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Sabs83, thanks again for all this great information, you helped me initially with my purchase of the Carrier Greenspeed and I find your numbers very similar to mine in terms of efficiency. I and any potential owners in the Northeast and colder climates really appreciate this very much and I hope to be able to do the same after the coming winter.

Sabs83, that was great and helpful. Being from Massachusetts and also a cold weather area, its helpful to know that the system performed well.

Not surprised...wow!

Any prolonged power outages?

Certainly an alternative to geo HP...

Hey Tiger, we had no power outages.... We have not invested in a Generator as of yet, BUT, might not be a bad idea! :)

Hey Rayball, I used Climate Design Systems located at 15 Aegean Drive, Unit 3, Methuen MA. I had Chuck Marsden as a sales rep (who bent over backwards). They can be reached at 800-272-2334 or 978-689-8312.

I had a great experience with them! Their installers (Mike and Mike) were great too!! Also bent over backwards to make sure I was happy... AND I am! :) Here is their website too http://www.climatedesignsystems.com/

Much has been said about a noise issue with GreenSpeed. What has been your experience?

TD

TD, We have had no issues with the noise. Seems very quiet to me..... The Outdoor Unit is right next to my living room and we have never heard it. It is also pretty close to our deck and again have never heard it. You have to get real close to it..... I am surprised people have issues with the noise!

The noise issue is documented and out there but a very minute %....obviously you had a good install and I will assume Greenspeed has met your expectations.

Enjoy those nice savings over fuel oil.

TD

Hi,
We had an older Carrier system (15 years old) and we replaced it with a 25VNA048A300 heat pump and replaced the whole AC/Heating system including the electrical furnace with the Infinity system in june 2014.

Our house is about 2900 square feet, 15 years old, well insulated located north of Montreal.

During the summer, it was incredible, We basically could not hear this thing. The previous Carrier system was oooo so noisy (4T also). For the new one, I had to go outside close to the HP to hear it.

Last night, (december 2) it dropped to 5F outside. altough the noise is not as bad as the previous HP, it is clearly heard everywhere in the house.

I saw the noise increase slowly with the percentage of use of the HP and the colder temperatures outside. When the HP runs at 100% like this morning during the smart recovery period, I certainly do not have to go outside to hear it.

We were so amazed by the silence of this system during the summer, it might be the reason why we are a bit sad of the results close to the balance point in heat mode.

Some results for my house:
Electric heat lockout is set at 5F, about the balance point I beleive. Electric heat during defrost is disabled and the defrost period seems short enough so that we really do not feel any real discomfort from the `burst of cold air'.

Last night was the perfect night for tests. In the morning at 8:30 we have a set temperature of 73. So recovery period is from 7:00 to 8:30. It comes up from 71.

This morning at 5F outside, the HP spinned at 100% from 7ish to around 9. So it needed a bit more than the standard 90 minutes smart recovery time to get back to the set temperature. Normally, when outside temp is above 10F, the HP takes less than 90 minutes to get to the target temp.

I am wondering if I should not drop the electrical lockout and balance point another degree or two ?

But the noise is probably a reason not to do so.

We are not regretting our pruchase up to now but we hope noise will not get worst.

Between this new system and the older Carrier system, we should save well above 1000$ of energy cost this year from what I can see now.

MB

This noise issue should be reported to your installer. It is a known Carrier issue with the GreenSpeed in heating mode at low outside temps.

Document in writing and ask dealer what Carrier plans to do about it.

See if this you tube link is similar to what you are experiencing. Carrier should replace condenser.

IMO

Here is a link that might be useful: Carrier Greenspeed Noise Problems

This post was edited by tigerdunes on Tue, Dec 2, 14 at 12:36

Did the Carrier dealer install the noise muffler? This is something that must be done at the time of installation. There is a document on how to do this properly.

You can disable the smart recovery feature. I personally don't care for it but I have a gas furnace. It may be more useful with a heat pump at low temperatures.

Thanks tigerdunes,
It is not as bad as the video but it is definitely of the same type and geting worst with the coming cold.

And Mike, yes the muffler is there since day one.

From what I read, it is not evident to me if Carrier as a real solution. Is it a "by design" problem ? Should have read about it before buying... a c'est la vie!

MB

Did the Carrier dealer install the noise muffler? This is something that must be done at the time of installation. There is a document on how to do this properly.

You can disable the smart recovery feature. I personally don't care for it but I have a gas furnace. It may be more useful with a heat pump at low temperatures.

I do have the same unit and I am in Brossard, a suburb of Montreal. I did have the noise problem and my dealer installed spings under the compressor. Now the noise is way, way lower than before when it is -11C outside and the HP runs for a long time at 100%

My prolbem is different. When It is -11C outside for the whole night and the thermostat is set at 23C all the time, no smart recovery. In the morring the temerature in the house is 21C. The HP is not able to keep the temeratue at 23C. I do have 98% Carrier gas furance, but I have it locked until -12C. My house is built in 1984, but it has extra insulation in the walls and in the attick. Any idea if the HP is faulty or that is what the HP could do? Thank you in advance.

I have a 4Ton Infinity unit for a 2900 square feet house build in 99. As you know last night was -15C around Montreal. My electric heat lockout is set at -15C (5F). It was just barely above 5F this morning here during smart recovery and the HP was able to climb back from 71F to 73F inside. It was running at 100% with all that jazz for about 2 hours but it did it. With the sun now, the unit is off and it is currently 17F outside at the HP. I have a lot of window surface facing south so the sun has an enormous influence on the daily energy use.

In the morning early, the sun is too low and does not inflence so much my recovery period that begins at 7AM.

I would guess that either your unit is not big enough or it has a problem.... but I am just a user not an expert.

And with the noise this unit is throwing out, I doubt that spring will make the trick significantly. The noise is not a vibrating thing it comes from the compressor or the components and last night was a heck of a concert!

The unit that I have is 3T outside and 4T inside coill. This was the optimum for a better HSPF combination according to Carrier charts. Before I had a 3 piece Carrier 2.5T. My outside unit is not facing any sun now. The HP just catgh up at 11:30AM when the outside temerature rose to -4C. I emailed my dealer but normaly they are very busy when it is cold. I hope I will hear from him soon. I pass my 1 year labor warranty in May 2014, but I hope they will owner the warranty because I had this problem last winter and they changed the comperssor at that time.
In regards to the noise. My unit is attached to the fondation wall and before the springs there was vibration that I felt it in the kitchen big time. Now with the springs ( not rubber mats) there is a significant difference.

What is the size of your house about in sqf ?

My previous Carrier system (15 years old) was 4T and did the job perfectly and this new one, except for the racket, does the job too.

My HP is not facing south, My house south facing wall has a lot of big Windows.

My previous Carrier system had a 10 years full warranty. This new one just has a 1 year manpower but 10 years parts, this is sad.

Springs indeed...what a joke Carrier!...

TD

I have a split level built in 1984. 2 inch extruded Polystyrene Insulation just after the biricks and the standrat fiberglass insulation in the wood framing. I have not seen any other house built in the 80s ot have the extruded insulation between the bricks and the wood construction, so I presume that my house is insulated better than the requirment s of the building code for 1984. I have around 1800-1900 SF for the two floors taht I have. The windows in the back are brand new with low e, and in the fornt are the original casment but in good shape. Normally I have $1200 for elecricy and $500-$600 of gas bills before put this unit. Also take in consideration that I have the so called DT rate form Hydro Quebec. Up to -12C it is around $0.045/Kwh and when it is -12C and colder goes to $0.21/Kwh.

The springs solutions came as a solution from the Carrier dealer, but it is effective.

The springs idea came as a solution from the Carrier dealer, but it is effective.

I have decided instead of waking up at lower than 23C in the house I set the lockout of the furnace to start at 13F. In this case the gas helps the HP and as of today when it is -14C I could have 23C. Installers form other forums are telling me that I am expecting too much form the 25VNA and that I should do that. I guess I did expect better from this unit.

The Infinity controller can support two lockout temperatures. One temperature which locks out the furnace, and a second to lock out the heat pump. For example you could set the lock temperatures at 5F and 13F. Any temperature above 13F only the heat pump will operate. When the temperature goes below 5F only the furnace will operate. In between the two temperatures the heat pump will first try to satisfy the thermostat. If it can't after a period of time it will shut off and allow the furnace to operate.

By default this feature is turned off. The settings are available in the service menu. The installer should be able to change the settings.

I have a 25VNA048 for a 2900 square feet house (basement excluded as usal).

This new unit makes so much noise in cold temperatures that I just, 2 days ago, clipped the max rpm from 7000 to the minimum 4xxx. Last night and today is again a 5F type weather here and the system still keeps up with a 74F setup inside. Lowering the RPM lowers the heat output of the HP but even then it is good enough except for noise which is a bit more tolerable but not a success.

I have removed the HP lockout below x following a recommandation of someone else on this site but kept the above 5F lockout for electric heat. This last one makes a huge difference on the average daily energy use but makes the system slower to respond to an Inside temperature increase in the morning for exemple.

So Elena, not sure I understand why other distributors are saying not to ask toooo much from the 25VNA. Efficiency is definetly not a problem in my case (but noise is!).
I was surprised to find out that the electric heat lockout does not go below 5F, I would have tested the HP system even below, altough I would have probably awaken the whole street.

Just to let all know, I bought a new Carrier system with eyes nearly closed because my previous Carrier system gave me about 16 years of confort without a single real service call in the same house and I went for an entirely new Carrier because of energy efficiency.

Should have opened my eyes....

Thank you all for your input, it helps circling the problem.

MBCan, thank you very much for replaying to my post

I have DT rate, so at -12C I must go to gas heating only because the electricity is getting very expencive. I was trying initialy to lock the gas out until it gets ask cold as -12C so I could take advantage of the HP, but it looks like my unit cannot keep the house temerature at 23C (74F), and I did change the lockout of the gas to -10C. Now when I wake up in the morning when it is a border line -10C to -12C I have the gas help the HP and I could keep the inside temperature at 23C. It is sad because as you (MBCan) mentioned it should be able to work well even till -15C, but not in my case.

In regards to the noise the springs under the compressor help. My problem was vibration mostly, not noise. The compressor is not limited in the settings but even without the limitation the efficiency is not there. My dealer is Klimfax, and they are based in Longueuil if you decide to go with the springs.

I will call Carrier Canada and I will try to find out if there is a way to improve the HP. I did check the temerature of the air going to the coil and just after the coil in the plenum. The intake was around 71F and after the coil was 91F.

Thank you again for discussing this matter with me.

Mike_home,

Yes I have the HP set at 5F and the gas is at 13F now, but also I have the utility curtailment active for the HP when it is colder than -12C (10.4F)

What is a utility curtailment? I have never heard of this term.

Utility Curtailment is used when the utility company gas or electricity has higher or lower price rate at certan conditions. In this case the company sends a signal and the HP or the furnace is cut off or used at lower capacity.

In my case when the temperature outside is lower than -12C my electicity is 5 times more expensive and I am using only the gas furnace.

Called Load control in the South...

Sabs, thank you for posting your data. I've recently installed the exact same HVAC system as yours (HP, air handler, 10 kwh electric aux heat strip and Infinity touch pad controller) to replace a 15 year old Carrier HP. Our's is a single zone whereas yours is two. I'm also in Massachusetts (metrowest) and have our temp and setback at 68 and 65 like you did at the time of your post. The energy use thus far has been much higher than I expected (2833 kwh in one month - about 45% from heat strips). I have electric heat lockout set in low teens (I keep trying lower balance points to see how low I can go before the HP can't keep up.) I realize my house probably has different heat loss characteristics (built mid 70's, single pane windows with storms). In our case we're only heating the main living area of 1500 square feet. Though our living, dining, kitchen and family room have vaulted ceilings with two sliding glass doors, which likely increases the load significantly. Since you've experienced same outside air temps as me this winter, I'm curious what your electric use has been thus far for comparison purposes. My electric heat strips seem to coming on a lot more than I anticipated. Perhaps my system is not working properly? The installer didn't install a staged heat strip. Could that be the culprit?

So much of your added cost is from the heatstrips and diminished heating capacity of a 3-ton vs. 4-ton. The heat output difference is as much as 13K BTU between the two. In your case, I think it would be cheaper to never deviate much from a setpoint temperature so the unit never struggles to keep up.

Just to give an idea, I have a 4-ton, 005 airhandler without any heatstrips in a 2100sqft house. In December, I used 489kwh set to COMFORT. In January, 946kwh set to COMFORT. So far in February, I've used 980kwh with the last few days set to EFF. This is impressive considering the historically cold polar vortex winter. Not to mention, my old 3-ton central AC, I would frequently use 1500kwh to cool my house in the 90-100 summer heat.

MBCan, I know this is an old thread but did Carrier ever find a solution to your noise problem? Thank you.