My apologies.. this is for upstairs and down we have a 2.5 ton packaged unit that is 2005 era.

abem

a couple of immediate observations.

The Lennox XP16 does not qualify for tax credit. The Lennox XP14 does qualify and while air handler is not VS, it does have a high eff blower motor. Both systems are three ton.

The Trane XR15 system is 2 1/2 ton. Did you note that?

I am not a fan of Lennox heat pumps.

what size heat pump are you replacing? what size heat strip do you currently have?

from your post, your ductwork system needs a thorough evaluation.

I do not like re-using refrigerant lines unless absolutely necessary due to a building obstruction. Refrigerant lines have to be sized correctly to achieve new system's performance/efficiency capability.

I can make some suggestions if you like.

While I do like Trane, the pricing provided by that dealer is absurd.

these are my minimum specs for a new HP system. both outside and inside units should be replaced to have a properly matched system.

15 SEER, 12.5+ EER, 9 HSPF
best matching VS air handler
full BTUs in both cooling and heating for your rated size
R-410a refrigerant(same as Puron)
scroll compressor preferred
electronic demand defrost preferred
thermostat with "dehumidify on demand" feature
staged backup heat strips
new and correctly sized refrigerant lineset

you want a thorough inspection of your ductwork system. size, overall condition, supply and return lines, insulation qualities, leak test, etc.

any hot/cold spot issues in your home should be addressed.

I would only use authorized dealers for the various brands that provide quotes. see mfg websites.

IMO

It is a 2.5 ton Trane from 1996, not sure the heat strip spec. I can check though. The lines are supposedly 3/4" and suitable for reuse (brick exterior). The dealer seems to think the XP qualifies .. maybe I copied the wrong line. This one is right?
XP16 SERIES LENNOX INDUSTRIES, INC. XP16-036-230* CBX40UHV-042*+TDR 36800 12.20 16.20 32800 8.20 19700 Energy Star HRCU-A-CB

I'm open to suggestions and I had a feeling the Trane dealers price was out there. It seems the Lennox product line has a hole where my exact needs are. But I do not worry about overcooling @ the moment as the 2.5 ton trane cannot keep up 76-77 degrees on a 95 degree day. Also the 2 stage / variable speed should help? Are you just not a fan of Lennox's BTU's in heating mode? Is there inherit design crappiness?

Thanks again.

abem

first off I made an error which I will come back in a moment to correct.

based on your last post, it sounds like you may be borderline or even undersized at 2 1/2 ton for your upstairs system. I would ask dealer to perform a load calculation-get it in writing. if confirmed, then ask dealer the consequence to your ductwork system as far as modification/upgrade for a three ton system both supply, returns, and trunk lines.

now to my error.

The three ton XP16 you were quoted does not qualify for the tax credit.

this three ton XP16 system does qualify barely but has low heating BTUs and mediocre HSPF heating eff.

3671283 Active Systems XP16 SERIES LENNOX INDUSTRIES, INC. XP16-036-230-05 CBX32MV-036*+TDR 35600 12.50 16.20 33200 8.50 19900

I am going to assume you need a three ton system. The XP14 you were quoted was actually a 2 1/2 ton. My error for not catching that. This would be your best choice below in the XP14 three ton system.

1292429 Active Systems XP14 SERIES LENNOX INDUSTRIES, INC. XP14-036-230* CBX32MV-048*+TDR 35800 13.00 15.00 35200 8.75 21200

I would pair with a HW Vision Pro IAQ stat that has "DOD" feature to handle humidity for Charlotte area/summer climate. lineset should be sized and installed new.

Here is a nice Bryant selection with solid numbers.

3406040 Active Systems PREFERRED 15 PURON HP BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 265ANH036-B FV4CN(B,F)005 36000 13.00 15.50 36000 9.00 21800

The Bryant would require their mnatching thermidistat. They also offer a 9KW staged heat strip that I would recommend.

IMO
Good Luck!

abem3,
It's basically all the same stuff when you get a lot of bids, you start to get mixed up on who said what.

The higher quality you go the better the stuff is made.
And the Better it is made the longer it should last.
I don't mean higher SEER because there are systems that get good SEER ratings but they are not made of the same materials.
For example Trane has XB14 that qualifies for the Tax Credit. Then they have a XR15 that qualifies and then a XL15i that qualifies. Well the XB14 can't even compare to the XL15i. So what you think you are getting in SEER is not the same as longevity you get with an upgraded system with the same SEER rating.

For me lennox is ok, I don't sell lennox because of the support they give in my local area. Your area could be different.

My main thought was
I'm glad to see you are looking into getting your ducts replaced. This to me may be as or more important than your system.
As I see you got quotes for a system and duct since duct issues may be a concern for you to be looking into.

With 7 contractors you should have one that you can sit down with again. Go over all your issues and concerns, have them explain how they are going to replace your duct and system.
and then go for it.
i also would have them break it down equipment and duct replacement.

Thanks for the help guys. I am getting closer, one more guy is coming by to quote me on a Bryant like tigerdunes mentioned.

Also, thanks for the heads up about the XP14 / Var speed handler. That combo looks halfway decent as far as BTU's and HSPF.. but I'm a newbie @ this stuff. So I'm sure I do not understand the expected BTU from 2.5 vs 3 ton etc.

I am a little better at using the AHRI stuff now I was also ignoring $1500 on my previous Lennox quotes (whoops!).

My strips are 8k and that is all the wires will handle.

More information, it looks like the original system in the house was 2 ton. It was upgraded to 2.5 ton maybe as 500 sq ft bonus above garage was finished out. Duct trunk looks quality but the 2 runs for bonus above garage were added to the end of the trunk. Today, Trane contractor suggested I add a plenum to my trunk and take 1/3 the air directly to the bonus room. This seemed like an interesting idea. As my trunk might be undersized but still in good shape, any huge gotchas with attempting something along these lines?

Don't mean to be long winded, thanks to all for the help thus far.

Abe

This was the Rheem quote I also just got.

Shop has only been in business for 1 year, seems like a red flag. Claims he will do ManD/ ManJ and provide to me. Anyway, he proposes to ditch all current ducts and this system:

RHEEM MANUFACTURING COMPANY RPQL-030JEZ RHKL-HM3617+RCSL-H*3617 30000 13.00 15.50 29000 9.00 18300 1 HRCU-A-CB 223 614

tigerdunes,

If you're still with me, just wondering what you think about this Bryant Combo:

Unit. 285bna heat pump with a FE4 tin coated variable speed air handler and Bryant evolution thermostat

These guys did a manD + had a lot of lingo that I cannot remember but they were thorough. My problem is they want 8.3k for the equipment alone. Then add the ductwork to that.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around a $3k delta between Lennox / Bryant. The Rheem isn't too far from the Lennox.

Thanks again for the XP14 combo with the CBX32V air handler!

Abe

abem

looks like you have received around five quotes.

I think at this point you have to ask yourself what exactly are you attempting to accomplish.

I could not find a rating on the 285BNA Bryant. Bryant is quality HVAC. You will pay more for the matching Evolution air handler and Evolution control. Top of line though.

Rheem depending on model is an often overlooked and underrated brand. They make quality HVAC including HPs with good numbers. And they have electronic demand defrost which eliminates nuisance and unnecessary defrost calls.

Have you decided on the right size? and have dealers inspected your ductwork system?

IMO

Ha thanks, you're right.. Lots of quotes :)

2.5 Ton with 3 ton air handler seemed to be the consistent combo. I have the AHRI from the Bryant if you care.

I am going with the Lennox XP14 with the variable air handler.

The company is going to run a new lineset / provide manual J and D / new pad / _complete_ new duct system / 16 MERV filter / 10 yr P&L labor warranty from Lennox.

Total system cost is $8k before rebates.

Any idea if this unit (or other comparable unit) requires a hard start? Sales guy seemed to think it was unnecessary unless you were trying to overcome some other problem (lineset over 100' I believe).

Thanks again for all the input in this thread.

abem

look at the numbers between Rheem and Lennox XP14.

The Lennox can only be described as mediocre.

1292347 Active Systems XP14 SERIES LENNOX INDUSTRIES, INC. XP14-030-230* CBX32MV-036*+TDR 28400 12.50 15.00 27000 8.50 16000

RHEEM MANUFACTURING COMPANY RPQL-030JEZ RHKL-HM3617+RCSL-H*3617 30000 13.00 15.50 29000 9.00 18300

plus you get electronic demand defrost which eliminates unnecessary and nuisance defrost calls.

pay close attention to the BTUs produced both cooling and heating plus HSPF heating efficiency. these are not minor differences.

IMO

Thanks for the info, I called my dealer (he deals Trane as well) and we came up with this (looks to be a popular combo):

1382160 XL15i Trane 4TWX5030A1 4TEE3F39A1 30000 13.00 15.75 30000 9.00 18000

Difference is $100 so I'm going with the Trane.

good choice. much better than a Lennox.

you do want Trane's 803 or HW equivalent stat.

even better would be HW VP IAQ stat that has "DOD" dehumidify on demand feature.

IMO

Thanks again everyone, indeed it will be the IAQ stat and will be installed before the end of May.

I'll create a new thread to share my exp.

Abe