Gee, FV, I'm so sorry people are this rude and ignorant; especially when you are doing such an unselfish and helpful thing. Sadly, I suspect this may not be isolated to your specific situation and more times than not, volunteers aren't treated with much dignity or respect. I love the way you've articulated your frustrations or even hurt. It's mind boggling that you haven't been treated very kindly and or in a way that reflects any appreciation. At this point, most people would just walk away but please don't let it spoil the joy you get from helping the kids who need it the most. I have no doubt they as well as their parents appreciate it.

I wonder if it might be worth your while to post this on a public board or even the schools facebook or web page. If nothing else, it may give some of the "help" there pause and some food for thought.

I love the way you expressed this, you are stating facts and not whining !!!
I can read between the lines, you have experienced this first hand.

Excellent wake up call for the staff, and admin, to know that you are an essential part of the system and what makes it work, it takes a village.

It's also a good heads up for all of us, in appreciating behind the scenes people, be it the cleaners in our building, etc...

Mitch said it well...behind the scenes people.

Just think where we would all be if the garbage collectors and the stock people in the stores...ah well no preaching to the choir.

I take a second to say "thank you for all you do" whenever I see someone doing what is described as a "menial job". I have had conversations with the checkers in the grocery store. You wouldn't believe how folks treat them as they are getting their groceries checked out. The stories they can tell you...

Folk...thank you for all you do as a volunteer. I too did a lot of work as a volunteer at my kids' schools. It is hard but so worth while. Thank you !!

Something to try for a few minutes each day.If you can think of those folks who are distant or unresponsive or outright rude as people that are hurting or in need in some way this practice helps. It is called tonglen, I will attach a link below. I have found it very very helpful and am doing this every day now. c

Here is a link that might be useful: tonglen

lukki, mitch, and trail said it better than I could- I agree with everything they said! You did a great job of getting your point across.

Thanks for being a volunteer. I'm one too (but I think you do a lot more than I do!) and I know how it feels when some people look right through you, treat you with disdain, etc. It does happen. There are also people who are appreciative. If I was treated too badly or dismissively, I might consider going elsewhere.

I know how you feel, and I'm so glad you addressed this problem. I did volunteer work in the school library and had a good time.

But I also substituted in high school. What an eye opener! Don't get me wrong, I respect teachers. Most of them anyway. But I was shocked at what I heard one day.

I gathered up the courage to go in the teacher's lounge for my lunch. One of the male teachers was putting down this boy really bad. I finally looked up at him and said, "Isn't he the one with ADD?" The guy said yes, then continued on to bash him some more.

I got to thinking, how many other teachers treat this kid like crap? Well, the boy was in my class the next hour. By chance the school was having a contest that day for each class hour and the teachers wrote the students name down for best behavior, wanted to learn, etc. All the kids new about the contest.

The boy in question had a first row seat which I'm sure the absent teacher put him there on purpose. Every time the boy looked at me he'd smile. No acting out at ALL.

But the high school girls were being stuck up. At the end of the hour I put the boy with the ADD as the winner.

They all asked me who I nominated and I told them. They looked at me as if I were nuts.

I have no idea who won, but when I told the boy I nominated him, his eyes just lit up.

I'm sure the teachers talked greatly behind my back after I left. lol

FV, that brought tears to my eyes. I am sorry you've been treated that way-- taken for granted.

I wonder what would happen in our world if all the volunteers stopped volunteering for a day?

oak, I bet you changed that child's life-- sometimes all it takes is one little action.

FV please post the letter at the school! It is beautifully writen and should be heeded by all! Oakleyok, I was a teacher in an affluent area many moons ago and I left the professsion because too many of the teachers were more judgemental and unkind than the students. They frequently badmouthed students, parents and other teachers it was high school all over again but in a elementry school setting. I truly believe children live up to what is expected of them. When nothing good is expected that is what is given. When you showed your faith in the young man you gave him reason to live up to your expectations and it made a difference I am certain!

Beautiful words folkvictorian. I volunteered at my son's pre-school many years ago. Just awful how so many adults behave.

Oakleyok you think people who go into this field should have more patience and understanding but they don't seem to have either. I am an Electrical Engineer so I have lots of trouble dealing with people (think I may have Asperger Syndrome; so very common to engineers, mathematicians, physicists it's known as "the Engineer Disease"). I remember trying to deal with the head of school board ... I think this is one of the reason many people home school their children.

FV, I've done lots of volunteer work over the years & know of what you speak! Chalk it up to jealousy, sweetie. There are women who would love to be in your unpaid shoes, but regrettably, don't have the choice.

Some people will see you as a "lady of leisure" and resent that, but they forget that while you are serving the school you aren't having your nails done and nibbling on bon bons! You're choosing to WORK with your free time & are making a contribution!

In addition to jealousy, guilt may also be the reason behind some of the attitudes you encounter. Some people know that if THEY had free time they would not choose to spend it serving others...they WOULD eat the bon bons and pursue other more self-serving activities. So, you could still say these people are also jealous of you...because they don't feel they measure up in terms of character.

Keep doing what you are doing and be proud of your pursuit of excellence and the gift of self you are offering your community.

I too did a lot of volunteer work at my DS's elementary school. I'm not sure that the teachers or working parents realize that without the volunteers the schools would not function as well as they do. Between funding cutbacks and teachers contracts there is a lot of slack to be made up so that the students can have a full school experience and it's the volunteers who round out that experience. Between the library, pizza days, fund-raising, fun days, chaperoning/driving for field trips, class mom duties, reading mom, attendance monitors, etc etc if volunteers don;t do them they won't get done.

I rarely comment over here but this time I can't help myself. Mothers who work are mean girls to the volunteers because they are jealous and resentful of them? And we working mothers feel guilty because we wouldn't volunteer if we were not working? Because of our character defects? I'm glad you're not anywhere near my kid, I would not want you infecting her with your mantle of misogyny.

All you volunteers who feel trod upon by all us mean working mothers, should all grow a set and start acting like deserve you deserve respect and not waste your time begging the wrong people for kindness. As Ann Landers used to say, no one can take advantage of you without your permission.

sandyponder

I have to say, the issues that have been raised here-- the arguments-- would not happen with men, would they? Why is it that women do so much arguing? I think it's because of unrealistic expectations. Women, as a group, tend to judge each other very harshly, and I can't help but wonder if it's because we judge ourselves with impossible standards. This is largely because SO MUCH responsibility is on us-- whether we choose it (out of guilt or obligation) or necessity.

I think if we can treat ourselves with respect and others-- and PROTECT each other (not give into the "in fighting") we will go a long way.

I also think the idea of envy is very real. I think we do envy each other. Stay-at-home moms can feel alone and isolated. Last night my husband was very annoyed that I was "talking his ear off" about possible Christmas presents. He doesn't realize that he's one of the only adults I talk to regularly. My young children and job (from home) make any sort of volunteering or even socializing a real challenge.

I've also been a working mom, and that was so difficult, too. I had no energy for my daughter when I came home . . .and then I just had endless work on top of it.

The fact is, women generally have a tough life. If we are not married, people want to know why. If we are married without children, people want us to justify it. If we are single with children, then we have to prove ourselves extra. If we are married, with children, and working, then people question our commitment to our families. If we are married, with children, and not working, then people think we don't contribute enough to society. And then, if you're like me . . .a stay at home mom who also works, then maybe you get credit for both, but your quality of life is diminished because it's just not a realistic way to live.

So, we get judged a lot. We might feel envious sometimes of what seems like a missed opportunity . . .but ultimately, we all make a lot of sacrifices. We need to stick together!

Sandyponder: I had to go back and reread the comments and can't find anything close to what you are referring to. Or maybe I missed it. I, for one, don't care who does and doesn't work and I do agree with anele that women do need to start supporting one another regardless of their choices.

OT here - I don;t work and didn't have to because we could pay our bills on my DH's salary. I did work in the business world in the 70's-80's and hated it because of the lack of support from the other women and left it behind. Some women work to support the household, others work because they love/want to. It doesn't matter, we all do what works best for us and our families whether that be working or volunteer work or a combination of both or neither.

Gosh - when I tell people I don;t work and haven't for 20 years and most know I have a B.Comm, their eyes glaze over - you think that isn't insulting. Oh but wait - I eat bon bons and watch soaps all day but so many of them are now being cancelled and so now what will I do?

Wow, Sandy! I was referring, not to women as a group, but to the "people" male or female, FV was specifically encountering. I've been on the receiving end of this sort of abrasiveness too many times not to be aware that this is an issue...for SOME.

Anele, I appreciate your take on the situation. As you said...envy does happen. I am not saying that it necessarily makes sense, but it does happen & it usually isn't pretty when it does! As you wisely note, all women have it rough in some regard or another. I think to be human is to have it rough! The reality is imo, that it all comes out in the wash! We all have our crosses to bear and we all have things for which to be grateful.

Also, when I made my comment I wasn't even thinking in terms of "women" and envy, but people and envy. If we aren't careful to cultivate gratitude and to think reasonably as Anele is about the issue, I think it's easy for all us Humans to fall into the comparison trap.

The envious people (whatever gender they are) at FV's school are not necessarily thinking clearly imo. They are not necessarily weak in character or lacking in any manner. But if they THINK they are, that can drive some people to behave nastily and hold those they VIEW as "better" in contempt.

Thank you, kind people, for understanding my words! Everyone knows that the vast majority of people are friendly and nice, it's just a few who throw a wrench into the works. I just had two wrenches in two days and got a bit under the weather for a while there. You know what I'm talking about. You've been there, too, I just know it.

Lukki, don't worry, I won't walk away from this volunteer opportunity, it's far too rewarding and fun nearly every day. The kids are amazing and for once it's nice to be an outsider here, since I don't know everyone's family history and all that.

Mitch, that's something I never thought of....if it takes a village to raise a child, I guess I'm now one of the villagers. What a nice thought! I'll keep making those children say "please" and "thank you" in my efforts to keep the village friendly. :)

Trail, I glanced at it and I'm truly looking forward to reading the full tonglen information, thank you. You reminded me of something my mom told me once. She was a nurse for many years and said there was one co-worker who always seemed rather cold and unfriendly. She later learned that this gal had a terrible home life with an abusive husband and who-knows-what else. You never know, do you.

Oak, thank you for brightening that boy's world! You were very wonderful to volunteer at a high school and you made a difference in his life. All kids should be so lucky as to have someone like you to recognize them for what they ARE instead of what they are not.

Anele, you are so kind-hearted. Congratulations on your newest baby, I need to read up to see if you've settled on a name for sure. :) The final two paragraphs of your second post are priceless and should be on a billboard! No matter where a woman is in life, she ALWAYS has to justify SOMETHING, isn't that just insane?

Texask, you probably have first-hand experience of what I'm talking about. I really appreciate the pre-school teachers and helper-moms. Keeping a room full of kids (ages 3 and 4) in order and managing to teach them things takes skills beyond my imagination.

Stinky, (*I'm whispering here*) you know I think you're right, there is some crazy kind of misplaced envy some times. The truth is that I'm no lady of leisure, despite what some may think. I quit a desk job at a banking company 5 years ago when my husband and I moved to WI shortly before our son was born. DS is in a pre-school about 20 minutes from home because we live in the absolute freakin' middle of Nowhere, WI. If I took him to school and went home and then came back to get him I'd be driving 76 miles every day. Of course, there are no jobs around here from 8:30 - 11:30 every morning, so I volunteer at DS' school. I try to dress nicely but just between you and me, a full 90% of my wardrobe is decent second-hand stuff from Savers. Anyone who's been on the decorating forum for a few years will know I've pretty much never posted pictures of my home. That's because it's an old Folk Victorian farmhouse that needs new siding and a new roof. (DH is a 95-percenter....he loves projects and can do nearly anything....but when they're 95% done, he moves onto something new.) We've just sold the whole property and farmland and are building a small home closer to civilization. Once we move and DS is in school full time, I'll need to get a proper job in the evenings to help make ends meet. When DS is old enough to be home alone for short times before or after school if necessary, I'll take a full time day job. I can't afford bon-bons even if there was a store around here that sold the dang things! Rats!

Blfenton, you're absolutely correct. There are dozens and dozens of volunteers needed to help the school succeed. (I feel for the playground monitors who interrupt their day to come into school for an hour at lunchtime and stand in the 20-degree cold while arbitrating playground arguments. Oh, man!) The parents are asked to do SO much and they just make it through one fundraiser and another is just behind it. Add to that the homework, projects...it never ends! (Meanwhile, perhaps together we can scour the Gardenweb cooking forum for Bon Bon recipes and then ask that they start a Soap Opera forum so we can get up to date! Ha!)

Aw, Sandyponder, no-one is taking advantage of me. I could walk away from the volunteer job tomorrow, but the good outweighs the bad nearly every single day and most days are joyful. I hope that's true for you, too. No-one's making sweeping accusations here, but we're all very familiar with human nature and its many ways and means.

Good night, Gardenwebbers, and thank you again for all of your thoughts and words.

FV, I'm glad you turned to your GW friends for the support you needed. Volunteers are the backbone for many schools especially in these hard times, so I'm really glad that you're not going to let those few spoil the experience for you. You have a real gift for writing, I still encourage you to post your words in a spot where the people who need to see it the most will.

Yep...walk a mile in someone else's shoes....I try to remember that but we can all use a wake up call now and then. Glad you posted...have a wonderful evening. c

Texask, I'm going to have to read more on Asperger Syndrome because my son is a Civil Engineer. lol. But he is one heck of a perfectionist, just like my dad was, who also was a CE. However, he's a lot of fun to be around.

I will say this about women, and please don't anyone take this the wrong way. The best jobs I had were the ones where the office only had a few women.

But once the kids went to school from 8:30 - 3:30, I lucked out and found a job at the bank from 9-3. It couldn't have been more perfect. I was able to take the kids to school and pick them up.

But this bank had a lot of women there. I hardly knew anyone, but they did ignore me because come to find out, I was the ONLY person there with those hours. That's why I applied in the first place!

One day I was sitting at my desk and this lady walked by and said in THE most snarkiest of voices, "It must be nice to have your hours." Then she put her papers on my desk and walked away.

She was obviously jealous. But she could have applied also, no one was stopping her. :)

I do say thanks for all volunteers! There is so much that wouldn't be done if it weren't for kind souls who donate their time.

When I first started at my office, there was a gal who came in 3 days a week for a couple hours to do some simple clerical work. She'd been coming in for almost a year at that point. I didn't know if she was a part time worker or what, but I treated her like I did all other folks I worked with. Not a big deal to say hi or even just smile. Well, apparently it was. I found out later that most people at my office flat out ignored her, she was, after all, JUST a volunteer. I was the only person who was not in a clerical job who actually spoke to her. At my office, the people who do the job like mine are the 'rock stars' of the office, we're also paid very well for our skills, but that doesn't make us any different, for crying out loud!

I felt so bad for that gal when I learned that. I bought her a gift card for the espresso bar as a good bye gift for her last day, it was only a few dollars, but she cried when I gave it to her.

I wish I had more time to do more volunteering on a regular basis...right now it's more sporadic, like staffing a booth at an event or helping with the beach clean up stuff, just a couple hours at a time. But my hat is definitely off to temps, volunteers, and ESPECIALLY front line workers...the checkers, the clerical staff and such.

FV, you are welcome at my school any time. We treasure our parent volunteers and wish we had more.

I was sorry to read the teacher-bashing, though. We work very long hours (Contract hours? What are those?) and we are grateful for any help we can get. I often think that everyone should have to spend a minimum of six months doing a teacher's job. One other note, no teacher should ever discuss confidential information about a student.

Oh, Cyn427, no teacher bashing, no no no. I'm so sorry that my messages have come across like that.

I've always respected teachers (my dad was a teacher) and since working at DS's school, I've gained even MORE respect for them. From correcting school papers and tutoring, I've learned so much. How tough is it to have a class of 25 or more individuals, each with their own learning style and speed? I can't even fathom it! Add into that mix the 25 or 30 different home and family lives that these kids have and it's mind-boggling.

The sheer amount of paperwork generated by the students is amazing. It takes a minimal amount of time to grade math assignments where each problem has one correct answer. Of course, that's if you can get all 25 kids to actually turn in their work. To correct reading papers takes a huge amount of time, since each answer is written in sentences by the student and the teacher has to gauge the ability of the student to understand what was read and to make assumptions from the material. Multiply that by 25 kids and you get a headache. Now that you've corrected the homework, you have to explain to the individuals what was wrong and then figure out how to re-teach it to them. Then the Principal is breathing down your neck because some of the kids haven't returned some form that their parents were supposed to sign. It never ends! I have so much respect for the work that the teachers do and I want to make that very clear!

Give me a break, there was no teacher bashing in what FV wrote. Although if teachers were treating a volunteer unkindly, they deserve to be called out on it just like anyone else. Yes, they work long hours and yes it's not the easiest of jobs but long hours or not, lets not be a martyr here, teaching is a choice and it does not authorize someone to be rude or arrogant to someone else.

Gosh, as a teacher myself, I'm so sorry that you've been treated that way. I've worked in several schools and I know that each has its own culture. As a student teacher, I worked for 6 weeks in one school and even though it would have been logical to apply there after graduation, I swore I wouldn't because the other teachers had been incredibly rude.

I've been teaching at a private school for years now and we have a group of exceptional teachers who treat each other, students and parents with an incredible amount of respect. I am thankful everyday for the job and wonderfully supportive people that I work with.

I'm sorry for your experience, but want you to know that what you are doing (as you have said) is so important. Especially at a school that sounds like it has a less than respectful culture. They, more than anyone, need your example. Hugs.

FV, thanks for sharing some of the details of your situation and your exciting plans! I think your smaller, easier to care for house that is closer to civilization will improve your quality of life tremendously. Good for you for taking action and making it happen!

Wish you had posted pics of your FV house...I'm sure it was charming. That's okay. Hope you will share the new house with us and your decorating ideas for it! Good luck with the new house and the move and with finding a new job that is a good fit for you when the time is right! You are obviously a hard worker that any employer would be quite fortunate to have on the payroll!

Roarah, I missed responding to you the first time around -- I apologize for walking right past you in the hallway and not even saying "Hi!" :)

I'm sorry to read that you left teaching because of the teachers you worked with. Since you spend 8-9 hours with these people every day, it makes a huge difference in your life when they're not nice to be around.

As for what you said about "children live up to what is expected of them. When nothing good is expected that is what is given." reminds me of one of students I tutor for math. I've never heard him say it, but in moments of frustration, he's told his teacher "I'm just LAZY! I can't get it!" and if that doesn't break your heart, I don't know what would. Where do you think he hears that? My guess is that he's been told that at home and he's come to believe it. A 4th grader with bright eyes who tries to be the first to get done with his math problems and then sometimes misses a few numbers in the process.

I don't think this thread is about "good teachers vs. bad teachers" or "working moms vs. stay-at-homes" or even "good teachers vs. the universe", I think it's more about.....people and human nature. There's no limit as to how kind we can be to others but some people at certain times (myself included) dole it out in smaller amounts than others.

Uhh, stinky gardener, it matters not to me if you were talking about the people at folkvictorian's school or all working mothers, and as far as I'm concerned, since you are neither a mother nor employed, you don't know from whence you speak and you were just spreading haterade.

I don't think folkvictorian was bashing teachers, that was oakleyok, who thinks that she knows more about a child after seeing them for one class period than the trained educators who had that student all year long. That was the teacher bashing that I saw.

Finally, folkvictorian, I respectfully suggest that you *do* believe people are taking advantage of you, otherwise you would not have written what you did. Even tho you state it's on behalf of all volunteers, I think you feel more comfortable couching your feelings in concerns about others. Own your feelings, woman, it doesn't make you a heartless crone, it makes you a full-on human. Stride into that school, throw your shoulders back, look the mean girls in the eye and say hello. Lather, rinse, repeat. Getting respect first means you have to believe you deserve respect.

sandyponder

Interesting thread. Having once been a volunteer (not in a school situation) I felt some of the same frustrations from time to time. I eventually decided to get a paying job. Figured if I had to put up with crap like that I might as well get paid for it.

Oakley, I didn't know you were an educator. How long did you teach?

Sandy, I think it was me bashing teachers. I am not going to apologize either. My dad was a science teacher. My younger brother was a teacher (only lasted a year, due to some ignorant teachers he left the field). Like in all fields, there are some good ones and also plenty of bad ones. Oakleyok could have a better understanding of those children than those so-called trained educators. Just because a person has a degree it doesn't make them an expert. A person can be very book smart but street dumb. Or maybe they partied too much in school (and killed all their brain cells). Or they forgot what they have learned. Case in point, all doctors in Medical School are taught grey sclerae can mean only 2 things. My geneticist could not believe not a single doctor ever noticed my eyes.

I was an RN from 1988-2004. One of the common threads in nursing journals was "nurses eat their young". It was a known fact and experience of many bright eyed new RN's when they went to the hospital for clinicals while still in school and then to work fresh out of school. I am attaching a link . I never saw so much hostility and resentment and pure mean behavior as I saw in the nursing world. It certainly wasn't everyone at all...but the few do make an impression.

I swore then and there that when I felt burned out by my job and/or work place situation I would act quickly and decisively to remedy the situation and would not take out my angst on anyone else...be they patient or other workers. I did just that in 2004...license lapsed and everyone told me what a mistake I was making . No I wasn't. To have stayed would have been the mistake. c

Here is a link that might be useful: Nurses eat their young

Sandy, thanks for sharing your perspective. You have an interesting take on things.