Thanks, Bob. Very interesting read. One question for you on stainless, it's not as good a conductor, electrically or thermally, as copper or aluminum. If the plumbing in refrig/cooling/heating systems changes to stainless, what'll the implications be? How will they plan on welding/soldering it? Silver solder or similar won't work for higher pressures, will it? Maybe everything will need to be mig or tig welded, or perhaps compression fittings? Stainless probably isn't good for that, either....?

Hello Bob, Does your online course come with a degree? :)

The questions this year seem to have a theme of DIY. I am working on a new FAQ. This is the start of it.

If you want a certificate, I sure we can find one suitable for framing, when I get done. The problem will be in certifying you have retained the knowledge.

I have joined SS with silver solder. It was a regularly produced part. The finished part was a tube connected to a mounting block.

Pffffffffft, cough, cough, pfffft, pffft, cough,,wheeeeew,,,,, pfffffffft, pffft, pfft, cough, wheeeeew
Do bogart that joint my friennnnd,,,,, hand it overrr,,, to me. :-)

Hey, who took my bag o' weed! I want that shiet back!

"Blood goes from blue to red, as it passes thru a vein."
- No way. I am not in the medical profession but I know ignorance when I read it (sorry, Bob - I don't mean to pile on. I enjoy reading your posts and I respect your opinions).

I googled "blue blood" and found this at GlobalClassroom.org:

"First thing: Blood is *never* blue. Blood is described as dark red (venous) or bright red (arterial). Our veins look blue because we are looking at them *through* our skin. The blood inside them is dark red and it doesn't reflect light very well. The blood you see when you get hurt is usually venous blood. Arterial blood comes out in spurts. It spurts every time the heart beats. I hope you never see that."

Mr. bob brown, I don't know how to read.

Hello garyg,
I am wrong by definition of Google. I can't remember where I heard my belief. Maybe in Biology class. You have reinforced my basic claims in HVAC with this contradiction.

Thank you.

I comment against SEER and other topics. Several experienced people claim I am wrong. This is the same thing. Once you learn a topic, it is very difficult to unlearn what you believe is truth.

When I read your post, I immediately thought I was right and you were wrong. I Googled to check my truth. I was wrong.

Bob:

I have learned a lot about HVAC from reading this forum. I am a mech engineer by education, but my one HVAC class in the 80's was pretty much just an introduction to the field. It is interesting to read your opinions, experiences, and suggestions. It is also interesting to read other people's counter-arguments but I think the personal attacks are out-of-line. One can make a counter argument without resorting to throwing punches below the belt. It occurs more on this forum, in my opinion, than in the fireplaces forum which I also visit. Maybe there are more techs or experts on this forum which is the reason for the clashes.

I apologize for the use of the word "ignorance" in my post - too strong of a word to be used.

As Marco (daft punk) always ends his posts.....Peace.

Well, I hope your HVAC knowledge is better than your medical knowledge...

The equipment you worked on may have had millions of volts... but MEV usually indicates "milli- electron volts" - little itty-bitty voltages.

Hearts don't compress blood, nor do they add oxygen. Blood is mostly water, which is effectively incompressible, and oxygen is added by the lungs.

Blood goes from blue (or dark red) to red, when it trades it's CO2 for Oxygen in the lungs, not the veins. It goes from red to blue in the capillaries. It remains a liquid the whole time (thankfully!)

Sometimes analogies just aren't very good. It's OK to talk in real terms!

Hello grasshopper, go back to your dog kennel. (spca)

MEV is a term recognized worldwide since the 1960's. It is defined as 'million electron volts' as found in cancer radiation treatment machines. This is very high powered microwave zappers that kill cancer growths on the human body. The term is used to define the power capability of such machines made by several international companies.

If you want to bash me check your facts or ask for clarification (not proof)

I already admitted that blood does not change colors, why are you continuing to beat the dead horse. Red is the beginning and ending color of blood. Blue is the color we see thru the filter of skin.

An explanation of the HVAC cycle that is expressed in terms that anyone can understand is needed to demystify the prevailing attitude that only experts work on HVAC. Certain parts of the job now require a base amount of training to legally do, but the knowledge is simple to learn. Knowledge is the key to success. When Betty and Barney Rubble understand, then oppurtunistic contractors will find they cannot screw the public any more.

I find this to be a major problem in Texas. There is a well defined control system to prevent contractors from screwing the public, but it does not work. This is part of the original disagreement between Mr. HVAC and I. The other major disagreement with a different person is the quality of certain brands. I do not believe any brand is superiour. I think brand recognition is superiour, which drives the cost of certain brands. I also understand the cost structure of all manufacturing. The more that is spent the higher the final price. Real simple, but difficult to realize. All major brands pay the same price for thier basic materials. The difference in price is in advertizing costs. The more you spend the more the unit cost. I still respect other viewpoints made by both people.

I guess you are another person that learned something and cannot relearn when science changes.

GO somewhere else and find someone else to bash. If you have positive comments to post to the forum, do so. I accept all critism and appologize when needed. Very few posters will appologize when they are found to be wrong. Differences of opinion can be found everwhere you go.

My job on this forum, is to help give answers. If you find me wrong and can prove it, please feel free to do so. I want to know where I am wrong. Opinion is not a definion that I recognize as wrong.

When I taught electronics, I always told my students that I was not the final authority on any topic. My job was to teach how to find a solution from the facts I presented. I taught beginning ac-dc theory to industrial controls, which included PLC and robotics programming. This is just another thing I did to keep busy. I taught for the largest trade school in the world(outside of the US government)

Mr. Brown,

I'm glad you are here trying to help people. However, it doesn't mean no one can critique philosophical posts you put up. MeV really stands for "Mega ElectronVolts", yes millions, however, it does not mean voltage, like 110 or 220. 'Power' is not the same as 'Voltage'. "Voltages in the millions" indicates you don't understand what an eV is. And people should definitely handle D-cells differently than 220 wiring.

Blood DOES change colors, it doesn't just LOOK that way.

Understandable explanations are good; offering gobbledygook doesn't help anyone. A few minutes researching blood or electronvolts on the web will give you all the proof you need.

If you want a soapbox where no one disagrees, try children.

Bob Brown, You started this mess! If you don't want people to critique you so called lesson, then don't post....period.

In this case I am talking to children. Sorry if the truth hurts.

Once again faulty circular logic is used in attempts to prove faulty logic.

Using a battery is a good analogy of what it takes to kill someone with voltage. If I can feel 12vdc, then that is a critical voltage. 12vdc batteries are readily available. As to 1.2-1.5 vdc, The analogy was to suggest all voltage should be respected. If you have possibly read previous posts you might remember my comments regarding the dangers to voltage. I warn people to respect voltage.

One early job, I was a bench tech testing medical diagnostic devices. One device was used to induce a shock for an ENG test. The hand held device used a 9vdc battery.

I adjusted the current output 10x times to great. This could have caused heart failure. The current was very low and the device is still available in its latest incarnation.

The point made was to respect all differences of potential. AC or DC, both can kill you.

As to understanding MEV, Yea, it is kinda iffy to a layman. It is difference of potential. It is generated electronically with a frequency. Kinda like an AC generator works. It uses magnetics to shape the power. Kinda like AC voltage.

If it swims like a duck, if it looks like a duck, if it sounds like a duck, the suggested answer one might assume, it may be a duck. It does not have to be a duck, it could be a Mallard? When you twist words to mean something different, try to be accurate.

Once again, I like to know when I am wrong. Critiquing a post is the beginning of making it a FAQ. I expect honest comments, even if they hurt. I do not want to post a FAQ that is wrong or confusing. Once on the web it becomes part of the social makeup of life. I do not want my progenity to read stupid comments I made many years earlier.

PLEASE MAKE HIM STOP!!!! MY HEAD IS HURTING!!!!

I've come to the conclusion this bob brown is just someone who knows enough about air conditioning to be dangerous but he actually gets his jollies by seeing just how many people he can annoy in this forum. And the list is growing folks! Just take a look at all the different times he posts, this man definately has way to much time on his hands. But then when you are late 50's or there abouts and still living home with mommy and dad,,,,,I guess lifes demands are not all that great. No one needs to bash you bob, you're doing it quite well all by yourself.

Um, a Mallard is a duck. So if it is a Mallard, it is a duck.

In regard to Bob's comments

"When I worked for a major medical equipment manufacturer, we had voltages in the millions of volts. (MEV) The self imposed care and handling is the same at all levels. " and " As to understanding MEV, Yea, it is kinda iffy to a layman. It is difference of potential."

he is just ignorant of the subject. An eV (small case "e" is the appropriate spelling) is a unit of energy, it is not a "potential difference" which is used to describe a "voltage".

Specifically, it is the kinetic energy gained by a single electron when it passes through an electrostatic potential difference of one volt, in a vacuum. In other words, it is equal to one volt (1 volt = 1 joule per coulomb) times the charge of a single electron. Thus, one electronvolt is a very small amount of energy equal to approximately 1.6 X 10-19 joules.

No, it really is not "kinda of like AC voltage".

The World According to Bob Brown - jack of all trades, master of all.

HAIL BOB!

"I am working on a new FAQ. This is the start of it"

If youre really making a FAQ for the average HVAC DIYer, why not just compile a list of FAQs and post it then ask the rest of us pros to help you compile said list of questions? THEN, use the most accurate answers in your "official" FAQ list.

im not trying to bash you but i have to offer my opinion....

ok, maybe i am gonna bash you a little but dont take it personally.

this post seems more like another one of your long-winded, self-indulgent "i know it all" preaching posts. it seems to me that with every new thread/reply you compose you seem to have gained knowledge in a different profession.
if you have truly done everything you said youve done you would have to be at least 150 years old OR you change careers as often as i change socks.
There is no ONE MAN that knows everything there is to know in the HVAC trade. anyone that claims to know-all in the hvac trade is full of BS.
I have been a member of this and the "other forum" for quite a while and have contributed to both as well as learned different points of view.
IMO this is a mostly DIY forum which is cool but some of the tech info ive seen posted here shouldnt be shared with the average DIYer.
Info such as diagnosing/tracing electrical circuits for instance...(ive seen you do it bob)
How do you know the guy on the other end isnt a florist or something?
I wouldnt want a florist troubleshooting MY heat strip circuits. I woulnt want him tracing HIS circuits after reading advice that I posted either. If you wanna do that then go ahead and post your TACL license # and insurance info. (his family may need it after he gets himself electrocuted). You might as well just tell him to find a tripped safety switch by touching all the terminals with his bare fingertip and when he hits one that doesnt shock him he found the open circuit.
Bob, id also be interested in seeing some pictures of the work you have done. post a link to them here. i have some on the "other site", check em out.

If you really want to make a FAQ list let us know, i for one would be glad to offer my humble opinion. this thread is pointless. a good tech asks for the opinions of his peers, a hack usually thinks his way is the ONLY way.
which one are you?

Without trying to brag, I have completed several FAQ's, and posted them. I used the same method now as before. When previous FAQ's were posted, I could not get any response from the experts on this site. Not all FAQ's made the cut either. I was not comfortable with the final product. I initiate several ideas every year. Last year it was on the SEER rating system. Another was on system design in modern high ceiling design homes. I offered a FAQ on surge protectors that did not make the final cut. This is ongoing. If you want to participate feel free to do so.

As to electrical troubleshooting, I try to qualify the question. Some people I help and some I refer to a qualified HVAC guy. It depends on the circumstances. As to the dangers of electricity, I have been ridiculed as to my dire warnings. This is a DIY site. After warning about the possible dangers, and if I think someone can do the troubleshooting safely, I will offer help. If you notice most help requires a minimum experience. I do not explain how to do a task if dangerous. I do warn about electricity.

Since you are new to me, If you would trouble yourself to read previous posts, you would easily learn this fact. My basic specialty is forced air HVAC. This is what I am most familiar with. I have extensive experience with small to 100 hp steam boilers. I am familiar with steam as found in Dry Cleaners. I have experience with Evaporative coolers. I have experience with hot water heaters. I do not try to offer more than basic advice to oil or water heat. While I have worked with them, I do not offer much more than common answers. If you notice, I usually preface answers in this area with authorative references.

As to asking for comments, the best comment I received while working on FAQ's was what kind of drugs are you on? The techs on this forum do not like to make constructive comments. Only destructive snide remarks. What kind of tech are you?

(What kind of tech are you?) We are the kind that is tired of listening to your ramblings Bob.

I'm not tired of hearing your info Bob. Perhaps a little weary about your always throwing out your endless qualifications. Just keep giving your good info and don't worry about the slams. Your down to earth info is a lot better than most which include but is not limited to the following: hot air rises and cold air flows down stairs like water---put a curtain over your stairwell---that 20,000.00 is about right for a common switchout---it's more important the person putting in the system than the cost of the system itself---Go geothermal--but dig up that buried treasure to pay for it before you start digging your system in---That Goodman, Lennox, Janitrol, own and own are junk---I'd look into putting in that Carrier Inifinity 47 SEER with the triple clutching compressor and the 5 speed furnace that cost about as much as a new big
Mercedes--- Rip it all out and start over---you'll never be satisified with the status quo but rob a bank to pay for it.
Of course all the folks on here give some good advice. However, I believe your advice is geared more to the folks that are looking for advice and a leg up on what to be expected in cost and labor and looking for the info in a not so techinical read. I also believe you are a Texas located HVAC person and your expertise is in single and 2 story homes with common split systems. Past that, you show your stripes real bad when you offer info.
I thought your info on SEER was great--stay focused

it's more important the person putting in the system than the cost of the system itself- This is true. Installation is everything, assuming the equipment is of good quality.

You're stepping on some toes, pie. But, I wear steel tips.

Why start with a DIY guide to HVAC repair? From your initial post, I'd say you should start with a FAQ on cardio thoracic surgery.

After all, I'm sure many elements of cadiothoracic surgery are easily learned, and the knowledge of plumbing and pumps you relate suggest that tradesman in this field could be supplanted by DIYers easily enough.

Seattle Pioneer

I don't know if this expression is known outside of PA, but Bob likes to stir the pot.

Understood here in Rhode Island.

More like bob likes to "smoke" the pot :-)

Bob,

So what is your understanding now of the world-wide quest for knowledge on the questions of "Is a Mallard a duck?" and "What is a MeV?". I'd like to hear if you think differently now.

BTW, what programming language did you use for the PLC class and what does PLC stand for?

I remember several of your posts from the past & while usually amusing I always pondered in the back of my mind the thought of " I certainly hope the people that read these forums don't take your suggestions to heart as they could be fatal".

I'm going from memory & can only recall a few specifics (but I remember reading many more, I only wish this database kept active posts from the last 5 years) of humorous things you said but later came back & agreed you were taught wrong...

1. You started off a post stating the origination & definition of a "ton" in regard to a refrigeration cycle. You were totally off-base on both the origination & the definition. It was funny & I'm sad to say I don't remember the specifics. Maybe you have that archived somewhere & can repost that.

2. You stated in a previous post that "In my state we have the right to work laws, that allow a HO to do his own work. He needs an inspection and a CFC certificate, but otherwise he does not have to hire a professional."

Wrong, a Right to Work law secures the right of employees to decide for themselves whether or not to join or financially support a union. It has nothing to do w/ a homeowner doing his own work.

3. You said "· Posted by bob_brown (My Page) on
Fri, Feb 17, 06 at 17:58
Luxaire is made in the same plants as Goodman. Luxaire was the heater at one time and Goodman was the AC.".

Wrong again. The responses came back "Bob Brown, where do you get your information? Goodman Manufacturing Company, L.P. ("Goodman") produces a complete line of residential and commercial air conditioning and heating equipment at its three modern, high technology factories, totaling over 1,200,000 square feet in Houston, Texas, Dayton and Fayetteville, Tennessee. Luxaire is owned by York which is owned by Johnson Controls. Manufacturing is done in three facilites, Norman OK, Wichita KS, & Monterey Mexico".

4. I don't remember all the details but I do recall you making the statement that you had worked for 10 years on your parent's HVAC system which was like 20 years old at the time. The consensus among the respondants was that we hoped the system was at least partially operational during that time or your parents would have endured many hot & cold spells over the 10 years you were working on it.

5. There was something about you running an extension cord over several hundred feet (maybe even a few thousand) to a neighbor's house. Again, I don' recall the details but the current requirement & the gauge wire you were using would have resulted in a voltage drop over that distance would have been so substantial the neighbor would have burned up any motors running (i.e. HVAC blowers, etc) and/or the extension cord would have burned. Maybe you can repost that one as well as it was too funny, especially coming from one who had taught electronics at the 2nd largest trade school in the "world".

6. Hello garyg,
I am wrong by definition of Google. I can't remember where I heard my belief. Maybe in Biology class. You have reinforced my basic claims in HVAC with this contradiction.

There are many more of the infamous Bob Brown "remarks" that would have made the Jay Leno's "dumb acts/remarks" as I believed you strayed outside your comfort zone, even though I'm not sure where that is. You yourself, originally stated you were a "self-taught" handyman but somehow that has migrated to a formal education, though what, I'm not sure.

This is really not meant as a "Bob Brown bashing" post, rather just to clear the air that while I think Bob means well, DIYers or professionals should not take as gospel what he says as it could be fatal to your health. If, on the other hand, you see it for what it is worth, it can be quite funny. It's a humorous way to read & laugh at the end of those stressful days.

Bob, if you disagree with any of the assertions made above, please comment. Others that remember more of Bob's infamous comments are welcome to post.

Gee thanks Mike,now Bobs gonna type a 6 page rebutal and kill the bandwith on this server.

I sure did like the statement on Luxaire. It sure was wrong wasn't it. Luxaire, Frazer Johnson are the 2 sister brands. Not Goodman. I can't imagine making that statement, but it appears that I did.

The remaining comments were probably taken out of context. Find the exact words and read them again and again and again and again and again until you can understand, grasshopper.

I was willing to let this thread drop without a lot of additional comments. I had answers for each misquote, but erased them. Probably took about 6 million pages. Get real.

I do appreciate how much wasted time you have spent on researching my comments. It must have taken many hours. Did you learn anything? If any of my students had spent as long as you probably did, They would have understood the various subjects. It is very gratifying that someone reads your messages long after they are finished. Very few people do this, otherwise most of the posts on this site would not exist. Get a life.

Mike, as a personal note, you need help. If you cannot afford it, go to your county health agency and inquire on assistance. Most states help the mentally unstable.

gotta chime in here, keep up the good work brown its too bad the world is loaded with aholes and children.in life you know when you are on to something when people rant and arave like kiddies in a supermarket.

fred1944? Hmmm, I wonder what that 44 stands for,,, pants size maybe? the 19 is his IQ, I'm sure of that, just can't figure out that other number. Well either way, its good to finally see him spelling on the level of a second grader. Keep practicing freddy, oppps I mean fred,, six letters is way to long a word. :-)
Just curious fred,, whats with your fasination with the male rectum? You bring it up in all your posts. Perhaps you should try to find a proctologists forum or maybe a,,, nah,,could it be?!!!

little boy run off to play now

good spelling,, YEAH for fred! :-)

Wow, man, I think I'm floating on the ethereal plane...
I got a lump in my throat. Oh my god I'm choking.
Beep, beep, beep, here comes the dump truck.
Where's Bob the Builder when you need him?
Stop the merry-go-round; I want to get off, say I,
from my high horse.
...
Seems to me we are all on high horses.

Sorry, I think I blew a gasket. No, wait a minute, it must have been the radiant heat sensor. Yeah, that's what it was.

Man I really tried to read some of those posts, but got sick to my stomach. WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE LMFAO

Mr. Brown. Always appreciate your insights and knowledge and earnest desire to help others.
Please let me know if/when you're ever in the Washington DC area. I sure would benefit from your expertise. Mugs

"WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE LMFAO"
It would appear what is wrong with us is a certain individual who should at this point remain nameless.
The grave is dug, the hole back filled, time to put away the shovels.

Mr. Brown. Always appreciate your insights and knowledge and earnest desire to help others.
Please let me know if/when you're ever in the Houston--Corpus Christi Texas area. I sure would benefit from your expertise. Thanks

Don't go jumping to conclusions. Some of us just like to inject a little humor. (Some don't.) If you thought my humor was directed, it wasn't. It was thrown as a blanket.