andre

save 20% heating costs on the same size 16i vs 15i? absolute nonsense!

1106628 Discontinued Systems XL16I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX6036B1 4TEE3F40B1 36800 12.30 17.00 33200 9.20 22200 1 HRCU-A-CB Yes 234 658

3187915 Active Systems XL16I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX6036C1 4TEE3F40B1 36800 12.30 17.00 33200 9.20 22200 1 HRCU-A-CB Yes 234 524

1384031 Active Systems XL15I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX5036A1 4TEE3F40B1 37400 12.70 15.00 36200 9.00 23400 1 HRCU-A-CB 269 673

The B1 XL16i condenser is being discontinued for the C1 XL16i. I assume this dealer's claim is based on the cooling/heating costs listed in the AHRI HP Directory. I do not believe these numbers. For my money,I would take the single stg XL15i HP all day long and keep in mind, you can't use a thermidistat like the HW VP IAQ for controlling humidity on the XL16i like you can on the XL15i. with the XL15i, you get about 3000 more heating BTUs at 47 degree.

"A trane guy came out and recomended replacing it but waiting to see what the Trane / Federal rebates would be in a month or so." I agree with that statement. I suspect the federal standard on a tax credit from the stimulus package will be very restrictive and eliminate all but the more expensive systems.

If a homeowner has to buy a high end HVAC system, this spring will be just about the best time as far as Mfg rebates, utility rebates, and possible federal gov't tax credits. Heck, Trane's HPs might not even qualify for the tax credit. Just have to wait and see.

IMO

tiger, gary...others...

So the 15i (rebate or not) should work for me and may be about the same price as I was paying for the 14i, 18 months ago...so....

1) The original guy who quotes us said he may have a few 14is left...he is not sure if there our our size or not. In the grand scheme of things, how much less efficient would the 14i be vs the 15i and is there a 'discount' amount where it becomes a no braininer to go with the left over 14i?

2) My better half noted that we still have a year before our electric rates jump 35% and we might be better off waiting....assuming the sucker lasted another year, maybe the 16i drops in price over a year....and we getan even more efficient unit...14' vs 15i vs 16i. Might it be worth the wait? The numbers suggest higher efficieny BUT I am asking now based on your experience, not the posted SEER, HSPF numbers since I get the impression that like the posted gas milage on cars, those numbers are not so accurate!

andre

I would not count on a quote you were given 18 mths ago for anything including HVAC to be honored as far as price. I would expect under normal economic times, an XL15i condenser would be not more than $500 compared to a similar sized XL14i. But it is clear the XL14i is being phased out and possibly you could get a deal since it is being discontinued plus overall business conditions in your area might be a factor. If you could save some bucks on the XL14i, then I see no reason not to. I am not a big proponent though of this strategy and as said previously, I would want to know about the expected federal tax credit from the stimulus package. But by waiting you might lose any chance on the XL14i. I would check with your dealer on what's available with the discontinued XL14i-R 410a refrigerant only. I would not take the R22 unless it is a steal. Update your pricing.

here are two configurations on the XL14i R-410a. The only negative is the poor heating BTUs. I doubt that either would qualify for a Trane rebate or fed tax credit. just speculation on my part though.

1104184 Discontinued Systems XL14I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX4036B1 4TEE3F39A1 36400 12.40 15.00 31800 9.00 19900 1 HRCU-A-CB 262 577

1106592 Discontinued Systems XL14I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX4036B1 4TEE3F40B1 36600 12.00 14.50 32600 8.55 20600 1 HRCU-A-CB 273 708

Regardless, I think it would be a mistake to wait.

IMO

ok, I think I will get a 15i requote and see what he says about the 14i's...he was not pushing them and also said since we are not having any problems to wait and see what the rebates will be.

i'm glad i read this post! i am trying to decide between the A/S Heritage 15 and the A/S Heritage 16. does anyone have the performance numbers of each, if different from the 15i and 16i above? 3000 btu's of additional heat on the 15i vs. the 16i is actually quite a bit!

i am pairing the heat pump with an A/S 2-stage, var speed gas funace (90, comfort R). Also, in the loop is an Aprilaire 5000 EAC, Carrier humidification unit (both of which are installed on the existing Rheem system I am replacing). For the new system, I have ordered a Honeywell VisionPro IAQ t-stat.

i really want to get the heat pump issue resolved. please weigh in on this one guys, b/c i am really have a tough time deciding between the single stage and two-stage HP.

thanks...

Mcq

post mdl number of furnace,evap coil, and size of the Heritage 15 and 16 you are considering. that makes a difference as far as the AHRI HP performance numbers. keep in mind the HP numbers are lower on dual fuel compared to an air handler.

IMO

Config is as follows:

Furnace: American Standard, AUY080R9V3W
Evap Coil: American Standard 3-ton w/ R-410A, 4TXCB036BC3HCA

with either of the follow HP's:

American Standard Heritage 15, 4A6H5036
American Standard Heritage 16, 4A6H6036

Many thanks.

AHRI doesn't rate with that furnace anymore. You'll need to have your dealer get you the specs directly from American Standard.

Furnace: AUX2B080AFV3VA

With that coil and furnace with

4A6H5036A1000A: 11.40 EER, 13.50 SEER, 8.30 HSPF

4A6H6036B1000A: 11.45 EER, 15.25 SEER, 8.50 HSPF

These are nominal figures. The actual figures for each system will very slightly. It's important to have a properly-sized ductwork system and properly-sized system for best efficiency and results.

One more note: I think that furnace has CleanEffects built in. Whether this will impact the specs above compared to the AUY080 furnace, I don't know, but I know it does change things slightly with Trane's air handlers with CleanEffects.

thank you. looks like the 15 is the way to go for me. you wouldn't happen to have the output figures as well, would you (for AC and HP opertion)? on the HP above freezing, i can see that i would be using very little gas, if any, at all. overall then, what benefit is the hvac industry selling when they recommend a 2-stage HP in the 15 to 16 SEER range? i just don't get it.

The Heritage 15, with that furnace and coil, puts out 34,600 btu's of cooling and 37,000 btu's of heating. The Heritage 16, with that furnace and coil, puts out 33,800 btu's of cooling and 29,200 btu's of heating (undesirable).

thanks ryan. ok, here's a curve ball. would you even consider recommending a goodman heat pump? also, what about a carrier infinity heat pump? i am really overwhelmed with the choices. i have read the good and bad reviews from consumers on all 3. here is what my setup thoughts were as of this morning:

Have:
Furnace: American Standard, AUY080R9V3W, 48000/73000 2-stage w/ Comfort-R, 93% eff.
Air Cleaner: AprilAire 5000, Electronic Air Cleaner
Humidifier: Carrier 49BG013210
UV Purifier: Blue Ray UV-C Germicidal 120w (2x60w)
Thermostat: Honeywell VisionPro IAQ w/ Outdoor Temp Sensor, YTH9421C1002 (up to 4 heat/ 2 cool)

Need:
Evap Coil: American Standard 3-ton w/ R-410A, 4TXCB036BC3HCA

with either of the follow HP's:

American Standard Heritage 15, 4A6H5036
American Standard Heritage 16, 4A6H6036
**********************************************
so, basically what i am saying is that i want the best bang for my $'s, but don't want to sacrifice quality. just don't know where to go from here.

j

Quite the system you have there already. I'd just match it up with the American Standard Heritage 15 heat pump and call it complete. You won't know the exact ratings, though they should be very similar to above, but you'll know you have a quality system if installed properly.

I wouldn't consider a Goodman heat pump based on what I've seen in many cases, but there are happy Goodman owners, including Gary_G on these forums. They can be good units, but I think they're directed toward lower budget applications (they are) and hence tend to be more cheaply built. That's all I'll say about Goodman. I could write an article. I wouldn't consider an Infinity heat pump unless part of a complete Infinity system. And to be honest I'm not the biggest Carrier fan either. I get the feeling they're riding off their reputation for the most part. Many brands are. If it were my house, currently I'd install a Lennox or a Trane (or in this case American Standard). If I were in your situation in particular, I'd choose the American Standard.

thank you again, ryan! i am going to go with the Heritage 15 w/ a matching coil. i have got to be done with this.

as a sidebar, i absolutely cannot believe how easy it is to breathe properly humidified pure air. we have no dust in our home at all. the aprilaire 5000 electronic air cleaner in tandem with the UV is simply amazing. in the middle of winter, the air inside of our home is forest fresh.

j

also ryan, can you or anyone tell me where i could purchase a heritage 15 hp and have it freighted in?

That would be hard to find since most distributors are unable to sell to the general public, only licensed professionals.