Side unimportant note: Just have to say that you seem to have the fabulous "designer handwriting" style down pat -- did you write that way before you started this? If so, you were clearly meant to be a designer :)

It looks great! I wonder if a little cab over the sink would help out with storage: Maybe raise it up a little so it's not quite so "close". Nice work!

flyleft... you're making me smile! :) - my drafting teacher is an architect and made us practice our writing A LOT, but I have an art background... thank you for the compliment.

claybabe... was wondering what to do above the sink. was thinking of doing something along the lines of the posting... small kitchen, big success. I like how they connected the cabinets with the mini soffit and used it to put in a recessed light. Her ceilings in the main part of the kitchen are only 7'9". I am thinking we won't be touching the ceiling to save money, even though her current lights are antiquated ... a fun and challenging project to be working on (not getting paid, but am happy for the experience gained).

ps: my teachers have us do everything by hand. we aren't allowed to design with autocad yet... they feel it would inhibit us somehow. that is why this is drawn... am using it as practice for school (plus i enjoy hand drawing much more than autocad)

meant to give a link to the kitchen with the nice recessed light above the sink

Here is a link that might be useful: small kitchen big success

I wouldn't put any kind of cabinet over the sink....it would hearken back to the days of the valance!! I like it left open, possibly with a pendant light there that can either take a bright halogen bulb or a large watt incandescent bulb. The sink against a wall will require good lighting.

When I took drafting classes for my engineering degree they made us learn to draft by hand first, so we would have a better understand of the drafting process. After we mastered that, we got to use autocad which I do full-time now.

I'm glad you're joining the ranks of design. We can use more enthusiastic and skilled folks! So please understand, I mean all of the following in the most constructive and educational way.

My biggest criticism is that you say that this will not be a DIY kitchen, and there is a very limited budget, but you've filled the kitchen up with budget breakers. I personally would not ever base a whole kitchen design on such an expensive and not standard sized appliance. You're really limiting your client in future replacement issues. I'd lose the almost useless pantry for a larger fridge and a cabinet above the sink. You're also planning on using a 24" sink base for a 25" sink, which I would not do without a lot of communication and blessing from your countertop fabricators. Not every fabricator is comfortable scooping the sides of the cabinet to fit a sink in, and it DOES void the warranty on the cabinetry to do so. I'd really like to see more utilization of the corners. Void corners are always a last resort. I like the placement of the MW cabinet in the upper next to the fridge, but a 24" cabinet means a really really tiny MW. If this is the usual condo situation with no exterior venting anyway, a better space saver would be an OTR with a decent recirculating fan. 12" drawers are pretty small, even in frameless cabinetry. Maybe a 12" pull out pantry instead? That 15" cabinet that comes down to the counter looks really great, but it really impact the seating area negatively, if seating more than one is a priority. In such a small kitchen, I wouldn't dedicate a whole cabinet to a pull out trash. Instead, a small trash receptical under the sink, or in 1/2 of a base cabinet would suffice.

Personally, to keep costs down, I'd keep pretty much the same layout, using standard sized appliances and maybe work in 12" deep storage on the whole blank wall if possible. And I'd have a talk with your client about priorities. Getting seating in that kitchen should be a last priority if there is anywhere else adjacent for eating space. If there's not eating space elsewhere, then storage space is gonna have to take a back seat. You can't always get everything you want. :)

lwo, I was hoping you would reply... your experience and insight (along with the other KD's on here) has taught me a lot.

my original thought was to just do shallow storage along that wall, but with her full size DW request (more of a demand), there isn't enough room.

you make very good points about the 24" fridge. re: the pantry, do you think it is useless because of its location? I was thinking that given her limited storage space that if she could store all of her food, baking supplies, coffee, etc. in here than she is freeing up cabinet space for dishes etc.

the cabinet on the counter was my attempt to get her to pick up her clutter ... put her papers/receipts/keys in the drawers, and cookbooks up above. it does limit her potential seating from two people to one.

I was thinking of a cabinet depth fridge, but they still project out pretty far given the tight space.

you've given me a lot to think about.

the mw i was specifying is the GE spacemaker, dimensions are 23-1/2 wide by 11-1/2" tall. I despise over the range MW's but maybe in this instance it is called for... any others have an opinion on that?

good point on the trash. will ask her about her priorities on that.

haven't picked a sink yet so no worries there. just used the standard sink template to draw that. it will be something meant for a 24" sink base.

thank you thank you for your response. will keep you posted on how this proceeds.

oh, about the corner cabinet. I looked into those blind corner / magic corner things.. .whatever they are called. aren't they crazy expensive? yes, would do wonders for her kitchen but i was putting the money toward the built in fridge for a more streamlined floorplan... perhaps not the right thinking.

I like your design a lot. The only suggestion I'd make is to access the pantry from the long perpendicular side, so the storage is wide and shallow rather than thin and deep.

I have a couple of questions though -- right now on the blank wall perpendicular to the fridge there is a wall panel...is that going away or is it something important like a electrical panel box?

What is on the other side of the current blank wall? Would it be possible to access that dead corner space from the other side? Maybe shelves or a small cabinet? One of my dead corners has a powder room behind it and I had a cabinet designed with deep drawers below that use the space...just an idea...
{{gwi:1594774}}
{{gwi:1594776}}

Hey, this is really cool that you're doing this! The plans look very professional, and at first glance the kitchen looks great.

BUT - totally agree with LWO about not wanting to lock the owner into a super-expensive non-standard size refrigerator. Also about having cabinets above the sink - nothing wrong with them, bumped up or not. The more upper cabs I have at eye-level in a tiny kitchen, the better, and I can store my dishes over the sink and use other uppers as pantry space. Also the microwave - either give up more room for a larger microwave (so there isn't just one model in the world that fits there), or go with OTR. I wanted a m/w on a shelf in my tiny kitchen, but I wasn't willing to give up the eye-level cabinet space for it. Also about not having the cabinet come down to the counter because I'd rather have the counter space.

Uh, why am I even posting? I just agree with LWO.

Good luck - can't wait to see the revisions! ;-)

Replace #8 and #12 with a 36" x 36" corner cab

Move dishwasher over accordingly.

To right of dishwasher have 9" tray cabinet. Put upper cabinet above DW and this cabinet.

Put sink in 36" x 36" corner cab to the right of that. Keep the easy reach cabinet above that

You then have room for a 36" wide CD fridge.

MDP,
Nice kitchen. My one comment is actually counter to LWO's. Personally, a small kitchen like this one is precisely where to use a small fridge such as the 24" Leibherr. There is some other brand that also comes in a narrow width but I don't recall the brand. True, it is "more expensive" but I wouldn't consider it expensive considering how much fridges can run to. Personally, I'd try to convince her to get an 18" DW so that she can fit in the things she wants to fit in.

That said, I especially wanted to post to put in strong support for the pantry that you have got. As small as they are, a pantry is a BOON and doubly so in a small kitchen. My 15" wide pull-out pantry stores ALL my non-cooking food items. ALL. Well, modulo spices and the oil or vinegar I use on a daily basis for cooking. So, I'm even more convinced about pantries than I used to be when I was designing my kitchen. Arlosmom's point about accessing it from the side rather than the front is also a pretty good one.

Also just wanted to say that as far as storage goes, you may even want to consider making that wall with the fridge and pantry ALL tall storage so that she can put dishes and glasses and whatnot right there including a dishwasher, mind you, if she's hard over on the 24" size. Her prep counters would be to the left of the sink and left of the cooktop then. I don't know if geometrically it could work but I just thought I'd throw that suggestion out there as it gets her loads of storage in her small kitchen, is quite clean as it puts all tall storage on one wall and open kitchen for the rest. But you'll have to see if it works or not in that space.

I do agree with LWO on the sink size, though.

Uh, that should be: My 15" wide pull-out pantry stores ALL my non-refridgerated food items. I.e. it stores all food but for the fridge stuff. I think it's brilliant as it leaves hordes of room in the other cabinetry for other storage - and therefore has left me with some nearly unoccupied cabinets! That despite the fact that I have 10 cabinets all told including one that holds my under-counter oven and one that holds my stove. And they are anything from 15" and 18" wide to 36" wide so certainly not all 10 are large cabinets).

Hey, that fridge is only $2500-2700ish, depending on if you get it paneled and with ice. So you're a few bucks ahead of budget already!

You could probably get by with the freestanding version which is also shallow. There are other freestanding fridges (Fagor makes one) that depth and width so it's not really that oddball a size. They might not be as pretty and not fully integrated which is so nice about the Liebherr. But they're cheaper!

Anyway, I'm OK with your fridge choice. :) Is she absolutely sure she wouldn't be happy with a single drawer dishwasher? You know, just in case she wasn't aware of them, you have to run it by her. They're so ergonomic...

thank you everyone for all the responses. have just got home with the kids and am out the door to meet her for dinner and go over all of this.

quickly read through all your responses and have a lot to figure out. Ideally, I'd be presenting more than one option for her, but I chose to work on this for a class project with only one option explored extensively so I pretty far down one road for that reason.

will let you know what she thinks.

quickly, I don't think I can put a 36 x 36 where 8 and 12 are because of pipe chase.

dead corner should probably be used. can't be accessed from the other side... it is the common stairwell for the condo.

thanks again!!!

Just a few minor things -

Agree with offering a choice of refs. In a 20k remodel, spending more than 10% on a ref seems a bit much.

Maybe point out that the deliciously beautiful cabinet on the overhang at the end of the range run prevents seating for two and offer choice? Maybe mention that the peninsula is a trade off - small space for pots and pans - and one seat v. big set of drawers.

What others said about using a single drawer dw (beside ref) or an 18" dw to add some storage or at least a place for the trash.

I like the little pantry. I like the sense of decoration.

Well, I'm no kitchen designer, but what about a less expensive compact fridge, like a Summit or Haier? Here's a tall, slim Summit that can be had for around $1500 http://www.summitappliance.com/detail/941

I think it's awesome that you get to do this project for a friend!

Blomberg also has compact refrigerators...24 & 27 inch width & counter depth.

I am currently designing a gut remodel of a very small kitchen which is nevertheless heavily cooked in. My choice of compact refrigerator is Fagor. A whole cubic foot more than Summit my second choice.

Here is a link that might be useful: lots of refrigerator in a small foot print

We got a counter-dept, panel ready, with ice-maker fridge at Sears Outlet with digital panel 3 years ago for $1000... but it was pure luck, needed a fridge that we hoped could get through the door in a hurry as we just bought the house and had no clue what we were buying as we didn't actually fridge shop. :) Now, if I have to replace it, we're in trouble.

I'm impressed with your drawing. I still like to hand draw a lot of projects too (just finished 2 perspectives). The main red flag I see is that I think you are going to have a problem with your crown return where #4 hits #3. On a more personal, nitpicky level I try to avoid small doors like on #16 near big doors like #10 and #11. There are ways around this but it depends on the cabinet line and doorstyle. It sounds like you won't be using custom cabinets so I'd probably look at a 12" cabt for #11 and a 30" for #10 (or maybe a 15" and a 27") but you'd have to be able to make a case for it storage-wise too (and it would probably cost more ). If you are going custom you might have the 21" cabinets made with 2 doors or the 21" doors made with a 2-panels on one door. Your work seems very well thought out. You are able to thoughtfully justify your decisions. That will help you when you have to actually sell your projects. I've had a number of interns from a local NKBA approved course and their work and thought process was nowhere near the level you are showing. This is a great profession. I'm happy you'll be joining us.

Thank You again for all of your responses.

So, we went to dinner last night and I presented the plans to her and it went pretty well.... I went through some of the things that came up here and the various trade offs. Her biggest hang up is the 39" aisle. She thought it seemed narrow and was concerned with feeling jammed into the space (she was surprised to learn that her current aisle is 42" so that seemed to alleviate her concern). We didn't have a chance to go back to her place after dinner, but she would like me to come over and help her envision the changes (putting tape down on the floor and doing a little bit of pretending). She likes the pullout trash and would want to keep that as well as the pantry which she was very enthusiastic about. the fridge was a bit of an issue for her and I would definitely have to take her to look at different options. I don't think the Liebherr will work for her, because she made a comment about her current fridge not holding everything and I am going to bet that the Liebherr has much less cubic ft. of storage than her current. The Liebherr has as big a freezer as fridge, where she needs much more fridge than freezer. The Fagor that profrip posted would be a better bet. Less expensive and also double the cubic ft. of fridge space in the same footprint.

She made a couple of comments that she thinks for economic reasons that she should just redo the current layout (just as you suggested LWO!!). She expressed some concern about the lack of counterspace with the current plan though. I could see her going that route. I told her that in a "real" client/KD situation she'd have been presented with many options, one being to clean up what she has.

She has a GC that she will use and is going to have him over to look at the plans. I told her that the two biggest issues for her to address with him is the electrical panel (which would need to move down so that it was accessible from inside the pantry)... not sure if an electrical panel can be moved. AND the pipe chase, which I was banking on being able to reduce in size - going from 16" x 20" to 13" x 17". I guess this would mess up the ceiling which would need to be patched...

Anyway, this should be interesting. If I had to guess what she ends up doing, I will say that she will re-do what she already has. We'll see. She's a bit of a procrastinator so I don't see this taking place any time soon although I think she should put it into gear as I think there are good deals and promotions out there and people looking to work.

bmorepanic, I gave her the one dish drawer as an option and she liked that. very good idea for a small space like this. I think she would also opt to eliminate the drawers that come down to the counter, but keep the cabinet above which was earmarked for her cookbooks. She loved the idea of sitting at her peninsula and flipping through her cookbooks.

Khat, thank you for your comments... they made my day! and also the points you make are good ones about the uppers and the molding.