what's wrong with the current walkin pantry closet/ doesn't make sense to pay for removal and then need pantry/storage space and endup with a diagonal set up all over again. if your current pantry is acceptable for you then leave it. don't care for the drawings of the new plan but the dimensions of your space would help deciphering why it looks so cramped.... and obviously the end of the sink run with a couple legs yet not reaching critical mass to really be an island is curious. there's a better plan for your space than this.

I agree that it looks extremely cramped, especially between the island and the ovens. Islands are great in the right space, but not if you have to compromise clearances. So a floorplan with measurements would be extremely helpful.

Looks pretty crowded, but I'm with the others in saying we need a floorplan, drawn to scale (graph paper works well) to really judge how it might work.

From what I can see, the layout needs to be left well enough alone. That wholesale tweaking in order to be able to fit in an island isn't helping the flow or your budget. If you do mostly what you have, but maybe do a small portable island instead of the honking big inappropriate island, you can probably fit inset into your budget. Moving the plumbing to the island, adding the cabinet pantry---all of that is your inset money. And it doesn't make the kitchen better at all.

I agree with the previous posters that the island is just too much. Please post something with measurements - get graph paper at Walgreens or wherever, it'll really help.

I agree with your decision to forego inset cabinetry. Your kitchen does not look large enough to forego the added storage space of frameless cabinetry, and there are plenty of places in your kitchen to spend the money you'd otherwise spend on inset cabinets. In addition, the sense I am getting from your photos is that the rest of your house isn't particularly traditional, so I'm not sure inset fits with the rest of your house anyway.

If you keep this new layout, I would flip the range w/ the Walloven.
I would prefer the traffic to go between sink/island and wall oven than range and sink/island.
And put wall pantries on the traffic-side wall.
Ditto: need numbers to scale.

Amanda

Everyone, thanks so much for your input!!! You have affirmed my "gut" reaction to this design. I'm working on creating a layout to post. But I can tell you the current kitchen is 11ft x 13ft.

My current cabinet space is 11 ft on the long wall (left side of drawing) and 6 ft on the short wall (rt side of drawing)

Right now there is about 7 ft of "walking" space between the kitchen and the eating area. So this design proposes the island moving out into that space a bit to provide for island seating. I have 4 kids so I just wanted to still have island seating for them if possible. Other kitchens in the neighborhood come out into that space more than my current one does.

Thanks again and keep them coming! I'm getting another cabinet person out next week and my decorator is going to help with the design as well. She didn't have any input into the current one.

I'll see if I can get a layout posted shortly!

Oh and here is a photo of my living room which is "open" to the kitchen. This gives you a feel of my "style". I live in land locked Tennessee but yearn for oceanside : )

And here is looking back towards the kitchen/eating area

Is the island blocking the path between cooktop and ovens? I know that everybody thinks they need an island instead of a (dated) peninsula, but there are some really neat designs with peninsulas.

The entire counter run that occupies the corner seems very "buried" or "submerged" between all the full depth tall elements and I don't think it will be user friendly.

I think a better design would be to do a "wall of tall" and have an open ended run of counter on the other leg of the L.

I can see that maybe the reasoning behind moving the pantry out of the corner is to give you a landing spot for using the fridge- you know, a place to set down the glass while you pour the tea? I went from a corner pantry to cabinet pantry and it has been fine...love the countertop space more.
As for the island, I tend to agree with the others. But without dimensions it's hard to say. If it is too tight for an island, I would leave the peninsula and shave off the raised bar...this would give you the look from your inspiration pic. Maybe get a movable island table (they make really cute ones!) I'm excited to watch your progress!

Palimpsest, I totally agree about the corner being buried...don't like that part at all.

Does it make sense (aesthetically and otherwise) to have the wall ovens over beside the cooktop? Next to the opening into the dining room?

Is there a better place for the fridge? Its driving me crazy where it is in this design.

Sorry about the quality of this....I don't really know what I'm doing with this floor plan program.

But these measurements are fairly close. This is the current kitchen.

Well, I definitely like the old floorplan better than the new design. At 13 ft wide, an island is going to work best if you don't have cabinets on one side of the room, or have only shallow cabinets. Basically, if you have 2 ft of cabs on both sides, and even the skinniest 2 ft wide island, plus 4 inches of counter overhang, you have less than 7 ft for the two aisles. It can be done, but it's not great if there are 2 cooks, foot traffic to the dining room or refrigerator, etc. And the proposed island looks wider than 2 ft, which just crowds the aisles more.

Peninsulas were popular in and work well in homes of a certain vintage, and for all that they are not currently in vogue, they work really well. I would keep the peninsula, but look into moving the range further away from the dining room door. I couldn't tell from the pics whether the sink was in the corner by the peninsula, on the wall cabinet run or on the peninsula. I was thinking it would work best on the peninsula. I might also eliminate the bar, and have the peninsula at a single level. Raised bars are "out", but it's more important for you to weigh the value of blocking views of your dirty dishes and working kitchen against having more use friendly seating and more usable work area.

I am not, however, a layout guru of any sort, so take this with a grain of salt.

Someone proposed this before: Can you put a table or mock-up of an island in your current kitchen and see how it would work?

Layout gurus do much better at this kind of thing, but my only comment would be in relation to what nosoccermom mentioned about having to walk around the island to get from the stove to the oven. I can't tell you how often I sear on the stove and finish something in the oven. Carrying a hot pan around the island to stick it in an oven wouldn't work for me.

Good luck! I'm sure you'll settle on the perfect layout.

I've been playing with layouts and did actual measurements of the space and a few appliances (but they all are being replaced)

Is 3 feet around the island appropriate or is that tight??? I really can't get a feel for it. Can anyone measure the walking space around their island?

I realized the most "space" in my kitchen is the corner walls, so I shifted everything over there.

I would love to have an island if possible. This one is 36 inches wide. I was thinking it could house the dishwasher and a drawer microwave but not exactly sure where. I feel like my appliances are more in sync space wise. The kids will be hitting the fridge and sink the most.

I wasn't sure what size I'll need for pantry so I drew up two options. I like the idea of it next to the fridge so it helps "conceal" the fridge with a deeper cabinet but it might be too small?

Thoughts about this one?

I would move the WO to next to fridge, making the pantry wall just 12" deep. Now you have more aisle space.
(I had a 28" "doorway: between peninsula and fireplace, so now I lean the other way: never too much walking-by-space).
You may even be able to fit in more island seating. see friend's kitchen:

I use my range/wo differently from sailorgirl, using ovens mainly for baking. so putting the WO in front of the big span of the island = great space to roll out dough/cookies and turn around and plop it into the oven.

Kristin's shallow pantries allowing island seating:

Here is a link that might be useful: kristin's narrow but fit in island seating w/ 12

People have 36" between counter and island but I think it is too tight, particularly with the refrigerator opening into that aisle. The island could be just as functional at 30" and even pretty functional at 27"

Huango, thanks for showing me Kristin's kitchen & pantry! I love that idea!!

Should the increased space be equal on either side of the island or more on the appliance side or more on the pantry side?

Also thoughts about sink on island. Should it be across from the cooktop or across from the cabinets/fridge? Right now I put the DW across from the fridge.

THANKS!!! I'm starting to feel better about this project now ; )

What about a peninsula coming from the right making a U shape? Left wall, all pantry and dish storage, maybe dish hutch look? Bottom of peninsula, DW on end close to dish storage, then sink. Cooktop on right side of U. Top of U fridge next to doorway, then wall ovens, then use that corner for appliance garage.

You can build the MW into the pantry side, like a lift up door with a pull out shelf next to it for a landing zone. Or just an open bit of counter. You can probably keep it at 12-18 inches deep, depending on the MW and how you want the pantry.

If your sink is across from the cook top, you really don't have any prep space next to it. So, you have to prep on the island, then walk around to wash it. Also, what if someone is standing at the sink and someone else at the cooktop?
Also, with the layout you have now, a lot of the prepping will be next to your cooktop and probably not on the island.

I just worked a presentation in a million dollar home and it had 36" between counters. It didn't seem too cramped but I was the only one in there and it was just on display and not with kids. In my own home one side of my island has clearance at 36" and it is fine for me. Of course a little more is better but it's definitely adequate. I would say it is the minimum you would want to do but it would work fine in the last post of your layout.

As suggested if you can reduce the width of the island I think that would be a good idea. That way I think you would feel better about it. Could you take about 4 inches off of it? My kitchen island is only 33.5 and feels a lot bigger. I was surprised when I measured it. You will only need about 24-27" of depth to house the DW and drawer microwave so if you were to have a 32 or 33 inch island you could put them in there. I think you should keep the island. It will give you lots more storage and it is an excellent work space. Maybe you could put the microwave on the very end of the island but then you may have to move the sink. FYI, I took my island sink out when we remodeled the kitchen. I don't miss it a bit and love having the extra space on the island. Sorry I couldn't scroll back up to see if that is your only sink. But if it is a second one, I'd give that some serious consideration whether it is worth it to keep or not.

You are trying to cram way too much into too small a space. You'd be better off with a range and keeping the pantry. Everything you've proposed is created more obstacles to working in the space and is less efficient that what you have currently.

You would get much more help if you actually drew the space out on graph paper. I find your diagram very hard to read and it doesn't include the adjacent spaces and the doorways and traffic patterns through the space.

Williamsem, thanks for your suggestion but I really would love an island and not a peninsula. But I'll consider what you suggest.

nosoccermom, my hopes for the island is more for entertainment & gathering space. So probably not a lot of prep on it.

gr8day. I did reduce the width of the island and it gave me more space on both sides. That is my only sink so it has to stay ; ) Thanks for your input, very helpful!

Here is an updated plan with a more narrow island, 20"(could go more shallow?) pantry wall. This created 4 ft walking space on one side and 40 inches on other side.

My last post:
- I really like this layout.
- Idea: face the DW on the pantry side, so that you don't have to choose between opening the DW or the fridge at the same time (used by different people). And you can put the dishes in the pantry, because you don't have that much storage on the fridge side.
- since your new prep area will be to the Right of the range, I would not put in the angled upper cabinet in the corner. I recommend the 90degree upper cabinet, so that you don't have a cabinet in your face.

Do you have a mudroom?
Where will things "land" when you come in from the garage?
Will your island be a dumping ground?

g'night.
back to sanding my butcherblock (that got scratched by marble backsplash install)
Amanda

Your island looks like it interferes with the pathway to the stairs and it's too close to the table. It's especially too close if you're going to try to have seating at both. Pick one or the other.

For an only sink, it should NEVER EVER be located at the end of an island. You need a minimum of 18" of landing space on one side and 24" to the other for a cleanup station. If that sink is the only sink in the plan, then you want a minimum of 36" of prep space to one side of the sink and the 24" DW to the other. In that last plan, there is no room to prep anywhere, and no real room to cook either.

A better diagram of the entire space as a whole would help others to help you. With just the pics and your diagram, I'm afraid that I agree that the original layout is much more functional. That doesn't mean that a different layout couldn't be better, just that none so far have been it.

Maybe you could move the sink to another location so you would have some work space to the sides of it. I know when I wash off chicken/vegetables and need to lay it somewhere I love having the space between my cooktop and sink to put it. I seem to work there all the time, even though I have the island behind me that is where I get stuff out of the fridge and place as I am going to need them. Also when making cookies I use the space to the side of the sink and the island to roll out dough and put the cookie sheets, it's so handy with it being right behind me and keeps them out of my mixing working space.

Maybe you could view some pictures on Houzz that have similar layouts with a minimum sized island to house your appliances. It may be worth looking into to have a range. There are some pretty ones that are show pieces these days. Frees up a lot of valuable space in the kitchen.

You're doing good, keep plugging away at it and it will all come together in the end!

me again : ) I went to Houzz.com and typed in narrow kitchen islands and a whole bunch of really neat kitchens popped up that I found was much easier to visualize. Maybe you could take a peek and see what you think. They show a lot of the kitchen which might be useful for layout options as well. Good luck!

gr8day...thanks so much! I'm going to dig around Houzz some more. I looked last night and found several kitchens that looked very similar to this direction. I've already moved the sink (and actually moved the WO again) but I"m going to mull it over some more and I'll post a new layout. I REALLY appreciate your encouragement!!! :)

gr8day...thanks so much! I'm going to dig around Houzz some more. I looked last night and found several kitchens that looked very similar to this direction. I've already moved the sink (and actually moved the WO again) but I"m going to mull it over some more and I'll post a new layout. I REALLY appreciate your encouragement!!! :)

I have been thinking about all the comments made so far. And its been great getting the feedback. I'm sorry I have't had a chance to draw this on graph paper but hopefully you can read this layout ok. It show the rooms connected to the kitchen.

I moved the sink to the long wall. So that whole side & corner of the kitchen is now counter tops. I do have the microwave right behind the sink but it could easily go beside the sink.

The fridge & WO is now on the same wall with a wall pantry between. Right now the wall pantry is 24in deep as I was hoping to have the pull out drawers to maximize storage.

I hope to put the drawer microwave in the island across from the fridge.

The walking space on the aisles is now 42" on the side going to the Dining room. Its 40 inches between sink & island and it is smaller at 36" between cooktop and end of island.

The island is now 7 feet long and 28 inches wide. Is that too narrow to be worth while. Main purpose of island is entertaining/gathering. For parties, a buffet for food.

So what do y'all think about this now. I know there were a few comments about keeping the peninsula and corner pantry but I'm just not convinced that is best route. But thanks for the input and if you feel strongly about that tell me about why.

Thank you thank you!!!

Wow that looks great! Honestly? I think you could sacrifice on either side of the island an inch and a half and add three inches to the island and you would never miss it in the aisle but it would make a huge difference in the island. That is a good size island then at 31 x 7. Do it! I'm the go for it type!!! : )))

You have created a Barrier Island. A Gardenweb classic. I should know, I have one!

Think I would flip the fridge and the wall ovens. Walk through the process of getting something out of the fridge, over to the sink to wash it, then cut, then put in the pan. The whole shebang is easier if the fridge is closer to the sink.

I am loving your new island plan and also like what SaraKat said about adding the 3 inches by borrowing an inch and a half from each side of the aisles, you would never miss that. You will love having an island and I believe you have plenty of space for one. It would be an awful lot of open space not to have something in the middle without it. I really do think you are doing the right thing to stick with your island plan. I only have max 39 1/2" aisle in my kitchen and at one spot there is only 29 1/2" at the end of the island and end of a curved in cabinet. No one stands there and you would not even notice it because it immediately gets bigger after passing that tight spot.

I'm so excited for you, the island and the aisles are a good size. But do increase the island that 3 inches if you can possibly do that. But if you can't it will still be fine. ...I really liked the photos I saw on Houzz with the more narrow islands. Good luck and enjoy your new kitchen when it's all finished!

This looks tight even without guests milling around. Shouldn't the kitchen perform its main function first, which is to store food, cook food, and clean up afterwards, before worrying about whether you can add a secondary purpose of making it a hangout spot? Are you sure you'll enjoy having people in the kitchen while you cook? Sometimes they just get in the way. Is it worth being cramped for three meals a day every day so you can serve buffet-style...how often?

I would start by shortening the island on the prep end and getting it out of your traffic patterns. You have plenty of prep room between the sink and stove now. Also, put the DW to the right of the sink so you're not dripping on the floor.

I know you really want an island. But I still want to propose a U shape, feel free to ignore. I've learned a lot over the past almost year, so I wanted to take a go at this. I'm sure the experts can make it better if you like the concept.

I assume you will have pots/pans under the cooktop, so there should be room for everything else.

wiliamsem: thank you for drawing that up! Its definitely worth considering. I just did a 3-D of my own drawing and I am concerned about the "tightness".

On your layout does it matter if the room is actually 13.6 across and 11 (plus a some if moving into the eating area)

I think your drawing is 14x17?

THANK YOU!!!

You're welcome! I enjoy logic puzzles, keeps my brain busy.

I did my best based on the posted drawings, but the 6 inches shouldn't be a problem. Can you post exactly how much room on the top wall from the left wall to the outside of the door trim, then the measurement of the doorway including trim, then from the trim to the right wall?

The cabinets on the left wall could easily be stopped at the end of the wall, I neglected to write down that dimension to put in. Or you can shorten the pantry section. Or split the difference. Or you can wrap the cabinet around the corner if there is room for extra storage and countertop.

I have a new set of drawings from another cabinet maker. He is still "tweaking" things. He hasn't finished the island and I'm not crazy about having a corner cabinet on the angle. I suggested moving the appliance garage to the wall between the 2 pantries....or even in the pantry?

DW is in end of island across from sink.
Microwave also in island

What do y'all think???

Oh, and I know there was lots of push back on the island but now 2 designers and 2 cabinet makers have suggested it???

put your dishwasher next to your sink.

I like the pantry cabinet next to the oven stack,but not so much next to the fridge.Eliminate the garage in the corner by the sink and the pantry next to fridge.With counter next to fridge you'll gain the deep bit of counter created from side of fridge and panel......put the items you would "garage" in that area....not on view when pushed back. Along the back of island eliminate the cabinets along 3 or 4 feet at the furthur down or portion away from top of kitchen.Allow for stools that tuck under as well as some overhang on bottom end of island.I think you'd use that part of island in that way.This is a kitchen for a 2nd sink and reduce the existing sink in size a bit so the dishwasher fits next to it.Imagine how you and your household members would use the space/what type of cooking/activities occurr and think of the options for 2nd sink placement.

When customers ask for islands, they get islands. When you have salesmen at the helm rather than actual designers. An actual designer would show you the positives and negatives of your choice. You're dealing with cabinet sales people here. Island=more money for them.

An island totally disrupts the traffic flow as pictured. Picture in your mind gathering the ingredients for your Sunday morning breakfast and then cooking it. You will be running rings around that BARRIER. It's hurting your layout, not helping it. If you added a prep sink and moved the fridge to the cooking side, and made the entire other side shallow pantries, then it could work and not be too crowded.

Or the peninsula worked too. An island, not so much. At least the ones that you've been given.

OP, I think you should back up a couple of steps. What do you hate about your current kitchen? What really works for you? Why is it about an island that appeals to you?

In your first post, your wrote "I got the KD plans, and they're not exciting me". The KD should be giving you what YOU want, not trying to convince you to live what he/she wants.

I think a U-shap, like williamsem showed, could be a terrific option for you. The walkway is clear; the zones are functional, and the space is open and inviting. Add a table-height counter on the sink side, and you have a place for folks to sit, eat, visit with you while you cook, do homework, or put out a buffet.

I'm not so good at reading plans but I have two thoughts. One goes along with what sumac said ... the dishwasher NEEDS to be next to the sink. The only time I would say that isn't the case is if a person really wanted a dishwasher and there was no possible way to fit it in otherwise. I don't even actually see the dishwasher in that plan. I hope it's not in the island behind the sink....

Also, like I said I'm not good at reading plans so maybe I'm missing something, but are there windows in this space? If so, where are they? It appears that the sink has cabinetry over it so I'm guessing they aren't there. It's not a requirement that a sink be in front of the window, but I think something should be.

"The KD should be giving you what YOU want"

Oh yes, that issue. While I will always draw out a kitchen the way the client asks me to, I am not at all shy about telling them---SHOWING them---why what they want doesn't work. Making the customer happy by giving them what they want is a disservice if what they want is dysfunctional. It can get you the sale though. If that's all you care about. I care about more than that. I care about the years of dinner making and homework working and family interactions that you have ahead of you. I care about making that the best that it can be within the confines of your architecture. A cabinet salesperson wants to get the sale.

Small tangent here..... I was at a cabinett seminar at an (American!) production plant yesterday. We were discussing those complicated fold out pantries and why we as designers dislike them so much. (They break, they don't hold much, etc.) Well, one guy said he LOVED them. When I asked him why on earth would he love something for which there were much better choices, he said, "It's a instant $2500 upgrade to a kitchen.". THAT is the difference between a designer and a cabinet sales person.

I think you're dealing with people who are either less well trained in how to create functionality, or who don't care about functionality, or who don't want to "create waves" with you so as to get the sale.

The island---as pictured---doesn't work in your space. That's not saying that an island in the space couldn't work. It's just saying that none of the suggested ones would. Now, Holly's suggestion to move the fridge to the cooktop side and add the prep sink could work. But, at the expense of crowding the cooktop. The BEST suggestion so far has been the peninsula.

along the line of thinking here; have you priced out the demolition of your pantry closet and then the repurchase of the 2 pantry cabinets which presumably is a replacement?

""The KD should be giving you what YOU want"

Oh yes, that issue. While I will always draw out a kitchen the way the client asks me to, I am not at all shy about telling them---SHOWING them---why what they want doesn't work. Making the customer happy by giving them what they want is a disservice if what they want is dysfunctional."

I agree completely, and I didn't state it very well. In the OP's case, she wants and island, and the KD gave her an island, but it seems apparent that the island presented isn't even close to the right choice for the space. I guess I would like to see the OP's KD ask a lot of questions to determine what the OP's actual needs are, well past simply "I want an island".

I haven't worked with a KD - I went straight to a cabinet maker with very specific plans. He has offered a few suggestions, and I don't know for sure what he would have done if I had come to him with a plan that made no sense - but so far in my dealings with him, it seems important to him that I am happy with the end result.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone!

I'm re-examining the island idea.

I want to answer some questions/points that have been raised.

The current "cabinet guy" is also a kitchen designer and my decorator works with him on many, many projects. They both are creative and I enjoy them very much.
When he met me he had me walk around the kitchen and show him what I usually do. He asked me what we cook the most. Where we lay our stuff when we come in the garage door....we come in from our garage 99% of the time.

The Dishwasher...yes I agree it needs to be next to the sink. The plan shows a double sided sink but we want a single bowl, stainless. I would like to have the dishwasher over there.

The two pantries...I have 4 kids...so I felt I needed quite a bit of pantry space. I HATE my current pantry...stuff is so high/deep and it takes up so much space!

What I don't like about my current kitchen?
Well I think its rather ugly. The cabinets are builder grade. The appliances are awful (DW, oven, cooktop). It has limited cabinet space. I want more cabinet space. I have very little storage for serving pieces, etc.
I don't prefer bar height seating. I much prefer counter height. I think it is so much more comfortable and I like have one large piece of counter top. I'm drawn to an "island" because I see it being a gathering spot while entertaining and I like having it for my 4 kids to have breakfast & lunch.

And no there are no windows. This is an "interior" kitchen. Up at the top are photos of the current kitchen and also there is a drawing showing the other rooms that are connected.

The Ushape kitchen. I think could be an option....however...it seems odd to walk in the door from the garage and there is a long counter immediately on the right??? Also there is no counter seating with that layout. I really love having my 4 kids being able to eat at the counter for breakfast & lunch. But you would walk in and right into seating....doesn't work.

BTW....no one (Cabinet person/designer/KD) is pushing their layout on me. I asked for certain things and they have made suggestions or pushed back on some things. I'm not shy about asking for what I want but I'm also not closed off to hearing opinions of those who do this everyday.

Please keep the ideas coming!!!