I am sure she is just probably terrified right now. It is a scary thing to have to face.
If you know anyone that has been through it, especially for breast cancer, try and get them in touch with each other.
After my sister went through it, and I remember the many times she wanted to quit, she now has a wonderful sisterhood of friends that went through the same journey.

Give her a pink heart pin, and tell her you will be there for her.

Trin

My sweet Uncle Gene refused it.
He has been "frail" the past few years though. He has many problems. It will be 2 years in May the Doc told him he has cancer, its next to his esophogus (sp) They gave him the option of treatment which would have killed him and just made him sick the rest of his days IMO. He opted not to start radiation and chemo. They gave him a few months!!! I am thinking it was 6? He is still alive!!! Still cracking jokes and watching his beloved Vikings and Twins in the summer. I treasure each and every day with that man!

I have known people who refused it but it has always been people in a later stage and people who had been told that it probably wouldn't help. Stage 1 usually means that the cells are all contained at the original site and haven't spread to other areas. They lymph node thing would bother me. I had the option but truthfully, I wanted every available option for survival ...I knew chemo wasn't pleasant to go through and that it does have side effects but it is much better now than in the old days. I had 19 positives in and around the cancer/tumor and while my surgeon and Onc left it up to me...I decided to do it.

I guess it is a decision that everyone faces at some point or the doctor makes the decision for you.

Would she feel better getting a second opinion -- at a different hospital/city? That would sound pretty extreme to me for a lumpectomy and Stage 1 cancer diagnosis, but...cancer cells that have spread to a lymph node makes this more complicated. (I'm NOT a doctor, not even on TV.)

We've known at two men who declined treatment, and one woman I wish had made that decision. In all cases the projected chances of cure were slim. The men went into hospice care and were dead in a few months. The woman (and extended family) endured a year of chemo and died.

For breast cancer, there is a test that can be done on the tumor called the Oncotype DX. It tests something like 21 molecular levels. She should ask her doctor about it.

The test results will be in the form of charts and graphs of how the tumor ranked in every category of those moleculor levels and they provide a summary showing the likelihood of THIS PARTICULAR CANCER recurring ... Low Risk, Medium Risk, or High Risk. That will help her be comfortable with her decision. My tumor was low risk which, combined with NO lymph node involvement and my age, allowed me to (fairly) comfortably choose not to have Chemo. If it had been Medium or High risk, I would have done it.

I'm guessing it's the lymph node involvement that has her doctor recommending chemo. If a cell gets in your lymph nodes, it can travel throughout your body and take up residence/grow where-ever it settles.

Suzanne Somers refused it. She had breast cancer and investigated alternative solutions rather than chemo and radiation. I think she's written a book about it. My two sisters have had breast cancer. First one at age 57 and given a 30% chance of a five year survival. We interviewed four different drs. and went with one who essentially saved her life. It's been 16 years. Second sister had it at age 54, partial mastectomy, with chemo and radiation just like the first and she's fine too. Sooooooo theres more than one way I guess.

I've never heard of a stage 1 that involved any kind of lymph nodes. That doesn't seem right. Yes, I know people who have refused chemo, but it's improved and doesn't cause as much illness as it did years ago. It's certainly her choice to make.

I've never heard of a stage 1 that involved any kind of lymph nodes. That doesn't seem right. Yes, I know people who have refused chemo, but it's improved and doesn't cause as much illness as it did years ago. It's certainly her choice to make.

I know this thread isn't about Suzanne but truthfully I think there was a lot of hokey pokey going on in her advice and all her theories about breast cancer. She had a lumpectomy, and a sentinel node biopsy and radiation....which means that there probably wasn't a big need to do chemo. She is a flim flam artist in my opinion, and has done some disservice to women with breast cancer.

I forgot to add....which is the same diagnosis that I had and they suggested to me that there was no reason for chemo. I did have two surgeries but that was because the first biopsy was deemed negative and the one that was sent off, was positive so they went back in to make "sure" that all the edges were clean...but they told me no chemo was necessary.

I've never had cancer and do not want to offend anyone with my advise. I am into everything natural and I don't even like to take prescription medications. If this was my diagnosis and I had to choose I would most likely have the chemo. Unless there was another option that was as effective at destroying cancer cells. I would first get a second opinion. If my oncologist advised chemo I would have the treatments. I would add natural and holistic therapy to help me through the cancer in addition to the chemo.
Of course I can't say for sure what I would do because you never know how you would react unless you are in the situation.
I hope you take some time to make your choice. I wish you a healthy body.
Donna

From what I have read, the studies have shown that the chance of survival is much better when someone has either chemo or rads after surgery. Since the doctors suggested both to her my guess is that she should do both. Who knows how many lymph nodes have the spread of those little suckers.

I had 3 different chemos and sailed through this treatment. Thanks to nausea meds I didn`t have a hint of nausea at all. I was told to eat small frequent meals and went to the Red Lobster and pigged out twice in the 6 months I had chemo and had a short bout of the runs each time. No mouth sores, just fatigue and chemo fog. Sure I lost my hair but loved my chemo hair when it grew back in curly. Would have loved it if the curls stayed but alas by the third haircut they were all gone.

Would I do it again to save my life. You bet!

There different types of tumours, estrogen and progesterone sensitive ones and Her2neu types. Without going into a lot of details, the oncologist knows from the biopsy how fast the type is likely to spread and what treatments are best. Unless your co-worker is medically well versed, she should take the advice of the oncologist who knows best.

Thirty years ago my dad had surgery for colon cancer and was deemed "clean" afterward, no chemo needed. It was back within a year so I'm always wanting to shout at anyone who questions the need for chemo (especially if a node was involved!) to just do it! I believe the woman's age (b/a menopause) also has something to do with it, concerning bc. I too have a thing with chemicals and toxins, but these days there's no escaping them. I'm not sure just what she's afraid the chemo will do-- bring on more cancer?? That's crazy. Personally, from what you have told us here, I don't see why she wouldn't do the chemo. Much good luck to her and I hope she is cured forever.

I've been through cancer treatment and am a 22-year survivor. I did all that the doctors advised. The side effects were not as bad as I feared, and I was cured.

Just because your friend reads something in print doesn't mean it's true or good advice.

Cancer treatments are being updated and improved all the time.

Please encourage her to have all of the treatments the doctors recommend. It is in her best interest.

The last thing she wants is a recurrence.

I'd be much more wary of the radiation than I would of the chemo. There have been articles within the last week to 10 days about how radiation treatments are often screwed up. I know for a fact that after my mother's radical mastectomy, the radiation she received was about 10 times what the doctor had ordered (a substitute technician at the second-to-last treatment is the one who told us); and that's what ultimately killed Mama.

If there is no statistical improvement in the five year odds of survival with chemo, there is no reason to endure it. Five years ago, my husband refused chemo because his stage 2 colon cancer odds of survival would increase from 74% to about 76% with chemo. Not nearly enough to support the misery he would have had to go through with chemo. It was a good decision.

Chemo is indeed devastating to many people. It is necessary for many, but not for all. She should study the odds for her particular cancer and make an informed decision, which is extremely difficult to do when under the stress of a cancer diagnosis, especially when her oncologists may be advising chemo. It was difficult for Hub, a well-versed medical writer, to tell his onco, "No," but he did it. He has had no recurrances.

Sherry

One of my co-workers was diagnosed with Stage 1 breast cancer. She had the lump removed, and some cancer cells were found in a lymph node.
She does not have Stage 1 if it has spread to the lymph nodes.

See Stages of Breast Cancer. See also the 5 year survival rate for the different stages. I would imagine that those 5 year survival rates reflect patients that have had surgery, and whatever was deemed necessary to assure getting rid of it entirely...surgery, chemo, radiation.

She worries how she might react to the chemo.
Yes, I'm sure she is scared, that is natural.

I am a 3 year BS survivor. I was diagnosed with stage 2. My lymph nodes were clean, but the size was slightly over the stage 1 size. Chemo and radiation were both suggested. I was scared and so depressed at the thought of going bald. I was given a choice of 2 different chemo therapies. One was for fewer treatments (4 I think) spaced X number of weeks apart, and there would be total hair loss. Another one was for more treatments (6 I think) spaced farther apart, but hair loss was estimated to be about 50%. Naturally I went with the one with 50% hair loss. Yes, I lost about 50% of my hair, and toward the end I thought I looked like a drowned rat, but there were coworkers who did not notice or know what I was going thru.

Chemo for me was not bad at all. BF went with me the first time, and I think we went out to eat on the way home. After that I went by myself, and always ate out and shopped after the treatment. I only felt bad 1 day after having the treatment. I had treatments on Thursdays, and on Friday I felt like I was supercharged. Saturdays I just felt icky and pampered myself by doing nothing that day.

I'd suggest she find out all of the different options there are for chemo. Yes, it is all poison, but a necessary evil, and it doesn't have to be the kind that knocks all of her hair out.

btw...when my hair came back in, it was really curly (thus my member name, chemocurl), and I had a great stylist, and I loved the cut. I could wash it, comb it with my fingers and it dried perfectly. After having chemo, what little gray hair I had didn't return until several years later.

I also had 6 weeks of radiation and never missed a day of work because of it. I was tired, but I attribute that to stress and depression as much or more than the radiation

If she would care to talk to me, I'd be glad to talk to her and try to give her some reassurance. Just email me via my Member Page email link.

Sue

I've had very intensive chemo twice in my life. The first time was in the early 70's when I was in high school. I didn't refuse it but I really complained about how it was ruining my life at the time and my parents and my oncologist agreed I could end it earlier than planned. (My chance of 5 yr survival was less than 20% so I guess they just wanted me to enjoy whatever short time I had left).

Flash forward 10 years and I was diagnosed with a recurrence. More than a few times I've thought that had I just finished the chemo as originally planned it might have knocked out whatever residual cells were lingering that led to the recurrence. Oh well, I'll never really know for sure.

The second time I had it I went to MD Anderson Cancer Center. They were very aggressive with the chemo and I was all for it that time around. Bring it on - as much as possible. When I went back to my local doctor he was "afraid" to give me as much prescribed by the MD Anderson protocol. I practically had to fight to get the full amount prescribed and believe me I did.

You can choose to do what is easiest and most palatable in the short run or you can choose to do what has the greatest chance of curing you if you have an early stage cancer that has a chance of being cured. I now go for the cure - not five year or even ten year survival.

I've had massive amounts of very toxic chemo with no long term side effects. And in my case the benefits far outweighed any potential risks. Everyone's case is unique though and in many cases there's not an entirely clear answer. That problem is complicated by the fact many physicians are not up to date with the most current medical evidence about optimal treatments.

For patients who want a higher level of information about medical evidence than what they get with Google, there is a product called UpToDate that is used by thousands of physicians worldwide. They also have a product for patients that you can subscribe to and gain access to professional level information written in lay terms. It's also at a 12th grade level vs. the 6th grade level offered by websites like WebMD. This is very good information for people who really want to be well educated with the most current medical evidence about their conditions.

Here is a link that might be useful: UpToDate for patients

Wow--I wasn't expecting such a large response, but I should know better than to underestimate the KT. Thank you so much for sharing your stories and advice. I'm passing your posts on to my friend, who is certain to appreciate them.

I hope I'll never be in her situation myself, but we can never be sure. In any case, the information you shared is good to know.

Thanks again.

Susan

I have a friend who had breast cancer. She didn't want to have chemo, but her daughter insisted. Barb had a long hard fight, but she is a lot better now and is still here enjoying every day.
Please get the chemo.

My 13 yr. old cousin died of lung cancer years ago. I was also 13 then. She and her family refused chemo. as her cancer was very aggressive. She and her family chose not to do chemo as they knew there was no hope and she wanted to die without being fried and feeling worse then she already did. Chemo would not have prolonged her life. Doctors fought the family and they were ordered to follow through on chemo against their wishes. She only had one round and became so sick that it was stopped. She died soon after. My father had pancreatic cancer. Also very aggressive. He refused chemo and we agreed with his decision. There was no use prolonging his pain and misery when his cancer was so aggressive that hope was minimal. He chose to not fight the cancer and died at home calmly four months after being diagnosed. Now, I am talking about 2 very aggressive cancers. I am sure that if I had breast or ovarian cancer or any other that I could stand a chance against, I would probably choose to fight it. An aggressive cancer that I had a very small chance to beat... I would choose to die without my body being tortured any more than necessary. That's just me.

I don't know your co-worker or the specifics of her diagnosis but it seems to me that she must be terrified and unsure of her options. Her decision to avoid further treatment at this stage baffles me. Perhaps she needs more time to process everything that's happening to her. I hope she has family and friends that she can talk to. I wonder if it would help if she spoke with other women who have had similar experiences? There must be support groups in her area that could contact.

Wow - not at that early stage. I have known 2 people
who refused Chemo and Radiation, but it was after way
too much, and it wouldn't have given them more than
a couple of extra days anyway. The grief wasn't
worth it to them.

But - I find it hard to understand, that her main concern
is the side effects of the chemo, and not the side
effects of the growing cancer.

I am so sorry, she obviously is scared (and rightly so).
Hope she can talk to someone who can help her with her
fears and make a good decision for her.

Orie my type of cancer was the most aggressive breast cancer you can have. By doing chemo I am alive today, almost a 10 year survivor with no signs of it right now. Would I do it again? In a heartbeat!

I cells were found in the lymph nodes she is stage 2 or 3, not stage 1. If she doesn't understand that then she needs to have further discussions with her oncologist. Chemo is not like it used to be. I realize it may not go smoothly for everyone, but they now have excellent medications to control some of the side effects. My mother was never sick from it (she did lose her hair), she actually gained weight (she was quite thin and we worried she would get too skinny, so we constantly fed her). My former MIL did get a little nauseous, but amazingly she didn't lose her hair.

She may be worried about the reactions to the chemo (nausea, hair loss, fatigue), but I would be worried about the reaction from not having chemo - a greater chance of death. Hair or death? I'd rather lose my hair. I don't mean to be flip, but I have seen many people react illogically to a cancer diagnosis. These were not dumb people, I'm sure it was denial and shock. Your friend may be going through that.

I agree with what Sherrmann said If there is no statistical improvement in the five year odds of survival with chemo, there is no reason to endure it. and She should study the odds for her particular cancer and make an informed decision, which is extremely difficult to do when under the stress of a cancer diagnosis, especially when her oncologists may be advising chemo..

I don't agree with what Sherrmann said. If there is no statistical improvement in the five year odds of survival with chemo, there is no reason to endure it.

Remember that all statistics are old. That is why they are called statistics. There are always new studies and new treatments being introduced. The only statistic that is really important is your own.

The odds for 5 year survival of my type of cancer weren't good. Without treatment I likely would have lived only a few months. In fact one of my relatives was told that when I was first seen, they thought I had about 6 months to live. I was stage 3B on diagnosis. I literally woke up to a red swollen breast that blossomed overnight and mimicked mastitis. The surgeon did a needle biopsy and gave me the results in half an hour. She rushed it and sent it to the pathologist to be read stat. I will never forget what she said. "Years ago, I would have told you to go home and write your will. Now there is hope." The hope was the chemo. In June we will celebrate my 10th year of survival.

I don't think that oncologists for the most part advise people to have chemo unnecessarily. They realize that the quality of people's life is important. They are used to dying patients and are used to being brutally honest when there is no hope.

I think Heather has made a really good point. There are new treatments, procedures and trials that offer improved odds for many cancers. So even if her 5 year survival rate isn't fantastic today - there could be a new drug or treatment just around the corner that increases her odds.

I agree that Heather made a good point... I hadn't really thought about statistics that way. However if a doctor told me I'd get maybe an additional few months to live with chemo... I'd probably skip the chemo and I'd try to enjoy the time I had left (after I'd got a second medical opinion, doctors do make plenty of mistakes).

I reread the OP and if the lymph nodes are affected I most certainly think she should have chemo. From Imaginus.com Though breast cancer has the potential to spread to other regions of the body first, it most commonly spreads first to the axillary (underarm) lymph nodes. This is known as regional spread. From there, the breast cancer can metastasize (spread) systematically to other areas of the body (such as the bone, liver, lung, or brain).

My DH refused chemo last fall after having a cancerous tumor removed from his bladder. His Dr thought he'd be fine without it, but would test again in six months. We have no health insurance and DH thought $400 X 6 treatments was more than we could afford.

msmarion, please don't second-guess your/his decision.

Sherry
PS The health insurance situation in this country stinks. Big Time!

Msmarion, your DH's doctor thought he would be fine without chemo but will probably follow him closely. If it was really necessary, I'm sure your doctor would have really pushed for it or found a way to get him the chemo.

In Alisands co-workers case, chemo and radiation are both recommended. That alone tells me that the breast cancer is serious since now in Ontario they are recommending chemo or radiation on all early breast cancer since studies are showing that this greatly reduces the chance of recurrence.

I am very thankful that I had chemo and radiation available to me after my breast surgery. I am fine now and pray my cancer never returns!

if she conssiders her family and what they'll do if she dies from this horrid diease, maybe she reconsider.

my uncle has been recieving chemo off and on for YEARS...his docs consider him a miracle...he's in remission now...

i have a dh, 4 kids and soon to be 8 grands. i did chemo and radiation in a heartbeat. my lymph nodes were clear, btw, and the surgeon removed the lump and some suround tissue (which was also clear) my hair is coming back, beginning to lose a pound or 2 (yea!)

we had a nutritionist at our cancer center, yoga instructor, so she can be healthy as possible, saving herself...

Heather's twin adding my thoughts - she definitely would not be alive today had she refused treatment. I'm sure it wasn't easy to face but the survival rate for IBC at the time was only 16% five year with mets. It was stage 3B on diagnosis as Inflammatory Breast Cancer always is. The only statistic that really applies to you is the one that you create. I'm so thankful she went ahead with the recommended treatment.

The link below has some good info about Advanced (Metastatic) Breast Cancer, which is cancer that has spread past the lymph nodes. Unless I really did not care if I lived or died, there is just no way that I wouldn't follow the advice of an Oncologist.

If in doubt, I suggest she call the American Cancer Society and get some literature from them to read and absorb. They were also great to listen to me express my many concerns and they then sent the appropriate literature.

Also from the link below:
Where Can Breast Cancer Spread?

Breast cancer can spread to almost any area of the body. The most common regions that breast cancer may spread to in order of frequency are:

* Bone
* Lung
* Liver

Here is a link that might be useful: Advanced (Metastatic) Breast Cancer

You definitely have to take the statistics with a grain of salt. In my case there was less than a 20% chance I would survive even with aggressive chemo - that was 36 years ago. You never know if you'll be in the 20% or the 80% or the 5% or the 95%.

I just have to say how encouraging and enlightening this thread is. I'm so pleased and touched to see how many people have beaten the odds. Gibby3000 is absolutely right - you never know which group you'll be in.

Alisande, I would definitely encourage your friend not to reject chemo just because it's toxic. It seems to me that she has the choice to either keep the toxic crap that's already inside her or to fight it with more (and hopefully helpful) toxic crap from the outside.

When my intellectually-inclined friend Chris had breast cancer, she investigated all the information in the universe.

She opted for lumpectomy & chemo, & she's in excellent health today.

As someone said above, the toxicity of chemo isn't as virulent as that of cancer cells.

Sometimes even forest rangers have to fight fire with fire;

If someone told me I had cancer cells in my lymph nodes, I'd take every kind of chemo I could beg, borrow, or steal.

I haven't been here in ages but saw this post.

I was Stage 1 bc and did not have chemo. The risks of chemo far outweighed the benefits of having it. Chemo can kill, too.

It's a personal decision and nobody - and I mean NOBODY - should push advice one someone dealing with cancer. It's her decision and hers alone.

It's a personal decision and nobody - and I mean NOBODY - should push advice one someone dealing with cancer. It's her decision and hers alone.

Thanks for sharing your experience, Chloe. I don't think anyone's pushing. I agree that it's a personal decision; when my co-worker chose a lumpectomy + radiation over a mastectomy and no radiation, it's not what I would have chosen, but that wasn't relevant.

We arrive at our personal decisions by weighing information, and I think the experiences shared in this thread represent valuable information. I've printed them out and given them to her without comment--in fact, since she and I work different shifts, I simply left them on her desk. I have no idea at this point how she is (or isn't) going to proceed with treatment.

I meant to add that before I posted this thread I asked if she would like me to consult with some online friends about the issue, and she thought that was a good idea. If she had said, "No, that's not necessary," I would have dropped it.

You're a good friend, alisande.