Could you post the entire floorplan? The drawings you have posted do not provide enough information. Windows? Doorways? Adjacencies to other rooms? The two plans look like the rooms could be completely different...what are the restrictions and parameters other than an overall dimension.

According to the drawing you have 5 feet of true counter depth refrigerator/freezer indicated: is that what you are planning? If so, you are limited to a couple manufacturers in the $9000.00 and up range for these appliances. That might be in your budget, I dunno.

What have the KD's not been able to give you? Do you really know what it is you want other than the basics listed above? I think a lot more details are needed in order to give you reasonable advice:)

Have you had a chance to read the "Read Me" thread? It discusses what information both on the layout and in your description is needed to help us help you get the best layout for you and your family. [Scroll down to the "Layout Help" topic.]

This is especially important in your case b/c you have been having problems w/other KDs giving you what you want/need. We don't want to repeat their mistakes! :-)

Here is a link that might be useful: Read Me If You're New To GW Kitchens!

Sorry I did not provide enough information. I've added complete floor plans to flikr (link at the bottom).

* Usually just me working in the kitchen...the kids will probably be doing homework, art, etc at the table
* Appliances:
Kenmore Freeer only, Fridge only with trim kit (75 1/4"H 66 3/4"W x 25 1/4"D
Sharp Drawer microwave (30")
Kenmore Dishwasher: 34 1/4"H x 23 7/8"W x 25 1/4"D
36" Electric Induction Cooktop 4290
Kenmore Double Oven: 50 1/2"H x 29 1/5"D x30"W
Sink: 30" single bowl

* Who else will use the kitchen and for what? 3 children (9, 5, 2); would prefer typical table height not counter height or bar seating
* Its not a passage way to another part of the house.
* What are your storage needs? Most food items will go in the pantry. We plan to have pots stored under the cooktop
* Wants: I would like the cooktop in the center of the back wall...it looks balanced there to me. I'd also like the sink and dishwasher in the island if possible. I do lots of cakes. I would like some continuous countertop space for fondant and cake prep.

* What is your budget? At this point, the kitchen is framed...changes can be made.

I hope I've answered some necessary questions. I appreciate any and all help.

This is the floor plan with the initial kitchen design before the appliances were decided.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/58992490@N04/5405379156/

Here is a link that might be useful: Flikr with complete floor plan uploaded

Layout 1?

A layout (??) with measurements

Full floor layout:

To those trying to help, I've read and tried to post images into the msg and am unable to do so.
Layout 1 above: my last ditch effort last night...I don't think chairs will fit around the island, though

Layout 2: original plan prior to appliances decided on; also the wall that joins the hallway has been moved out 6" therefore adding 6" to the width of the kitchen (total width now 186")

Layout 3: Full floor layout

Again, thanks for looking and I appreciate any input.

I understand. I had to read the help information on Flickr to figure out how to post your pics above as well. I don't know why Flickr makes you jump through so many hoops to post a pic!

I've just added the instructions for Flickr to the "Posting Pictures" thread...so now others w/Flickr will know as well. (So we now have instructions for Photobucket, Picasa, Flickr, and PDFs...)

I'll try to get to your layout tonight if I have time after dinner, homework, etc. :-)

In the middle (hand drawn) picture, the issue I see is with the sink. You don't want a sink without counter space to both sides of it. I don't like the layout from the builder. For me, it goes against the natural flow in a kitchen. In theory, you want to go from frig/pantry, to sink for prep, and then to stove/cooktop. What if you were to put a cleanup area with sink/DW on the other leg of the U, a prep sink in the island, and reconsider the desk since you'll be using the island as HW space. I like the cooktop on the back wall but would not put the DB ovens right next to it. You would want to have counter space on either side of the cooktop. Those are just my initial thoughts... what do you think?

I see 70 square feet given over to the laundry, most of which is really a 5 foot hallway, it appears.

If the door the the garage were over further to the right, and the laundry were smaller you may be able to apportion that space to a full walk in pantry which could, in turn give a bit more space in the kitchen. It would also involve re positioning the attic pulldown.

Or you could have a walk through combined pantry and laundry rather than having these areas completely separated.
You could have two doors in from the garage, one directly into the house and one into the laundry pantry combo.

Right now the pantry is very close to the garage entry but quite a walk, and the laundry seems very isolated from the house.

Thanks, buehl! I'll read those instructions.

Remodelfla: Yes, the issue is the sink. I really want it to be in the island (seems like it would flow well there) but there is not counterspace on each side. As far as the double ovens, I wanted those in the opposite corner from the pantry--it looked symmetrical to me, but one KD told me it would be too much wasted space. My issue with putting the sink and dishwasher on the leg opposite the frig, is that it would take up the continuous counterspace that I'd like to have for baking/fondant work.

Palimpsest: The laundry room is actually a laundry/mudroom. There will be a built-in cubby for each person in the family to put their shoes, coat, backpack, purse, etc.

Here are some design ideas from KD and my husband:

KD#2 (didn't listen to dimensions of appliances)

Design from husband (I think it would be awkward for the kids to grab a quick snack)

Husband design #2 (don't like the placement of the cooktop and unsure if seating will work) Yes, that wall leading to the kid's BRs can be shortened some.

Thanks again for any input or ideas.
Tiffany

In both plans, I see a sizable kitchen with, especially the hand drawn plan, all the important elements squeezed together in one spot.

In the builder's plan, I'd move the fridge to the other side of the pantry, move the stove behind the island, and put a prep sink on the corner of the island between the fridge and sink.

The oven could go by the fridge on the left side of the pantry, or I'd reconfigure the pantry so there was less of it on the stove wall and tuck the oven in next to it....So it'd be to the left of the cooktop but with a couple feet in between.

The counter area on the left would be great for breakfast/snack center.

But I agree with Palimpsest that the hall/laundry isn't a very efficient use of square footage and does not make for a nice laundry room.

Husband #1 (the G-shape) is way too complicated and traps
you in the kitchen.

I think getting the sink and DW on the island and having it face out in that orientation is going to be a tough one, dimension wise. I don't think the kitchen is quite big enough. This may be why no one can do it successfully.

I am not suggesting removing the mudroom entry but I would rework the circulation through it. It may be more successful to combine pantry and laundry and have the mudroom as well but improve the circulation.

The hallway back to the kids bedroom is also 50" you could probably borrow a few inches from that for the kitchen to try to get the island in. 44" would still make a decent bedroom hallway.

Why do you want the sink and DW in the island? It eats up valuable workspace and puts dirty dishes in the face of anyone sitting at the island.

Is it b/c you want to face people while working? Well then look at these statistics works studies have found: 70% of the work done and time spent in the kitchen is spent prepping
20% is spent cleaning up
10% is spent cooking

If you want to visit people while working, then it makes the most sense to have your Prep Zone in the island. Add a prep sink in the island and it now becomes a big expanse of workspace for large projects like baking, cake making, homework, school/science fair, gift wrapping, crafts, etc.

The above also explains why it's best to have an island all one level...to maximize workspace. If your island is big enough, you can fit two levels, but you should have an island big enough to make both levels a decent size.

Is the desk necessary? Most people remodeling are taking desks out of their kitchens b/c they've found they're really nothing more than clutter magnets! With laptop computers becoming more the norm than the exception these days, it can be used just about anywhere...on the island, at a table, etc.

You could create a Message/Command Center where the desk is, but don't make it too big and don't put a chair space there. Make it base cabinet (drawers or drawer + ROTS) with an upper cabinet and you can corral the clutter somewhat. Put the family calendar, landline phone/answering machine, charging station, keys, mail organizer, note board, pens/pencils, note pads, etc. in that area. Or, make it a tall cabinet and create an "Organization Closet" that has doors that open out and in and that can be closed to hide the clutter when you have company(Sweeby, the creator of the "Sweeby Test", has one.)

Regardless of the option you go with (desk, Message/Command Center, Organization Closet), I'd make it somewhere b/w 24" and 36" wide. Any more and I think you're wasting space that could be used in the kitchen, especially with that pantry taking up so much room. (I'm not saying get rid of it, as a matter of fact I have a corner pantry that I really like, but mine is not in the middle of the kitchen separating key appliances and possibly Zones...let's try to make the pantry work!)

Here is a link that might be useful:

Great ideas and things to think about. Why do I want the sink in the island...I was thinking if I got something out of the frig that needed to be washed, the sink would be close. Also, for clean-up, the sink would be close to the table for quick and easy clean-up after dinner. If the sink and DW are not in the island, where should they go. KD#1 suggested the sink go in the opposite corner from the pantry. What do you think?

I like the idea of a message center-that's really what I need!
Thanks, buehl, for the questions and detailed post. I truly appreciate the help!

Tiffany