Steveej:

Your question tells me you are not a certified HVAC/R technician, nor is the person who you wish to have sweat your line connections, and neither of you are licensed to handle refrigerants.

I do not believe you are asking for the purpose of keeping a licensed tech in line, because in new installations, it is part of the price, and in replacement or repair installations there are too many variables for a pat answer.

I would be glad to send the EPA to your address so that I can collect the 15% bounty on the potential $25,000.00 first time fine you are eligible for.

Ruudman

You really are an idiot. Call the EPA, my mother or anyone else you wish to call. I have not done nor plan to do anything illegal. People like you don't increase the trust of HVAC technicians, they decrease it because you can never get a straight answer. The whole reason I posted any questions here is because I got screwed by the first company I paid to come and recover the freon from the old system, before I removed it. I thought it might be wise to arm myself with some general information before calling a new company to pipe and charge the new system. If you don't know the answers to my questions, don't post a reply. But whatever you do, stop assuming. You know, It's out of a man's own heart, he judges others motives...

A tech has to be there to answer such questions if they come from sincere people.

"steveej,It greatly depends on the brand and length of refrigerant lines.If it is a matched new system it can be measured or weighed in." is what Bama Dude told you.

"--because in new installations, it is part of the price, and in replacement or repair installations there are too many variables for a pat answer." is what I told you.

You know Bama Dude and I are not "tight", but we came up with approximately the same response.

Sincere people would have understood that.

I do not believe you are a sincere person.

Ruudman

STEVEEJ

Don't get too worked up. Ruddman is a sharp guy and knows his stuff. He's an old fart and not exactly what we would call diplomatic but, he means well. Stay on him and you'll get good solid sound advice even though you may have blue throbbing temple veins afterwards!!

I don't think your unit will take over 3 pounds but then again, there are many variables specific to the unit itself and installation peculiarities.

Hello,
In theory Ruddman is correct. In practice a first offense is ignored. The fine is stiff, to try and eliminate the jack leg people that do not take percautions. In actual practice, many HVAC guys are no better. They are required to have a CFC certificate, that is an open book test? They are required to have recovery equipment on the truck. If you are not removing freon, then the recovery equipment stays on the truck. Several large national repair companies in my area will fire a tech if he uses recovery equipment ( in the past, and I do not know if the practice is still done) and the job takes to long. I have complained on this topic before.

In answer to your question, a good tech can complete the job in about 1 hour, and a sloppy teck can do the job in 15 minutes. If the tech takes 15 minutes, expect to need service soon. I like to vacuum twice and purge with gas. this takes about 1.5 hours for the entire job. I also make all of my connections, so I do not worry about leaks. A leak can take days to correct. Sloppy installations or just not knowing, can cause problems. Not always, but sometimes.

I live in a "right to work" state. This means sub-level job wages, but with the CFC certificate, anyone can install a unit legally.

Hello Bob, the test I took in PA wasn't "open book". Were you joking around or what?

Bob Brown:

They may allow the first offense to pass if "they" catch you, but anyone that turns you in and wants the 15% bounty can definitely force the issue.

There was a Sears tech that got caught venting a refrigerator to atmosphere and the customer who was standing over him knew the law. The customer turned the guy in and got 15% of, I believe it was a $22,500.00 fine.

I paid my dues, took my yearly seminars, bought my liablity insurance, spent over $1,000.00 for recovery equipment and maintained log books that had to match usage and recovery.

When I spend so much time and money doing it right and doing it legal, I have absolutely no qualms about turning anyone in that does not do it legally, especially with the size of the bounty they offer.

Ruudman

Hey Ruudman, you're somewhat of a bounty hunter.

Our so called " open book test " is an eight hour course
and closed book exam. The new course is 2 days at 8 hours
and $350.00 to the tech. and you have to prove you work in the trade. No average joe off the street can write the test and i think it should be that way everywhere. Steveej. How long have your lines been exposed to atmospher? Did you blow in them to clean out dust ? How do you know you need 410 ? Just asking. If it was me i'd put the pump on over night. Never know how contaminated the lines are. Actually i wouldn't do it personally, too much at stake for me. Just my input. I'll let the customer hate
the tech that took 1 hour where it should have taken much more and more money to do it right. I know where Ruddman is
coming from. Most of us have been in the busness long enough to have seen and heard almost all of it. No offence
but we get P.O.ed at customers that try but only manage to
make it worse. LEAVE IT ALONE. The customer is happier with half the cost and faster operation time and the tech
doesn't have to, in some cases undo most of the stuff the
customer tried to help with. just the way i see it. Others
probably don't. Good luck with your project.

Kaling:

Unless you are flushing the lines with a liquid refrigerant, don't know any pumps that clean out dirt and dust.

Just put in a HUGE filter on the suction line at the condensor and a liquid filter with sight glass before the capillary tube near the evaporator. If the filters get dirty, replace them. The extra service call and subsequent costs will help the customer to remember that sometimes you just have to trust a pro.

Ruudman

I know it's been a while since I made my original post. I am sure I was too hard on Ruudman, but I never liked bullies and don't like to be threatened by anyone for anything. It always brings out the worst in me.
It's funny how much speculation there was after my original post, so I thought I would state the facts about my experience. I am a contractor who entered the HVAC and sheet metal union trade almost 30 years ago. I held a mechanical liscense until the mid 90's but began business in other directions. The only reason I did not do my own refrigeration is precisely because I did not hold the proper liscensing anymore, and I was out of touch with current price trends in the field. I still have the proper tools and access to recovery equipment, but wanted the work to be done legally. Maybe that's why I was so put off by ruudman's assuming response, which he judged out of speculation and assumption, not facts. You might know HVAC, but you don't know people. Regardless, my new system was completed, and has worked beautifully.