I'm 5'1" and can reach down into my Oasis just fine...then again I'm not 87 years old;-)

Does she need the largest capacity washer? Maybe a smaller, easier to use model might be a better choice.

Well it's good to know that her height may not be that much of a concern if she has to reach into the bottom of the Bravos washer. Thanks cantdecide! :o)

As for her age, she 's actually incredibly active and pretty flexible for an 87 year old woman. Otherwise, my other family members would be doing the laundry for her, which she currently does not allow! So the Bravos may be a good choice for her after all.

However, we (me and my family) are considering other models that may be a tad easier on her, such as the Bosch Nexxt, Whirlpool Duet & Duet sport, Maytag Epic, etc. For a FL on a pedestal would be a bit easier to get clothes out of. And I kinda would like to get her a washer with a built-in heater as well, for my Danby washer that I previously owned ( I REALLY miss that machine, long story on why I was forced to give it up) blows my current Maytag 2400 out of the water in terms of washing performance because of that built-in heater it had. So wblynch, you do have a very good point, thanks for the input! :o)

But since she seemed interested in the Oasis/Cabrio/Bravos and has always had TL's, her height may not be as big of an issue as I thought, and a lot of people seem to like these machines, we may just get her the Bravos. My uncle is hopefully taking her to Sears and Home Depot this weekend to look for other items in those stores and will casually walk through the appliance section and nonchalantly be fascinated with the HE washers that are on display in order not to spoil the surprise.

Hopefully the Bravos will be displayed at one of these stores. If not, she can look at the Oasis or Cabrio which would be just as good I guess. I was just wondering if the Bravos might be the most inexpensive of the three models as the Epic seems to be the least expensive of the HE8t/Duet/Epic FLs.

Also, does anyone have info on the Bravos dryer? Does it have one motor or two? And does the # of motors really make a huge difference in drying performance or improve the dryer's performance in any other ways? Thanks again for the helpful info!

Kevin

We have seen it at Homedepot here in Mobile Alabama..Linda

I don't think the sports would be a good choice for her. I have the duet sport 8500, the drum sits pretty low to the ground. I don't have it on a pedestal so I'm not sure how much it would raise the drum. But I still think it would be hard for her to get the clothes in and out.

I have seen the Bravos at Home Depot as well. It is the same model as the Whirlpool Cabrio as Whirlpool bought Maytag, so they are now one in the same. The models look identical to me, except for the knob selector for wash cycles and dry cycles. IF you want to get some real info on it, and not from a major retailer, go to or call an independent Maytag dealer and ask for the dependabiity rating for the unit you are interested in. If they do not have that info yet, ask where the model comes from. If it comes from Newton, Iowa, then it is going to be a good product. Maytag has three major distribution plants in the US, and Newton is by far the most reliable of the three. Just go the the Maytag website, click on store locator, choose independent retailers, put in your zip and it will give you addresses and phone numbers within a 50 mile radius. It seems the Bravos is comparable in price, and with the absence of an agitator, it can hold alot of clothes. My family is looking at this product as well. Hopes this helps!

Robby, Fort Worth, Texas

Hello all,

Frankie57, Linda, Robby, thanks so much for the input!

Well, I spoke to my family and my uncle took my grandmother to see the Bravos at Home Depot, and she really liked it! Plus, she didn't have any trouble reaching down into the tub. Yay!

She also went to Sears and checked out an Oasis with an agitator and surprisingly, liked the Bravos at Home Depot that did not have an agitator. She also sparked an interest in the Maytag Epic and the Whirlpool Duet. At some point someone will take her to Lowe's and she will also check out the Bosch Nexxt, and then we will see which machine she likes the best and we will all go in on her washer/dryer desicion, hopefully before she suspects anything!! ;o)

I myself went to the Maytag Store and checked out the Bravos and I must say.......it is a very cool looking machine! And you are correct, Robby, it is pretty much identical to the Cabrio (which is also a cool looking machine) except for some minor trim details.

The tub seems as if it floats on air, so I would be safe to guess that with proper leveling and weight distribution, this machine should have very little vibration problems. And as I reached towards the bottom of the tub, it didn't seem to me much of an extra stretch as it would be in any TL machine, and I guess my grandma felt the same way. Heck, I may just buy this machine for myself when I start shopping for a townhome, but that's after I finish school.

The only thing that concerns me slightly, despite the fact that most people here seem to like the cleaning performance of these machines, is that it does not have a internal water heater, which is why I'd be torn between this and the Whirlpool Duet/Bosch Nexxt. I believe someone on this forum had/has experience with both Bosch Nexxt and Whirlpool Cabrio. I'm sorry I can't remember who it was. Would you be so kind as to inform me on whether or not the Nexxt did actually clean better because of it's heater (or possibly even not) than the Cabrio that is without a heater. Just curious. Thanks in advance and thanks everyone for all the information. This forum is such a great resource!! :o)

Kevin

Why does she need the extra capacity? Are you making her do all the laundry for your family too?-)

As big a supporter as I am of heated FLs, I would get her a standard-cap TL, maybe a Fisher-Paykel, unless she really wants a FL for some reason. (We wanted to get my mother-in-law, roughly your grandmother's age, a Danby, but (a) that was for her vacation home, and (b) she was quite comfortable with FLs already. Unfortunately, they were off the market by then.) - DR

Are you making her do all the laundry for your family too?-)

-well I can't really make her do anything, especially since I live across the country from her. After all she is 87 and that would be kinda wrong IMO to make her do my family's laundry. But I am thankful that she is as active as she is at her age. When I lived in New York and would visit her house, I used to want to do everything for her, but she would yell at me and tell me to get out of the kitchen and stop washing her dishes or would tell me to get out of the hamper and that she can do her own laundry!

Anyway, back to her washer, I will tell her to check out the Fisher-Paykel machines, I forgot about those machines. Thanks for reminding me! :o) Although I forgot to mention she wanted a machine that can wash pillows. I assume the FP machine would be out for that reason, but I could be wrong. Speaking of which, have any Oasis/Cabrio/Bravos owners washed pillows in them? How effective is the bulky cycle?

I personally think that the ideal machine for her would be the Bosch Nexxt. At her height, the controls seem to be in the perfect place and the door seems to have the biggest opening of any FL I've seen, but I could be wrong about this as well. Just going by what I've observed when briefly looking at them when in Lowe's.

Oh....she did say that she is comfortable w/FL's. She owned a Bendix FL years and years ago and raves about it to this day!! But I am guessing that todays FL's are very different from the Bendix that she owned 50-60 years ago.

Anyhoo, so far she is really likin' the Bravos. It' also seems to be the least expensive choice so far (if it is purchased at Home Depot) I'll keep you all posted on what we finally do buy her.

Kevin

Bendix was a cool machine for its time.

F&P owners should confirm, but I'm pretty sure they can do pillows. I think the dryer even has a special 'pillow' setting.

The Nexxt is pretty easy to use, but any FL requires some extra care - for example, wiping down the gaskets and leaving the doors cracked open - and people who move to modern FLs tend to do things at first like use way too much detergent. In other words, there is some learning to be done. If she likes the Nexxt and is ready to shift her paradigms a bit, then go for it! - DR

Sorry this is so long.

I am 5'1" and own a Cabrio HE and have no problem reaching to the bottom of the machine, in fact, it is easier to get stuff out of than my old TLer. I owned a Bosch Fler briefly and had vibration problems. Make sure you consider the learning curve. At 87, I'm sure I would not want to waste a ton of time learning how to use a new type of washer. It sounds like she leads a full and happy life. With the new FLers she would need to wipe down the gasket, leave the door open, do periodic cleaning cycles to prevent mildew problems, and spend quite a few loads figuring out how much detergent and additives work with her combination of the FLer and her water.

I got the FLer because of my height, it was really hard for me to reach socks and other small items in my old TLer; the FLer was easier, except taking large items out was difficult. Because I am short, blankets would drag on the ground as I removed them, mine was on the pedestal.

I have washed everything but pillows in my Cabrio and it handled everything well. I even washed a very large, heavy comforter which it handled with ease. The comforter dried in half the time it usually did.

I did wash pillows in the FLer, it had a very hard time. In my old machine I had never realized that the covering of the one pillow was much denser than the others. The load took forever, and was very loud. Eventually, After I rebalanced the load several times it finished. In the end it did a fine job, but wet pillows are very heavy, and they are easier to slide around the bottom of a TLer than to move off of each other in a FLer.

All that said, I am actually thinking about washing some pilows today in my Cabrio, if I do, I will let you know how it works.

Just a note, while the Cabrio (and others like it) are HE machines and use HE detergent I had no trouble adjusting the amount of detergent. I use 1/2 TBSP on small loads and 1 TBSP on large or really dirty loads. Note that this is a Concentrated All Small and Mighty HE. I use the usual amount of fabric softener. This machine is really easy to use, very similar to a basic TLer, and the cycles for towels, large items, perm press, dark clothes, wool, delicates, etc. makes laundry quite simple. Oh yes, the cycles are generally about the same length as my old top loader. The whitest whites cycle is very long, and the quick wash is not much quicker than normal or perm press, and longer than delicates and wool. Hope your grandmother loves her new machine, whichever she decides she likes.

I forget to mention towels. When I had the FLer, I was concerned about threads I had seen about towels not being soft when washed in the FLers. I did not have a problem with that, my towels came out just the same in the FLer as my old TLer. But, in the Cabrio, the towels come out much softer and fluffier than they have ever been. In fact, since I generally buy very inexpensive towels, I never thought they could get this fluffy! And some items come out of this machine less wrinkled than with the FLer (dress shirts, dresses, non-denim skirts), but really heavy cotton pants (men's heavy weight cotton cargo pants) do come out more wrinkled. As long as I shake them out before putting them in the dryer they come out fine. I should mention I only replaced the washer, my old Kenmore dryer works fine still so I saw no need to replace it. I don't think dryer technology has improved so much that I had to replce it too.

Ok, I washed pillows yesterday along with several other loads. Some day I might actually get the right pillows together in a load. I mixed two pillows that should not have been washed together, one old one with a thin cotton cover, and one newer one with a very dense cotton cover. Needless to say, there was an unbalance issue. It was on the final spin and could not balance the pillows. It started to do the unbalance "thing" it does, I waited five minutes then just canceled the cycle. I layed the two pillows crosswise over the wash plate, set it for drain and spin with a low spin speed, and 7 minutes later I had two pillows that were amazingly dry. Next time I will remember to make sure I put in two matching pillows. All in all, I thought it worked really well. I only noticed the unbalance because I went to get paper towels out of the laundry room. There was no noise or vibrations or shaking (my old TLer would bouce off the wall when it was not balanced properly with this type of load), I'm not sure what happens if it can't balance on it's own since I stopped it. I just figured since I saw it I might as well fix it, patience is not one of my strong points. It puts uL on the display so you know it is trying to rebalance the load.
Good luck with your shopping.

Hi there,
I just bought a new home where the laundry is located on the second floor.I really liked the maytag bravos model I saw at my local home depot store.I agree that it looks exactly like the whirlpool cabrio and that it becuase the matag is made at a whirlpool plant as they have merged together.
My question is does anyone have a cabrio or maytag that they have on the second level.I am really concerned about the vibrations.I am expecting a baby in a months time and the baby nursery is not too far from the laundry.I have tile in the laundry floor.I asked the building contarctor and he told me that I probably would not have any vibration problems even with a top of the line front loader.However I want to play it safe and buy a TL.I just want your reviews/experience with a cabrio/matag on the second level.I have to make my choice in 2 days as I move in on the 31st or else I will be without a washing machine.
thanks
payal

Jcrowley, thanks so much for your responses!! :o)

I was actually thinking that a machine like the Bravos/Cabrio/Oasis would be even more of an adjustment from a conventional TLer than a FLer. I'm glad to see that it is not as much of a far cry, (it terms of using the machine) from a conventional TLer. My grandmother liked hearing that!

And good to know about the unbalance issue w/ the pillows, but at least they came out clean. Do you think that it is possible to fit 3 pillows in the machine at once, or should 2 be the max?

I did run by my grandmother all the adjustments she'd have to make in doing her laundry with a FLer and she was pretty much ok with everything except for wiping down the door gasket. She said she never had to "do anything like that" for any machine she's owned, even when she had the Bendix. But I explained that todays HE FL's are quite different machines from anything she's ever owned. She wasn't happy with that aspect, but she will still check out the Bosch Nexxt this weekend.

Payal, I can't fairly say how the Bravos would do on a 2nd floor laundry since I do not own one and even if my grandmother does like this machine the best and we decide to purchase it for her, it would be installed in her basement on concrete floors.

However, I believe I have heard owners of these machines that have 2nd floor laundy rooms/closets say that they do very well in terms of minimal vibration. Sorry I can't be of any further help. Perhaps owners of these machines that have 2nd flr. laundries can chime in.

Anyhoo, we should probably know by this weekend which machine she likes the best and will then purchase it. Thanks again for the invaluable input!! :o)

Kevin

Well, I live in Germany where FLs are the absolute norm and I never ever wiped down any door gasket on any washer we had.

Our washer is in the basement where it's pretty cool so the gasket never completely dries - there's always a small pool of water in the bottom area. Never had any problems with mold, stains or anything of that kind.

However, I do let the machine dry out, which means leaving the door ajar and the detergent drawer extended. On the Bosch Nexxt this is especially easy, since there is no detergent drawer to extend (I'll admit - that doesn't look too *cool* ;) ) but just a little flap that you should leave open.

The only cleaning maintenance I do is clean the drawer and its housing once in a while. The inside of the washer (tub) is cleaned by hot (heated) washing cycles and sufficient use of detergent.

Just my two cents regarding "wiping down the gasket".

Here are some vids another poster made of his Oasis. "Towels" is the newest video series. "Whites" is also pretty interesting.

Alex

Here is a link that might be useful: jonv112 - playlists

Alex, most European machines have the internal water heater, and all run on 220 volts. Not that many American FLs have internal water heaters, and the ones that do run on half the voltage (110) and are never able to get anywhere near as hot as your versions of the machines do for you. In addition, most Americans have been brainwashed by their government to use cold water (saves energy!) for everything they wash. This has led to biofilm build up on even some top loaders. It proved to be a recipe for big problems with the "American style" front loaders, and thus protocols were developed to ensure that mold, mildew, and biofilm formation is minimized. Wiping the door gasket isn't onerous, and is equivalent to wiping the rim of the TL after a load because there might be lint or laundry powder residue present. It's a 30 second job, and should become second nature to anyone who owns a FL. And, if the homeowner does enough hot washes, you really don't have to worry about those "cleaning cycle" recommendations either.

TO the OP, a price reduction is in the works for the first of APril/mid April on these machines if you can wait that long. I think there will also be a Maytag rebate in effect as well.

I'm aware of the differences between FLs sold in the USA compared to the ones sold over here in EU. I'm also aware of that Energy Star non-sense about forcing consumers to use cool temperatures because Automatic Temperature Control on modern TLs will (depending on the model) only allow really hot water under certain circumstances. For example, I read a document from servicematters.com describing the newest generation of ATC: IIRC the hottest "hot" one can get is 115F. Tab hot water is only available if one selects Hot combined with the Heavy Duty / max. wash time cycle.

In Europe the situation is much the same: every machine carries a label listing water & electricity consumption (amongst other data) so consumers can easily do comparisons and pick the machine with the lowest consumption. The vast majority of people doesn't care about insufficient rinsing due to low-consumption washers. All they want is a machine that's cheap yet "efficient" -> stingy. Additionally, initiatives like "washright.com" tell consumers to "turn the temps down"... As a result problems like biofilm are known here, too.

I totally agree with live_wire_oak - and this is what I wanted to point out in my first post: if one knows how to do laundry (and I strongly assume his grandmother knows how to) then there is no need to worry about wiping everything dry and running cleaning cycles all the time.

BTW: yes, all our washer over here - even the US-sized units we get - can go all the way up to 203°F. However, most people, including me, don't use that setting as it wastes energy. You don't need a washer with boiling capabilities to avoid biofilm. Hot water (140°F is what I prefer) and detergent (more than a teaspoon!) is all it takes me to have a pristine washing machine. IIRC, some of the Bosch Nexxt models go up to 170°F - definately (!) hot enough, despite 110V.

I'm off to my grandma now... helping her to wash curtains in her, you may guess it, Miele washer.

Alex

Hello all! WARNING: Long post

Sorry it's been a while. College pretty much consumed my life the past month!

Alex, live wire oak, I ran this info by my grandmother regarding wiping down the rubber gasket/seal/ boot/ whatever it's called on a FL and that she may not need to do it as often as I originally thought if at all. I also told her that if she had to do it, that it is only a 30 sec. job. I used to do it in my Danby, but don't do it with my current Maytag 2400. Either way, neither machine ever smelled of mildew/mold.

Despite that, she ended up deciding on the Bravos as her washer of choice. As for the dryer, she ended up getting a simple but large capacity Whirlpool gas dryer a year ago. So didn't have to worry about a dryer.

I'll tell ya, I was a bit skeptical about the Bravos being her final choice for a washer because it seems that these washers are a love it or hate it type of machine based on reviews of the sibling Cabrio/Oasis machines. I asked her if she was sure she would not want a FL, and she said she was sure. And because I was asking her so many questions, she was beginning to suspect we were up to something. So my family and I quickly pitched in and bought her the Bravos at Home Depot. Got a sweet deal on it, too! Under $1,000 with mail-in rebates. I was told she was shocked when the delivery people showed up with a new washer for her, especially when she found out it was the Bravos. And we were all worried to how she would react to having to use a new-style HE TL, and whether she would like it or dislike it!

.....and lo and behold......SHE LOVES IT!!!!

She also says that it is not much different to use than a coventional TL as well! She also loves the fact that it uses less water because her old Kenmore guzzled it and her water bill proved it. Not sure if these machines really do make a significant difference in your water bill, but she is happy and well find out for sure when her next water bill comes! She also loves the fact that it spins so fast and most loads take approximately 30 min in the dryer! She says it makes interesting sounds while washing and spinning but gets the job done and the stain treat is a cool option because it sprays the dry load with a mixture of water and detergent for something like 5 min while the tub spins (I think that's how she described it).

I forgot to ask her how much detergent she uses in her Bravos and what kind. If I know her, she is probably using Tide HE. Is there anything else that she should be using that might be better? How much detergent do other Cabrio/Bravos/Oasis owners use in their machines? The same as FL amount (1 teaspoon to 2 tbsp., depending on machine)? Or do you use more in these machines? Would Persil be a good detergent to use in a Bravos? I use(d) it in my Danby and the Maytag 2400 and love it! Just curious of other's recommendations, I want to make sure she has the best! Thanks!

Kevin

Always use HE detergents! No exceptions!
Just follow the dosing directions on the package.

Oh! I just left a post on the Cabrio Woes postings saying I don't remember hearing much about Bravos and were they like the Cabrios. Duh! I forgot all about your posting, and I have posted on it in the past. I think you are still the only person to talk about the Bravos!

I'm glad your Granma likes her new machine. I still am very happy with my Cabrio. My mother-in-law looked at it and said she would never be able to figure out how to work it - but she won't even use a computer to go to QVC.com. I'm not surprised your grandma finds it easy to use, mine was a breeze. I love the many setting choices, pop the cloths in, pick the cycle that best describes your load, and hit start. How easy is that. I used to use only four setting on my old machine, I wasn't even sure what some of the other were for, and I owned it for ten years. But then, to me laundry is just another chore that must get done, not the passion it is for some people.

I am very much interested in this machine but mid April? Yikes! Oh oh, don't tell my DH. I'm pushing for them now.

Hello all! I thought I would share my experience with my Bravos. Let me first start by saying no matter what I write later on I still love the idea and functionality of this machine. I had just moved into a new home with my husband and 3 year olds with a bay on the way, actually a month away. We did not have a washer and dryer and our credit is not the best so we went ahead and leased one from Aarons, it is like rent a center, just different company name. I know how much we will end up paying in the long run but anyway. We recieved both the washer and dryer within a few days and I really put them to work. I decided on that set just for the large capacity function and water saver. We live out in the country and I always took our pillows and comforters in to the laundry mat every two weeks. Well like I said I put them to work I did over 27 loads including pillows (which I found no matter what the type if you place them in a circle around the basket your load wont be unbalanced) I had all of our clothes, towels, sheets etc all in boxes and I was not going to put them away after sitting in a storage shed for over a year. Plus we were having another little girl so I had to wash all of my daughter old clothes, blankets etc. The whites came out sparkling whiter than any other load I have done before(yes the load did take quite a long time I believe the setting time is 90 something mins) My husband works in the oil fields and his clothes are always oily dirty and hard to clean with this washer almost all the stains came out even ones that had been set in....after all those loads I did experience a problem the washer had stopped washer and had shown and error code F. Well when you look in the manual the code just says to call your service center. Well I did and they had come out to fix it I guess it was some computer panel had gone out and they had to order a new one. (so I would suggest just incase since computer parts are expensive to replace always get the extended warranty) well since the washer is newer they part was back ordered for 3 weeks, I had another washer brought out and they took mine, when the part came in they did fix it and return it to me right away. The first load I did when I got it back was a comforter, I figured if it would mess up again it would on a heavier load. Needless to say the error code came back Code F well I called the company and they said to me that another Bravos set that came on the same truck was doing the same thing. So they are replacing the whole washer for me with a new one again. I did call Maytag and did a search online to see if anyone else had this problem and one of the guys at the store had mentioned since the computer boards were made in china of japan I dont remember which alot of time because they are mass produced they can have a bad batch. It had happened to them with a shipment of refridgerators. So please I know this was long but if you do purchase one do get the warranty with it and also I would not trade my set in for all the chocolate in the world lol The loads number of loads I do every week which averages 4-5 plus two of them are soo dirty this set has been the best out of anything I have ever had! I just hope it will last 10 years like my old TL did. But it seems like nowadays anything with a computer in it is upgraded every 2-3 years and your items becomes obsolete. So thank you for letting me share. Also I hope your grandmother loves her set I was on cloud nine when I got mine. at 87 I am glad she is still doing her own thing, my grandma was still full of piss and vinager at that age she was a great gal!

Hi!

Yeah my granfdma is a trip! We all want to take care of her being that she is almost 88 but she still insists on doing her own thing and taking care of herself! She wouldn't have it any other way! So we all just need to accept the fact that this is a VERY good thing and that we should be fortunate she is still able to take care of herself at her age.

As for the Bravos, yes it really is an excellent washer! We did not find it a far cry in terms of use from a conventional TL washer as I stated above in earlier posts except for the fact that it uses 1/2 the water, has no agitator and spins twice as fast!

However, the only thing that freaks me out regarding these washers is that stupid F code, which luckily my grandma has not experienced yet! (knock on wood!)

Interesting though, you are maybe something like the second Bravos owner that has said you had F code problems, yet you still rave about it's performance just like most Bravos owners have based on reviews I've seen (have seen a few negative reviews, though, usually regarding tangling. Have you had that problem? My grandma hasn't.....well.......yet)

While with the Cabrio, the Bravos' sibling washer, I've heard about 1/2 wonderful reviews from pleased owners and about 1/2 terrible reviews from displeased owners. And as for the Oasis (another sibling of the Bravos), I have heard many terrible reviews from many displeased owners. Yet they are all virtually the same machine!

So the pattern I'm seeing is that the Bravos gets the better reviews, the Cabrio gets mixed reviews and the Oasis gets not so good reviews. Maybe because the Oasis was the first to hit the stores when it debuted, the Cabrio was the second, and the Bravos was the last, and by the time the Bravos hit the stores most of the kinks had been worked out. Just something that I thought was interesting. What does everyone else think?

Aside from that, it is a wonderful machine and my grandmother is very pleased with it! It has gotten old stains out of my grandma's old dish towels, the ones she never thought would come out because her old Kenmore TL couldn't get them out! That's courtesy of the Stain Treat option, which really makes a difference! In order for the Bravos to get tough stains out like that it sometimes takes that option plus the extra heavy soil setting, which does rack up the cycle minutes but that doesn't seem to bother my grandmother nor I, but thats just us.

Anyhoo, I'm hope everything gets worked out in terms of the F-code with your machine. And very wise advice regarding the extended warranty for we purchased that, too! Have you gotten your new machine yet? And I'm glad you enjoy it so much that you would not trade it in for all the chocolate in the world! :o)

Kevin

Kevin,About the difference in the 3 models-well I have wondered about that also but with the dishwashers. You know the Sears dishwashers with "ultra wash" are made by Whirlpool and are identical wash arms and systems I understand but then Sears says theirs is "Americas Best Wash System" and then in Consumer Reports they are way ahead of the Whirlpools even though they look and seem the same. I didn't mean to get off the washer "track" but I just thought this was similar to what you were saying about the 3 being alike but "different". What do you think makes one different from the other if all the main components are the same? I can see a different cycle name or something like that but with the same "workings" you would think they would all perform identical.

Hmmmmmm......interesting scenario regarding the two dishwashers.

In the case of the Oasis/Cabrio/Bravos, I'm guessing that one reason is because the Oasis made it's debut first (around December '05 or something like that) and the Bravos debut less than a year ago in March of '07. My guess is that most of the kinks involved with the Oasis/Cabrio from Dec. '05 on were worked out up until March of '07 when the Bravos hit the stores. Hence, this may be why the Bravos may not have as many problems as the other 2 models. Just a thought.

I'm not sure if this is the case with the dishwashers. Even still, there are some negative reviews of the Bravos out there as well in terms of computer boards blowing or flashing codes at you. I think nowadays that probability of electronic failure sort of comes with the territory no matter what washer you buy. Just my 2 cents! :o)

Kevin

It's certainly true that new products can go through manufacturing teething problems when they are first introduced, and you have to be able to distiguish between these kinds of problems, and endemic design problems that can plague a product for all time.

In the case of the Oasis/Cabrio/Bravos there seem to be two distinct sets of opinion. Those people who haven't experienced F codes, etc.. seem to be very much infatuated with the product, while people who have had these kinds of problems are definitely less happy. Given this, it seems to me that what we're seeing here is a well designed product that has had the aforementioned manufacturing teething problems.

It's unfortunate, but now that Whirlpool has had a chance to work through these issues, things should start to look better and better. I'm waiting for when Whirlpool comes out with the first new Cabrio model introductions, because these new models should be evolutionary new products, as opposed to completely new products, and consequently should contain a lot of subtle changes and tweaks that resolve the things that people have expressed concerns about.

When this happens, I expect that Cabrio will probably become the new standard bearer for HE top loaders. After all, there's nothing else on the market that comes even close to claiming 4.5 cubic feet of basket capacity.

Hello

They are bringing a new washer to me this friday. As I mentioned before I did the first load when I got it back and it was a comforter and I had the F code again, but I have been able to do small loads (knock on wood) without the code stopping the machine. So I am confused as to why but not worried too much since I have a replacement coming. As for your grandmother washing older items with set in stains that came out I had the same luck with my hubbys oily clothes. He had set in stains that vanished when I washed them in this washer and also old formula stains on my daughters clothes came out with out pretreating the clothing. I was amazed!!Other than the F code being the main problem, yes another down fall every once in awhile I do get a load that is tangled up, but if you ask me there is no way of preventing that with a TL, and I have not seen or heard of a way of technology providing a solution for that. So for some people if that is their biggest grip that there clothes get tangled, I believe they need to focus on more important issues and relax a bit. lol

Yes you are correct let your grandma do what she wants, I had a hard time explaining that to my mom who always wanted to do for my grandma afraid she would hurt herself or wear herself out, I believe in their minds they need to keep going and keep busy to feel alive and vibrant because they know there time is limited so they try to live their life to the fullest. I lost my grandmother last year and she was like the energizer bunny up until that time, that is what we loved about her.

Also with the washer yes the times on some setting are quite long but the result when its finished is worth the wait for good looking clean clothes! If you have a hard time waiting for the load to finish then you need to keep busy some how until it is done. I clean while I am waiting lol. I also read somewhere some lady was complaining because she had a black set and the lint trap on the dryer was on top and the lint showed on the dryer. PLEASE, I honestly prefer the ones on top because it seems like it collects better than the ones inside. Also take a piece of clothing you haven't washed yet and wiped down your dryer. If it was too much to do you should have chose white. To me it is just regular cleaning and maintance that you have to do along with anything else you own.

One thing I thought was very odd, I read the whole manual before I used the system and it mentioned if you put your washer in a storage unit for a lengthy amount of time that you need to run antifreeze through the washer for winter protection. Now that is odd I have never heard of that before on any washer!!! That is what that clean machine cycle is for if you are wondering.

Thanks again
Sherry

Oh and I use the Tide HE and also Clorox makes and HE formula that is thicker like detergent. I have not seen a liquid fabric softner that is HE. But these are recomended to use, they are also cheaper I have seen then the normal sized detergents, at least where I shop they are. I do believe if you use normal detergent you need to cut it down to a third is what I read somewhere if not the Bravos has an error code for too many suds in the basket. Weird huh.

Hi Sherry!

I don't think that you could have said it any better!

A little dryer lint on the top of the dryer is no big deal to me! We actually did not get my grandmother the Bravos dryer but she has a Whirlpool dryer with the same configuration and could care less about a top-mount lint screen as well as any bits of lint that can easily be swept off the top of the dryer if it bothers her that much (which it doesn't).

As for the tangling, it's interesting that you say that it tangles clothes no more than a regular ol' TL machine does! That is exactly how my grandmother and I felt! Hence, we did not feel that it tangled at all because......well.......it "tangled" just as much as her old Kenmore did, which was typical through our eyes for any washing machine to do anyway!

Although I will say that when she uses the Bravos, she does load it particularly by simply dropping all items around the center of the impeller per instructions of other members on this forum who own these washers. I don't believe that she loads clothes into the Bravos any other way. It would be interesting to see the results if one were to simply dump a basketful of dirty clothes into the tub and let 'er rip. How do you load the clothes into the Bravos?

Anyway, let us know how everything goes with your new Bravos on Friday! Thanks! :o)

Kevin

Hi Kevin sorry it took so long to respond. The new washer works great! No problems what so ever. I have been super busy with the holidays and with my two little ones one is 3 and the other is 4 months. She was a premie. Needless to say they take up all my time. lol Well to let you know the only time I ever just wrap items around the basket is when I am washing my pillows or blankets. As for the rest of the laundry I always just throw them in. My 3 year old helps alot and for obvious reasons the clothes are always just thrown in with her. I do have to say I have done that to with blankets (never pillows) and the washer does just fine. Cleans perfectly. So if your grandma would to save time and the hassle let her know just to "Wing it" she doesn't have to take the extra time to wrap them perfectly around the impeller. I have tried it both ways. And the clothes tangle just the same lol I hope you have a good christmas and new year!!

Sherry

Hi Sherry!! :o)

No worries with the delay in response! :o) It certainly is a busy time of year and it sounds like you have a lot on your plate! I hope everything is all right with your baby being that she was a premie.

I'm glad that you are enjoying your Bravos! It's good to know, that you do not have to be so particular about loading the washer after all. I will pass this info on to my grandmother.

I still find it interesting how the Bravos barely gets any publicity on this forum and does not seem to have all the problems that it's sibling washer's have, especially the Oasis. I hear MANY complaints about that machine, yet it's almost mechanically the same as the Bravos except for a couple of features and trim details. The Bravos also seems to be the most reasonably priced of the three machines.

Also, in case anyone's interested, I have provided a link to a new model Bravos that has recently made a debut. It has some sort of special energy saving quality (whatever that is), an ever so slight increase in capacaty (4.6 instead of 4.5, not a huge deal) and comes with the option of a silver exterior.

Take care and have a wonderful holiday and a happy new year!! :o)

Kevin

4.6 cubic feet!! Like 4.5 cubic feet wasn't enough.

I'm real curious to learn what Whirlpool changed to get the increase. The obvious changes like increasing the diameter of the inner and outer wash tub would cost way too much money to justify this small increase in volume.

It's true that there aren't many complaints about the Bravos, but like you say, it's the same basic washer as the Oasis, so it's not likely that there's much measurable difference between them.

Actually I think there are two possible explanations for this. The first is that there are probably a lot fewer Maytag Bravos washers on the market as compared to the Oasis, and it's also reasonable to believe that Whirlpool has been continously improving the quality of both products with small changes ever since the Oasis was first introduced, and that the Bravos didn't come to market until most of these improvements were implemented.

washer man

I agree with you 100%. Whirlpool had worked out many of the kinks that the Oasis and Cabrio had before the Bravos made it's debut. That is exactly what I was thinking was the reason you don't hear many negatives about the Bravos.

Yeah, and you'd think 4.5 would be enough. Wouldn't be too surprised if they come out with something bigger than 4.6 less than a year from now or so! Geez!

All in all, my grandmother and I are rather impressed with the Bravos. The only thing that I feel the Bravos is missing is a built-in water heater.

Anyhoo that's my 2 cents! :o) Have a wonderful holiday!

Kevin

Kevin,

I definitely agree with you about the heater. One thing that's not often mentioned by posters in this forum is that the GE Harmony has a heater. I'd be interested in hearing from Harmony owners about how effective their heater is.

Also, Whirlpool's not a company that likes to be one-uped, so I'm betting there's a heater in Cabrio's/ Bravos' future as well.

Not likely, as it isn't necessary. The Cabrio/Oasis/Bravos duplicates F&P's method of initally running super-concentrated detergent through the clothes repeatedly, which does as well, if not better, on the germs as cooking them (with a lot less damage to fabrics as well).

I've noticed a huge difference on bath towels, etc.

Ref:
http://www.fisherpaykel.com/laundry/index.cfm?productUid=8B1AE4E4-0200-81E3-A71D2BBC9E99165F&section=allergy&page=diff

dudleyfuddpucker

All I know is that when I owned a Danby FL with it's heater it performed way better than my current Maytag 2400 FL without a heater, and it did not do any damage to fabrics at all, but that's my experience! :o)

However, I'm interested to know more about this technique that the FP/Oasis/Bravos/Cabrio washers use utilizing super-concentrated detergent if you say it works better than a heater. After all, grandmother's Bravos does clean clothes very well without the heater!

However, the link you provided does not seem to work. I paste it into my browser but just get a search page or something to that effect, unless I'm doing something wrong. Thanks!

It's actually Whirlpool's patented "Catalyst" system.

What happens is at the beginning of the wash cycle the washer adds just enough water to mix with the detergent to create a super high concentrated mix. Then the washer spins the clothes at a few hundred rpm to plaster them against the side of the wash tub, and then pumps and sprays the detergent concentration mixture onto the clothes from the inside.

What happens then is the detergent mixture is then extruded through the clothes by centrifugal force from the spinning wash tub. When water & detergent get through the clothes they drain into the bottom of the outer wash tub, and then get pumped and sprayed again.

It's Whirlpool's way of getting super concentrated detergent into the clothes before the washer has to fill up with enough water to float the clothes. It's a very effective cleaning method on soils and stains that respond best to the chemical action of detergent.

So essentially it is the "stain treat" option on the Bravos? Thanks for the info, washer man! We definitely have found the stain treat option to be very effective!

However, despite that, I would still like to see a heater in a Bravos someday. I would think that a built-in heater along with "Catalyst" cleaning and/or "stain treat" would give superb results.

Slight correction on Washer_Man's info in regards to Fisher & Paykel ...

Their machines don't spin the clothes at several hundred RPM during the "catalyst" phase (F&P calls it EcoActive Wash). Their speed is about 25 RPM while the recirculated detergent spray runs for several minutes. Whirlpool probably has the higher speed included as part of their Catalyst patent. Either way, it's quite effective.

Interesting to note that the ill-fated Kenmore/Whirlpool Calypso machines also used the "Catalyst" process, but spun at 60 RPM.

The Maytag site, when using the "compare" feature, indicates that two of their Bravos models have 1200 watt heating elements. However, when you look up the owners' manual, it doesn't mention anything about the water heat feature, and there are 2 owners manuals listed for one model (6300), neither of which lists the model number on it! Someone at Maytag needs to do some Q+A on their web site.

I know this is an old post but I am compelled to leve my two cents for anyone who might be thinking about this dryer.
Got mine in 2008. Problems ever since. For a Xtra capacity dryer it has the lint screen the size of a Holly Hobbie toy dryer (TOO SMALL)! The dryer is constantly filled with wet (Probably a problem with the steam function), BURNT, lint!!! INSIDE!!! It has lost the fan belt and overheated 3 times causing near fires. We found large chunks of black burnt lint inside of it. It would stop dryer clothes, leak water.....you tell me....from underneath....Now the belt is off again but this time the bolt and screw that hold it on is stripped so there is no home repair. It is such a fire hazard anyway---there should never be that much lint and water in a dryer!!!!!