tapla, >These all present the potential for difficulty or disaster.What did that mean? Driving a car presents potential difficulties or disasters too, but, if someone wants to warn against such problems, they usually do so by explaining themselves. >This is untrue. Nicotine is a known carcinogen, but is not phytotoxic to any noticeable degree. Nicotine insecticides have been used for years, and before I knew better, I used tobacco tea with no evidence of plant damage.Not big on reading what I was responding to, huh? The question was if CIGARETTE BUTTS should be used as FILLER. 1.) Cigarette butts and Nicotine insecticides are two different things! 2.) Nicotine isnt a carcinogen at all; the poisons (phytotoxics  I can use big words, too, just see no need when "poison" is easier to spell. LOL) are other substances in the cigarette and the derivative from the nicotine, which become even more potent, once smokers draw them all into the filter as we finish the smoke - once again making it a crappy filler for gardening! 3.) Nicotine Insecticide is a 40% solution of nicotine, not butts! As for the harm of such exposure of the insecticide, while the nicotine does degrade quickly, it is still an insecticide, able to harm the gardener just by going through the skin. (http://www.moleculeoftheday.com/2006/06/21/nicotine-freebasing-insecticide & http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/chemical/nicotine.htm#PartTitle:9.%20CLINICAL%20EFFECTS ) Then again, the carcinogens in the butts DO poison people, animals, plants, and the ground. 4.) If it caused no problems, why do you "know better now?" (Then again, why is it you're allowed to learn as you go, but obviously, we are to KNOW all of this stuff immediately?) >Oh, and for the record -- there is no such thing as a plant being kept in the same pot long term, if you want to keep your plants health in containers This is also just not true. With a little knowledge of repotting, root and regular pruning techniques, even herbaceous plantings can be kept in the same containers indefinitely.Again, this just makes you look silly and snotty. Had you read the WHOLE paragraph, your response was needless. YouÂve said nothing different then what I said. >There's more that I disagree with, but there's not much sense in going over it now.Well, so far the only thing IÂve seen you disagree with, that I actually WROTE, was about some of the fillers IÂve used. Nothing written why they were a bad idea to begin with, so even that was useless. As for the rest of the "disagreements," I can agree that you are very disagreeable, just disagreeing on something that I didnÂt write, or disagreeing by agreeing with me! A waste of ire! I almost expected to be disagreed with, yet assumed there would actually be rational reasoning behind it. I have no problem with disagreement, but assume that the person disagreeing would explain why?! Unlike you, I gave the best help I could offer, and actually took my time to respond thoroughly. Meanwhile, you merely pooh-poohed me with no facts included, no reasoning at all, and obviously little reading involved on your part! There wasnÂt any reason to go at all, since you contributed nothing to the thread, except to show you're disagreeable. As for everyone participating on this thread -- thank you. I've learned more too. I have used all the fillers I've mentioned last year, and like tapla, I've seen no problems with my plants by doing so. After having to sift my soil away from the peanuts used last year, the only thing I've added to my method, is to put a layer of shredded paper between the soil and peanuts, in hope that the peanuts don't stick in the soil again next year. If that doesn't work, the only thing I'll ever use Styrafoam for again, is to surround the planters during winter for insulation (putting them in contractor bags wrapped around the containers.) I have learned that they do not flatten over the gardening season. Also, unflattened soda cans with the opening faced down IS a better idea then flattening them, (Read that in a book, and have done it myself.) Don't know if that gives you any more useful info, or not. Just wanted to make sure, I'm not angry with anyone else on this thread, and thought it was a good thread, in general! Lynn

This bill has NOTHING to do with socialism and EVERYTHING to do with capitalism. The profits of big agriculture are written all over this bill. I've spent weeks 'dissecting' every word in the bill and researching the co sponsors and the wretched politicians that wrote it , you should do the same. It does in fact impact farmers markets or any vegetable that is sold or meant for human consumption. It makes all growers comply with industry regulations ie insect control/pest nematodes,bacterial disease control and on and on. It hardly impacts the current agriculture monopolies and impacts the small farmers that don't have the resources to comply with regulations. Tom Vilsak (one of the bills authors) is heavily in favor of large industrial farms and genetically modified crops. Political spin confuses people, it is not about socialism per say , if we want to be intellectually honest HR 875 was born out of corporate monopolies infiltrating Washington with their money and influence. This bill is capitalism out of control,paradoxically the profit motive of corporate monopolies is behind this bill. They see the threat of small farmers and back yard growers and they want to stop it. This is all about $ business $....thats capitalism for you.

Thanks Sue & Donna for posting follow ups after doing changes. I'm always yearning for more production earlier in the season because by mid August the sun lowers and my edible gardens receive less hours of sunlight from nearby tall fir trees. I've yet to have a soil test, but would if the cost was less. Various areas of my garden have been double dug and in production for varying lengths of time as I've expanded the garden area. Initially, I just used rabbit, duck, and chicken manure from my kids' backyard animals along with homemade compost. About 5 years ago I started using horse manure + sawdust bedding in huge amounts applied in fall or winter as available nearby free for the hauling. Spread on top of soils along with shredded leaves and other organic matter (shredded garden waste, grass clippings, used coffee grounds, chicken manure + bedding, hay/straw sweepings). Some years covered with burlap bags over winter. In spring that soil is amazingly loose, but I've still turned over the bed at least 1 shovel depth then let set before planting. This year I was turned soil over as deep as I could going down 2-3 shovel depths. Horse manure was applied in February rather than in fall and wasn't fully decomposed, so I wanted it deep instead of on top. The tomatoes are growing great and blooming with some fruit. In my cool summer climate it's slow growing until the heat is turned on after July 4 when we have more sunny days over 70. The other difference is we spread the red plastic perforated tomato mulch in the tomato bed and installed 5 more soaker hoses, so I only have to water part of the potatoes & beans in the newest part of the garden. In some of the beds I added additional rabbit manure (raspberries, SFG boxes, strawberries, squash). Time will tell how productivity will be different. A pic of one SFG box with the black water pipe hoops to extend the season with plastic covering. Red cabbage, red lettuces starting to bolt, transplanted flat leaf parsley from self sown middle of the bed, chives on edge, self sown or moved calendula, multiplier onions, broccoli & kale toward back of bed. In another box we used thicker white PVC pipe slipped in 1"x12" pieces of PVC clamped to inside of bed. view of edible garden along gravel driveway (realize the view is too small to really see much) fruit trees underplanted with strawberries, garlic & daylilies with cement blocks holding back soil & planted with herbs & sedums first tree visible is a large Rainier cherry tree and if birds didn't get so many we'd be eating more of them (always thinking of taking it out, but then the cherries come-- then they're nearly gone) hoses run to connect to soakers or other hoses that connect to soakers as spigot is some distance from garden SFG boxes with large orange pots of bush cucumbers + flowers in front, black earth machine cold compost for kitchen waste behind various pots of sedums & herbs on ground along with plastic tote of small seedlings row of raspberries row of tomatoes large zucchini bed between 2 small pear trees with bale of straw & white plastic used on tomatoes previously in the middle of pic (waiting for them to dry before storing, but we keep having rain) yellow raspberries with red blooming bee balm, Monarda on other side of pear trees potatoes here & there more potatoes in compost bins behind main garden squash bed in pallet raised area ladders for green beans, etc. Hope the pics help~ Corrine

hi woodnymph, glad to hear things are going better. My English mastiff isn't a picky eater but will detect pills in anything after about a week, so I have to alternate what I hide the pills in. I use a variety of foods: peanut butter cream cheese hard cheese hot dogs liverwurst bologna slices cooked chicken livers By alternating foods, I avoid wrestling with his jaws (and his slobber!)-- he scarfs those "hidden" pills right down. Hope this helps.