:) I wanted to ask Sis a question too! I have not tried to make home made almond milk so will let her answer it, but if you have a vitamix, water, a nut bag and almonds you should be good to go Annie - you can find recipes on line too.

Sis - do you have recipes for the bread you make? I would like to start making bread at home as well. I keep starting down the path and pinning recipes but I dont know much about it and I find myself questioning ingredients.

I will say for those wanting to follow a plant based diet I find Dr Fuhrman to be a great read (and a good speaker)

For those wanting to have less processed foods in their lives I find this blog great...

My family and I are a work in progress in this area. I wish we were less work and more there. :(

Here is a link that might be useful: 100 days of real food

Homemade nut milk is delicious: 1 cup nuts to 3 cups water in the vitamix. Easy. Sometimes we add vanilla. I also love making my own cashew cream or crema.

Annie you avoided the question. The title said is anyone here vegan. Based on your beliefs there was no reason to open the thread other than for you to restate the arguments that you find tedious. And there is no point for any of us to refute your claims with scuentific data as you will just state how tiresome the whole discussion becomes.

Veganism requires supplements. True. It is restrictive but after the first month it is not difficult or any more time consuming than a vegetrian fiet or a whole foods diet. I feel it's impossible in this situation for the OP to ask questions freely and receive info from experienced healthy vegans when we all know you will try to refute everything while advocating your preferred diets. I would never lobby against lifestyle choices. I've known 6 seemingly healthy pescatarians or ovo lacto athletes that compete on a national level, yet they actually have high cholesterol. Still I'm not going to then say oh no pescatarian or ovo lacto vegetarian diets are not worth pursuing because my friends have health issues or that lifestyle requires work. Your anecdotal claims provide no framework into the original health of your friends or how they nourished their body in the vegan experiment. As far as anecdotal tales, I could offer my own and those of my vegan teammates or other vegan marathon runners or cyclocross atheletes i know but I see no point. It has no merit.

As I've mentioned previously. I have an extremely rare refractory AML. What I didn't mention is my father died of this cancer as well as other family members and some old neighbors. It is both genetically and environmentally caused. There was contamination in my childhood community. My family had the highest rate of cancer as we had the most vulnerable genetic mutations. Anyway, my point is I as a vegan was healthy enough to undergo a BMT as a teenager and then years later a SCT to then regain my health only to have the refractory crap come back. Yet through all of this I have never had a nutritionist at any of the world renown cancer centers where ive sought treatment tell me my diet is lacking or needs to change. If we ignore the cancer or the destruction of the chemo, my bloodwork has been exemplary. It's not uncommon for transplant and chemo patients to have temporary problems with cholesterol. Unlike other family members, I never experienced that. It isn't a cure or a preventative thing. However, my "lacking" diet does keep me strong and lean and able to fight. Both my oncologist and I do think it probably helped prevent some of the more common side effects patients experience. Meanwhile my husband has posted his fastest cyclocross & marathon times since becoming a 99.5% vegan (once every few months he becomes a lapsed vegan and devours a couple slices of pizza after a big race). Tony Gonzalez a 40+ year old vegan played in the NFL and said he was never stronger or faster or healthier than he was one he made the switch to veganism. See what I mean? For every anecdote you provide I and others could provide our own.

Marti- I believe you can send me an email through gardenweb if you have any questions you don't feel comfortable asking here. I also have a ton of websites ive collected over the years to check out if you are looking for creative healthy vegan recipes.

Annie and Boop - making delicious almond milk is a breeze. No pun intended.

1. Simply soak one cup of almonds ( I only use raw organic nuts as I can't imagine that the race car fuel that they use to fumigate almonds will do me as much good as it does the race cars!) overnight or up to 2 days in water. Change the water after 1 day.
2. Rinse the almonds well and add to a blender with 3 to 4 cups of filtered water. Some people add sweeteners such as honey or a date or two and/or flavorings such as vanilla or cinnamon at this stage but I prefer my almond milk to taste natural.
3. Blend completely. In my Vitamix this only takes a few seconds.
4. Strain through a nut milk bag or clean cheesecloth. I put the folded cheesecloth in a fine sieve. Most of the milk will strain unaided but gentle squeezing will complete the process.

You will have delicious, healthy almond milk. You can adjust the amount of water to taste. Use less if you like the milk to be thicker and creamy, more if you like it thinner. The milk will last 3 to 4 days in the refrigerator. Shake or stir before use.

The residual meal can be dried and used for breading or in cake and cookie recipes. It can be frozen for later use.

Boop - bread recipes to follow later.

Sorry, I didn't think this would be such a controversial subject. I do appreciate all the discussion though. It also reminded me why it was so hard to stay on the vegan diet before - so many things are not available in small town stores. I do need to lose weight, and I don't really like meat. Dh puts up with a few vegetarian meals a week but he likes meat, which means I'd have to cook his meals anyway. It was easier to just make a meal with meat and steam veggies for his side dish and my main dish.

I heart, I am very sorry you have the health issues that you do, and I am glad for you that you have found a way to make diet and nutrition work for you and support your health. You seem very mindful and considered in your approach. However, I disagree that my participation in this forum damages your ability to say what you want to say. I would be most interested in seeing some of your favorite recipes as I too cook vegetarian frequently and would love to be able to expand my repertoire, especially with recipes that are T&T, and especially if they don't get their protein from soy. I would also be interested in any low carb recipes you may have as I really struggle with low carb vegetarian...seems to leave not a lot of room on one's plate except for nonstarchy vegetables.

Marti, if your primary goal is to lose weight, be aware that vegetarian or vegan is no guarantee of weight loss. There are overweight vegans and vegetarians, just like there are meat eaters...I remember a vegetarian Indian gal I worked with went through a stressful period and put on 20 lbs. So just as with any diet, things like portion control and exercise level and calories consumed still count.

Thank you sis3. I've looked at almond milk in the stores, but they seem to have a lot of additives that I'd prefer to avoid. I don't have a vitamix...I'd have to experiment to see if my machine is up to the task.

I Heart and Sis - I would like to hear more about your eating lifestyle. I'm very impressed at the benefits you've received from your diet choice. I'd love to see a sample day of what you eat, if you wouldn't mind sharing.

tina

Annie, my #1 goal is to lose weight, but I also have a sugar intolerance and other IBS type symptoms. In order to be "normal" every day, I have to really watch what I eat. If I've been sticking to foods that don't trigger me, I can eat something off limits once with no problems. But if I get lazy (which I have been for awhile), one day of eating sugar and I will not be able to leave the house the next day.

So I really need a diet that only has natural foods so I can live with less medication. My current diet is ok, but I still can't live without medication and I think it's because of carbs. Well, and the junk I give in to. ;)

marti8a, here are some diets for you to consider.

If I were you then I'd definitely look at something like schwarzbein. She is an endocrinologist that worked a lot with diabetics and people with other ailments too. Her controlled carb approach focuses on natural foods, real food, and eating carbs (whole grain and starchy vegetables) with fats and proteins to minimize sugar shock. She also encourages eating 5x per day to keep blood sugar even. She also offers a vegetarian option if that appeals to you.

The other diet you might want to look into is what Dr. Weil is offering which is an anti-inflammatory diet which might help with your IBS type symptoms. And as most balanced diets do, it minimizes sugars and sweets.

There is another diet that I've been looking at that I haven't decided to try yet or not as it is very strict for 3 weeks, but there is a reason behind it. That is the JJ Virgin diet. Her point is to eliminate the 7 foods that are most likely to cause issues for 3 weeks and then gradually add back some of them to better determine which foods are triggers for you. Unfortunately, the 7 foods are more than just a single food, but whole food groups which makes it very restrictive. The foods are:
eggs, dairy, peanuts, soy, gluten, corn, sugar & artificial sweeteners. So that fundamentally leaves you meat and vegetables and fruit, nuts, and seeds. She uses a lot of coconut milk as a substitute for milk and is big into the green goo...vegetable based smoothies. While tough for 3 weeks, this diet might be able to help you identify what foods trigger your issues which may be valuable info for you.

Well you have inspired me I'm going to Christopher's Kitchen for dinner tonight for an organic plant based meal! I could never be a permanent vegetarian though because I like meat. However, I love my veggies too! The other reason I couldn't do it permanently at this time is because I have started working out again and I do not know enough about being a vegetarian or vegan to insure my protein consumption. As it is I 'm supplementing with clean whey protein.

Hi Tina. This diet may look strange and restrictive, especially to anyone who eats a lot of meat or processed foods but I love my diet and feel no deprivation whatsoever, in fact I think I eat very well and never go hungry. I confess that although I have always eaten healthily I have not always salivated at the thought of a salad! However now I wouldn't thank you for a steak but a fresh, crunchy salad....now you're talking!

Breakfast is a bowl of home made cereal (a blend of organic oats, seeds, dried fruits, nuts and any organic crunchy cereal) with my home made almond milk. I have never snacked between meals but if I need anything extra during the day it will be a smoothie made with greens and fruits, or whole fruits.
For lunch, don't laugh, I may indulge my addiction to a banana almond sandwich made with my home made whole grain bread, home made organic almond butter and very ripe (most nutritious) organic banana.
Dinner would be a humongous bowl of organic salad. There are generally in excess of 20 ingredients plus home made no-oil dressing (my favorite recipe is Dr. Fuhrman's almond ginger dressing). The ingredients are chosen for their health giving properties and vary daily. In addition to the salad I eat beans, often a mix of at least 3 types that I cook with tomatoes, mushrooms and onions and various spices or herbs.

Once or twice each week dinner may be a fish dish with a variety of vegetables, or less often it may be a chicken or turkey dish with vegetables. I don't eat potatoes, pasta, or rice as they add calories that I would prefer to be more nutritious ones. I try to always eat dinner before 7pm so that I can fast for at least 12 hours daily, preferably 14 hours.

I realize my diet is not conventional but it is varied, delicious, and above all, highly nutritious. It is also simple and quick to prepare. Now that I have sourced the organic foods, researched the nutritional science, and mastered one or two additional preparation techniques, it really is a breeze to eat this way. My refrigerator is always full of fresh fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds but my pantry is almost empty these days.

sis3, Could you please post the recipe for the almond ginger dressing?

Martia, if you have IBS, I would seriously consider looking at Dr. Fuhrman. He has many soup and smoothie recipes which may help your gut with the absorption of the nutrients. I am thinking of doing a 6 week challenge of his soon because I can tell my body is revolting. We had done it for a while and were happy with it but when we hit financial troubles, we backslid and have kept backsliding but, my daughter's blood sugars (type 1 diabetic) have been more difficult to control now that she has hit puberty and I think I need to start getting us back on track.

One place to look for good vegan recipes is fat free vegan. The author generally focuses on healthier fare so it may be worth a perusal for you. Her recipe for au gratin potatoes is very, very good. There is also a recipe on there right now for a pesto spaghetti squash lasagna that I do believe will be going on next week's menu. It looks scrumptious.

Here is a link that might be useful: Fat Free Vegan Blog

This post was edited by tishtoshnm on Mon, Nov 18, 13 at 21:03

Tina- ill share. Like sis everything in our house is organic. I don't compromise. I think the food taste better. We don't use oil in the house except on very very rare occasions. We sauté in water or homemade veggie broth that I freeze in once cube trays then put in baggies.

Typically I wake around 4:30. I have a glass of water and then exercise

At 6 I have my recovery shake. This varies. If I'm in a hurry ill just mix organic vanillapea protein with 4 oz orange juice and hemp milk or almond milk. Although usually it looks more like this: organic chocolate pea protein powder, hemp or almond milk, chia seeds, flax seeds, frozen banana slice, blueberries and spinach

Breakfast: Farro porridge or steel cut oats or red quinoa porridge mixed with apples or peaches or more berries and topped with almond slivers or walnuts and a splash of maple syrup.

Or I'll have a slice of sprouted 7 grain Ezekiel bread with fresh made almond or peanut butter and an apple

Weekends we tend to do a maple flavored brussel sprout and sweet potato hash with chickpeas and fruit salad (fresh apples, kiwi, grapes, pears and pineapple mixed with frozen peaches and berries) mixed with the juice of 1 lime, and juice of mandarin organge and a tablespoon or so of honey.

Lunch: salads. These vary from a few cups of romaine topped with taco spiced chickpeas or lentils, peppers, cucumbers, salsa avocado and pepitas

To mixed greens, tons of vegetables, beans and Chef Ajs oil free balsamic vinegarette (sooooo good)

To a kale salad with pears, cranberries with roasted veggies and beans.

Or a chopped salad with baked falafel and a Siracha tinged oil free hummus or tahini dressing.

Dinners: vary.

Tonight we had a side salad with a homemade oil free roasted red pepper hummus dressing, broiled portobellos(seasoned like steaks) with mashed cauliflower, steamed broccoli and honeyed carrots (the only way my son eats his carrots)

Tomorrow I'm taking leftover portobellos combining with peppers onions, broccoli and tomato seasoned with cumin Mexican oregano smoked paprika etc and then use as filling for homemade corn tortillas. We will also have my sons favorite Cuban black beans and some "fried" plantains.

Also on the menu this week spaghetti squash with a roasted veggie marinara, Indian spice cauliflower with Chana saag and rice, baked lentils with sides of lightly sauteed greens and "carmelized" butternut squash rings.

Tish- i too love the Fatfreevegan blog. Search for susan's sweet potato casserole. You can cut the fat in her dish some more but it is a perfect dessert addition to the thanksgiving table.

iheart-you're making my mouth water! I just whipped up some meals for my husband to eat while I'm gone next week. mostly meatless-and I'm planning to make some sort of lentil dish with masala simmer sauce. I'm just learning to make Indian food-never had it until recently and now I am a convert.

All the food you've described sounds sooo good!

It does sound good. I had never heard of hemp or chia seeds until I read this thread and today I saw them at Costco of all places. I left them there as I don't really know what to do with them.

What do you do when you are out with friends? Last Thursday I spent the day shopping with friends, one who was here for the weekend. We ate where that friend wanted to eat since she doesn't get out of our small town often, and she wanted to eat at Olive Garden and Chipotles, both with spicy food I try to avoid. And of course Friday I was sick as a dog.

I know myself and dh well enough to know that I can't switch over to anything cold turkey, and I can't get him to do it at all. I need to start with just the ordinary fruits and vegetables available at my small town grocery store and get used to that before bringing in anything new to me.

When I tried vegan before, a friend who was very into it, convinced me to ditch everything in my pantry and buy a lot of new foods so I could make these vegan recipes that sounded like recipes I was used to. Mock tuna casserole made with garbanzo beans. Mock chocolate chip cookies made with carob chips. The thing was, this stuff didn't taste anything like I expected, or liked, and I nearly starved to death trying to find something I could stand to eat.

After a long break, carob chips might taste good. Not like chocolate chips, but good in a different way. I don't know because I never tried them again. And garbanzo beans will never taste like tuna. It would have been better if they had called it Garbanzo bean casserole and left it at that.

But yes, I'll look into Dr. Fuhrman and the others. I was diagnosed by a nutritionist as having Candida but my GYN and family dr both said there was no such thing. My GYN said probably IBS. I didn't try to argue but I've read a lot about Candida and it's not just my imagination. But really, the symptoms are much the same. I just know I have to stick to the Candida diet and supplements, take the Rx from my family dr, and can't skip a meal, or I get sick. Makes it really hard to plan trips, a day out, or even a dental appointment, and I'm tired of living this way.

What are some really good tried and true cookbooks? Both daughters are now vegetarians. (One tried vegan)
My DH is open to anything as long as it tastes good. I can eat something for health benefits only.
I always look online at all the vegetarian sites and Pinterest, but I am not always good at picking recipes.

Marti- eating out can be problematic. I avoid most chain places. I don't believe Olive Garden has anything vegan or easily veganized. We have great local options an Ethiopian place that has several vegan options, plenty of Indian and Thai places that offer vegan options. I also live in a city with many eateties that cater to whole foods farm to table eating. as they also serve meat, its easy to steer anyone there. many pubs will satisfy the burger eaters but Also serve up a portobello burger or a hummus veggie and tortilla chips appetizer. if its not an option i have just ordered fries and a pint of beer before. Surprisingly there is a great German place that offers a plethora of vegetarian and vegan options. Then many places will make a grilled veggie plate (no butter) or some vegan pasta. I am not as strict of a vegan as some. I generally accept that when I eat out my veggies may be grilled on same surface and cross contaminated. Or someone may not understand and I'll eat something with a fraction of fish sauce in some seasoning etc. but usually I just explain I have a dairy and egg allergy and ask for light clarification on any pasta dishes.

We don't have chipotles, however we have moe's. it's easy enough to eat vegan there. I used to eat there once a week with classmates. ill just do a mix of romaine and shredded lettuce double black beans, 1/2 serving of rice mushrooms peppers onions pico guac and cucumbers. And I'll likely grab about 7 or 8 chips and crumble on top. I'd imagine chipotle is same way I would just have to do recon beforehand to determine if the beans or grains are vegan. I won't go near qdoba as nothing is vegan there.

On days where I may be running errands and doing things with my son ill always keep my homemade trail mix (nuts, cinnamon quinoa oat granola clusters, dehydrated berries banana and apples) homemade fruit leather for my son. On road trips we pack cut veggies hummus cups fruit or homemade picnic sandwiches etc.

I never understood the appeal of mock food. Vegan mayo does not taste like hellmans. So why bother? My sandwiches are drizzled with cucumber sauce or mustard or mustard vinegar concoction or Siracha rtc etc. however some things I make remind me of old favorites? On a cold night instead of beef bourguignon we love mushroom bourguignon. Just like the traditional beef version my version has the carrots, pearl onions, wine, thyme etc. i just bump it up eith a mix of gourmet mushrooms and some diced peppers and celery. oh and my version only takes 35-40 minutes to make! I do find chickpeas are a great stand in for many chicken dishes as long as its the flavor you are wanting and not the mouth feel of chewing chicken: chickpea noodle or dumpling soup, chickpea cacciatore,chickpea piccata etc. lentils are a great stand in for ground meat on things like shepherds pie or tacos or a lentil loaf can be a nice alternative on a family dinner night.

To me the hardest thing about vegan cooking is getting the depth of flavor which is why I love things like chickpea miso (instead of soy miso), black bean paste, vegan Worcestershire sauce, maple syrup, smoked paprika (instead of the ham hock in beans a pinch of this lends that smoky flavor) and my spices take up two drawers. It takes a while to learn to cook differently than you have but it can be fun and freeing.

Ellendi-

Not all of these are vegan but its easy to veganize and as yor daughters are vegetarian I thought I could include them:

Mediterranean Harvest by martha rose shulman
Vegan soul kitchen by Bryant Terry
Super natural everyday by Heidi Swanson
The modern vegetarian kitchen by Peter berley
Herbivoracious by Michael natkin
Appetite for Reduction by Ida Chandra moskowitz
Plenty by Yotam Ottolenghi. Heavy for my taste lots of oil but I've managed to lighten these up without ruining the taste. Plus the photography is gorgeous.
A year in the vegetarian kitchen is good but I found things needed tweaked a bit

Oh and at Holidays these are higher fat or sugar and by no means healthy good although I have made healthier version of many meals :

Vegan cookies invade your Cookie jar
Vegan pie in the sky
Vegan cupcakes take over the world
Veganomicon

Thank you both for sharing. Very insightful.

iheart, your diet is very interesting. I was wondering, is there a reason why you go as fat-free as you do?

I use olive oil or walnut oil in salad dressing and olive or peanut oil to actually saute rather than steam as I find it adds more flavor to the food, fats are essential, and they help stave off hunger. I also need to take high lignan flax seed oil daily to keep my aches and pains at bay.

I was wondering about that as well. It seems like oils would be an essential part of vegan eating.

I can't speak for iheart, but many vegans eat nuts and seeds not oils to meet the daily fat requirement. Dr F for example recommends an oz of flax seeds and an oz of nuts (more if you excercise heavily or have other circumstances that require it) to get your fats in.

Beans are also very good at staving off hunger.

Iheart thank you so much for the books. I am going to add them to my amazon list. :)

Sigh. I have to start cooking. This thread has been a good nudge!

For vegetarian cookbooks (some with vegan options, and some recipes still decadent):

Most bycookbooks by Deborah Madison.
The Moosewood series of Cookbooks are generally very good and most recipes are not overly complicated.
Passionate Vegetarian by Crescent Dragonwagon (a gem because she gives many options for modifications)
I second Appetite for Reduction and Plenty.
A good blog for vegetarian food is 101 Cookbooks. The author of that blog also has some cookbooks of her own out that are quite good.

Because it is that time of year, here is a link to a pumpkin custard that is vegan and delicious. I have used almonds in it instead of cashews with success too.

Here is a link that might be useful: Vegan, pumpkin custard

I find this thread has a wealth of info, and I will save all of it with some edits. I have been making changes to our diet since both our adult kids have made changes , son is paleo no dairy and DD is very low carb . I don't feel I have to make drastic changes to my diet except cutting out
sugar , although I have cut it drastically I still get cravings a lot and I don't bake anymore nor do I have cake or cookies in the house. I do go out a lot so the temptations are everywhere, lol…..

Boop pretty much nailed it. We used to saute in oil or use finishing oils like sesame but I was having stomach issues when I developed GVHD after my transplant. We eliminated the oils and I had less issues. After the GVHD cleared up, we saw no reason to go back. For example, I eliminate oil in hummus but I actually add in pine nuts and sesame seeds. Therefore I added fat back. We get enough fat throughout the day in avocados, seeds and nuts. Flax seeds are added to shakes and/or oatmeal so why bother with flax seed oil? we also are a young family with no persistant aches or pains yet. Maybe, as we age, i will change my stance? We do keep oils in the pantry. It's a must for certain dishes we eat infrequently: latkes, crispy eggplant, Harrissa oil on top of soup etc. in addition, by cooking oil free, i am less on edge about how much oil or fat is in a dish when we eat outside of the home once a week with friends or Sunday dinners with family.

Thanks. I will be looking at all the cookbook options!

Marti,
One of the things I read in a book called the Small Change diet (I think that's the title, I'm not home right now to check) was to make one change at a time and master it before moving on. Instead of a complete overhaul, which can be overwhelming and hard to maintain, break it into steps. Maybe no added sugars first. Then a few days a week only eating vegetarian. Then one vegan day a week. Whatever, you get the idea.

If you don't already read it, I hope you'll join in the montly discussions in the Healthy check-in threads that start the beginning of every month. There's always a wealth of info and support for any healthy habit we are attempting to change, adapt, or master.

Good luck.

My favorite vegetarian cookbook I believe is no longer in print...it was called "lean luscious and meatless".

hhireno, I like that approach, small steps, it all boils down to moderation for me . Less carbs, less oil, less sugar etc..

I realized lately that I never have rich desserts anymore, it took a long time for me to be able to resist them , specially in restaurants that had sticky toffee pudding cake, lol…

Along hhi suggestions and Annie's disdain of a fully vegan diet you could always take the mark bittman approach: vegan before 6. Then eat reasonably anything you'd like for dinner. It would also give you more flexibility when dining out with friends or family. It appears your attraction to the diet is health so even partial approaches like that will likely help.

IHGS,
Ooo, good thinking! Vegan before 6 might also be a great way for her to ease her husband into healthier eating. I adapt Bittman's V6 black bean fajitas recipe and serve it over rice instead of on corn tortillas (too hard to eat) and offer my husband cheese to sprinkle on his dish. Now that I'm thinking about it, we'll be having that this week. Yay! Thanks for reminding me.

I also think small steps are a good approach. If you have health issues, it will be much easier to identify changes that are causing additional problems.

Small steps worked for me. I carried around 6 or 7 extra pounds for years. No matter how much I exercised, the weight rarely changed. Then I made a few small, significant changes in my diet and the weight came right off.

First, I substituted my morning breakfast of plain toast with whole grain toast, peanut butter and chia seeds and immediately stopped snacking all morning long.

My other downfall was salty snacks - crackers, chips, pretzels, etc. Now I get a container of good briny olives from the olive bar at the deli. Every time I get a salt craving I pop an olive in my mouth. The craving almost always vanishes. The olives might seem expensive but they are so light it takes a ton to make a pound. Yesterday I bought ten or twelve and it was 36 cents!

The problem I struggle with is low carb vegetarian. Is there such a thing? If you're not getting your protein from meat, then it seems to come with lots of carbs...like milk or rice or beans or quinoa. Probably the only exception is nuts and cheese. Tofu, but then that's soy.

Annie, many vegetarians eat eggs so that is protein without a lot of carbs. For baked goods, I have made many things that use coconut flour which also use a lot of eggs so those are a higher protein treat. I also make some breads and brownies with almond butter, again, protein. There are also many gluten free recipes that use almond flour which are higher in protein than their wheat counterparts.

Annie- I don't eat a carb heavy diet. I do eat carbs though. I'm a fan of sweet potatoes, fruit and quinoa. When I used to run marathons and play soccer 4x a week I ate a LOT of carbs. Now I eat carbs in relation to how much exercise I do during the day. I'll ramp up my carbs again as I resume my athletic pursuits.

My protein comes from nuts, beans, seeds an even the veggie themselves. Plus my recovery shake has over 25 rams of protein. 22 from the protein powder alone. My milk choices are NOT high carb. Almond milk only has 1-2 g per serving.

I also choose to ocassionally eat Ezekiel sprouted grain bread which does not contain wheat and is only 15g arbs 0g sugar and 4 G protein.

Dee are those olives in a vinegar brine? And what do you do with the chia seeds? Just eat them? Or do you grind them?

I remember reading somewhere what it means if you have a salty snack craving or a sweet snack craving, but for the life of me, I can't remember what it means now. My dh craves salty and I crave sweet.

I need to go to the grocery store today. I don't really feel good so I don't know if I'll make it, but the cupboard is bare, so.....

The American diet in general is so bad. I understand and appreciate the warning to be careful if you plan to go vegetarian or, more strictly vegan. You really do have to know what you are doing. Although our traditional American food pyramid is said to not be so healthy either.

I eat a lot of vegetarian and vegan dishes but do not exclude meat entirely from my diet. I think we likely need some in our diet as this is how we have evolved. That we need B12 to survive and that it only comes from animal products, says a lot about our bodies' fundamental requirements for eating, imo. Even small deficiencies in B12 can cause health problems.

I also believe that all the nutritional benefits of a given food source are not known to man or fully understood. So that even with protein, B12 being accounted for to compensate the removal of meat from the diet, there are likely oodles of other nutrients made available that we are not even aware of. They are constantly discovering new things and finding they didn't understand others. Phytonutrients being one example. We are not and will never be the Master of Mother Nature.

Our bodies are all are somewhat different, only time will tell how a given diet will affect someone. Making a wide variety of foods available for processing is a good approach, imo.

I think doctors Furhman, Virgin, Amen, Hyman and Barnard have a lot of good suggestions for eating for optimum health and disease control. The weight also comes off naturally on these diets. Paleo is supposed to be another similar miracle diet, but they say to eliminate beans and legumes. Some of the other doctors rave about their health benefits.

Virgin's elimination approach, later reintroducing foods gradually to see how the body reacts is a good one, imo. I also think approaching diet changes incrementally in more manageable steps is a good one. Gradually building a better diet so you don't give up by trying to change all at once.

Wow I love some of those foods though, lol. And now I'm reading about nightshades :( Tomatoes and peppers!? Just stop. I love to cook and eat and all the restrictions can be so discouraging. I have, in fact, noticed the aches and other things reemerge when I binge on the bad foods (or seemingly good foods) though and our taste buds do change according to our diets.

All this interest in food, diets and how it affects our health is a very good thing!

This post was edited by snookums2 on Wed, Nov 20, 13 at 14:09

Marti,
I put a tablespoon of chia seeds (whole, not ground) in with my yogurt, granola, and fruit. (In case you're confused by my morning yogurt, I don't follow the Vegan before 6, but I do use some of his recipes.) They're meant to be eaten as is, not ground like flax seed.

Perhaps unrelated to this discussion on vegan diets but, have you been checked for celiac disease? If you have digestive issues and don't feel well it might be worth a blood test to see if that could be playing a role. I know it's the hot new trend, all the cool kids have it, but I have 3 family members recently diagnosed so it's not far from my mind. In the short run it might complicate your diet, learning to eat without wheat and other grains, but in the long run you'd feel better. Just a thought, feel free to disregard it.

I think that in general you don't need as much protien as you think. Or maybe I should say I think there is more protien in veggies then you would think.

One of these days I will do one of those on line programs that calculates everything for you. :)

{{gwi:1526138}}

Here is a link that might be useful: another chart showing per calorie protien in veggies and meat

This post was edited by boopadaboo on Wed, Nov 20, 13 at 16:10

boop, I'm not sure what that chart is supposed to be telling us, but the data doesn't agree with what I see at nutrition data.

For example, when I put in kale, it says it's 71% carbs, 12% fat and 17% protein.

When I put in broccoli, it says it is 73% carbs, 10% fat, and 17% protein.

When I put in a roasted chicken breast, it says it is 0% carbs, 20% fat, and 80% protein.

When I put in egg, it says it's 3% carb, 62% fat and 35% protein.

And that's excluding the issues of whether it is a complete protein and the reduced bio-availability of protein in things like vegetables.

The chart also doesn't talk about portion. So one egg provides 17 g of complete protein, where as to get 17 g of protein (incomplete) out of broccoli, you'd have to eat almost 3 cups.

Here is a link that might be useful: nutrition data

This post was edited by AnnieDeighnaugh on Wed, Nov 20, 13 at 15:49

Overall, my point was, I dont think you really have to worry about getting enough protein, or what "kind" of protein. Dr Furhman probably says it better than I could. :)

I thought that chart (and other ones I have seen) was related to protein per calorie, but I could be wrong ( I would need to go look it up in Eat to Live, but I dont have a copy at work anymore), and of course you are correct, that you would need to eat a larger portion of vegetables to get the same amount of protein as in a meat, and that was what I meant by saying you don't need as much as one would think, but I think the link says it better than I could. I am not a nutritionist by any stretch of the imagination.

Here is a link that might be useful: Protien deficiency

My argument about eating meat is that todays commercially available non-vegetable protien sources (meat, eggs, dairy) are so pumped full of chemicals, antibiotics and hormones that it resembles nothing our ancestors consumed. Its much easier to get organic produce (and eggs) than meat or cheese.

Todays commercially available foods are so bad for us! Preservatives, HFCS, GMO and hormones....yeech! Even at a fine restaurant you cant be sure of the food source. That is why Ive taken a step back from processed-even `healthy` processed foods (hidden sodium, sugar & gluten) in favor of as raw and natural as I can. Tastes ever so much better, and I FEEL better eating clean.

As mentioned, the typical American diet is wretched. Frabkly, Im dreading T-giving dinner at my sisters-lots of white flour based foods, few greens (ice berg salad and green bean casserole dont count) and cream based everything else. My kids are vegetarian, and one year we had a delicious meal that did include turkey, but also delicious squash casseroles (with maple syrup), and dishes prepared as theyd been at the first Thanksgiving. Far superior!

Marti - I sprinkle the chia seeds right on the peanut butter. They are like small poppy seeds but don't have much flavor. If you put them in a smoothie, they dissolve a bit. You don't need to grind them to get the benefits,

The olives I get are not vinegary. Other types might be. The olive bar is great because we can try different types without spending $5 or $6 for an entire bottle. To me, the olives have a more appealing texture than bottled olives.

Actually I have no trouble finding organic chicken and grass fed beef.

Pesky, will you be bringing something more to your liking to tgiving dinner?

I'm making pumpkin chiffon pie. Yum!

Im on my mobile phone, so please forgive the typos/grammar.

In our area you rarely find organic meat-ive found a very small selection at one of the major grocery stores in town, the others in that chain dont carry organic. You can get `locally grown` but its not organic. Even the grass fed can have hormones and antobiotics pumped into the animal. In yhe smaller towns, its non-existent. And I live in an ag heavy area. Easier to find organic veggies here, particularly at the farmers market. But still, selection is limited. Some stores are carrying more organic prepared foods, like bread & yogurt, but its still a minority. We have two or 3 `health food` stores, but its such a small, highly priced selection.

Im flying to my sisters, so not bringing anything. But hope to be able to cook up a healthy choice. The majority of the guests (20!) are not of the same dietary realm as me, but I dont try to impose my choices on them. I just eschew the garbage and try to load up on the healthier choices. If that means eating the crudite plate by myself, so be it! :) My brother calls me a hippy because I dont eat bologna, and I drink organic soy milk and eat vegan on occasion. My mother thinks all I eat is broccoli. I DO wear Birkenstocks tho...

This post was edited by pesky1 on Wed, Nov 20, 13 at 20:03

Pesky, I totally agree about the quality of our animal products. It doesn't stop with them though. Grains are said to also not be what our ancestors ate, not good at all these days, even eliminate. Fruits and vegetables have had a lot of their taste and nutrition bred out of them in favor of long shelf life and other more marketable qualities. But I agree, the hormones, antibiotics, living conditions are wretched -- at least lower your intake of the bad stuff. It's just shameful what has happened to our food. But they probably didn't realize it at the time. What really gets me is these natural/organic companies that advertise healthy foods but load them with things like cane sugar. I lump Whole Foods into that group. Soy and corn are other spoiled and contaminated food sources that turn up in so many processed things. I read all labels and try not to buy any of those -- unless I'm desperate for something to eat!

Grass-fed beef and organic chicken is easily accessible here, as well as eggs, dairy and other products. At Whole Foods their meats do not have antibiotics or hormones and pasture fed is available (maybe not all types of meat). But gads, that organic cheese I was looking at, the only one available, was $32 per pound. Ain't gonna happen, lol. But I don't eat cheese or dairy often. Organic chicken and grass fed beef is expensive, running about $8 pound for both as I recall -- that would be chicken breast and ground beef. A lot when you can get the regular chicken for something like $3. I have read the GF beef is as healthy as fish. Sure hope, but it unfortunately doesn't have all the flavor grain fed does. So sometimes I just want a disgustingly unhealthy burger!

This post was edited by snookums2 on Wed, Nov 20, 13 at 21:18

Interesting...I've found the grass fed beef to be more flavorful...it tastes more like what it did when I was growing up.

We have a butcher shop that specializes in grass fed but grain finished beef. They buy local too. We bought strip steak that was excellent...but it was $25/lb!!

I have read that people find it to be a more gamey flavor. I don't know that I would know that flavor and it sounds strong, but what I find is little flavor at all. So I use healthy toppings to add interest and still get a juicy burger. I was wondering about where that old fashioned burger flavor had gone before becoming aware of grass fed though. I had bought my hamburger (ground chuck) from the same butcher at the farmer's market as we did growing up and was finding it to have no flavor! Very frustrating. Figured it was all the fat reduction these days, as that's where so much of the flavor lies.

It's funny...gamey is a distinct flavor that, even if you never tasted it, you'll know it right away. I remember tasting it the first time I had bison. Bison, BTW are all grass fed as that's the only way they can raise them.