented, dye-free powdered detergent.

tigerpurring :

Remember that most manufacturers limit the incoming water temperature (IIRC the allowed max. inlet temp is around 140°F) because water valves and inlet hoses of washing machines are not made to withstand the constant use of very hot water.

Even though the inlet temperature may be 170°F, the actual temperature during the wash cycle will be cooler (thereÂre many, many threads here at the Laundry Room Forum discussing the issue of temperature loss in FL washers).

Chlorine bleach is very effective at eliminates many kinds of germs. On the other hand, itÂs very harmful to colors and kills the enzymes used in washing powders and liquids. Many modern FLs have a cycle, which adds chlorine bleach either to the first rinse or at the end of the main wash. These cycles are usually called Whitest Whites or something like that.

Many stains can be set if the water is too hot at the beginning of the cycle. Additionally, those sensitive enzymes in detergents are significantly less effective, if they are "boiled" in water hotter than 140°F.

If I had to wash diapers and so forth IÂd probably set the washer to 140°, use a powdered detergent and select an extra rinse. Maybe IÂd use pre-wash, too. For drying I would use a high-heat cycle and make sure items are completely dry ("more dry" setting).

Current European Miele washers and dryers have special Hygiene cycles. The Hygiene cycle on the washer is set to 140°F, includes a total of three rinses and has a special temperature profile to maintain the temp during the main wash at 140° for an extended period of time. The overall cycle duration is 140 min. versus 109 minutes for the regular 140° cottons cycle. I don't know, if the Sanitize cycle on U.S. Miele machines works the same.
The dryerÂs Hygiene cycle defaults to a normal dryness level, which canÂt be user-adjusted and, like the washer, maintains the temp at a high level for an extended period of time during the drying process.

Hope this helps, Alex

i don't like the distinctive rubber/plastic smell that emanates from my Miele on the Sanitize cycle. To kill a few extra germs at a lower temperature, I often use the "Extended" button to give a total wash time ("Normal") of about 73 min.

a 40*C wash is less energy wasting than a 95*C wash; especially when you can more or less obtain the same cleaning results.

You have to look at it holistically. If you need more sophisticated chemistry or a more complex cleaning regimen to clean at 40C to the same level as 95C with simpler chemistry and regimen, then you have to ask whether the effort and the cost (financial and ecological) of the better detergent is less than the extra electrical outlay.

Similarly, if the same effort and detergent at 40C cleans or disinfects even marginally less well than at 60C or 95C, then you have to ask whether the miniscule money saved is worth the extra effort or risk of worse results.

What you describe as "quite hilarious" I see as simply not being penny-wise and pound-foolish. Tying yourself in knots in order to save 10 cents seems to me to be the idiotic thing.

PS to Alex: we used to wash undergarments at 40C as well, until I saw the bacterial research from Gerba and others on washing machines. - DR

Dross - if you don't want to save energy that's fine by me, but my general point was that a 40*C wash uses less energy than a 60 or 95*C wash and gives a good result - and we certainly don't pay a lot on washing powder especially as we buy it in bulk. As usual you seem to want to overcomplicate matters...

In my opinion, internal heaters are a huge marketing feature in the USA, and are made out to be more than they actually are. As I said before, look at the European markets - all frontloaders have heaters and always have done, yet people seldom use temperatures over 40*C and still manage to have clean laundry. And it still remains obvious to many that a 40*C wash will use much less energy than a 95*C wash; as I pointed out from the consumption figures in the Miele manual.

Seeming as a lot on this forum are environment concious I'm surprised a lot more don't oppose regular use of high temperature washes.

Plus, I haven't heard of anybody dying yet from washing their underwear at 40*C.

Jon

DH's jeans became badly stained last summer when he stained about 1/2 dozen picnic tables at DD's school. The jeans went thru a number of normal (140 degree) washes and came out looking the same. Today, I cranked up the Danby to 200 degrees, used the prewash and more detergent than usual, plus White King and OxyClean -- and they came out sparkling! I've also found that greasy cloth napkins don't get clean below 160-180 degrees.

@ dross:

Yes, I read that report youve posted a while ago. The "European Laundry Study" or something like that, right?

It totally freaked me out at first and I started researching all kinds of laundry additives. My search included things like Ariel Kalt Aktiv [cold active] (its the German version of Tide Coldwater) and a special liquid, which is added to the fabric softener dispenser and supposed to kill off germs even in cold water.

However, since I have washed my clothes for years without the need for anti-bacterial additives and never had any problems I decided not to buy any of that stuff.

The only thing I did change is to always use the Extra Rinse option, which activates an additional rinse and adds more water to every rinse. But thats basically because I read about the poor rinsing performance on modern washers (like ours).

As a matter of fact, the study actually says that: quote: "Washing at very low temps (15C and 30C) can effectively remove most germs if coupled with 4 or more rinses"

Alex

Whirlpool_trainee, I actually can't use bleach with my clothing with my washing machine. It's a pretty stupid machine, and dumps the bleach into the drum as soon as a pour it into the basket. Funny, isn't it? So whenever I have to bleach something (because of mildew, generally), I have to bleach it in a bucket, and then try to get the contents of the bucket into the FL without spilling water all over the floor. It's really lovely!

Soooo, I am hoping that hot, hot, hot water will help kill the nasties in those clothes that have developed a bit of a funk, because many of my towels have bleach stains already!

The other reason I wanted a sanitary cycle is that because the machine uses so little water, and because the soil level of the diapers tends to vary a bit from load to load (at 18 months they use the potty half the time, but do have our misses! And sometimes my daughter requires a bit of ointment, while most times she doesn't . . .), it's hard to use just the right amount of soap. Sometimes I have to do a 3rd or even 4th cycle, even using the "extra rinse" feature on the machine. I was hoping that hotter water would help get the diapers clean without relying on the chemical processes of the detergent. Some days even when I do add the usual amount of soap, the diapers don't seem properly clean (they smell a bit, or have some stains on them still that eventually come out with another cycle or two). When they aren't entirely clean, sometimes I wonder what exactly is remaining with the diapers, and if I want my babies to be wearing it. So, of course, I wind up rinsing, rinsing, rinsing all over again.

The third reason is that I wanted to be able to occasionally use a very hot water cycle to help break up some of the goop that I am sure collects on the drum (the mildew funky smell happens pretty often with us, despite leaving the door open, cleaning the gasket, using bleach in the drum on occasion, etc.). But perhaps I can treat that with a Cascade complete wash more often. Thanks to this forum I have tried it and it really did seem to take care of the problem.

The fourth reason is that I'd like to lower my water heater. We kept it at 120 for the longest time, until we noticed that hte diapers got much cleaner with the much warmer water. But now that the babes can turn knobs quite well, I am afraid they will burn themselves (or us) in the bath.

I am happy to learn that we'll survive just fine without a cute European washing machine (although I can still admire them!). Based on your advice we're going to purchase the external heater, turn our 40-gallon unit way down, and experiment with the water heater temps a bit. It might be that we keep it at 140, and then the times when we want a hotter cycle, crank it up, wait an hour, and then wash. We figure this is probably more inefficient than having a machine with an internal heater, but not as efficient as keeping a 40-gal water heater full of 140+ degree water all day long.

THANKS SO MUCH for the input. I am loving this forum!

As usual you seem to want to overcomplicate matters...

Young Jon, some day you will learn that the world is a complicated place:-)

Seriously, I don't like to fuss over laundry, so use the higher temps to get the wash cleaner without needing to be too choosy about detergent, additives, etc. The extra heat makes things less complicated, not more so.

In my opinion, internal heaters are a huge marketing feature in the USA, and are made out to be more than they actually are

On the contrary, US marketing has very little to say about heaters; it is often hard to tell at the store if a washer even has one. They focus instead on irrelevant microspecs, like 1100rpm vs 1000rpm.

I haven't heard of anybody dying yet from washing their underwear at 40*C.

Illness from improper laundry is well-documented, whether or not it shows up in the Grauniad. Let me ask you this: if you had the choice of eating at two otherwise identical restaurants, but you learned that at one the cook's bathroom had only a cold-water tap, and at the other hot water for washing hands, wouldn't the second one seem more appetizing to you?

As a matter of fact, the study actually says that: quote:

Well you're quoting *me* there, not the study, so depending on the credibility of my paraphrasure:-) It does seem from that study that multiple rinses in the Wascomats they were using reduced the spread of germs from one garment to another, but why not simply eliminate them altogether?

tigerpurring, you might be able to fix your bleach dispenser by smoothing out the plastic in the syphon mechanism with some 000 or 0000 steel wool. You can also use laundry additives like lestoil or even pine oil to disinfect without bleaching (you can add these to the detergent dispenser). - DR

Let me ask you this: if you had the choice of eating at two otherwise identical restaurants, but you learned that at one the cook's bathroom had only a cold-water tap, and at the other hot water for washing hands, wouldn't the second one seem more appetizing to you?
Honestly, I don't even think about that issue when I go to a restaurant.

Tigerpurring:

Would it be possible to use the pre-wash cycle and to pour the (maybe even pre-diluted?) bleach down the pre-wash dispenser while the machine is filling? That way you could avoid this complicated bucket method and at the same time youre cleaning the inside of your front loader.

Its totally understandable that youd like to turn your main water heater down to a lower temperature especially with kids in the house.

Sorry, if you understood me wrong but I actually advised against the external water heater.

Water entering the machine at 170°F **might** damage the washers hot water inlet valve.

There will also be some temperature loss as the hot water comes into contact with the cold tub, drum and laundry (although this can be reduced by running a warm pre-wash to pre-heat the drum, tub and laundry). On the other hand, of course: water entering the washer at 170° will be more effective than water at only 120°

Also dont forget that too hot water at the start of the cycle can set some stains (protein-based stains). A warm pre-wash can help to avoid this, though.

Euro washers like Miele and Asko have the ability do "profile washes", where the machine fills with cold water and then increases the temperature to whatever the user selected up to 205°F. This maximizes cleaning performance and stain removal in particular.
I think the new Bosch Nexxt machines (500 Series and above) are able to do profile washes up to 170°F according to their press release.

Sorry to cause even more confusion on the "separate external water heater vs. new washing machine" issue but there is an article in the FAQ section where a lady used her Miele to test the stain removal ability of high water temps (and probably also profile washes) on several stains.

Alex

Reading the above mentioned FAQ reminded me of something that happened to me and a possible caveat to high temp washings.

I while back, I got some blood on a light green bath towel. I decided to wash it on the 205F cycle to remove the stain. I also tossed in a 100% cotton white T-shirt and a pair of white socks. I've washed the same towels with my whites together at 140F with out any bleeding of the green dye.

When the cycle finished I had a stain free green towel and, unfortunately, a pair of green socks and green t-shirt. A later soak in Rit Dye remover failed to remove the green dye. The high wash temperatures had caused the towels to bleed and the white garments to be permanently dyed green.

I think a word of caution would be that if you are going to wash colors at high temperatures, assume they will bleed; even if they haven't in the past. Also, only wash garments together that are the same or similar colors.

Ooooh, Alex, thanks. I read your post and interpreted it differently (high heat for a long period of time) . . . thanks for clarifying! I would rather NOT melt my washing machine's innards. There isn't a prewash on this machine. Right now, when I wash diapers or very dirty baby clothes I run a short wash on cold to get the bits out, wait for the buzz, then pop back into the garage and set the machine on hot or warm wash, heavy duty cycle. It's a hassle, but then I remember my grandmother's washboard and am okay with it. :D We'll make sure not to get a little overenthusiastic with the water heater, and thanks for the link about the stains. Interesting . . .

MieleMiele, thanks for the heads up about the bleeding dyes. Yipes!

Blood stains are removed easily via cold water to warm/hot (120F-140F)profile wash, or pre-treating the area with any good stain product and or hydrogen peroxide then washing in cool to warm water. Heat sets the protiens in blood, modern enzyme detergents/pre-treatments work quite well in removing such stains. It also helps to flush the stain while fresh with cold water.

As for "boil washes", most all my vintage laundry books from about the 1940's on clearly state boiling laundry went out with modern automatic washing machines and certianly as laundry products have evoloved from soap.

Boiling was done mainly as a way to loosen muck,grime and other soils from laundry without all the rubbing/scrubbing one had to do prior to automatic washing machines. Very hot water washes were also a way of combating common vermin found in laundry (lice, nits, fleas, etc), which happily are not as widespread today.

Very hot water washes do offer a way of sanitising laundry, but at widely differnt temps. E coli requires only 160F at 20 minutes, but yeasts, and other types of bugs require much higher temps for longer contact times. It must also be remembered that there was much more of an emphasis on "boil washes" in eras past when there were few if any modern disenfectants and especially antibiotics. Cathing a germ until as recently could almost mean certian death, unless one was strong enough to fight off the infection, even then many still died. Therefore housewives did everything they could to keep their homes "germ free". However because of modern sanitation and health care we simply do not see the sorts of illnesses/widespread diseases housewives commonly were used to. Thyphoid fever, measles, cholera, minor strep or staph infections that rapidly turned into major systemic infections which caused everything from child birth fever to pneumonia can are are controlled. Also modern hospitals have replaced sick rooms in the home. This means less disease in homes to infect other members of the same household.

The final reason for very hot water washes was that perborate/percarbonate bleaches require temps of 120F/130F and above to become really effective. The lower the water temp, the longer contact time must be for equal results.

Modern chemistry as gotten around this problem by creating "activated" oxygen bleaches found in most better quality detergents/laundry products. Bleach activator chemicals when combined with oxygen bleaches in wash water,provide equal or better bleaching/stain removal action at wash temps of 100F, and even 80F. This is why repeated washing of darks even in cold or cool water using products such as Perisl or Tide will eventually "bleach" those colours. Activated bleaches also provide very effective disenfection of laundry at wash temps of 100F to 120F, with a contact time of at least 20 minutes. In fact the chemical produced by combining oxygen bleach and bleaching activators "Peracetic acid" is a very, very effective broad spectrum biocide and stain remover.

Peracetic acid is such an effective biocide that brewers and other use it to clean stainless steel vats because unlike chlorine bleach it does not cause damage.

Commercial and hospital laundries around the world have long switched to activated oxygen bleaches because they can obtain the same level of stain removal/disenfection at wash temps of 120F or lower, which results in a savings on energy costs. It also results in longer textile life as lower wash water temps are less harsh on textile fibers. Again, unlike chlorine bleaches (never very popular outside of the United States for laundry use), activated oxygen bleaches do not cause textile damage.

For all the above reasons, the average wash temp in Europe/UK is widely documented to be 40C. The use of activated oxygen bleaches, and better detergent formulas has really removed the requirment for long boil washes. Of course if one uses lower quality detergents and mainly cool/cold water washes, that is a different matter all together.

Americans have really only recently "rediscovered" front loading washing machines, and built in water heaters. Just because one can launder something at 160F to 200F, does not mean one ought to; first of all not many items produced today can withstand repeated super or even very hot water washes. Second of all many American detergents are not designed for long boiling washes. Designed with enzymes and activated bleaches, they work quite well at wash temps of 140F and below, (140F-120F the common setting of most hot water heaters in American homes, with 120F usually the factory setting). Indeed long wash times with detergents not desigened for the purpose can lead to poor results, as the componets of said detergent begin to loose their soil suspension ability, allowing removed soils to redeposit back onto laundry. Conversely many European detergents designed for long boil washes have been redesigned to work in lower wash temps and or shorter cycles.

Have washed everything from badly soiled table linens to muddy gardening clothes setting my Miele to ho higher than 120F and using plain old Tide or Wisk dual action tablets, and the results have always been great. Have also "restored" vintage linens that had foxing stains (that yellowing one sees from linens lying about stored), using the same low wash temps, but quality products.

My Miele goes up to 200F, and cannot remember the last time (aside from occassional "maitaining washes), ever laundering anything at that temp. Especially as I still do quite a bit of ironing, and cottons/linens laundered at very high temps emerge with lots of wrinkles. Simply do not fancy making more work for myself.

C.dS

Most of my colors get 120, whites go to 160. I use Cheer on colors and Tide HE on the whites. So far results have been great.

I used to do kitchen towels on 205 when I first got the machine -- the high temp was such a cool feature I had to use it -- but over time I noticed the towels thinning and developing holes. I now limit my highest temp to 175 for non-elastic items (pet bedding, dirty kitchen towels, etc.) and elastic whites to 160.

Maybe 160 is overkill, but it's just so engrained in me not to go lower for whites.

I just wanted to follow up on the original post. All of your posts were EXTREMELY helpful. So much I didn't know!

We did install a small water heater (one of the instant types) dedicated to the washing machine. Per the advice of many of you, we keep the water heater temp at about 145F; the main water heater is at about 115-120F. After using the 145F water a few times/week and running a couple of cycles with Cascade Complete about a month ago, it's like I have a brand-new washing machine. No more funky stink in the drum, despite dirtier clothes than ever, and washing at least 4 loads/day. And those clothes that are washed in the hot water DO seem very very clean. WOW.

It turns out that we are moving and I am going to get a new washing machine in October. (I need something that will let me program a prewash and extra rinse because the washing machine will not be on the main living floor.) Until then, using my current machine has been much more pleasant.

And, I guess also, I know now what that 200-degree water is for. :)

205F certainly is HOT and more than the 180F most commercial steam machines achieve. Unless your dealing with isolation or infectious disease, I couldn't think of a practical use for such temperatures in the consumer laundry room.

One thing to consider is that European front loaders that have a "Boil Wash" cycle are designed to work with these high temperatures. Also, the water is heated inside the washer not in an outside hot water heater.

If you set your water heater to something like 170F, and connect your washer up to it, you are going to be inputing water that's much hotter than all the inlet hoses, and water valves were designed for.

If you do this what's likely to happen is you'll probably cause something to fail, and you don't want this because a failure in any of the inlet hoses or valves is going to flood your house.

I can't think of any feed components in a washing machine that would fail at 170F. It is just conceivable that there is a seal or gasket somewhere that would not like sustained contact with water this hot, but I would think that any material rated for the 140F of a typical hot water heater would actually be rated above 170F as well. - DR

Our Affinity 7000 Energy sticker says that it will consume $24 worth of energy per year using an electric water heater and $17 a year with a gas water heater.

If you use the high temp cycles a lot, I imagine it would be a bit higher. A couple bucks a month plus maybe a dollar for detergent is a tremedous value for what you get in return. Clean clothes and peace of mind.

At first I used the 200 degree setting on my Danby for all my whites. They sure were clean but any elastic (tighty whiteys) didn't last long. I have used it to remove an old grease stain from a white cotton apron. It will "for sure" get stuff clean, but I save it for "sick bed" linens and tough to clean whites. I have never had a washer with on board heater, I will never be without one in the future.