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Cabinets installed before Hardwood floors in KItchen?

14 years ago

Just wondering if it makes sense that our builder has the cabinets being installed before the hardwood in the kitchen. The cabinet maker said it is because the hardwood is engineered vs. unfinished hardwood?

I don't know anything about this, but it doesn't make sense to me! Any advice would be most appreciated!!!!

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Comments (8)

glennsfc
14 years ago
With engineered prefinished you have a finished product that could be easily damaged during the rest of the construction phase, whereas with an unfinished product the finishing after the construction phase is complete removes any damage that might have ocurred during construction.
gillylily
Original Author
14 years ago
Thanks for the explanation.. So this is typical? Does it matter with appliance installation (more specifically, the dishwasher), in that it will not be flush with the floor? I have heard of putting a rubber mat of some sort underneath to allow for it to be flush... Again, I don't know anything about this, but trying to understand the logistics.
thanks again!
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It's not difficult to saw out flooring at the toekick if it needs to be removed. And any water event that damages flooring will certainly damage the subfloor, or the plywood that the cabinets should be sitting on. Standard counter heights and cabinet alignment heights in kitchen design are all designed to begin at 0 as the finished floor height. Depending on the design, this can be an issue with tall cabinetry not being tall enough for the ceiling and needing to add a horizontal filler for the molding planned for it and the other cabinets. It all starts at the finished floor level. Appliances like DW's need the full 34.5 height or you may be restricted to only models that can adjust to much shorter heights. Slide in ranges are especially problematical because they aren't very adjustable and depend on the cabinets being the standard 34.5 above the finished floor. That's why plywood has to go under the cabinets and you have to know the thickness of the flooring being used during the design phase. Any other issues with doing the cabinets first mostly amount to the amount of damage that the flooring guys can inflict on the cabinets. Which can be considerable if a sander gets away from them. It's much easier to repair a hole in the drywall than it is one in the side of a cabinet. That has to actually be replaced.
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Of course the easiest way to do what you want to do is to install a different width in the kitchen and use something to act as a transition between the two floors. If the kitchen section will be at the same finished height and you can and want to weave new into the old, then you will have to have oak milled to your 2 1/2" size. Not impossible, but will cost more than factory runs at the usual widths. I don't have pics for you, so I hope someone does and can post them for you.
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Thanks Charles -- I did look at the guidelines that you mentioned. However, it refers to gaps 'at completion' of the job and not within the 1 year warranty period. Everything I've read indicates that installing hardwood without controlling the temp / humidity for what the living conditions will be is a big no no. Re: your comment about the 'difference in moisture content of the wood floor & subfloor' -- if they are both swollen from the high humidity, then they would both shrink under the normal living conditions right? Do they both shrink at the same rate, etc? There are numerous gaps, face checking (cracks on the tops of boards -- some with the grain and some against the grain), and gaps under the baseboards (where I can easily insert a penny). I thought this was a GREAT article that directly discusses the topic of installing with no HVAC: http://www.floordaily.net/floorfocus/challenges_involved_with_installing_hardwood_wood.aspx I noticed many installers recommended waiting or turning down the job if necessary. It sounds like my builder and the installer both made a bad decision. So, isn't this something their insurance would cover? I just want my floor fixed -- not with a band-aid for a short term solution (until the warranty runs out). I just want a good quality floor and to enjoy our new home. Sigh.........
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Are you OK with the complete voiding of any/all warranties because the contractor isn't up to par? I can guarantee this person is NOT a wood 'pro'. They sound like some dude who swings a hammer. As G & S stated, the MOISTURE readings of the substrate AND the wood flooring are what tell you it is 'allowed'. Go ahead and send this 'dude' an email stating you want all the moisture readings (MC content) documented by the contractor and sent to you via email. You want the readings sent to you at time of deliver (both subfloor and wood planks...10% of the planks will be tested randomly as well as multiple spots on the floor as well). You also expect MC ratings of the wood at time of installation (which should be a different day). You also want readings at time of 'finishing'. You will also expect a completed document that gives the day's weather and humidity readings both inside and out. I can guarantee you the 'dude' isn't going to know what any of this means...which is why you want it. If s/he balks at this, then tell them installation will occur when the documentation is done...not before. And then be prepared to hire another wood flooring installer...cause this one is probably going to 'walk'.
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glennsfc
14 years ago
It is typical, but sometimes customers insist that the floor go in first.

When cabinets go in first what we usually see is a plywood base of the same thickness as the finished flooring installed where the cabinets will be placed. That way the cabinets are at the correct height after the floor goes in. This also takes care of what goes under the dishwasher, stove and any other built-in kitchen appliance. You can paint or finish (seal) the plywood where the dishwasher will go (or the entire plywood base for that matter) to help prevent damage for future leaks in the plumbing which might occur.

If the cabinets are still to go in, then discuss this with the cabinet maker and the builder.
gillylily
Original Author
14 years ago
Thank you glennsfc. My only area of concern is will the cab. get damaged during the flooring installation?

OUr builder did say the hardwood will be installed under the dishwasher and fridge, just not under the cabs. Thanks for giving me a "user friendly" explanation.... I really appreciate you taking the time!
glennsfc
14 years ago
Well...do you want to risk damage to your flooring?...or damage to your cabinets?

A careful installer is not going to wreck your cabinets. However, if you have no say at all in who the builder hires for the floor work, then you might have some worries in that department.

I think either way is fine, but doing the floor first does open the floor to damage from all those 'trades' that will be marching through your kitchen...you know, plumbers, drywall installers, trim carpenters, countertop installers,...and, of course, electricians.

Don't forget the appliance delivery people! What a disaster they can cause! If you don't take steps to protect your new floor from compression damage...from moving heavy appliances across your new floor or even pushing it into place...how many times have I seen this type of damage to new floors!
msgreatdeals
14 years ago
We installed prefinish wood flooring after the cabinets were in and I'm glad I did. Would do it again that way.
gillylily
Original Author
14 years ago
How long ago did you install the floors? Someone in the business mentioned to me today that down the road as the floors settle there may be an unevenness in the floors between the cabinets and the floors.. As i mentioned earlier this is all so foreign to me and just trying to understand all of this and educate myself as best as I can!

So msgreatdeals- you don't have any issues of where the cabs meet the floor?
Thanks for your input!
glennsfc
14 years ago
"Someone in the business mentioned to me today that down the road as the floors settle there may be an unevenness in the floors between the cabinets and the floors."

Baloney.

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