Wow! You are doing a lot! In answer to your question, I have no idea, but I do have a suggestion...post this on either the "Remodeling" or "Building a Home" forum. I think the experts there will have a better idea of how this should be handled.

Good luck!

Thanks, buehl.

I think you definitely need an architect to help you with your extensive remodel plans.

IMHO, if you have enough time and the inclination to take on all the design details then I would say you need a good GC. It really seems you know what you want done so I don't think an architect is necessary. To me, architects are more useful when designing a large addition or completely rearranging interior walls, big stuff. Then the expertise of the architect is critical. What you described (other than the exterior doors and windows) is bits and pieces to improve style and fix problems. If there is a particular piece you need help with in the design you could hire someone to help with just that piece which should be cheaper than hiring someone to oversee all the projects.

What about removing the wall, raising the ceiling and adding a window? Would a structural engineer do, or do I need an architect for that?

An architect (or someone who has graduated and apprenticing at an architect firm) would be your best bet. If you put out feelers to friends/co-workers they may be able to give you a name of someone who works for a firm, but is not a partner yet. Usually they will hire out side projects inexpensively on their own time in order to make a little extra cash and gain the experience. Good Luck!

This is not a dumb question!

I think a lot of these issues, but not all, could be decided by a smart GC. I personally would pick a slightly higher-end one with excellent references,because it sounds like you're going to have a long relationship!

But I think an architect should be brought in too. I don't think you need a structural engineer. A lighting designer would be nice but the architect could probably cover that, esp. if you go with a firm that has one on staff.

It's possible, just, that an interior designer might be able to handle these things,but you would have to have an excellent designer AND GC who could relaly communicate. I think an architect might be a better bet.

If you can get plans of your house you'll be glad--structural issues are bound to arise and if you have plans you don't have to guess. In our town it's only $25 for them to do a search for the plans on file. However, it takes a month, and they don't guarantee they'll have anything.

I think it's wise to know everything you want to do at the beginning, even if you're only going to do it piecemeal. A good GC can help you come up with a plan (what things should be done in conjucntion with other things) that makes sense. Try to find an architect who has a relationship with a GC or vice versa.

HTH and good luck!

I second the suggestion to post to the remodeling and building forums. You might also want to talk to your town's building inspector to find out what kind of plans/documents have to be submitted to the town in order to get the permits (or it may be one permit for all these items). That could also be one of the deciding factors and each town has slightly different rules.

From our experience it helps if the people you hire have done a lot of good work in your town and are on "good terms" with the building inspector. Just in case anything unusual comes up during the course of the project

annab6

We didn't do as much work as you are contemplating, but we did make changes in three different areas of the house: a back stairway/entrance (separate from the other areas being renovated), the very large kitchen/family room, and the formal dining room (where we replaced big sliders with new French doors). It was a lot of "pieces," like removing the enclosing wall for the back stairs and replacing with open railings instead, replacing all the windows in the large family room, which including cutting in two new custom triangular windows flanking the fireplace and rebuilding the fireplace surround and hearth (we also added a bluestone mantel to the fireplace) and we had to have tie-rods installed across the vaulted ceiling since it was beginning to bow out. It was unclear whether the roof had to be jacked up for the tie-rods (eventually it was not -- the contractors who looked at the house differed as to whether it was necessary to do that or not and the architect said jacking was an option but not required). So we had lots of disparate "pieces" to our job (though we did do it all at once, not in stages). Here's what we did:

We hired an architect (who was a college friend of my husband's so I'm sure we paid a reduced rate, but it was well worth the $$ to have the plans in hand) to design the large area (kitchen/family) and to spec ALL the new windows, doors, etc. He provided drawings, including sketches for the light trough so the contractor would be able to build it to his specifications, etc. He designed the floor plan (layout) for the kitchen and we came up with a detailed plan of all the cabinets, sinks, appliances, etc. ourselves, mostly in VISIO on a PC. We were fortunate in having the original blueprints for the house (which was built in 1959, so that was lucky as I don't think we could have obtained them any place else...) so that helped the architect. (We also had to jackhammer a concrete slab with radiant heat embedded in it in order to install an island ... so this was not a simple kitchen remodel!)

Armed with his plan, we called general contractors that had been recommended to us, eventually talking with 7 and getting bids from 5. We walked through the house (much as you described doing in your other post) and pointed out exactly what we wanted done where. The contractors gave us their thoughts on some of the things, but all agreed to work with the architect if need be (though several were more accustomed to doing the design work themselves -- we simply presented it to them and told them we wanted it done as he had spec'd it). We were very flexible on things like the style of the back stairway banister.

None of our general contractors (some were individuals working alone, others were with larger firms) had a problem with working this way. None asked for fees for the original "ballpark estimates" we requested. Three of the five came in at about the same "ballpark" price (the other two were dramatically higher). We then went back to each of the three and asked for a more specific bid. Two of the three came back out, brought their subs, and provided (no charge) detailed bid proposals. The third one came back with a formal bid that was a third again higher than his ballpark estimate but contained no details, just a number. When we said that was out of our budget and could he provide us with the details of where the cost increases over his original estimate were coming so we could decide -- since we really liked him and he was our first choice, which we'd told him -- if we could cut/trim enough to keep his price competitive, he seemed very surprised (and annoyed) and said he "thought he had the job already" and wouldn't be willing to put the time into a detailed bid unless he had the job (huh???) (Actually, what he said was the way to cut costs was to "skip some of the work" which was our LAST resort, not our first resort!) So we simply moved on and dropped him from consideration. Of the remaining two, we got references, called them and talked at length (but did NOT go to see representative work, which we SHOULD HAVE DONE!) and finally just went with our gut instincts as to which contractor we could work best with. Not sure we made the right choice, but in general -- with the exception of the sheetrock work and some of the finishing details -- we are happy with the job.

So that's how we did it. We are in New England, and didn't sense that any of what we were asking was out of the ordinary for these guys. We paid the architect a fee (modest in the grand scheme of things and I imagine a good draftsman could have done the same thing he did -- we rejected some of his more "architectural" suggestions like the oval window over the baking area that would be non-operable but would provide "interesting visual space" -- I decided I needed fresh air in there more than interesting visual space!) but did not incur any fees in getting estimates from contractors. The architect's fee was money WELL SPENT! He had some very good suggestions (just not the oval window! ;) for some of our other challenges.

I found the whole process very confusing, but I didn't sense that any of the contractors found anything very unusual about being approached for a multi-faceted job like ours. In the end, we stayed CLOSE to our budget, at least for the actual construction, and were relatively (though not entirely) happy with the work. We did make crystal clear when we called each of these guys that we had lots of different things that needed doing, only some of which were "kitchen installation" (we bought our cabinets through a local lumber supply house and the contractor did all the installation, etc. -- we used a "KD" from the lumber supply store purely to place the order; we spec'd all the cabinet sizes and provided a detailed layout ourselves. We also made it clear that we understood there might be some "surprises" and that there might be some additional costs if that proved to be the case (though I must say the subs who came out to look were very thorough and in the end, we didn't have TOO much unexpected additional cost). You absolutely HAVE to be comfortable with the subs (plumber, electrician, etc.) in our experience. That was a big factor in our final choice (our gut reactions to some of the subs).

Sorry for the long post... it was a LONG process! (We probably spent about 3 times as long planning/interviewing/etc. as the work itself took!)

I think you would only need a GC. We are near the end (thankfully) of a similar size renovation, of a 1950s split-level brick ranch. We (or really, I) have been the GC. We havent used an architect.

We used a construction carpenter for a lot of the work (removing walls, adding walls, knocking out closet into bathroom, re-framing walls and building new joists for entirely rotten addition, framing and installing windows in addition, etc etc). Then of course other contractors for electrical (whole-house re-wire), plumbing (moved plumbing for kitchen and in some bathrooms), drywall, tiling, HVAC, and new windows throughout. Some of these contractors the carpenter knew and brought in, some we brought in ourselves. We've also done a lot of DIY (DH installed kitchen and bathroom cabinets, installed and hooked up all faucets/showers/appliances/light fixtures, we laid floors, refinished wood floors, etc).

We did not have a proper plan made by anyone -- I made plans myself that were very basic but were to scale and indicated everything clearly, and we went over these frequently with the carpenter and other contractors on-site. These seemed to work fine. I'm not saying that a plan wouldnt be great, just that I think you may really be fine going with a GC since you are not adding any new structures or changing the floorplan much.

We vaulted a ceiling and opened up 2 walls into very big openings, and we were confident in the carpenter doing these (e.g, he thought the walls were not load-bearing but he put in those big headers above the openings anyway).

At the end of the day, if you are confident in your GC, I think you will be fine.

Glad you decided on the kitchen layout!

great suggestions ...i'd probably find an architect for such a large project but, why would we call you names?

Oh, thanks, ctlady! That was extremely helpful. At the rate I'm going, we may be able to finance the whole house project by the time I get off the ground.

I just called the county recorder's office (we're in an unincorporated area, although you'd never know it by how densely populated it is -- life in So. Cal., I guess). Unfortunately, the house was built some time between 1962-1964 -- the records are a bit fuzzy because it was part of a subdivision -- and at the time, the county only required plans to be on file for 2 years before they were destroyed. Counting us, there have been only 3 owners, and no structural work requiring permits since it was built, which means there are no recent plans recorded, either. So, we're starting from scratch in the plans department.

Sarschlos - we vaulted our ceiling in our Great Room a couple of years ago. All my town required was a raised seal drawing from an architect. It wasn't easy to find someone that would just do that at a reasonable price, but I eventually found someone for $500. I don't think you necessarily need an architect for the rest of what you're doing, but you may need one for that piece of the job.

BTW....you mentioned coffered ceilings. Why will that make your 8ft. ceilings appear higher? I have 8 ft. ceilings and would love to do anythingn to make them appear taller. Actually, I'd love to do anything to make myself appear taller!!!!!!

Yeah, I have this feeling that the sticklers at county planning/zoning will require architectural drawings and a structural engineer for the wall removal, new window and vaulted ceiling, but the rest is non-structural so it should just be a matter of getting permits in order. Might be cheaper (permit wise) to have a whole house plan, but I don't know if it would make a difference since it would be a lot more $$ for the architect, too.

The coffer raises the center of the ceiling a few inches. I'm not talking about those old school beamed square coffers found often in old libraries. I'm talking about the trick used to give a greater feeling of height by raising the center slightly and using moldings around the edge. I've seen this quite a lot recently, and it really adds character and height. This isn't exactly the look I'm going for in my coffers, but it'll give you the idea of what I mean.

Here is a link that might be useful: Coffered ceiling

HI saraschlos --Glad all that typing was helpful! ;)

Our blueprints were useful mostly because we have radiant heat (in most of the house) in the CEILINGS (huh??) -- miles of copper tubing embedded in 1959 plaster. In the family room, they were embedded in the concrete slab -- which as you might imagine, severely constrains remodeling options! The plans showed where the tubing (theoretically) went, but everyone involved told us that plans are only as good as the degree to which the house was actually built TO them in the end. So I wouldn't worry about not having plans -- they are helpful, but not essential. A good architect can tell right away if a wall is load-bearing, for instance.

I thought the real (and priceless) value of our architect was that he saw the space in very creative ways -- quite differently than we did, but in the end (in our case, at least) he was dead on as to what worked for us. From BIG things to small details like a mirror behind the cleanup sink to reflect the woods and birds in the REAL window on the opposite wall!, he saw things in ways we just hadn't. I really think a GOOD architect is worth his weight in gold because he can "see" things you can't!

(kateshouros-- sarchlos took quite a drubbing, in my opinion, in another post ... I nearly weighed in in her defense on that one but I was so late in seeing all the posts that I didn't think I should jump in ... but what I DO think is important is that everyone on this forum and the other GW forums feel COMFORTABLE posting any question at all. Answers should be informative and helpful where possible, but FRIENDLY in EVERY instance! Just my two cents...)

I would also post on the building forum and remodel forum. There are contractors that just specialize in remodeling. I would ask at local lumber stores and hardware stores as these stores usually have info on contractors who do business with them. I would get bids also if I narrowed it down to 2 or 3 contractors. I think if you are only doing a few rooms at a time as you said you would do the kitchen first, you can go to HD or Lowes and have one of their kitchen designers come to your home and give you an estimate plus they will do a "plan" for your kitchen on their computer for a reasonable fee.
HTH

Honestly, with that amount of work you are planning, I'd first talk with a realtor about moving! I'm not kidding. Remodeling is VERY expensive when compared with new construction, and new construction can easily run about $300 a square foot plus for CA. Your list of wants might be better satisfied at less cost by moving to a different location. Or, consider a teardown. A LOT of the time, it's cheaper to tear everything down and start over rather than try to work within the parameters and constraints of the old. So, the first thing I'd do is consult a real estate agent to see if you're improving above what your neighborhood will support, and secondly to see if that additional 250K+ that this will cost will buy you a house with everything you want already done.

Thank you, live wire oak, but I must respectfully disagree with your opinion. We're staying. We love the house, even if it does need work. My question is only, and simply, who do I call?

Even though you respectfully disagreed with Live Wire Oak, I was thinking exactly the same thing. This is just MHO so please be civil!

What about the house at present DO you love?

From your description, it sounds like you should move out and gut the house. Rewiring and moving plumbing and replacing molding and windows are all very desctructive and would be h*ll to live through with small children.

We got a great deal on a house on two lots in a great neighborhood. Lived there for five years while contemplating the changes we wanted to make. (Add a garage suitable for today's cars, gut and remodel the kitchen, enlarge family room, add patio, go up-and-out to create a new master bed and bath. We actually did that part and enjoyed it for 3 years.) We concluded that we were trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Also, that we were pricing ourselves out of the immediate neighborhood and would never get our money back should we decide to move in the forseeable future. We took our time house hunting and found a house a few blocks away that had more of what we wanted and a lot of potential. ...Just food for thought.

Sarah -
I'm sorry that this has been kind of a demoralizing situation for you recently. You've been @ GW for a while, and your posts have always suggested that you are approaching your project in a very thoughtful way. I think you're going to end up with a renovation that makes you very happy.

We were very much in your shoes at one point: with a very significant project ahead of us, but no clear idea as to how to begin. We're in Boston, where, in order to pull the proper permits and get a zoning variance, we had to produce detailed plans. Seemed straightforward enough, however, we didn't want (or feel we needed, since, like you, we had a clear idea of what we wanted, and weren't interested in having somebody walk us through every tedious detail of the entire project). Also, it seemed crazy to spend lots of money for an architect's plans, only to find out down the road that the concept he'd developed would be too expensive to execute - or, better yet, wouldn't satisfy the local zoning board. With construction costs being very high here, we also wanted to put every $ we could toward the construction itself. The next snag was that in order to get a meaningful bid, we needed something pretty substantive in terms of drawings.

Anyway, I've not explained it very clearly here, but we found ourselves in a bind: had both the $$$ and the "vision" for what we wanted to see happen, but couldn't quite figure out the mechanics of what should happen next.

In the end, we had an extraordinarily successful experience by going this route: we asked a friend if she had any contacts for architects - turns out, she did. We called one that she recommended and told him that we wanted the most minimal and pared down of plans possible. He said that he'd be happy to have his apprentice work on it: the two of them came to our home (1902 colonial revival), spent two hours taking measurements, chatted with us for a bit, and went on their way. I've not seen them since!

The apprentice architect sent me plans a week later: 4 different scenarios. I told him which I liked, what I didn't, and what I wanted to change. We had a number of e-mail exchanges this way, until a short time later (10 days?), he produced a finished set of complete and beautiful drawings. And we were off! We paid the architect $3000. It would have been considerably more expensive to use the full services that many architects wish to provide (here the going rate is %10 - %15 of the total project - ouch). Anyway, those pared down plans were perfectly adequate, even for a major job: two story addition, kitchen, master bath, powder room, lots of custom carpentry, back porch, removal of walls (including one that was load bearing), etc.

Incidentally, I've heard that the design/build situation is the most expensive way to go. Anyway - hope some of this is helpful to you. I think you'll have good success with an apprentice architect (probably a lot of hungry ones out there, sad to say), or something along those lines. Best of luck!

Okay, here's what we love about the house (and it was love at first sight for my DH and me).

Huge 3-car garage with built in storage and a full 3-car driveway. MY DH has room for all his guy stuff, bikes, strollers, beach equipment, camping gear, my XMas decorations (there are a LOT), etc., etc., and we can still park a minivan and a car inside the garage (and get in and out, too).

Funky board and batten siding. Way cool.

Besides the original kitchen (semi-functional) that really just screams for a great room, the floorplan is fantastic. We use every inch of the house, but we're not crowded, either. We just FIT, and have room for company, too.

The master bathroom has plenty of room (no spa tub, but it's not something I would miss anyway), a large 3X6 shower, separate sinks, a separate, semi private toilet area, and a makeup vanity area. Practically unheard of in a house of this age.

Strangely, while my walk-in closet in our previous house was always overstuffed and a mess, my reach in closet here is organized and has plenty of space (even with my DH's dresser currently taking up 42" of the closet until I can make a nice niche to put it in). So while the bifold doors are ugly, and I want to make a nice niche between two closets for the dresser (an 1800s beauty that needs to come out of the closet), it's totally functional.

3'X 6' linen storage closet. Wow.

Built in book/glass door cupboards.

These funky cool curved apron front tile-in sinks in the kids' bathroom (original to the house, and we'll be keeping them).

Small toilets (the original owners must have been short because everything is lower than standard -- good for us, we're short too) perfect for my little ones to learn on; to be changed out after we complete the potty training years.

Ample closet storage.

Kids' bathroom has two sinks and semi-private toilet area behind 1/2 wall. Perfect configuration.

Powder room has a shower for guests. Guest room is on the main level -- no climbing 2 flights of stairs for my mom who can't climb stairs just to get to a shower/bed. Because the guest room is right behind the family room, it makes a perfect play room (and it's right next to a bathroom, too -- again perfect for little ones who often wait until the VERY last minute). Family room has a pocket door, so we can use it as a second guest room. With TV in the living room, guests and babies can go to bed and DH and I can stay up and watch a movie. Since our bedroom is on the other side of the house, we don't disturb anyone when we go to bed.

Laundry is right off of family room -- great for folding/sorting without being stuck in a laundry room by myself.

Did I mention all the closets? 3'X 6' game closet that we're going to closet scape to a games/coat/org closet right off of family room, entry, kids' rooms.

No giant staircase; the house is a split level that feels like a sprawling ranch, only more interesting, with just 5 steps from entry/living room to the main level and 3 steps from the main level to the kids' rooms. Just enough stairs to give me a grand entry area.

Gallery wall 1/2 flight up from living room.

Vaulted ceilings in living and dining rooms (will make a faboo vaulted great room once we knock down that wall between kitchen/dining and vault the ceiling in there).

Private master bedroom on the opposite side of the house from the kids' rooms.

Big picture windows (yes, they need replacing for energy efficiency, but the VIEWS are fantastic).

VERY private backyard that looks like a park (our lot includes the hill behind us; can't hear the neighbors, wouldn't even know we had them except that I can sometimes see the neighbor's satellite dish when the wind is blowing the trees).

Beautiful front-yard views of tree-lined street from floor-to-ceiling windows. Floor-to-ceiling windows in living room, but the way they're situated, we don't get any glare on the TV (first time ever for that).

Back of the house has a very indoor-outdoor living space feel with 4 very large sliders to our backyard park, and in our remodel we plan on making this even more so with a wall of glass doors/windows in the kitchen/dining great room (once we knock out that divider wall).

VIEWS, VIEWS, VIEWS

Fireplace in the living room (our TV room) with room for my reading chair in the corner with the floor-to-ceiling windows.

1/2 block away from one of the best elementary schools in the county, 2 blocks from the very excellent middle school, and 3 blocks from the equally excellent high school (i.e., no private school necessary)

This is a neighborhood that was a jewel when it was built in the late 1950s-early 1960s, and it remains a highly sought after neighborhood. So much so that I can use the name of the neighborhood as my mailing address instead of the city. Nearly impossible to get in, took us 4 years of searching to find a house we could afford in this neighborhood, but as children are growing up and moving away, more and more young upwardly mobile families are moving in and everyone is remodeling (or, if a house has not been well-loved over the years -- ours has been), tearing down and rebuilding.

We are not over-improving for the neighborhood. We only squeaked in because the market screeched to a halt and the PO were desparate to sell because they had already bought another house in another state (were moving to live near their only daughter, who had recently moved).

As far as the plumbing and electrical: we are only moving plumbing in the kitchen and we would raise the shower head or move it to an adjacent wall in one bath room. Everything else stays as is. Oh, and we're capping off an old wet bar to make room for our turtle's aquarium (we're not big drinkers and I prefer not to have that stuff in carpeted areas, anyway). Electrical does need to be updated -- we have a 100 amp circuit; adequate for now, but not once we update the kitchen.

We are not re-plumbing the house (it's got all new copper plumbing throughout). We're not moving or adding gas lines. Our range hood already vents to the exterior, and I've designed the new kitchen so that the range stays in the current location. The kitchen plumbing is not being moved across the room, just over a few feet. The plumbing is all exposed under the crawl space and easily accessed so it's not like we're digging in walls or through a cement foundation.

50 year roof that is 10 years old and very sturdy.

All asbestos/popcorn ceilings have been removed and retextured by PO.

Kids' bedrooms are right off of family room, not upstairs -- extended play space that I can keep an eye on (also important for coming teen years)

Computer/book space is in the family room, not upstairs in an extra bedroom or loft, so that DH and other computer users are all out in the living space and are PART of things (this is huge).

Old house charm. I hate California McMansions and have no intention of living in one. Ever.

Er, would you entertain an offer to buy your house? lol, you definately answered my question and I see your points. The house sounds like a keeper.

Back to your original question, I've never had need of an architect, but I would think a structural engineer consult early on would answer a lot of feasibility questions about load-bearing walls, etc., so that you could firm up your plans before you present them to potential GC's. Best of luck with planning.

Need a roommate? Sounds like heaven!

Thanks, teachbls! I think I'll try that. I got an estimate from one architect but it was based on a percentage of the total project and way out of my budget. That's why I called the design-build guy. Last time we got detailed architectural plans, so I thought that would be the way to go. Live and learn.

Yes, you will need proper plans, but if you've done even half the design work on the rest that you've done on the kitchen I really don't think you'll need an architect. You already have the vision.

What an architect will do for you is let you know if you have any design flaws. A structural engineer can give you some really marvelous plans according to what you've already designed, but won't necessarily know what you've done wrong.

It looks like the most major thing you're doing, structurally, is remove the wall, and the right sized beam and footings get looked up in a table. Anyone qualified to draw plans can do that.

You might start by interviewing everybody! Interview GC's. It's hard to know if you'll need a structural engineer for just a wall, but it sure can't hurt! Interview some. Interview architects. Once you're done with your interviews you should know where you need to start and have a good start on figuring out who you want to hire :)

Hmm. Not sure how to find a structural engineer. They seem to come with/from the architect around here.

I had a similar experience to teachbls, I think ... I am in San Francisco, bought a small SFR in a fantastic location that had had most maintenance deferred ... since 1972 ! When buying it I had grand ideas about building another storey, extending outward, excavating the basement etc. And I hired a "designer", who in California can draw up plans for homes smaller than a certain size (2 storeys and under, I think).

But I got caught in a vicious cycle, as teachbls pointed out. It went like this.
1. develop concept
2. run concept past a couple contractors, they would tell me "it will cost approximately $x. But I need complete set of drawings to give a firm bid".
3. have concept drawn up
4. get bids from contractors
5. bids invariably were twice the amount estimated at step 2. Scream with frustration
6. scale down concept and go back to step 1.

I spent 18 months and over $10k on design fees, going through three design cycles. I will never do that again. I fired the designer, did my own research on zoning and codes, and drew my own plans with the help of a former contractor I found on Craigslist. I pulled my own permits, interviewed a lot of carpenters and small-time contractors, and finally found a gem. My project is not complete but is going well, and is importantly on budget.

So my advice to you, such as it is, would be
1. if you hire someone to design for you, make sure they know LOCAL codes and zoning requirements.
2. if you hire someone to design for you, make sure they have a firm grasp of how much construction will cost. You need them to be straight with you on this.
3. THOROUGHLY investigate the impact that your project will have on any seismic requirements that your municipality might have. My project ended up being limited to what I could do without triggering a complete seismic upgrade to my house. I am not sure where in SoCal you are, but most likely earthquake country to some degree.

Good luck !

We're just beginning a remodel (Day 4) that sounds very similar to what you have in mind. Our house was also built in 1964. We've been in the planning stages for awhile with an architect and kitchen designer and I am so glad. The GC we're working with seems great (it's too early to hate him) but I really like having these guys on our side. Working out the design was fun and collaborative and I can now refer any questions to them. The charge for their services has been a bargain compared to what we have gotten and continue to get in return. We're raising the ceiling in the kitchen and there are structural issues that have to pass city inspection, as well as issues about the size and number of windows we're adding. I have enough to worry about (not to mention live through) and they handle this stuff with grace and ease. It's their, particular the architect's, area of expertise. We joke that their jobs are to keep us from doing anything stupid. But it's no joke. A.

First place to try to find an engineer is their society. This page has their tips for hiring a structural engineer.

Your house sounds lovely -- it just needs a little (or a lot) of tweaking. I, too, have been impressed with the thoughtfulness of your postings on your kitchen remodel, and I think you are wise at this point to ask what sort of professionals you should be using. I agree with the suggestion to post on the "Remodeling" and "Building a House" forums.

My instinct is that it would be good for you to hire an architect, but I would hope that you could find one who would not charge a percentage of the project, but just an hourly fee. We are doing an extensive remodel (complete master bathroom remodel (because shower leaked), a complete kitchen remodel, full remodel of built-ins in family room and in breakfast room, expansion of the laundry room, conversion of a small bedroom to a home office with built-ins, conversion of an attic into living space, and replacement of all the siding and windows). We started with a KD (when we were doing just a bathroom and kitchen remodel),then hired an architect who specializes in home office design to design our office(because the room is really small and somewhat challenging to have work space for two), and ultimately hired an architect to coordinate everything. A friend recommended the architect to me as someone willing to do small jobs, and he is happy to work with us. Basically he is helping coordinate everything, helping us finalize our plans, designing some of the plans, and helping us get bids from GCs. We signed a contract with him for a set # of hours, and if, as we expand the project (which we have), he thinks we will exceed the number of hours, he will let us know and we can decide if we want to keep using him or not. So far, he has been very helpful, and I have no doubt that our project will be better for using him. Before deciding to do such an extensive remodel, we looked at buying a different house, but we didn't see anything we loved. Furthermore, even with doing everything, we will have put less into this house than we would have spent on a different house (thanks to 20 years of appreciation of our house and the significant increase in home prices in our area during that time).

So, my bottom line is that with everything you are doing, I would recommend hiring an architect if you can find one who will work with you at a reasonable cost. Good luck!

sarcholos remodeler -

I remember a post from you a while back concerning your remodel and I think I sent you an email. Did you ever receive it? We are also in Orange County, and I recommended my wonderful GC. As far as your kitchen remodel, we also had the wall between the dining room and kitchen removed, but we also pushed out the old, tiny kitchen five feet. Besides the kitchen we had a lot of miscellaneous projects done at the same time, tear out of brick fireplace and replacemtent, some new windows and doors, painting, crown moulding and baseboards, etc. etc. I just had a penchant for adding more things.

We hired a designer to help us plan the kitchen because it was just so small and we felt the work she did was well worth it. We did get our house plans from the city, had architectural plans drawn and we also used a structural engineer. Our job took just about thirteen weeks, we felt the crew was both very professional and efficent. There was always someone here working.

This job was finished early last summer. This year we'll have the same crew remodel upstairs.

Good luck with your remodeling. It was certainly an adventure for us. Besides the work on the first floor of our home, we had some projects on the second floor done at this time also...like painting and having the ceilings peeled in our other bedrooms. Basically, during our remodel we lived in our bedroom and had our computer in another bedroom.

Claire

no advice here, just support - sounds like you have some great chime-ins from people who are in your area. My only thought (which has been answered!) is to look at what the permitting process requires as an idea - for instance, in South Orange, NJ, my brother had to get a structural engineer to sign off on plans for removing a load-bearing wall, while all we had to do in Charlottesville, VA was to have the piece of paper (spec'd with our address) from the building supply store with the loads for the LVLs we bought. You may have restrictions in your area as well.

Great question, BTW, very thoroughly thought out. Good luck.

Interesting thread. As a rookie I'm not sure I have that much to offer, but some thoughts (I'm home with the flu today, so apologies if I'm less than coherent!)

- in looking for original plans for your house, can you check neighbours with the same model (assuming there are multiple examples)? Wwe live in a pocket of about 20 of these little bungalows (there were 3 original designs, although they've been so altered over the years sometimes it's hard to realise!) and when we started working on plans for ours, I looked at as many of our neighbours' houses as I could, mostly to see how they had solved the problems this old house presented. I learned A LOT, and it really helped when we started considering what could/couldn't be done, and where the original bones were (since our house had already had some alterations made by previous owners).

- from your post I get the feeling that you want to hand off a lot of the "hard work" stuff to professionals, but also that you want to have tight control on decisions. I will say that in reading here and elsewhere, the folks who seem UNhappiest with their remodeling experiences are those who've handed off to the professionals on the assumption it would all work out the way they wanted BECAUSE those people were professionals (bad English, but I hope that makes some kind of sense). For a project as substantial as you're considering, I do think you'd really REALLY help yourself by finding a design program you're comfortable using and drawing things - both for yourself, AND for the people you hire. My GC has repeatedly told me that part of the success of this project - and one of the reasons he could keep costs down - was because the drawings I gave him made it 100% clear what I wanted to do. Sure, it was his job to figure out HOW to do it structurally, but by working together - often with the design on the laptop so we could show each other what we were talking about - we avoided costly miscommunications. There are a lot of user-friendly programs out there more intuitive than the two you mentioned and, in your case, it might be a couple of hundred dollars and a few hours well spent. And it will give you WAY more control over the project, as your own understanding of what's happening will be greater.

- I think whether or not you need an architect or structural engineer will depend on local requirements; what you're doing sounds like a really good GC could handle it UNLESS there are CA-specific requirements which insist that specialists handle specific areas. We did a fair bit of structural work, but our municipality is one that has a very easygoing attitude about permits - basically, if you don't change the footprint, they don't really care (we heard this from multiple GCs, builders and neighbours, so it wasn't just one person's opinion). We have managed wonderfully with a GC who handled everything (literally - no subs). It's worked well for us, but I suspect in CA the story may be different. Talk to neighbours who've done work and interview loads of folks across the range of price bands and see what you can glean in talking to them (I learned a LOT talking with the other 5 contactors - the ones we didnt' hire). You need to get a feel for the many different ways a project like yours could be approached.

- "phase" the work. This is something our GC did that made it HUGELY easier. He broke it down, in order, so we could see where we were going and how it would all work (essentially it was: 1. create access to attic ie build the new stairs 2. reinforce and finish attic 3. holiday break 4. work on removing or framing wall between kitch/diner as appropriate 4. install kitchen). We were never in any doubt as to the PROCESSS so, even when we had to make adjustments or there were (minor) delays, we knew how it would all fit in.

- while obviously you will need to forward plan so that initial work doesn't then have to be changed to accommodate subsequent work, be prepared to be FLEXIBLE. One of the reasons our project has run smoothly is because while we had a clear plan, both sides were willing to adjust as necessary during the process - it wasn't a case of clinging to ideas which simply wouldn't work in reality once we got inside walls to see what was there etc. That's another thing, too - beware ANYBODY who can "promise" that something will work before opening up a wall or seeing what's really there (think of all the threads in here where people have been disappoinited and had to make significant changes once a wall was opened and revealed something other than was supposed). There is ALWAYS a workaround, but, IMO rookie opinion, it's easier to find those when you don't cling to fervently to one single idea . This is also where being able to draw ideas for YOURSELF comes in handy, since you can play "what if" and come up with possible alternatives (I know I keep harping on about this despite the fact you said you DON'T want to do that, but I truly believe it will help enormously in so many ways). I had several "contingency" plans already thought of just in case we had issues with, for instance, taking down the wall. In the event it wasn't a problem, but I figured I'd better have more than one way of doing it just in case!

Sorry for the rambling nature of this - I'm not sure I'm necessarily addressing your specific questions, but just some ideas fwiw. Start compiling lists of local requirements/experiences/contacts via neighbours and local friends and colleagues, consider buying a user-friendly home-design program so you can play "what if?" for yourself and also create drawings of your ideas which will be clearer than any description (and also avoid a "middle man" interpreting what you describe, sometimes leading to misunderstandings and disappointment), be willing to stay flexible as variants arise when the work begins and things aren't quite as anticipated, and most importantly... ENJOY the process! I confess that I have found it HUGELY enjoyable, much to my surprise. Yes, stressful - particularly at first before I "got used to" people coming in and cutting my house in half as a matter of course!! - but fascinating and very rewarding.

Best of luck!

Claireanne,

I never received your email. Could you try to resend it? I had a problem with the email link on My Page (hopefully it's been fixed now). Did you find your architect and designer through your GC? Can you send me their names, too (assuming you were happy with them as well as your GC)? Your project sounds very similar to mine in terms of the types of work being done. Were you required to have detailed drawings to remove the wall? I was considering bumping the back wall by 4-5 feet (to gain a bit more space in the master and dining room, too), but the design-build guy I spoke with seemed to think it would not be worth the cost.

I worked with a design build company. It consisted of an architect and a designer. I did alot of the things you did (removed a wall between kitchen/dining room. Opened up an enclosed stairway. Redid plumbing, electric. All walls down to studs). The thing I really liked was they did everything. Did the designs, got the permits, hired all the subs (people they always worked with). Any problems or concerns were handled by them. One phone call from me and problem handled. No fights between architect and GC ect... I know this is a more expensive way to do things but the lack of hassle was well worth it. Good luck.

I personally agree with live wire oak's advice. However, since you are fixated on fixing this to your vision, I would suggest hiring an architect to help you thru the process

Question for berryberry and live_wire_oak. Not sure I understand how a tear down and rebuild would be more affordable than fixing what needs fixing on the existing house -- assume that there is no possibility of selling this house and buying new. Could you please explain?

Other than minor plumbing work in the kitchen area, all of the plumbing is good; roof is good; gas is good; HVAC is newish 2003; we have new ducts; new-ish gas furnace good for another 7-10 years; newish garage doors; nice patio.

I think we're looking at about $250K total for the things we want to do around the house, including kitchens and baths. We will be living in the house at the time the work is going on, so we won't have the added expense of rent on top of the construction.

I can't imagine a tear down in OC Cal. + plans for an entire new house (will have to be custom because the house has to fit the slope of the hill it's built on) + construction + new landscaping + rental for the year or so it takes to do all this would be less money than new doors and windows, new kitchen and replacement of bathroom fixtures? Please elaborate. What am I missing?

Just throwing my two cents in - I've done both: hire the outside, independent architect then the builder (they worked together in the past but I didn't know that at the time) AND hired a design/build firm - Our experience was that the design/build route was MUCH cheaper - we had full plans (as-built, design, structural, construction, electrical, etc) done for 1/10th (literally) than we'd paid our last architect - our GC's design/build firm provided the architect and they took care of the structural issues (there were plenty) - my advice is interview and get bids from both because maybe it's different across the country but I can't see hiring an architect again if I were to do another project.

Well, carp. Now I'm totally confused.

sarscholos remodeler -

I sent you an email with the names of both my GC and designer.

The way our project worked, if I recall correctly, was that we did get a ballpark quote (free) from the GC we were interested in. We asked for a recomendation for someone to help with the design and she charged us $125 an hour, for a min of 10 hours of work. We met her and talked about our vision and specifics and she came back to us with two plans. Her plans not only included the kitchen but also a few other details like a simple room switch. We really liked what she had designed for us and after reworking it here and there, then passed us off to a designer for the architectural drawings at a cost of $2000. Our plans went to the structural engineer and his fee was $3500...our job was small, but this apparently was his minimum fee. After that, the plans went to the City for approval. By the way, we did also get a copy of our original house plans too.

Hope this helps.

Claire

Thanks, Claire. I emailed you back before I noticed this post. This looks like it is much more in our ballpark. We are not able to get a copy of our original house plans, and unfortunately the houses in our neighborhood are all custom because they are built to fit the various slopes of the hills, so I can't borrow someone else's either.