Do you need a door in nook alcove? As drawn the table seems to awkwardly obstruct traffic and site lines to and from the door.

If you can't get rid of the door, then I would do away with the eat in dining table keep just one dining table in the dining room. Then you'd have more room in your kitchen for an for an island with seating. In this case I'd also consider removing most of the wall between the kitehcn and dining room and replacing it with a peninsula, which will help connect it to primary living space. I like this plan best.

If you can move or remove the door, then I'd consider a 42" round table or baquette tucked into that alcove, which would again open up a lot of space for a larger island, but I don't think you'd want seating at the island in this case because you'd already have to kitchen/dining seating areas, and 3 seems like too much to me.

I'd also consider putting the fridge where the desk is and the cooktop where the fridge is.

Thanks! That door is our only access to the backyard, so it's got to stay. I agree it would be a lot easier to plan the nook space without it. We have been considering switching to a smaller table for the eat-in kitchen area. It is where we primarily eat. The "dining room" is mainly our craft area right now...

Thanks!
Michelle

Put the cooktop on the wall to the DR and go with a 25" single sink for cleanup. Do a prep sink on the island. Now, the island is all for prep, and you've actually got room for that. Pretty much everything else is OK, except for the desk, which is probably a dumping ground. Great place for a coffee bar or a couple of pantries though.

In order to make the two person seating you could turn your island and make it a peninsula (probably connecting to the side that the desk its on). Your cooktop could stay where it is (though if probably move it a foot our two). Nix the desk.

Here's an idea...could you move the cooktop onto the peninsula (as suggested above) and then slide the table over, per Lyfia's idea on another post?

You'd have seating, but with a half wall behind the cooktop that should give you some protection from splatters. This would also allow you easier access to the patio door...and a comfy upholstered chair for sitting in the sun :) {{!gwi}}From Kitchen plans

Similar to this.... {{gwi:1407443}}From TV kitchens

Thanks for the ideas! I guess what I'm struggling with right now is how to weigh the costs/benefits of certain changes. For example, I imagine it would be fairly expensive to move the cooktop to the wall shared with the dining room and change the venting. It would be nice to have use of an uninterrupted island countertop, but *how much* nicer? Is it worth the cost? I find I prep mainly to the right of the cooktop, so then my prep space would mostly in that corner to the right of the cooktop. I wonder how cramped that would feel. For whatever reason, island cooktops seem to be quite popular here in eastern WA; at least 80% of the homes we viewed when house shopping had them!

I like the peninsula ideas, but don't think I want the cooktop on the penninsula if it's so close to the family room space. I'm also intrigued by the idea of putting the fridge where the desk is, then the cooktop where the fridge currently is, also freeing up the island. That would put the cooktop on an entirely interior wall, so venting would be more of a challenge.

One contractor we've talked to said our space would work a lot better with a range instead of a wall oven and cooktop. Would switching appliances to a range be a huge mistake for resale value?

thanks,
Michelle

I understand that your dining room is currently used as a craft area, but I gotta ask - do you feel that's the best use for that space in the long run? If not, then now is the time to think about repurposing it.

I'm guessing that a big part of your hesitation to eat all your meals in the dining room is that it feels far from the action in the current layout, but it wouldn't feel that way if you removed the wall and replaced it with a peninsula. And wouldn't it be nicer to eat your meals farther from the family room with the TV and whatnot?

I would sort out the idea of the craft area first. As gauchogordo1993 said, is that really the best use of the space? An occasional project is one thing but if crafts are a regular activity then you would be best to find a permanent spot.

For me a range is not an issue as I prefer them to wall ovens. Why? Because I turn on my range hood vent before opening the oven door.

Regarding resale value considerations, increasing the size of your kitchen by consolidating dining to the dining room along with a bigger island with seating will make a far bigger difference than range vs wall oven. Indeed removing that wall will make your whole house feel bigger, which will also impact resale value.

But then I prefer ranges to wall ovens for the reason debra mentions and because we use the stove and oven in combination often so I find it most convenient to have them as close as possible to each other.

Thanks for the feedback GauchoGordo & DebraK! We had thought about taking down that wall early on in our planning, but moved away from that idea since we thought the 1st floor would be TOO open then. I'm attaching a sketch of our 1st floor layout. If we turned the wall between the kitchen and dining room into a peninsula, then the family room would be open to the kitchen which is open to the dining, which is separated from the living room only by a large (8 ft) archway. Based on this floorplan, would you still recommend turning that wall into a peninsula?

You're totally right that we need to consider our long-range uses for these rooms! We have used the formal dining rooms in the last 3 houses we've lived in as some sort of craft/reading/play room, so we do need some sort of space for those activities. We don't need two spaces for eating (eat-in kitchen & formal DR), and we've tended to use the more casual eat-in kitchen as our everyday eating space. We've also thought about switching the family room furniture into the dining room space and using the current kitchen/family room as a kitchen with a large eat-in space. BUT with the fireplace and garage entry in the family room, we thought that might be an awkward space for our dining area. The downstairs bedroom is used a guest room.

thanks for the ideas!
Michelle

This post was edited by mpg2004 on Tue, Jan 7, 14 at 13:55

What do you use your living room for?

Do the crafts have to be out all the time? or can the supplies and stuff be put in cabinets and taken out as needed?

Think about what spaces you need and which spaces could be combined successfully.

I appreciate your concerns about making it too open, but I'd definitely do it. In fact we just made a change like this in our house and it's wonderful (Holly was the first to suggest dining consolidation in my design thread a year ago - thanks Holly!). In order to maintain some separation between the rooms we left 26" of the wall in question. I'll post a pic later.

Regarding "too open" - it occurs to me that your current dining arrangement has all the downsides of "too open" floorplans without the benefits. That is, you're effectively dining in the family room, which is the most frequent criticism of open concept plans, but yet it still feels cramped.

To sort through this, I recoomend that you brainstorm instances in which it might feel too open and think through how best to satisfy those use cases. To my thinking, the only time I'd want that wall is if I was reading or doing something else that required extended concentration in the dining room and there was a distracting activity in the family room or kitchen. How often will that happen and is there a better way to satisfy those use cases?

Thanks! I would LOVE to see your pictures when you get a chance.

Michelle

OK. In the meantime, here's my kitchen design thread. The drawing at the end is what we went with and we're extremely happy with it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gordo's kitchen design thread

Do you need a separate living room and family room? You have a great layout! I would consolidate the living room and family room into one big area...and have seating, the TV, and maybe a few reading chairs in the bay window. If you want to add a small fireplace (maybe gas?) that would be nice, but I'd stick with a big TV instead....and the main fireplace would look wonderful in the kitchen!

I'd take down the wall and add a peninsula between the current dining room (future family room) and add a larger island in the kitchen. The table could be by the fireplace....maybe with a couple of chairs for reading/conversation right by the window. These could be pulled up to the table, when you add leaves for holiday/parties. Also a window seat would be a great feature for the kids...and possibly a large storage hutch with dishes above and computer and/or craft accessories below. If you had a pull out area you could even use it as a desk (?)

This would be a great way to use all your spaces and you'd have a nice dining area that's open to the kitchen. The cooktop would be on the island (with a prep sink) and some stools for seating. I think this fits a lot more lifestyles than the separate/formal living areas. (Hope you don't mind the plants...I'm tired of snow! LOL) {{!gwi}}From Kitchen plans

Close up of kitchen...that's a half wall (with 4" to 6" backsplash) behind the cooktop. It gives you a place for outlets and keeps things from falling off the back of the island :) {{!gwi}}From Kitchen plans

This post was edited by lavender_lass on Tue, Jan 7, 14 at 17:00

Avoiding a complete first floor redo might help with keeping costs down. I would put the range/cooktop on the wall of the dining room. This should be easy to vent to the outside wall. Get rid of the island cooktop. They may be popular but your kitchen seems cramped with a cooktop on the island.
Whether you have a cooktop or range is personal preference.
Seems like you would have more prep space moving the cooktop off the island to dining room wall and getting a smaller one bowl sink.
What are the dimensions of your current island and the aisle widths all around it?
Do you want/ need that desk?

OK, here's some before & after pics of my kitchen. I've been meaning to post a proper "reveal", and I took these pictures for that purpose the other day, but it turns out I'm not very good at photography because the camera is choking on the white counters. That's not even direct sunlight on that prep counter by the sink! And the camera battery is dead now. Anyhow, I think you can get a feel for the impact of the wall removal from these.

before, from family room:

after, from family room:

before, from living room:

after, from living room:

This post was edited by GauchoGordo1993 on Wed, Jan 8, 14 at 9:24

Dunno if you want another pair.

These are variations of your plan with bonus expenses. For traffic reasons, I'd more the doorway to the dining room up by the cleanup area and I'd for sure move the door to the backyard - either by cutting a new door at the edge of the family room or replacing a window with a door in either the family room or dining room.

Sometimes I don't think more cabinets = more capability to cook efficiently. I'm not so sure that making the kitchen a lot bigger is a good answer here.

So this shows two variations of the dining room wall and the stair wall and the island. By closing off the existing door to the dining room and replacing the exterior door with a window, you could use a round table in the nook area (with or without a banquette). The island can be longer than it was.

The blue markings show a 12" (could be 14") deep pantry on the dining room wall, the oven slides over, the island becomes a little shorter than the gray version and I moved the cooktop onto the stair wall - giving you an island that only has a prep sink on it.

The gray version has a very long island, shown with cook top and prep sink. Unfortunately, that comes combined with less defined pantry space. But you get a really long back counter that could have every countertop appliance ever made.

On both versions, the stair wall cabinet run is a little shorter and ends in a tall cabinet that faces the family room - meant either for decorative items (tall, open cabinet about 30" long and wall cabinet depth - glass doors and lights) books (30" open cabinet, no doors, wall depth) or storage of child foods (30" closed cabinet) with cereal, snacks, etc.

Aside from flattening the cleanup run, I took the wall cabinet off between the sink and family room - shelves holding everyday dishes would be much lighter visually and leave the cleanup person connected to family room activity. The remaining wall cabinet is a little deeper than normal (13-15" deep) to accommodate glassware and service dishes that you may want out of sight.

Thank you all, especially those who took time to post pictures or tweaked layouts. You've given me a lot to think about, and some good questions that we need to consider to make smart decisions about our remodel!

bmorepanic -- I LOVE the idea of moving the fridge into the existing desk space and having a shallow cabinet turned towards the family room.

thanks,
Michelle