Umm... my guess is that you could stand to update your boiler - both in terms of efficiency and that it's probably nearing end of lifespan. Someone who knows this boiler better can correct me.

That said, another option is simply to install a domestic water heater (tank or tankless) and replace the boiler when you can. A gas tank water heater is what... $500-600 installed. A gas tankless would $1500-2000 probably. An electric tank would be less than the gas tank heater.

or you can install a system 2000 which will cut your fuel cost by 40% and make more hot water than you can ever use, the boilers you mentioned will not cut your fuel cost by 40 % and they will be louder than the boiler you have know

Forgot to add it's an oil fired hot water heating system with cast iron radiators.

I looked into System 2000 and it sound great I just cant find too much feedback on it...so I'm leery.

I would replace both pieces, but do your homework thoroughly. It seems like anything 'new fangled' (aka, has built-in electronics), can tend to be less reliable than your 50 year old system. Not a scare tactic, just a realistic view from an IT industry professional.

I steered clear of the aluminum boilers and the most modern units. I personally chose a model that's about 15 years old and 87% efficient. Just enough to get the Energy Star logo. Old enough to be refined. The energy usage between my new system and the old is drastically different. $19 / mo summer bills vs. $80 / mo summer bills with the old system. $180 / mo winter vs $380 / winter with the old.

I'm sure you'll come out ahead if you update.

I have a suggestion... give a look at the NTI companies Matrix product, they build a wonderful product... modulating boiler / forced air heat / hydronic / Domestic instant hot water... AND HRV is fantastic .. All this in one product. give it a look see.

Here is a link that might be useful: NTI

I'd rather stick with a 3 pass boiler.
Does anyone have comments on Burnham MPO, Budarus G115WS, Weil McLain WGO/WTGO or other similar efficient 3 pass boilers that wont give me much trouble?

Oh, how about Slant/Fin XL-2000?

Are there any boilers brands/models you would NOT consider?

I keep finding more questions to ask...

Which is the better oil burner, Beckett, Carlin or Riello?

Riello scares many people but once you know it, it's a good burner. Beckett is also very good. efm makes a time-proven and simply-designed triple pass boiler with an AFUE of 86% using a Beckett AFG burner. They aren't in your area, but are shippable.

Around here, the System 2000 is considered troublesome, whether true or not. Too much electronics, limited service persons and $$$.

I don't know where you live baymee but EK is pretty big in the NE and AK. I'm not sure what "too much" electronics is. It has one electronic control, the manager. Everything else is standard, off the shelf stuff that any half-way competent tech should have or be able to get readily. Even if the manager should fail, there is a simple board that will take its place temporarily until a replacement is obtained so you're not out of heat or hot water.

As boiler and furnace controls are modernized, most warm air and hydronic controls are now electronic. Warm air furnaces started phasing in solid state panels many years ago. Hydronic controls use thermistors and replaceable plug in relays.

Any boiler that has outdoor reset has, guess what, electronics.

I think it's like someone saying, "I want a new TV, but it's got to have vacuum tubes. Solid state is too confusing."

Stuff I'm reading online in HVAC forums is influencing me toward these systems in order of preference...all with indirect hot water storage tank.

First: Budarus G115WS (with Logamatic control)
Second: Burnham MPO (with Tekmar boiler control 260)
Third: System 2000

First: Riello burner
Second: Carlin burner
Third: Beckett burner

Even though Weil McLain is a dominate brand suggested by family/fiends and oil companies, I'm not sure I like the idea of "Captured Seals" for longevity.

Any thoughts/preferences with brands/systems and or the hot water storage tanks as far as heat loss, warranties.

It looks like you've got a lot of advice to look over. Let me just that I have installed the Buderus, Weil McLain and Slantfin. weil McLain has stood the test of time. I just set one up and it is still a very good boiler.(86%). I have put Buderus in and I like them to.(very quiet with riello.(86/87%). Riello very good burner once familiar with. Some techs are afraid of them only because they still don't use test equiptment and on those you must. Slantfin has come a long way and are equally good. When I was installing, those were what I was using at the end unless someone had a special request. They are far more quiet than the W.MC. with the beckett burner. People loved them. Slantfin also gives you more heat output than the others per section.(86%)also. I have a weil in my house and am also pricing a slantfin. As far as replacing boiler v tankless. If you just go with the indirect for know you will always have it when you replace the boiler. As far as the boiler goes, fresh water is one of the biggest enemy's of boilers. The more you let your coil leak the worst it will corode your boiler. It's not going to improve with age. Remember. IT WILL LET GO AT THE WORST POSSIBLE MOMENT. As for the Burnham, they still sound like a train. And although they corrected the casting problem they got a very bad rep. a couple years ago for leakers.

I'm also in the midst of deciding on a new system and have been recommended by my oil co. to buy a Dunkirk Ultimate PFO3 cast iron boiler with a Beckett burner with 87.6% eff. and a 20 yr warranty? Anybody have any thoughts on that one, and how does it compare to a Weil- McLain Gold Wgo3?
Help!

system 2000 is a good system. brookhaven labs did a test on the boilers and rated system 2000 most efficient of the non-condensing oil boilers see "Oil, steel boiler with purge control" in link below. heatinghelp.com has a lot of info on their site, too. we ended up going w/ the buderus w/ logomatic, mixing control and outdoor reset based on cost. We have radiant floors and S2K requires an additional buffer tank that added $1500 to the cost of the install. stick w/ the S2k or a good 3 pass boiler and you'll be set....most importantly, though, is get a proper heat loss calc done. good luck

Here is a link that might be useful: brookhaven

janedibber...

I'm also leaning toward the Buderus w/Logomatic control and matching ST-150 (stand up) water tank.

My HVAC guy quoted me for the LT-160 indirect which lays on its side with the boiler mounted on top and although it's a nice set up, I don't feel it would be as easy a set up if something needed to be fixed.

My opinion on the LT-160 is that it is a nice setup. It looks good and saves space but I stayed away because of your concerns. If by chance somthing happens to the tank there is no easy way to change it. The boiler sits right on top. I haven't installed in three years so I don't know if things have changed but if they haven't I'd have my doubts. I do like Buderus but I installed another brand of indirect. I installed isolation valves between the boiler and the tank incase of problems and it's a qretty quick fix without disturbing the heat. As far as the Logomatic goes the company wanted their man to set it up. My only suggestion is to make sure somebody is qualified to work on them if you put in because that is your whole brain to the system. If there's any malfunction you lose everything until they find someone to fix it.

For the Dunkirk question, all I can say is certain areas of the country support different brands. Weil McLain in prominant where I am and has stood the test of time. I have had one in my house since 1984 and it's still going strong. They sell Dunkirk in my area but I really don't see any going in. That's not to say there not good. I have also put in Buderus, Burnham,Weil McLain and Slantfin. At the present Slantfin seem to be the boiler of choice in our area. I personally like them better than the others. Slantfin with the Beckett burner gives you 86%, is more quiet than the others, it gives you more output per section, and the price is right. Slantfin was always know for there baseboard and now I think they make a nice boiler also. Whatever you decide to go with just make sure the company is familiar with them and can service them. GET something readily available in your area in case of problems.

we used our existing superstor, so never looked into an indirect. spot09 is spot on about boilers being available regionally. we liked the slantfin eutectic (sp?) but found only one outfit to install them. the installer kept pushing another brand that we weren't interested in, so we dropped that installer off the list, and the eutectic with it.

I've been thinking along with the instalation of new boiler and indirect hot water...I should update the thermostat.

I just need a simple heat only non-programable thermostat (since the Logomatic control handels set-backs and such).

Does anyone have thermostat suggestions or does anyone have experience with the Honeywell Digital Round (model T8775A1009).
It this as reliable as the old Honeywell Classic Round (mercury) thermostats?

Here is a link that might be useful: Honeywell Digital Round Thermostat

You should be able to replace the indirect coil for rather little. A Riello burner would bring you up to about 85% efficiency assuming your boiler has been cleaned. Brushes on the heat exchanger fire side and chemicals on the water side. Older boilers were built to last a lifetime rather than the 10-15 years design life currently in vogue.
An F-5 Riello is their best burner.

Josh...

The coil for that 55 year old boiler is not made anymore.

First the honeywell t-stat I found to be just as reliable as the old mercury ones. For a regular t-stat it is all I use because of dependabilty. As far as just a coil goes there is a comany that just makes coils called "Everhot" and they make coils for all boilers. I have replaced coils in old boilers like yours and they have always had what I needed. If your boiler is that old though, how hard did not contractor look. Call your local heating supply house. You might be throwing good money after bad but if all you really want is a coil you might want to check further into it.

georgect--this is from the buderus forum. We went with the room sensor.

"A Buderus room sensor is normally used in a constant circulation type of system (radiant floor heating, low temperature type of system or large water mass system). Just about any type of thermostat can be used to control the temperature in the home. It is suggested to discuss the system control with the installer as they can provide insight into which would be best for your application"

I still think the system 2000 with Beckett burner is absolutely your best bet, you will not be disappointed with it. Again the savings can`t be beat

Thanks Jane...since I have the old fashioned radiators and they use a higher water temp., I guess I should go with a more traditional thermostat than the Buderus Room Sensor.

Jim no dought I would probably save some money on oil with the System 2000. It's just that I can't find time tested references and people either like them or dont' like them for this reason or that reason.
I can't find anyone complaining about the Buderus boilers.

Spot09...thanks for the feedback on the thermostat and coil.

before you bump EK, I'd call them and get hold a local rep. they don't market/sell like the traditional companies. the company has been around along time. but you can't go wrong w/ the buderus or similar 3 pass.

Well I choose my HVAC company today and I'm going with the Buderus G115WS, with Logamatic 2107 and ST-150 (40 gal) indirect water tank and Riello burner.
Everything new from floor to ceiling.

I ran the information about the thermostat by him and he's going to look into that to find a simple replacement (currently have the Honeywell round classic thermostat).

My HVAC guy seems great and spent a lot more time with me than any of the other companies that came by for a quote. He's been to the house three times already taking notes and measurements answering questions and sharing information.
I totally feel comfortable with him and he's not just a front man, he'll be here most of time during the install.

The installation is due on the 26'th of October.
I guess I report back with an update.
You people have been helpful and I appreciate the feedback and feel free to throw anymore info. my way.

I think you made made a good choice with the Buderus and the stand up inderect. You mentioned now that you have radiators which means you probably had a high water content boiler to begin with and that is where Buderus takes care of a major problem for you. Very few contractors ever think about boiler shock. It's when hot water leaves the boiler and cooler water returns into a hot cast iron boilsr. Much like putting cold water into a hot car radiator which you would never do for fear of it cracking. The same principle applies to boilers. I used to pipe a by-pass line from the supply to the return to prevent this. Buderus has a built in by-pass in the boiler to make sure that doesn't happen. It is essential when going from high to low water content boilers. You will be happy with your choice and good luck.

spot09...
Didn't know about the built in by-pass, you learn something everyday.
Thanks!

Well, I got my Buderus G115WS boiler, Logamatic 2107 and matching ST-150 indirect fired hot water tank installed Monday.
They weren't kidding, it's an all day affair from 7:30AM to around 6PM.

I was not able to use the Honeywell digital round thermostat so went with a Honeywell FocusPRO 5000 series.

Only one tiny leak and that was fixed with a tightening of the water tank drain spigot.

So far so good. System is quieter and runs less (saving money I hope). A nice clean install.

Some observations since my Monday install.
Although the boiler runs less when heating, the circulator runs longer but the system runs at a lower operating temp.
Radiators get comfortably very warm/medium hot (not super hot) to keep a more even target temp. for the whole house.
Since this system uses an outside temp. sensor, at 50 degrees outside temp the boiler knows not to make the boiler run too hot (it's not needed, since the heat loss is not that great...that's so neat).
Since the circulator runs longer, I need to partially close valves to the second story (attic) radiators since this room is better insulated and running warmer then the fist story level.

Hot water production takes priority. So if the heating circulator is heating the house and hot water needs to be made, the house zone turns off and the hot water zone turns on directing hot water to the indirect hot water tank. Once the hot water tank as reached it target temp (140F), the circulator turns off and the house zone turns back on to complete heating if not yet satisfied.

Although the indirect hot water tank is set at 140F there is a mixing valve so actual water at the tap comes out at 125F (that's what I have mine set to but it's adjustable to preference).

Why have the hot water tank at 140F...(Legionellosis or Legionnaires' disease).

70 to 80 °C (158 to 176 °F): Disinfection range
At 66 °C (151 °F): Legionellae die within 2 minutes
At 60 °C (140 °F): Legionellae die within 32 minutes
At 55 °C (131 °F): Legionellae die within 5 to 6 hours
Above 50 °C (122 °F): They can survive but do not multiply
35 to 46 °C (95 to 115 °F): Ideal growth range
20 to 50 °C (68 to 122 °F): Legionellae growth range
Below 20 °C (68 °F): Legionellae can survive but are dormant.

Hi georgect,

Now that we have had a nice run of very cooolldd weather, would love to hear how you like your new setup?

We are considering similar setup- we have a tankless coil as well...

The set up is working great and I love it.

It's cool how the Logamatic 2107 regulates everything (out side temp. sensor is installed).

At the beginning of the season, when just taking the chill out of the house, the boiler wouldn't run that hot. Just enough to warm the radiators. (I would say 100-130 degrees.) Because the outside air temp was not that low.

Now that the outside air temp. is much cooler (even below 32F at times), the boiler runs hotter. (around 150-200 degrees.)
But the temps. vary widely and these temps. are not absolute.

When the thermostat calls for heat, the boiler doesn't turn on along with the circulator. If the water in the boiler is hot enough, only the circulator will come on until the boiler cools down enough to warrant the oil burner to cycle on. So the boiler doesn't needlessly make more hot water than is needed.

Sometimes the oil burner wont even have to turn on because there's enough hot water for the cycle of the circulator.

The circulator for the heating zone for the house does cycle on and off more often to keep a more constant even air temp. in the house (68 degrees).
With the new digital thermostat I'm experimenting with CPH (Cycles Per Hour).
You can set the thermostat to make more short on/off cycles or longer on/off cycles by adjusting the CPH.
This adjusts how often the circulator cycles on/off each hour.
I started out with 5 CPH and now I'm trying out 4 CPH.

The boiler will run hotter when making hot water of course (indirect fired maintaining 140 degrees with mixing valve set at 125 degrees).
Domestic hot water always takes priority (or you can change that default setting).
Even if the house is calling for heat and you need hot water for showers or laundry or dishwashing etc. The circulator for the house will stop and the circulator for the hot water will run until the hot water storage tank temp. is satisfied. Then the circulator for the house will continue until satisfied.

I have the Logamatic on "Late" mode. Meaning the domestic hot water production stops at 11:30 PM every night.
It resumes the next morning at 6:30 AM.
The water storage tank (Buderus ST-150) loses very little heat standing by and there is plenty of hot water stored.
So no real need to keep water at peek 140 degrees if it's not being used over night.

The system goes into "Night" mode at 11:30 PM also.
This turns down the "heating curve" for heating the house (lower operating temp.)

The system goes into "Day" mode at 6:30 AM, where domestic hot water is priority and made first if needed and regular heating temps. are back up to normal for home heating.

All these setting and times can be changed on the Logamatic to fit your homes lifestyle.

It's pretty cool learning how this system works.

Hey, that sounds quite the engineer's dream. We are not to far from you, and see about the same cost for work, etc.,.

Do you mind giving me a ballpark on how much the outfit ran?

We currently have a boiler rated at 153K BTU, which when I did a rough heat loss calc, came up way oversized- need looks about 55-65K BTU! Big difference. Our oil supplier offered us 2 prices on units without even suggesting heat loss calc, and only offered a low end and a high end boiler, never suggested an indirect fired hot water tank.

Spent around $9500.00

I would recomend the indirect fired hot water tank.

I'll e-mail you directly.

Thanks!! The photos are quite snazzy. We'll have to look into it on our end.

Keep warm!