I don't think there is anything wrong with an outdoor dog at all. I am no dog expert, but some dogs are much happier outside. We have a stray (smaller one at that) that LOVES outside and would not be happy inside. She has roamed our neighborhood for the last couple of years or so. We do keep her in our garage at night. We bought a dog barn dog house she sleeps in. Surprisingly, she has never had an accident inside the garage. I let her out about 10pm and when we wake up around 7am and she goes right outside to potty. She did get sprayed by a skunk a couple of weeks ago, and I made her stay outside. I don't want my garage smelling like skunk or dog poop.

I wish I had the time to devote to an inside dog, but, we are on the go too much. I hear ya about a dog being left inside all day, that is why we don't have an inside dog.

First get a dog with fur that will be accustomed to your temperatures in the winter and summer.

We live in the country, and because the farmers here like to shoot "stray" dogs for fear of them chasing cattle, we have a dog fence in a large part of our backyard. She goes out the backdoor into "her" yard, which is huge and includes our bbq, patio, big trees, etc., so she never gets bored. If she does, she comes inside.

Most dogs do roam, and it's especially dangerous in the country if they do so, IF you have neighbors who don't know it's your dog.

About big dogs. I have an English Pointer, have had EP's for the past ten years, and I love them. They're sporting dogs, full of energy, but Grace is also an inside/outside dog.

People think EPs are too energetic to be housedogs, but how wrong they are! Since birth she's had a ton of toys to chew on, she gets excited when one of us comes home, and that's about it. I don't work, but when I go somewhere she stays inside and sleeps on the couch. Which I keep a sheet on at all times. lol She's extremely loyal and protective of us and is good around children. But you can't have an EP without a fence because they love to run.

She's a great watch dog too, will bark at anyone who comes to the door, but they have no idea she'd show them to the family jewelry. :)

If you will have cattle, I'd get one of the working cattle dogs.

German Shephards scare me to death! lol

How about a Border Collie? Our daughter has one, and this dog LOVES to be out of doors, running after balls, frizbees or sticks. Loves the water, too, so if you have any source of water on your farm the dog would love it. They are working dogs, and need plenty of outside activity to be happy. They are also highly intelligent, and very easy to train.

I'm really surprised about the Australian Cattle dog, I would have thought that would be a great breed for your situation.

Here is a link that might be useful: Border Collie

An Australian Cattle Dog sounds like a good fit to me too... You might also look at an Australian Shepherd -- really, really smart, affectionate, and a bit furrier, which might help in winter.

I, too, think an ACD would be a good choice. And do look at the Aussie Shepherds and maybe even a Border Collie. I think a lot of the rescue/adoption services have a default status of "must be an indoor dog." But they operate, I think, under the assumption that there are only two types of dog owners: those who coddle the pets inside and walk them all the time, and those who throw the pet in the tiny backyard and ignore it. Of course, most of us fall somewhere in between.

I have a bias for herding breeds (my two are mutts, but have some BC and ACD -- "blue heeler" down here in the South -- in them). They are incredibly smart and loyal, and very easy to train. You might even consider having your daughter do obedience training and then agility or flyball.

Growing up due to allergies, we adopted a blue heeler or ACD and he was an outside dog. We lived in Northern IL, my parents built a very insulated dog house and if the temperature got too cold or too hot, Aussie got to come inside.

He was a great guard dog and was fine being outside and alone while we went to school and work all day. He was a nice medium size which made it great to play with when we were younger.

I love the australian shepard. I think they're close to the ACD, but furrier :)
Beautiful, smart dogs.

Here's good little test to determine what breed fits you and your family. It can suggest some you may not have thought of.

Here is a link that might be useful: breed test

We have two Australian shepherds and they are wonderful dogs, but if you look up info on the breed, you'll find they need a job, but they also HAVE to be with their owners. In fact, being with their owner IS their job sometimes. Mine are literally within inches of me at all times except when they're outside in the yard. Check the Aussie rescue site and you'll find hundreds of Aussies whose owners couldn't deal with their attention needs. But being a working dog and being an outside dog are two different things. They would be very unhappy outside alone, as most dogs are. My dogs don't even like to go outside unless I come with them. In fact mine are sitting here looking at me right now because they want me to go out with them. And, I really don't mean to blast you because I think you're being very responsible asking these questions, but you just can't let a dog roam wild, no matter where you live or how many acres you have. It's not safe for the dog, who tend to become very possessive of what they perceive of their property and could bite intruders (mailman, delivery person, legitimate visitors) when not within your control. It also puts the dog at risk for disease, poisoning, attacks from other animals. I think your reasons for needing an outdoor dog (kids in school, etc) are reasons that a dog may not be a good choice for you at this point in your life.
Dee

Our dog is 1/2 Australian Cattle dog and 1/2 Chow -I know, odd combo but he's cute! No offense to Chow owners, but it's the Cattle dog personality and intelligence that makes our dog special - combining with Chow probably helps makes him cute but neither breed on its own is particularly good looking IMO. However, Cattle dogs are a wonderful breed and because he's so smart and well mamnnered he can go with us just about anywhere.

Wherever we go, anyone who has ever had a Cattle dog recognizes the ear set and body structure immediately and they always tell us that Cattle dogs are the best dog they've ever had. We live on an average sized, unfenced suburban lot. Within 2 weeks of showing him the property boundaries, he had it down. He does not leave our yard. People can walk by with dogs and he watches. Squirrels can run across the street and he stops at the curb, cats can taunt him and he chases to the edge of the yard and stops - he does not leave our yard or cross the street without us. Now, he's also not outside by himself all day but I can tell you if he had 97 acres to explore he'd be plenty entertained.

I don't think everyone has to have a pet that is essentially another child - we're not all wired that way. And there are plenty of well loved, well cared for working, outdoor dogs in this land. But I don't thnk it's right to take a dog that is used to a lot of human contact and living with a family and try to make it an outside dog. I don't know the history of that particular rescue but that could have been the case. If you want a Cattle dog, I'd contact breeders who specialize in outdoor dogs, tell them your situation and see what they suggest. Good luck.

I wouldn't suggest an intelligent, affectionate dog like the Australian Shepherd, Border Collie breeds, etc., if you'll be unable to spend time training him, along with playing or working him. I'm not sure what would work if you'll be leaving the dog on it's own, unfenced, with little time for inter-action with people or, if that will be the case, why a dog would be wanted. Yep, kids always beg for a dog, but you know whose dog it will be....the grown-ups, usually Mom. I wish littledog would see this. She's on a farm, I think, and has experience with outside dogs. I only know that most dogs are pack animals and need to be with their pack. Some breeds, such as the Chow, are known to be very independent. Without a fence you will want to train the dog to not leave your property. Will you have the time for this? Some dogs can be happy going solo if given a job and interaction with the family at points throughout the day.
Here's an idea: When a friend's daughter begged for a dog my friend said she'd be tested first with a Hamster to tend for one year. It didn't take long to see she was really too busy to take care of it, so no dog for now.
I do agree with deeinohio's thoughts on this.

Yes, dogs are very social. I hope you'd at least have one or more other dogs for companionship outdoors.

Wondering what type of work you're planning for the dog.

I agree with Dee also.
However, not all inside dogs are lap dogs. I have a beagle/Jack Russell who likes to spend most of the day outside. He will sit in his outside garage bed and look out on the world. Or lay in the driveway or run around a lot. Or lay in a sunshine patch in the winter.
But he also likes being inside when it rains and when it's cold and in the evenings when we sit around as a family.
He sleeps on the floor -in a cushy bed- next to my side of the bed. When it thunders, he sleeps in the bed with me.
He is a member of the family and his dog needs are every bit as important as any other family member.
I tend to think that unless you consider a dog a family member, then a dog is not for you.

On the flip side....millions of dogs get put down each year and it seems like you would provide a good life if not ideal so I think you should get a shelter dog.
Personally, I like dogs I can lift but are still sturdy.

DD just loves animals, *really* wants a dog, has to stop and visit with every dog she sees. But as you said, *I'm* the one who's going to be taking care of it. I may even go back to work next year (if the economy recovers) once DD is in school full time (this year is just AM Kindergarten). So I don't think we're an ideal family for a pet, but it's better than a shelter. I'm *around* for at least the next year, have time to train a dog, but I don't want to have to be the dog's companion all day while the kids are at school, and I don't want to have to keep the dog tied up/fenced in or indoors when I'm away at work. And I don't need another "kid" to take care of - we don't have the yard fenced for the kids, I don't let DD out alone but I do let her out (in the yard) with Ds, and when DS is a couple years older I'll have no problem letting him roam the woods by himself. *I* did when I was younger than he is now.

I have an African Gray parrot (older than my kids), I feel badly that I don't spend as much time as I used to with her before we had kids, but when we got her I was working (well, when she was little I was just finishing my Masters so I was home during the day). Talk about being a social animal! So I'm not looking forward to having another "needy" animal (though she's not needy, she sees plenty of us in passing since she lives in the mudroom/laundry room - she just doesn't get handled much). My parents tried to adopt a husky when I was in HS - but his first family had kept him as an inside dog, he *thought* he was a lap dog, and he cried all night long when we put him in the basement. Their beagles did much better being "outside" dogs. They had a German once that they kept in a run (used to be a guard dog so they didn't trust her around little kids), I felt so sorry for her and swore I'd never do that to a dog.

We don't actually need a "working" dog, I just figured any of the working breeds would be happy being an outside dog. From past experience, it sure would be handy to have someone faster than me to help round up the cows when they get loose too LOL!

So, should we get one (I'm telling DD next spring/summer) or should I keep putting her off? DH is a bit miffed that I wouldn't get DS a dog when he was her age and wanted one, but I had a newborn and we lived on 3 acres then, also I was on mat. leave and planning to go back to work (whereas now I would *like* to, but have no plans or prospects), so I knew it was not a good situation. I think it's better now, but still not sure it's the best thing. Though I don't think any of our neighbors would shoot at a dog!

It sounds like your DD LOVES dogs, but wouldn't necessarily LOVE an outside dog. She wants someone to cuddle and play with on a limited basis. A large "outside" dog isn't going to really meet her needs. If he's really people oriented, he'll be very sad by himself most of the time. Dogs need a pack, human or dog pack. You may consider 2 dogs, but then they would be even less likely to meet your DD's needs for pets. I have two dogs and they just tend to follow me around all day. They don't require tons of attention, but they get it throughout the day.

Maybe a small inside dog would be preferable for your DD. It doesn't really sound like you need a farm dog or working dog. I'd either get her the pet she wants (and be prepared for it to hand out with you during the day) or not get a dog at all.

If we're going to get an inside mammal, it might as well be a cat (though that could be a problem with the parrot). Less clingy and hopefully less mess. I had a cat as a kid - supposed to be outside/basement cat but I'd sneak her into my bed every once in a while.

I'm not going to get a 70 lb dog to hang around the house and "watch TV with your kids" as the shelter lady suggested. I want my kids *outside* playing with the dog, not inside watching TV (with or without a pet)!

Maybe after we build the barn we'll just get DD a pony LOL! She may even be satisfied with cows....

DH grew up on a farm in TX, their dogs were always outside, but then again so was his dad and whatever kids were home at the time. My parents had a dog when I was born - I *think* she was an outside dog (though they used to take her to DQ to buy her a cone), I don't remember her much. The shepherd was the only dog I remember as a kid, the beagles (and eventually a rescued Lhasa that *was* an inside dog, and my mom swears never again - ruined the HW floor in the DR) came after I left for college.

Honestly, getting a dog is not a good idea for you, IMO.

while I don't intend to let the dog roam, and we can't afford to do "invisible" fence over a large area, I thought that once the dog "learned the ropes" going out walking the property with us, learned where the house was (where he/she would be fed), and learned to come when I called, that we could let him/her run loose for part of the day. Isn't that what large dogs (and their ancestors) like to do?

I work in dog rescue and what you have described is a situation where the dog ends up on the side of the road dead (or worse) or in the county pound where we hope to rescue the dog before he is euthanized. A dog is basically a 4 year old child in a heavy fur coat with a great sense of smell who can run fast. If you don't want the dog to roam, then you have to contain the dog. And leaving a dog outside isn't the answer either.

What do people who work do with their dogs all day? Doggy day care? Yes, I'm home (for now) unless I'm running errands, but the kids have school and DH works so they're not going to be much company.

I didn't have a dog until I was in my 50s and retired. It didn't seem fair to a dog to leave him home alone all day.

Sit down with your daughter and ask her to count up the number of hours per week she has to spend with the dog. Ask her if it is fair to the dog to be on stand-by 24x7 so that she can play with the dog for those hours. You already have one pet who is neglected (compared to the interaction a parrot needs and would get in the wild). Don't get another one.

You should not get a dog of any breed.

Please re-read what you typed - "They had a German once that they kept in a run (used to be a guard dog so they didn't trust her around little kids), I felt so sorry for her and swore I'd never do that to a dog."

Please follow your feelings if you cannot commit to giving a dog a real life with people, training, care, love, attention. Owning a dog is a privilege and dog ownership is not for everyone.

What,are you saying we should keep the dog penned up????

Sorry - I just read the last part of what you wrote. I don't get it - I *said* that I had time to train it.

Are you getting the idea that I'm going to let the dog roam wild and basically ignore it unless DD wants to play? Or put it in "solitary confinement" in the basement? It's not like I'm going to ignore it while I'm home. I can give it care and attention. DD will love it no matter what I'm sure, the rest of us will have to see. I don't think that everyone in the house has to love a pet - DH and DS certainly don't love my bird, and we're all OK with that.

I want to have a dog my kids can play with, give it plenty of room to romp, not have it penned up in a concrete run. *I* don't spend my entire day indoors (except whenever I can get away with it in the dead of winter), would like to take walks in the woods with the dog alone or with the kids, and if the dog is happy to be with me or wander (but come back when called) while I build stone walls, plant, weed, rake, whatever, that's fine too. I don't think it should be around wherever I'm finishing wood, but other than that it can spend the entire day with me (at least the time that I'm home, and not cleaning house, doing laundry, finishing woodwork or doing interior repairs/finishing). After we build a barn and get cows I'll be outside more often taking care of them. It's not like I'm just going to let the dog out of the basement in the morning and call it back for dinner (or worse yet, keep it in the basement all day without company - my kids play down there in the winter). I just don't want it sitting in the house all day (watching TV LOL?), or being penned up, while I'm busy.

Sorry, but those of you who have "outdoor" dogs - do you spend every minute day and night with them?

I think the outdoor life is great for a dog, and people. But why can't the dog come in at night, to always be a part of the family? It's cold and lonely out there! He'll want to be with all of you, maybe by the fire. He'd at least need a bud out there.

We don't have a fireplace, we all go to bed in separate rooms (except DH and I), I don't think it will hurt for the dog to be alone at night if he's around me and DD during the day. I'm sorry, I really don't want any non-human mammals in the living spaces of the house, esp. not *large* mammals. I'm not even that crazy about cats. There's dirt, germs, hair and possibly destructive behavior to worry about. I get enough of that from DD (but at least she takes off her shoes and washes her hands when she comes in LOL). Maybe I'm a germaphobe, but the thought of an animal walking around outside (or digging) and then walking into my house (esp since kitchen is right off of mudroom and foyer - have to go through it to get to FR) makes my skin crawl. I ask visitors to take off their shoes, and if they won't (like some contractors who says it's against OSHA regulations), I either put down paper/cardboard before they come or mop after they leave. I have to vacuum under DD's chair at least 2x/day, I don't want to have to mop the tile and steam-clean the carpet every day. And I definitely don't want the dog sleeping with DD. I always make her wash her hands after petting neighbors' dogs - though I always make her wash her hands when she comes in the house anyway, like after she gets home from school (and the last thing before the bus is recess). I know, I slept with my cat - who hunted mice and birds. Yech!

If we have to get 2 dogs to have a "pack" then we'll have to wait til we build a barn. Though someone said that they won't be good with kids if they have a canine pack. So maybe you're right, we shouldn't get a dog. DD can have a horse - they're fine with cows, they don't need other horses or humans around 24/7.

ajsmamma, get an outside dog! It is really not as big a deal as people are making it out to be. Our dog is totally happy outside. She hunts, runs, poops wherever she wants, hides bones, and plays with us when we are outdoors, which is quite a bit. I am quite the germaphobe like you, and really don't want dogs indoors either. I think people are having a hard time picturing what it is like having land and animals outside. Our dog does roam our 3 acres and really doesn't go beyond a couple of our neighbors houses (each on 3 acres). They like her and even feed her. She'll come home with a steak in her mouth at times. Me and my DH say all the time, what a great life she has, not being stuck indoors.

Like I said before, we do keep her in the garage at night. But, if she started to pee and poop in there, she would be back outside at night. I think because she was a stray for a couple of years before we took her, she only will go potty outside now. Really, look for a stray! She has been the best dog!

I think it would be a good idea to get a stray or dog that's already accustomed to the hardships of outdoor life, also. Rather than a rescue or pound animal that knows the soft, warm life already. I think farm cats/dogs can have a real nice life if they've got their own warm place in the barn. There are usually lots of people around during the day, and other animals. It's very natural for them, unless conditioned to home life already, where they'll want to be with the rest of the family indoors : ) I don't remember what part of the country you're in, but the cold is tough.

graywings - I just read what you wrote, I think you're right but I don't know if I can convince DD (and DH). I don't think of dogs as needing as much interaction as parrots do, but I *have* thought of finding a better home for my first baby, since I don't spend the time with her that she needs (a quick scratch when I'm feeding her, and conversations while I'm doing laundry or in the kitchen aren't enough). The only thing that has stopped me is that she has really imprinted on me (and will allow DH and DD to pet her, which is unusual). I don't know if she'd actually be lonelier in another household, if she'd miss us. I raised her from a chick, she didn't even have feathers when I got her, and she's 15 now.

*I* don't want or need a dog, I'd be getting one just for DD. DH isn't around much (it could hang around him on weekends when he's working outside), DS might or might not want to have anything to do with it. He says he wants to be a vet, but he doesn't go up to every dog he sees like DD does, and seems afraid of the larger ones. Like I said, I'm around and I don't dislike dogs. I thought a dog could just "hang out" with me while I did my thing, or go off and explore if it was bored. But if they really do need the social interaction that parrots do, we don't have the time.

Though it isn't really appropriate to equate today's dogs with their ancestors because of centuries of domestication, in addition to being pack animals, dogs are den animals. They are companion animals, not livestock.

An outdoor dog might not misbehave, but living outside and sleeping in a secluded place away from the family isn't the best situation for him. Is the care given adequate? Sure, if basic needs are met. But that sort of life isn't really fair. What's more, if you aren't supervising your dog, you might miss some health problems in their early stages, which can possibly lead to more discomfort for the dog and more costly vet bills for you.

Most dogs enjoy jobs because performing pleases their owners. An outdoor dog will roam and explore (and bark, dig, chew, etc.) to keep itself entertained if separated from the family. In the end, you're responsible for that little life it's leading.

People who can't "trust" their dog in the house aren't using proper training and supervision techniques early on. Intelligent dogs are quick to learn what they are allowed to do (sit on a particular chair) and what they are no allowed to do (get on that chair without permission, for example).

Having a pet is fun, but I think it's important to think of yourself as a steward, someone responsible for the life of an innocent, intelligent creature. It's extremely rewarding to be in that position.

And because I have never seen a dog thread on here without pictures...

My dog isn't babied, though he does enjoy staying at finer hotels (many of the boutiques are pet friendly)...

He loves being outdoors...but we spend time outside as a "pack"

Though I haven't actually known any parrots, I'd still say, yes, domestic dogs and cats need at least the amount of attention a parrot needs. Animals are generally very social and need company and interaction. They're like having kids.

I come from a long line of cattle ranchers and one uncle has always had Blue Heelers. But, they were really working dogs. He only had one at a time, but, they followed him everywhere, while he was on his horses, tractors, etc. I wonder if Blue Heelers are good with children though? They were never indoor dogs and my uncle was very attached to them.

Our dog sits on one of our patio chairs on our porch (on a towel I put on the chair, because remember, I am a germaphobe-LOL!) and when she sees us pulling into our driveway she runs up to greet us! My DS loves playing with her and she is always right by his side wherever he is playing outside. She really doesn't go to the road or chase cars.

I would definately get a dog that wasn't scary looking. I like German Shepherds, but, some people think they are scary. I would get one that hasn't ever stayed indoors. I would get a short-haired one, easier to keep clean outdoors. You may even look on Craigslist, people post dogs that are strays hoping the owner will find them, when they really just don't want the dog.

I'm sorry, I can't get past having a dog in my house - just can't do it. And since I'm the only one around during the day, that's it for the pack. I can't be off playing/exploring with the dog all day, so either he stays around me, goes off (and comes back) on his own, or will have to be confined or staked, which I hate to do when I'm home b/c that's what we'll have to do at night.

But graywings really got me when she described a dog as a 4 yr old, and mentioned the road. I wouldn't leave a 4 yr old outside by him/herself, and we live 1/2 mile (as the crow flies) from a state highway, so if the dog can't stay within the boundaries we show him without being fenced (which we can't afford to do - barbed wire works for cows but anything else is too $$), then we just can't have a dog.

Thanks everyone for your advice. I hope you don't think I'm a dog-hater. I'm just not a "dog person".

jeanniepc - love your golden pics!

asajama - I mean no disrespect, but do you have any idea how much time is needed to properly train a puppy? Possibly a year depending on your breed, how well you do it, the dog's personality, how much time you dedicate to it.

To those who think this is just no big deal, well I strongly disagree.

When our DD was young she loved our labs but had no time or inclination to do the work it takes to make a pup into a housetrained companion. It doesn't happen without your constant attention - at least for the period of time you need to train the dog. Puppies jump, nip at your hands, tear at things, normal puppy behavior, but behavior that needs correction by a pack leader - YOU.

It saddens me that you admittedly are having serious hesitations, and yet you are not listening to the voice inside of your own head.

Did you see or read Marley and Me? That's what my life has been like with regard to the dog thing. I tell you that so you understand why I feel so passionately about this issue. A love affair between a dog and his master(s). While all dogs don't act like Marley, that is not really where I am going with it. In that movie Jennifer Anniston tells Owen Wilson to "take that dog to that farm" at one point. He takes the dog to a friend, goes home and Anniston admits that Marley's home is with them. He was a part of their family. A love affair even with a dog who is holy terror as my first lab was. I related so well as my life is/was quite parallel and I've read Grogan as I live in the area. If you haven't seen the movie, please rent it or watch it TV - HBO featuring and is being played all the time at the moment in our area. It sums up what having a dog means - from the first day you meet/bring your pup home until the day when you have lie with your pet while he/she goes home. Until you have done something like that you have really no idea what it means to love a pet.

There is a poster on this forum - not frequently, but over the years she has become a vet. I am interested what her take on your ideas might be. I think her name is meganne or something similar. I've seen her post here, but also on the pets forum. Have you posted on the pets forum?

I don't think from what I've read in your posts that dog ownership with all of the work that goes with raising a puppy would be a great fit for your lifestyle, likes and dislikes with regard to germs. Well, dogs do get dirty and leave hair that needs to be vacuumed. I could vacuum twice a day and sometimes do.

Lastly, your DD is learning from you and how you handle things. If you handle things well, she will learn how to properly treat an animal. You need to show her that having a pet is a privilege and that with that privilege comes responsibility.

No, no, you aren't a dog hater. Your situation just wouldn't be fair to a dog.

By the way, dogs can handle being alone during the work day if the other times of the day involve pack time. :)

Perhaps I'm going to ruffle some feathers, but someone mentioned a stray being "happier" outside all the time. The dog seems happy because the dog doesn't know any better life. Don't kid yourself, though. His life would be much better if his inherent needs to have a leader and be part of a family pack were met. Even dogs with troubled pasts have overcome them when put in a healthier situation.

I agree that it sounds like you're only getting a dog because your daughter wants one. They are a lot of work, and the dog we have I got because my sons wanted one, but I picked out the breed because I knew that this wasn't going to be their dog, it was going to be my dog! I am the one who takes the dog to the vet, puppy classes, dog training, feeds it most of the time and generally the one it follows around all day.

My kids play with the dog and love it, but that dog knows who takes care of him and guess who he follows around all the time? Me. This is my dog, and I love him to death.

When I was a kid, we had a hunting dog that was a beagle and he lived outside tied up. He had a shed/dog house but he never could be allowed to roam because he'd run away. We had a german shepherd that we would tie up to his dog house when we went to school and we'd let him off when we came home. He slept in the house but was outside during the day.

It's a generational thing, but people don't tie their dogs up outside anymore - at least where I live. I guess its the humanization of the human race, we don't spank our kids and don't tie up our dogs anymore.

Anyways, if you decide to get a dog, you need to accept that it will be your dog because your daughter isn't old enough to take care of a dog properly. She can help, but when it's cold or snowy or rainy outside, she's not going to want to play with the dog, so what is the dog going to do? Sit outside in the rain, snow cold by itself?

Also, weren't you telling us about wild critters that are outside your home - bears? Seems like a dog living outside with no place to go for protection would be easy prey. I have a friend who watched her Jack Russell being dragged off her property by a pack of coyotes - it was a very traumatic thing for her kids to watch!

I would wait until you have a barn and cows before getting an outdoor dog. A dog need a place to go where it's safe, warm and dry. Plus, you'll be outside much more and will be a companion for the dog. If you keep the dog outside all the time, you're not going to want it in your house, even the basement because it will be dirty and smelly. So I know you say you'll let it sleep in the basement, but you won't. So, wait for the barn and cows.

1. We're not getting a puppy. I don't have the time or the patience to train a puppy.

2. I've never had dogs in the house, DH has never had dogs in the house,just not something we can do now. Hair on the furniture is not an issue, we can train the dog not to jump on the furniture, but dog hair and germs (I mentioned feet, but dog butts are issue too) on the floors where my kids play, and we walk in bare/stocking feet, gross me out. Vacuuming is not an issue (I have to vacuum crumbs from under DD's chair constantly, and carpet fuzz, dust bunnies, and DD hair - I shed too). Disinfecting the floors is.

3. Rain - not a problem, dogs can get wet. There's going to be a doghouse (unless we already have a barn). Cold and snow - nice warm basement.

4. We do have wild animals, I figured a bear probably wouldn't bother a large barking dog, of course we'd have a dog house. We also have a couple of bobcats that I've seen during the day a few times, again figured that wouldn't be a problem with a large dog tied up - the dog's presence would tend to keep the bobcat(s) out of the yard. I've already warned the neighbor about her rabbits, small dog, and kitten. But (I wasn't going to mention this, since I had already decided we shouldn't get a dog), as I was typing that last post at 6:30 this AM I saw a coyote walk in front of the sliding glass door. I don't know if they're more solitary than wolves, but I figure if there's one, there are more. And a dog *would* tangle with a coyote. So no dogs for us. Now I don't even know about cows - have to discuss that with DH, b/c we've been planning on having a few since we've owned the land (9 years). Thanks.

In regards to jeannine post about hotels being pet friendly now: We made the mistake of staying in a hotel this summer that was pet friendly-never again! I will ALWAYS ask that question first before booking a reservation. The room smelled like dogs and my parents were in the next room and mom could barely stand it. No where else to go in town, so we were stuck. I'm sure the people before us being in the room had a dog sitting on our bed just like yours.

Sorry, dogs may be part of a family, but they are still dogs.

I know it sounds like I don't like dogs, but I do. I just don't like living with them either.

ajmamma mentioned the dog butts! That is exactly the number one thing I cannot get past in having an indoor dog. The thought of dog butts on my furniture grosses me out big time. I wondered if I was the only one that thought that way.

My dogs do not sit on the furniture ever. They have multiple dogbeds in nearly every room and when I do have them in bed with me, I cover the bed with old sheets and they sleep on those, well mostly. If I get up at all, one will move to my pillow. I wash the sheets the next day.
Our floors aren't that clean, however. I figure dog butts aren't dirtier than our shoes.

So I'm wondering - if your daughter will be outside playing with the dog - do you plan to hose her off with
disinfectant to get all the 'dirt, germs and hair' off her before she's allowed to come into the house??

Rilie: That was really mean spirited and unnecessary. It takes all kinds to make the word go round.

true, bumblebeez, I guess when you put it that way...

Maybe I was a bit abrupt, Geogirl, but I canÂt help but wonder why in the world someone who canÂt even stomach the thought of dirty paws on her laundry room floor would even consider getting a dog?? How many times is her daughter going to come in with dirty hands and knees from romping with the dog until the OP decides there is too much dirt, hair and germs being transferred into the house? So many dogs are already in shelters because they turn out to be too big, too hairy, too energetic, too hard to train, more than the owners bargained for?? IMO the OP is kidding herself if she thinks a dog would fit into her lifestyle.

Rilie: I understand your point. It isn't what you said, it was how you said it. I just think a little more kindness is appropriate on a public board, especially when people come here to gather info so they can make a good decision. She has already decided not to get a dog.

bumblebeez - that's why we take off our shoes at the door.

Thanks guys for defending me. Rilie - I wouldn't hose DD off with disinfectant, she already washes her hands when she comes home (as we all do). If she's dirty (I mean really dirty), she takes off her clothes when she takes off her shoes. DH gets so filthy sometimes he takes off his clothes in the garage and puts them in a hamper out there - I'm washing his clothes right now, one pair of jeans was so caked with mud that I had to rinse them off in the utility sink before putting them in the washer (on double rinse). I've even mentioned thinking of getting another W/D hookup in the basement and moving the old pair down there so we can wash the "farm" clothes in separate machine than the "school" and "office" clothes. I don't like finding bits of hay in my bath towels. Of course DH doesn't like finding DD's hair on his clothes or my hair in his food either.

I don't get *quite* as filthy as DH, but there are plenty of times that I strip down in the mudroom and run upstairs in my skivvies to take a shower (shoulda had a shower put in the mudroom - have to see if we can put one in basement as originally planned). We also have to check each other for ticks. Sorry if TMI, but that's just a fact of living on acreage.

So I wouldn't be able to get a dog until we got a dog bath LOL if it got as dirty as DH! But with the coyote(s), I don't think a dog is a good idea anyway.

Now, back to folding whites (washed in bleach and hot water to kill germs LOL)!

I would love to be a shoe free house but dh won't comply, Dad needs to wear shoes all the time, and I wouldn't ask friends to remove their shoes. I'm not trying to start up a controversial subject but that is one element of the Japanese culture I wish Americans would adopt.

Speaking of dogs and coyotes...

Here is a link that might be useful: Dog?

Parma, I laughed out loud at that! I would have a breakdown if I saw that IRL! And, Ajsmama, I just wanted to say I really respect you. You asked a question, graciously accepted feedback, thoughfully considered all angles, and make the right decision for your family. Your analytical skills serve you well. (You're an engineer, right?)
Dee

Dee, that cracked me up, and what a coincidence. DH sent it to me just after I had been reading this thread.